F1 2024 Season

[Super]

4 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

Unless we're looking at a different BBC report, I counted six separate mentions for Norris.

Some people just like a moan.

[Markthehorn]

There was an article by the BBC F1 reporter 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68649296
 

And the main race report .

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/68649128

 

[slartibartfast]

9 hours ago, Super said:

Some people just like a moan.

With good ****** reason !

[Dollymarie]

Recorded the race, had the result spoilt by accidentally looking at bbc sport, watched the crash, then deleted the recording 

[phantom]

3 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

Recorded the race, had the result spoilt by accidentally looking at bbc sport, watched the crash, then deleted the recording 

Similar to me, apart I'd not heard about a crash 

I'd better undelete it 

[East Londoner]

5 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

Recorded the race, had the result spoilt by accidentally looking at bbc sport, watched the crash, then deleted the recording 

Tbf you didn’t miss much, not saying it was boring but i did two weeks worth of ironing while it was on 

[Dollymarie]

4 hours ago, East Londoner said:

Tbf you didn’t miss much, not saying it was boring but i did two weeks worth of ironing while it was on 

I’m genuinely sad that it’s become so dull and predictable, as well as a a tad too “safe”

[East Londoner]

28 minutes ago, Dollymarie said:

I’m genuinely sad that it’s become so dull and predictable, as well as a a tad too “safe”

We’ve had these boring and predictable eras before with the Schumacher years and many would argue the Hamilton years despite him having more competition 

It won’t last forever 

[Dollymarie]

1 hour ago, East Londoner said:

We’ve had these boring and predictable eras before with the Schumacher years and many would argue the Hamilton years despite him having more competition 

It won’t last forever 

We can but hope! It’s just too sanitised these days. I don’t know how much longer people like Brundle will keep on hanging in there. Even he seems bored commentating these days!

[Maesknoll Red]

12 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

We can but hope! It’s just too sanitised these days. I don’t know how much longer people like Brundle will keep on hanging in there. Even he seems bored commentating these days!

We obviously watch in a different way.  I’m pleased that reliability has massively improved for all teams, I want to see 20 cars finishing.  Likewise with accidents, don’t want to see any driver injured (or worse), in this cost cap era, car damage several times a season will hit the development budgets.

Yes, at the moment RB are dominant, for some of us it was just the same when Hamilton and Mercedes had the hybrid sussed from the start and dominated for several years.  Only one real spell of fight then and that was Hamilton -Rosberg, Bottas was much more Hamilton’s Perez.

There are plenty of other classes of racing if you want to see the drivers in the same car, F1 always has been about teams developing the best car, finding ways to develop improvements and real innovation, match that with the best driver and you have your world champion.  No matter your opinion of Verstappen, he really is a top driver, rarely makes mistakes and in totally in the zone.  His dominance is a combination of his car and this probably being his time as the best driver in the world, that will change, other greats have lean spells, that’s if he stays around long enough, he has intimated he’ll finish with F1 in 2028.

Strategy, I spend a lot of time analysing data at work , what these guys (and gals) do in real time to predict outcomes and change strategy is outstanding, this aspect of F1 is fascinating (to me and many others).

As for the future, a change will come, 2026 when RB change engine supplier, when the car design changes, we might see another spell of dominance from another team, or if Adrian Newey is still with RB then, maybe it could be them - he is the F1 aerodynamic master and really understands these ground effect cars.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

We obviously watch in a different way.  I’m pleased that reliability has massively improved for all teams, I want to see 20 cars finishing.  Likewise with accidents, don’t want to see any driver injured (or worse), in this cost cap era, car damage several times a season will hit the development budgets.

I agree about more cars finishing is good, but the problem is these cars are just not competitive, even the qualifying is almost the same drivers missing out at the end of each qualifying zone now

The eras you mention above were a bit more interesting because cars were not as reliable and pit stops played a bigger part

It is just a procession now as Max and RB are so far ahead of the others

Of course nobody wants to see anyone hurt, but a safety car / VSC sometimes shakes things up

The only thing of interest that can happen in a race nowadays is when it rains suddenly

[Maesknoll Red]

Its not changed much in the last 15 years, a couple of seasons where the figures make it look more interesting, but some of that was just down to circumstance (crashes / reliability, rather than driver ability or car improvements).

Simple stats:

Year / Different drivers winning / Different teams winning

2010 / 5 / 3

2011 / 5 / 3

2012 / 8 / 5

2013 / 5 / 4

2014 / 3 / 2

2015 / 3 / 2

2016 / 4 / 2

2017 / 5 / 3

2018 / 6 / 3

2019 / 5 / 3

2020 / 5 / 4

2021 / 6 / 4

2022 / 6 / 3

2023 / 3 / 2

20204 / 2 / 2 - So far.

 

Which just goes to show, the last couple of seasons are producing - stats wise - the same results as 2014 /15 and not hugely dissimilar to many other years.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Its not changed much in the last 15 years, a couple of seasons where the figures make it look more interesting, but some of that was just down to circumstance (crashes / reliability, rather than driver ability or car improvements).

Simple stats:

Year / Different drivers winning / Different teams winning

2010 / 5 / 3

2011 / 5 / 3

2012 / 8 / 5

2013 / 5 / 4

2014 / 3 / 2

2015 / 3 / 2

2016 / 4 / 2

2017 / 5 / 3

2018 / 6 / 3

2019 / 5 / 3

2020 / 5 / 4

2021 / 6 / 4

2022 / 6 / 3

2023 / 3 / 2

20204 / 2 / 2 - So far.

 

Which just goes to show, the last couple of seasons are producing - stats wise - the same results as 2014 /15 and not hugely dissimilar to many other years.

Out of interest do you know the number of races in each season?

[Maesknoll Red]

14 minutes ago, phantom said:

Out of interest do you know the number of races in each season?

 

Yes below.

It's worth adding in that time (since 2010) only two teams have supplied the world champion, Mercedes and Red Bull

 

 

2010 - 19

2011 - 19

2012 - 20

2013 - 19

2014 - 19

2015 - 19

 2016 - 21 

2017 - 20

2018 - 21 

2019 - 21

2020 - 21 

2021 - 17

2022 - 22

2023 - 22

2024 - 24 planned.

[Maesknoll Red]

Since 1980, there have only been 9 constructors having a world champion.

Most consecutive titles in that period - Mercedes 7 - 2014 - 2020 - Total domination

Second in the consecutive titles during that time, Ferrari - 5 - 2000 - 2004

Number of individual world champions by constructor since 1980:

McLaren - 11

Mercedes - 7

Red Bull - 7

Williams - 7

Ferrari - 6

Renault - 2

Brabham - 2

Benetton - 2

Brawn - 1

 

Constructor titles in that timespan.

Most consecutive Mercedes - 8 - 2014 2021

Ferrari - 11

Williams - 10

Mercedes - 8

McLaren - 7

Red Bull - 6

Renault - 2

Benetton - 1

Brawn - 1

 

F1 has always been dominated by certain teams / drivers.

 

 

 

[spudski]

I think F1 has lost its way a little.

It's now more a show of glamour and wealth.

Bigger restrictions need to be made on cars development and budget more limited.

Cars made smaller and lighter. 

More reliance on driver ability needed. 

It's no coincidence that most drivers quote their karting days as their best days. 

My hope for this season is that Lando gets a win. RB go backwards. McLaren and Ferrari make gains on them. Mercedes improve to make it a four team possibility. 

And it'll never happen...but Carlos to come back to McLaren and partner Lando again next season. 

Oh...and Riccardo to retire. Loathe him.

[nebristolred]

20 hours ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Its not changed much in the last 15 years, a couple of seasons where the figures make it look more interesting, but some of that was just down to circumstance (crashes / reliability, rather than driver ability or car improvements).

Simple stats:

Year / Different drivers winning / Different teams winning

2010 / 5 / 3

2011 / 5 / 3

2012 / 8 / 5

2013 / 5 / 4

2014 / 3 / 2

2015 / 3 / 2

2016 / 4 / 2

2017 / 5 / 3

2018 / 6 / 3

2019 / 5 / 3

2020 / 5 / 4

2021 / 6 / 4

2022 / 6 / 3

2023 / 3 / 2

20204 / 2 / 2 - So far.

 

Which just goes to show, the last couple of seasons are producing - stats wise - the same results as 2014 /15 and not hugely dissimilar to many other years.

I think I've said it before, but I think the lack of competition at the front is the biggest issue here. Though not perfect by any means, at least in the Hamilton years you had his battle with Rosberg. During the Vettel years the rivalry with Webber was great. There were actually some title deciders at the end of the year.

At the moment there is just... nothing. And it's partially because Max is so good, partially because we have new rules that completely play into the hands of Newey (who is already the best designer in F1), and partially because Red Bull are and always have been pretty much a one-car team. That means the fastest team is miles ahead, and within that team there is little chance of any title battle.

Throw in the new budget cap meaning it's very hard for teams to catch up within a rules period and it's basically a recipe for having near enough the same sequence of cars in order from 2021 to 2025. Which is absolute crap.

While the budget cap is well intentioned, it's causing damage here and I'm not sure it's possible to rectify it before 2026. Liberty adding more and more races also makes year-end title deciders mathematically less likely. It's just all a bit stale nowadays.

Edited April 9 by nebristolred

[spudski]

1 hour ago, nebristolred said:

I think I've said it before, but I think the lack of competition at the front is the biggest issue here. Though not perfect by any means, at least in the Hamilton years you had his battle with Rosberg. During the Vettel years the rivalry with Webber was great. There were actually some title deciders at the end of the year.

At the moment there is just... nothing. And it's partially because Max is so good, partially because we have new rules that completely play into the hands of Newey (who is already the best designer in F1), and partially because Red Bull are and always have been pretty much a one-car team. That means the fastest team is miles ahead, and within that team there is little chance of any title battle.

Throw in the new budget cap meaning it's very hard for teams to catch up within a rules period and it's basically a recipe for having near enough the same sequence of cars in order from 2021 to 2025. Which is absolute crap.

While the budget cap is well intentioned, it's causing damage here and I'm not sure it's possible to rectify it before 2026. Liberty adding more and more races also makes year-end title deciders mathematically less likely. It's just all a bit stale nowadays.

Lot to be said in that. 

Look at the state of Williams now

[Maesknoll Red]

11 hours ago, nebristolred said:

I think I've said it before, but I think the lack of competition at the front is the biggest issue here. Though not perfect by any means, at least in the Hamilton years you had his battle with Rosberg. During the Vettel years the rivalry with Webber was great. There were actually some title deciders at the end of the year.

At the moment there is just... nothing. And it's partially because Max is so good, partially because we have new rules that completely play into the hands of Newey (who is already the best designer in F1), and partially because Red Bull are and always have been pretty much a one-car team. That means the fastest team is miles ahead, and within that team there is little chance of any title battle.

Throw in the new budget cap meaning it's very hard for teams to catch up within a rules period and it's basically a recipe for having near enough the same sequence of cars in order from 2021 to 2025. Which is absolute crap.

While the budget cap is well intentioned, it's causing damage here and I'm not sure it's possible to rectify it before 2026. Liberty adding more and more races also makes year-end title deciders mathematically less likely. It's just all a bit stale nowadays.

Lots to agree with here, but 8 straight years of Mercedes winning the constructors, with 7 individual championships (only 1 year really competitive, Bottas never was) was dominance on almost the same scale, the extra race winners were usually down to mechanical failure, or driver error like Spain 2017 when Rosberg and Hamilton collided and gave Verstappen his first win.

The change in rules in 2022 created the perfect storm, it put the technical rules of the car aerodynamics straight into the lap of the best F1 car aerodynamic engineer there has ever been, Red Bull and Honda had improved performance and reliability to an outstanding level and like him or not, Verstappen is one of the greatest drivers and he sits in that car.   
 

Verstappen and his father probably have a lot of sway within the team, probably too much and between them and the RB senior management, they don’t want two No1 drivers, not ideal for racing, but that is their prerogative, at least you rarely see team orders in RB, whilst it happens still in all the other teams.

The budget cap - does it really help the bottom 5 teams, they are still the bottom 5, but as you say, it’s hampering development in the top 5 teams.  
 

I suspect for real change we’ll be waiting until 2026, it will be interesting to see if Hamilton still has what it takes when he sits in an improving Ferrari next year.  The other moves will be interesting, where does Sainz end up, I think RB unlikely, he had run ins with Verstappen as a team mate before, Alonso wants to stay and there are half a dozen good youngsters in the driver programmes/F2.

This last race could have been closer, if Sainz hadn’t been held up for so long behind Norris at the start, if others had kept 2 mediums and 1 hard (as Verstappen did) rather than 2 hards and 1 medium, what if Leclerc had a two stopper, the new tyre difference at the circuit was huge, hence why there was so much overtaking.

There’s plenty going on behind Verstappen, plenty of interest there, Aston Martin had the biggest improvement in last years qualifying time of all the teams, Alonso is showing his class in a car that looked competitive a couple of years back, but has stumbled in development, what are Mercedes struggling so much, they say they have the aerodynamics right now, but still lose track time and feel they can’t load up the rear tyres.  All fascinating stuff in the technical, strategic, political and driver capability world of F1.

 

 

[nebristolred]

27 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Lots to agree with here, but 8 straight years of Mercedes winning the constructors, with 7 individual championships (only 1 year really competitive, Bottas never was) was dominance on almost the same scale, the extra race winners were usually down to mechanical failure, or driver error like Spain 2017 when Rosberg and Hamilton collided and gave Verstappen his first win.

 

Yeah absolutely. As much as I say the current domination is worse (in my opinion of course), it's just a different level of the same shit. Even if the Merc years were 'better' on account of two teammates being able to fight it out, the problem is still there. The sport as a whole is just miles away from where it could/should be competitively.

2026 could genuinely be pretty exciting, and it's almost impossible to predict which team will come out on top at this stage. Here's hoping the regulation period as a whole has a few twists and turns though - a shake-up in 2026 is only useful if it doesn't remain the same throughout the whole regulation period.

[transfer reader]

On 08/04/2024 at 11:28, phantom said:

I agree about more cars finishing is good, but the problem is these cars are just not competitive, even the qualifying is almost the same drivers missing out at the end of each qualifying zone now

The eras you mention above were a bit more interesting because cars were not as reliable and pit stops played a bigger part

It is just a procession now as Max and RB are so far ahead of the others

Of course nobody wants to see anyone hurt, but a safety car / VSC sometimes shakes things up

The only thing of interest that can happen in a race nowadays is when it rains suddenly

If they decide a light shower isn't quite worthy of red flagging it.

[Dollymarie]

Wow! 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cmm3v9ny78eo

[Markthehorn]

5 hours ago, Dollymarie said:

Wow! 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cmm3v9ny78eo

All the teams will be scrambling around for his signature.