Southampton to move away fans

[Lakeside Red]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/25385136/premier-league-stadium-southampton-championship-russell-martin/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballfacebook160124&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3sk1RDiwGSmBtPhW1vzeOeTwhnSSJ3kJMJmVv0lRiNlI1ElaBL8VezmVE_aem_Abcvf8uHEXuT8oy9RkO6HDYDmFKF0kD0m9BCBQPvhorxfsu9DJHUUYP7D9dF62X52nE#Echobox=1705435993

[1960maaan]

To save giving that ******* rag any more clicks that necessary, here's the story. The one thing about a 'Bowl' , and I seem to remember no one wanted one for us, is it's easier to move fans.

SOUTHAMPTON are redeveloping St Mary's to try to create a more intimidating atmosphere for visiting teams.
Saints have confirmed that the away section at their 32,000-capacity ground is being moved to allow more home fans to sit in the noisy Northam Stand behind one of the goals, creating a "red-and-white wall".

1

Southampton are redeveloping St Mary's to create an intimidating atmosphere for visiting teams

Supporters have long complained that the current layout of St Mary's - where the club moved from The Dell in 2001 - hands away teams a boost by separating the loudest home supporters.
Russell Martin's side have won their last nine games at home but Southampton's poor Premier League form in recent years had resulted in a flat and, at times, toxic atmosphere.
The Championship outfit won just two of their 19 Prem home games last term as they finished bottom.
The club are now consulting fans as to how best to re-work the stadium and will also introduce safe standing rails to the Northam
Saints CEO Phil Parsons said: “We’ve been listening to fan feedback and we know moving the away end, to create a full home end in the Northam, is something a lot of our fans have been wanting for a long time.”Mike Sadler, from the club's Fan Advisory Board, added: “For many years, Saints fans have said that having the Northam End split between home and away fans has reduced the atmosphere and helped away teams.
"The Fan Advisory Board represents fans and support the club in their decision to create a full Northam end.
“We think this will greatly improve the atmosphere, and really help the team."

[Mallorcan Red]

I have often thought that getting the Atyeo back for home fans would be great, and allowing a thin strip at the end of either the Dolman or up in the gods of the Lansdown for away fans would work best. But now with the open concourse under 3 sides of the ground, I guess that cannot work.

[1960maaan]

10 minutes ago, Mallorcan Red said:

I have often thought that getting the Atyeo back for home fans would be great, and allowing a thin strip at the end of either the Dolman or up in the gods of the Lansdown for away fans would work best. But now with the open concourse under 3 sides of the ground, I guess that cannot work.

I've thought about that, I think it could possibly work if they really want it too.
Separate the concourse with a semi permanent wall , have movable segregation top to bottom in the Dolman and have the turnstyles "away fans only" . Obviously there would be more to it than that , but if Steve and Jon were convinced and maybe wanted to redo the Atyeo , they could make it work. 

Not sure the upgrade to the Atyeo would be financially worth the cost. 

[frenchred]

Unfortunately they have a CEO and have said they listen to fans .........................

[phantom]

25 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Unfortunately they have a CEO and have said they listen to fans .........................

Having a bowl makes it so much easier tho

As already mentioned there are discussions (but at a very early stage) about the expansion of S82 / safe standing etc happening

The SC&T are having our monthly meeting with the club next week, where it is an agenda item

[pongo88]

With the configuration of the stands, concourses, entrances, visibility problems for sitting supporters etc at Ashton Gate not much, if anything, is going to happen. A rebuilt Atyeo, after the purchase of the houses behind, would work but that’s not going to happen any time soon, if at all

[RedLionLad]

7 minutes ago, phantom said:

Having a bowl makes it so much easier tho

It’s great for meeting mates before and after the game who sit in different stands and of course, having away fans in a separate stand makes it easier for ticketing, segregation and safety issues.

I can’t see the club ever changing that arrangement.

[Robbored]

I didn’t realise the Sun was still in print………….

[RedLionLad]

7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I didn’t realise the Sun was still in print………….

Haven’t you heard? 

[adamski]

I think the reason that end is noisy is probably because it's next to the away fans...the move could shoot them in the foot. 

[PhilC]

29 minutes ago, Robbored said:

I didn’t realise the Sun was still in print………….

It's on the official site too....

[Wedontplayinblue]

55 minutes ago, phantom said:

Having a bowl makes it so much easier tho

As already mentioned there are discussions (but at a very early stage) about the expansion of S82 / safe standing etc happening

The SC&T are having our monthly meeting with the club next week, where it is an agenda item

The problem is phantom, it’s ok discussing it but what are the genuine options open?

Back 10 rows of the south stand? That’s the only thing I think is logically possibly, but I don’t think that would be any improvement and then you’re risking pissing off fans who have sat there for years. 
 

The club never had a plan for where “vocal” fans should have gone from the start of redoing Ashton gate. 

[Port Said Red]

47 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

With the configuration of the stands, concourses, entrances, visibility problems for sitting supporters etc at Ashton Gate not much, if anything, is going to happen. A rebuilt Atyeo, after the purchase of the houses behind, would work but that’s not going to happen any time soon, if at all

Do people still believe this is a thing?

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Mallorcan Red said:

I have often thought that getting the Atyeo back for home fans would be great, and allowing a thin strip at the end of either the Dolman or up in the gods of the Lansdown for away fans would work best. But now with the open concourse under 3 sides of the ground, I guess that cannot work.

 

1 hour ago, 1960maaan said:

I've thought about that, I think it could possibly work if they really want it too.
Separate the concourse with a semi permanent wall , have movable segregation top to bottom in the Dolman and have the turnstyles "away fans only" . Obviously there would be more to it than that , but if Steve and Jon were convinced and maybe wanted to redo the Atyeo , they could make it work. 

Not sure the upgrade to the Atyeo would be financially worth the cost. 

Just to reiterate what I have before but the minimum allocation rules need factoring in and b) Eleemnt if future proofing too. Last time I looked..

A) 2k or 10% of capacity minimum to visiting sides, whichever is the lower.

B) If we ever get promoted that becomes 3k or 10%, again pick the lowest.

C) FA Cup, up to 15% or near as dammit seems to be the benchmark.

[Barrs Court Red]

2 minutes ago, Wedontplayinblue said:

 

Back 10 rows of the south stand? That’s the only thing I think is logically possibly, but I don’t think that would be any improvement and then you’re risking pissing off fans who have sat there for years. 
 

What can they moan about? That is what was in the original plan, likewise the Dolman lower. 

[Wedontplayinblue]

2 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

What can they moan about? That is what was in the original plan, likewise the Dolman lower. 

As they have never been told that’s the plan though really and they have been sat there for years. 

It’s good being open to suggestions but what could those suggestions be? There isn’t anywhere possible for it to be expanded to. 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

SL pay very close attention 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I agree the Status Quo isn't fit for purpose..our fans should be rocking all over the ground.

However we need to consider. Where do we put:

A) 2k away fans. Upper Lansdown? 1/3 of the Dolman?

3) 2.7k or 2.6k if we get promoted would require some shifting about.

C) Invariably clubs will want as close to 15% as possible in the Cup.

Can anyone square that circle with a move? Let alone segregation issues etc.

Edited January 19 by Mr Popodopolous

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

2 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

I've thought about that, I think it could possibly work if they really want it too.
Separate the concourse with a semi permanent wall , have movable segregation top to bottom in the Dolman and have the turnstyles "away fans only" . Obviously there would be more to it than that , but if Steve and Jon were convinced and maybe wanted to redo the Atyeo , they could make it work. 

Not sure the upgrade to the Atyeo would be financially worth the cost. 

semi permanent wall - what does this mean? Not that it will happen or indeed necessary. The only reason to put City fans behind both goals and create a more intimidating atmosphere (supposedly) is to aid Ashton Gate becoming a 'fortress', and I'm not convinced that would be the case. As it is the segregated Atyeo stand aids security and safety which the Club may, and the police would certainly, argue trumps atmosphere.

[Midlands Robin]

The best example of this that would match what we would like is Villa Park. It proves it can be done.

Originally, Away fans were sat in the North Stand behind the goal but in 07/08 they were moved into the Doug Ellis stand. To do that they walled off the right hand end of the stand so that away fans sit in the upper and lower tiers. Its a bloody awful experience. I can't talk about the lower tier because I haven't been in there but the last time I watched City from the upper tier, the view was crap, the service is shit because there is only one counter to serve the away fans and the concourse is quite tight for that many people. The wall between the away end and the remainder of the Ellis stand has fire doors in it but these are controlled by stewards.

 

[cellist]

We used to have the whole atyeo before redevelopment - the flat home atmosphere problem goes back further than that.

Mostly this is because we haven't, broadly speaking, had much to make any noise about!

Secondly, the demographic of supporter has changed a lot even in my time (20 years or so) due presumably to higher ticket prices. The more sanitised match day experience means more families in attendance, including women. Most people regard this as a positive - its everyone's game. It's great to have families in attendance. But it doesn't make for a hostile atmosphere for away teams. 

I'm not sure moving the away fans will make much of a positive difference to us (you can argue I suppose that we give away teams too much of an advantage - when we go away we find ourselves tucked away in a corner) - but I don't mind being known as a ground that is a good experience for away fans.

I think we can take some of the blame ourselves - I was in the singing section on new years day and it was dreadful (admittedly, so was the game)- 3 or 4 small groups all singing different songs (including songs about how the other group's songs were sh*t). That and 'I've got Harry cornick on my mind' doesn't exactly create an atmosphere. Being in the atyeo won't make a difference.

 

I'd much rather we use any communication with club officials to hold them to account for their decision making - it was unbelievably frustrating watching the q and a a few weeks ago with people asking JL about where away fans are sitting, rather than grilling him on his running of the football club. The atmosphere will improve if we have a team that is good at playing football.

[1960maaan]

13 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

semi permanent wall - what does this mean? Not that it will happen or indeed necessary. The only reason to put City fans behind both goals and create a more intimidating atmosphere (supposedly) is to aid Ashton Gate becoming a 'fortress', and I'm not convinced that would be the case. As it is the segregated Atyeo stand aids security and safety which the Club may, and the police would certainly, argue trumps atmosphere.

Thanks for picking me up on that.
Whether it will happen or not the discussion was the possibility so I offered what I think is the only option. 
The semi permanent was me thinking out loud. As Mr P said the allocation isn't the same for every game, for a Cup game it would amount to about half of the Dolman and so there would be a need for more of the concourse . So my wall would have to be movable , but would be there all the time. As I said, just thinking out loud as there are plenty more problems to overcome for it to work.

If there is a benefit having home fans behind both goals, ask Villa & Newcastle they obviously believe so , as do Southampton obviously . Others don't mind the away fans behind a goal, personally I think it does make a difference, whether it would be worth the hassle and cost, I doubt it.

[fisherrich]

2 hours ago, frenchred said:

Unfortunately they have a CEO and have said they listen to fans .........................

The Lansdowns will never listen to fans or a CEO!!

[1960maaan]

7 minutes ago, Midlands Robin said:

The best example of this that would match what we would like is Villa Park. It proves it can be done.

Originally, Away fans were sat in the North Stand behind the goal but in 07/08 they were moved into the Doug Ellis stand. To do that they walled off the right hand end of the stand so that away fans sit in the upper and lower tiers. Its a bloody awful experience. I can't talk about the lower tier because I haven't been in there but the last time I watched City from the upper tier, the view was crap, the service is shit because there is only one counter to serve the away fans and the concourse is quite tight for that many people. The wall between the away end and the remainder of the Ellis stand has fire doors in it but these are controlled by stewards.

 

I have , it ain't great. TBH I think the whole ground is a shed and a little past it, I know other disagree.

[Winterstoke toad]

The flat atmosphere at the gate has always been down to out fans not having a whole end behind the goal to stand . When it was the eastend it was only half the stand and the same with the atyeo . 
 

With the ground the way it is the only suitable option is to make the south stand standing like what Cardiff have with their canton end . Offer season ticket holders  in the south stand tickets in the Dolman and lansdown , those who say no shouldn’t complain about having a poor atmosphere.

[Mallorcan Red]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

 

Just to reiterate what I have before but the minimum allocation rules need factoring in and b) Eleemnt if future proofing too. Last time I looked..

A) 2k or 10% of capacity minimum to visiting sides, whichever is the lower.

B) If we ever get promoted that becomes 3k or 10%, again pick the lowest.

C) FA Cup, up to 15% or near as dammit seems to be the benchmark.

So then i guess it would be the lower/upper* tier of any redeveloped Atyeo, with home and away fans using differing entrances 

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Mallorcan Red said:

So then i guess it would be the lower/upper* tier of any redeveloped Atyeo, with home and away fans using differing entrances 

Yeah that could work, if and when the Atyeo is redeveloped.

That would work yes and could future proof for all scenarios.

[Claverham_Red]

Away fans placed in the Dolman, especially in this health and safety day and age, must be a non-starter? There is restricted access at the rear so no room for additional turnstiles that would surely be required for the 3k odd home Dolman fans left (even with the South stand turnstiles)?

Hopefully a bigger Atyeo stand in the future is the answer to get home fans behind both ends.

[Barrs Court Red]

36 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah that could work, if and when the Atyeo is redeveloped.

That would work yes and could future proof for all scenarios.

The Atyeo is not getting redeveloped unless City somehow have sustained period at the top of the table.