Watford at home match thread

[mozo]

9 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Ahhh the classic Pearson vs Manning comment. Is that also taking into account how I’ve said Manning is one of the best young coaches in England, and that he will manage in the Prem one day? Sorry mate, you’ve lost me there after that

 

Fair enough, must be something else that turned you into a right whinger then 

[Northern Red]

7 minutes ago, johnheadbcfc said:

Oh bore off.

[Robbored]

13 minutes ago, mozo said:

I guess we just saw it differently then. I thought Watford were really in our faces first half, and we in theirs second half. Neither team looked bad, neither had star quality. Fair result.

Absolutely how I saw it to.. Neither team deserved to win.

Fwiw I thought it was a cracking game, both teams going for it with the midfield producing some hectic hurly burly play. I really liked it and it was good advertisement of Championship football.

[petehinton]

7 minutes ago, mozo said:

Fair enough, must be something else that turned you into a right whinger then 

Yeah, watching us create nothing at home and needing pens to win them!

The odd away game in amongst them, we’ve been great. 

Get a pre season in them and go again, I guess.  That’s not whinging, that’s just fact in my eyes. 

[Jerseybean]

31 minutes ago, winterbournered said:

Decent game. 
Even first half. 
Thought we looked better second, although Watford looked dangerous on the counter at times. 
We had the best chance of the second half with Knights header. 
Draw probably fair! 

Yep that’s how I saw it. We looked more likely to win it in the second half but overall two well matched teams and a draw was a reasonable outcome.

As always I was frustrated +++++ by our shocking throw ins, hopefully LM can address this weakness.

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Yeah, watching us create nothing at home and needing pens to win them!

The odd away game in amongst them, we’ve been great. 

Get a pre season in them and go again, I guess.  That’s not whinging, that’s just fact in my eyes. 

I totally agree that City struggle to carve out chances. Been the same for such a long time now. But today wasn't the worst example of this. I say that because there were 5 very good headed chances of which one went in. That's better than average, surely?

[BasSavage88]

I thought today's game was fun,  was surprised about the negativity until I saw the posters. 

[1960maaan]

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I didn’t think we deserved to lose / got out of jail, or anything like that…draw a fair result.  Just thought we could’ve been better.

I thought it was a strange game in as much I was disappointed we didn't win, but I thought they carried a real threat running with the ball. It was fairly even though they pressed us and pressed us back well. 
Not sure how the late header stayed out , Twine should have done better with the first chance and Max did well with their best chance. I just didn't feel we put them under enough pressure. 

Not sure how the Ref let them keep fouling without bringing out the Cards more, specially after it looked like he was going to be strict after the early booking. 
We need to create more chances though.

[Super]

36 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

I got frustrated with Dickie attempting to play Stevie G balls across the field. But I think credit goes to Watford for that.

They pressed us well.

The passing from all 3 cb's was poor.

[ExiledAjax]

39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought we played differently today than pretty much any other Manning game.  I thought if anything, we tried to force stuff which wasn’t on. We found a bit of joy with Knight down the right channel second half.  I don’t think we ever got to grips with Kone and Dele, an in turn I think Williams and James were frightened of getting tight, in case they got rolled (which Kone set the tone for twice in the opening 5 mins).

It’s ok, it’s a point.  I just feel I’ve watched something from City that was a bit “meh” today.  Excitement for me came from set-pieces which isn’t what I expect per se.

I said on the Twine thread that I thought he was trying stuff that either others weren't reading or where he wasn't quite pulling it off. I liked us trying things even if they weren't necessarily coming off.

Whatever we did, it still delivered effective output. 15 shots, 6 on target, decent chances with early xG of about 1.5. If it was set pieces today, set pieces that were dangerous because we were doing stuff in their third of the pitch, then I'm ok with that.

Watford weren't running riot either. Take the penalty out of it and they had one shot on target and 0.5 xG.

It wasn't pretty, and maybe not everyone found it to be scintillating entertainment, but it was largely effective and on another day I think 3 points were there for us.

[Robbored]

2 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Yep that’s how I saw it. We looked more likely to win it in the second half but overall two well matched teams and a draw was a reasonable outcome.

As always I was frustrated +++++ by our shocking throw ins, hopefully LM can address this weakness.

Throw ins aren’t simple with the opposition denying options which is why we often see the taker getting the ball straight back after finding a teammate who’s found a limited space.

Thats why having a player who can actually throw it further is a helpful asset - it gives the team better options.

[ChrisJ]

47 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

If Conway was playing for Preston or Millwall or similar, with the same record, half the people moaning about him would be wanting us to sign him and asking why we can't develop a striker like that.

Yes yes yes. We don’t have the divine right to beat anyone and we are producing good young talent give manning time and we will see what happens. Twine makes a difference.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

I said on the Twine thread that I thought he was trying stuff that either others weren't reading or where he wasn't quite pulling it off. I liked us trying things even if they weren't necessarily coming off.

Whatever we did, it still delivered effective output. 15 shots, 6 on target, decent chances with early xG of about 1.5. If it was set pieces today, set pieces that were dangerous because we were doing stuff in their third of the pitch, then I'm ok with that.

Watford weren't running riot either. Take the penalty out of it and they had one shot on target and 0.5 xG.

It wasn't pretty, and maybe not everyone found it to be scintillating entertainment, but it was largely effective and on another day I think 3 points were there for us.

Yeah, wasn’t just Twine though, Dickie was in Hoddle-mode today.

I’m not surprised output was as you suggest, although slight caveat that some of that came in multi-shot passages.  I’m not complaining though.

It was a funny game.  South Stand got their second half action I guess.

[ChrisJ]

When we play a team like what Watford we will win some lose some and draw some, they are a bigger team than us and explensive squad, we are what we are a midtable champ side , a few signings and manning hopefully coaching players well can help us touch wood.

[Bodiesaffer]

Thought we lacked vision today.  Unlucky not to pick up the 3 points at the end.  Draw fair TBH.

[Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..]

1 hour ago, 1team said:

Sorry another bore fest for me.

Really couldn't disagree more.

The contrast between this performance and the Millwall game was stark

Against Millwall, we were passive, happy to retain possession and offered little threat

I liked everything about today's game, and especially the second half, other than the fact that we didn't win. We had 3 free headers in front of the South stand, one of which should have gone in

Today, we had an aggressive midfield, runners, many forward passes and, the thing I really liked was the hunting in packs. 

We pressed intensely at times and forced errors from Watford and, when we've got a bit more practice at it, teams will struggle to get out

Watford played their part to be fair and I just thought it was a cracking game of football all round

Kudos to Liam Manning for the turnaround and I think with another signing or 2, we will only get better. I like the shape this team us evolving into. Tommy will come into his element when we get there....

Edited January 20 by Scrumpys Dietary Advisor..

[Dr Balls]

I thought that today exposed some weaknesses without us being punished for them. Case in point - Vyner and Tanner are both decent defensively at this level, but they offer nothing other than that. Poor passing, no forward commitment, and certainly not players who are going to get us to the playoffs or beyond. Championship is the highest level that they are going to achieve. And they have are fine if survival at this level is all that the owners are willing to finance but they aren’t going to take us any further than Championship mid table mediocrity. We have had better in the recent past but those players cost more in both fees and wages.

[Lew-T]

17 minutes ago, Super said:

The passing from all 3 cb's was poor.

The passing was below par from everybody today. But yes, I think back there especially it was poor.

Gave away unnecessary balls. I don’t think the subs made any difference today either which disappointed me.

[Jose]

Just now, Lew-T said:

The passing was below par from everybody today. But yes, I think back there especially it was poor.

Gave away unnecessary balls. I don’t think the subs made any difference today either which disappointed me.

I’d really like Manning to actually change shape when making subs. It is just like for like. A bit safe. 

[REDOXO]

25 minutes ago, Jerseybean said:

Yep that’s how I saw it. We looked more likely to win it in the second half but overall two well matched teams and a draw was a reasonable outcome.

As always I was frustrated +++++ by our shocking throw ins, hopefully LM can address this weakness.

I cringe most games over our throw ins. Shocking is not an understatement! 
 

The obvious out come for me, other than the result, is that we are bound to receive enquiries/offersfor Pring either in this transfer window or the summer. 

[petehinton]

22 minutes ago, mozo said:

I totally agree that City struggle to carve out chances. Been the same for such a long time now. But today wasn't the worst example of this. I say that because there were 5 very good headed chances of which one went in. That's better than average, surely?

Scramble from one from a corner, half decent save from Dickie header from another. That felt like all she wrote for us second half.  
 

Thats not a dig one way or another. Manning’s style is very different so will need more time and a pre season. Dare I even say “needs 3 windows”. 
 

The poorest home game this season, it was not. Much better than Preston &Millwall? Again, probably not. 
 

As with most home games this season, we Need to find a way to get the central striker(s) far more involved. Whether that is having more time with Twine and another new signing in the 10 role i guess time will tell. 
 

Just personally (and I get everyone is different with the football they enjoy watching) finding it quite a painful watch each week until we do finally ‘figure it out’ whilst we’re in transition.  Again. 

[JP Hampton]

17 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I said on the Twine thread that I thought he was trying stuff that either others weren't reading or where he wasn't quite pulling it off. I liked us trying things even if they weren't necessarily coming off.

Whatever we did, it still delivered effective output. 15 shots, 6 on target.

Yes I agree, I believe this isn’t just about Twine settling in to his role but actually others getting used to his style of play. I can see him causing an up shift in some of our players once, they’ve got used to factoring him into our play. 
 I think some of those shots and those on target will have come from Twine, given it’s an area we’ve not been strong on. 

[italian dave]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Id say the wage commitment is out of what they have brought in. 

Its a bit like us after we sold Webster etc. 

If they don't get themselves promoted or don't sell more players further down the line then they'll be in the same mess as we were. 

Agree. And, as we found out, just because you’ve done it once, twice, three times, doesn’t always mean there’s a fourth player there to be sold for big money, 

[Silvio Dante]

For me, it was a bit different from “normal” Manning ball in that I don’t think it was passive. We were trying to get a bit further forward but I think we lacked two main things - pace and quality.

You’ll hear a lot about the 15 shots in the box, but it is clear that those weren’t created from open play - they were from excellent set piece delivery. And to be clear, those are equally as valid chances but are also a bit easier over long term to counter - you set, you know it’s coming. It’s a fantastic weapon but it can’t be the only weapon as it was today - and that may change as Twine beds in.

I do think that Knight had a quieter game and wonder if Twine/the formation took something away from him. As I said in the Twine thread, I thought he was ineffective in open play but am putting that down to “wavelength”.

I said before the game that it was an interesting game because of the Boxing Day result. I do think Watford played a bit differently but we looked nowhere near as incisive when we did have the ball.

It wasn’t a bad performance. But it was a game that won’t live long in the memory and does mean 2 points in 4 games. All in all, a bit of an underwhelming afternoon but with the definite plus point of effective set pieces.

 

[mozo]

5 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Scramble from one from a corner, half decent save from Dickie header from another. That felt like all she wrote for us second half.  
 

Thats not a dig one way or another. Manning’s style is very different so will need more time and a pre season. Dare I even say “needs 3 windows”. 
 

The poorest home game this season, it was not. Much better than Preston &Millwall? Again, probably not. 
 

As with most home games this season, we Need to find a way to get the central striker(s) far more involved. Whether that is having more time with Twine and another new signing in the 10 role i guess time will tell. 
 

Just personally (and I get everyone is different with the football they enjoy watching) finding it quite a painful watch each week until we do finally ‘figure it out’ whilst we’re in transition.  Again. 

Totally fair explanation, we just must have different eyeballs 

[italian dave]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

For me, it was a bit different from “normal” Manning ball in that I don’t think it was passive. We were trying to get a bit further forward but I think we lacked two main things - pace and quality.

You’ll hear a lot about the 15 shots in the box, but it is clear that those weren’t created from open play - they were from excellent set piece delivery. And to be clear, those are equally as valid chances but are also a bit easier over long term to counter - you set, you know it’s coming. It’s a fantastic weapon but it can’t be the only weapon as it was today - and that may change as Twine beds in.

I do think that Knight had a quieter game and wonder if Twine/the formation took something away from him. As I said in the Twine thread, I thought he was ineffective in open play but am putting that down to “wavelength”.

I said before the game that it was an interesting game because of the Boxing Day result. I do think Watford played a bit differently but we looked nowhere near as incisive when we did have the ball.

It wasn’t a bad performance. But it was a game that won’t live long in the memory and does mean 2 points in 4 games. All in all, a bit of an underwhelming afternoon but with the definite plus point of effective set pieces.

 

Interesting point about Knight.

He seems to have been struggling for a week or so - illness?

And he was certainly in a different role today with Twine in there too.

I guess time will tell which had the impact. And hopefully that both can be overcome.

I was quite surprised to see him starting today. 

[E.G.Red]

30 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Throw ins aren’t simple with the opposition denying options which is why we often see the taker getting the ball straight back after finding a teammate who’s found a limited space.

Thats why having a player who can actually throw it further is a helpful asset - it gives the team better options.

That's why I would have bought Harry Cornick on 

[Robbored]

1 minute ago, E.G.Red said:

That's why I would have bought Harry Cornick on 

We all thought that on 60mins when the changes were made. We were expecting Cornick to make an appearance but it obviously didn’t happen.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Interesting point about Knight.

He seems to have been struggling for a week or so - illness?

And he was certainly in a different role today with Twine in there too.

I guess time will tell which had the impact. And hopefully that both can be overcome.

I was quite surprised to see him starting today. 

It seemed to me that he was a bit more passive in his press (noting the team were less passive). Prior to this, under LM, he’s been the forward midfielder and pressing along the backline. Today, it seemed to me he was given a “lane” and largely stayed in it, and looked a bit more uncertain when to go or stay. As you say, may sort itself over time but definitely less effective than the player we’ve seen

[nickolas]

5 minutes ago, Robbored said:

We all thought that on 60mins when the changes were made. We were expecting Cornick to make an appearance but it obviously didn’t happen.

The raffle tombola wasnt open today for him to get on.