5 wins in 18 games….dreadful!

[BarneyCity]

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

They couldn’t leave him that way.

Very funny!

[Charlie BCFC]

15 hours ago, FNQ said:

So you honestly think our performance away to Leicester was as bad as last night? We were certainly up against a very good Leicester side, but we gave them a game.. last night we just embarrassed ourselves, it was utter garbage.

Not a chance we “gave it a go” against Leicester, we had 10 men behind the ball and the goal was coming from a mile off. Both performances were poor, but only Manning gets blamed for the game he managed

[FNQ]

21 minutes ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Not a chance we “gave it a go” against Leicester, we had 10 men behind the ball and the goal was coming from a mile off. Both performances were poor, but only Manning gets blamed for the game he managed

Bristol City manager Nigel Pearson told BBC Radio Bristol: 

"We're all disappointed to lose via a penalty or via anything really, but I think what we saw today with this team is a collective spirit which shines through even in adversity.

"I can't ask for more. We're talking about creating a side with an identity and I think the players are doing that in a really fantastic way.

"We want to win games - of course we do - and we're all disappointed about the result but I can't question, and I don't question, the commitment of our players. I thought they were absolutely superb."
 

Not quite the same type of feeling after the conclusion of Friday nights shitshow.. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, FNQ said:

Bristol City manager Nigel Pearson told BBC Radio Bristol: 

"We're all disappointed to lose via a penalty or via anything really, but I think what we saw today with this team is a collective spirit which shines through even in adversity.

"I can't ask for more. We're talking about creating a side with an identity and I think the players are doing that in a really fantastic way.

"We want to win games - of course we do - and we're all disappointed about the result but I can't question, and I don't question, the commitment of our players. I thought they were absolutely superb."
 

Not quite the same type of feeling after the conclusion of Friday nights shitshow.. 

For me, it was that collective spirit that gave us the best chance of getting out of this division. 

I've spoke about this before but that's how Sheffield Utd and Luton got out of this division. 

If we're hoping being well coached can get us out of it then we're buggered because we'd need to be better coached than all the other teams that are well coached. 

Against West Ham that collective spirit was still there but it wasn't against Coventry or Leeds. At Coventry I was surprised by how easy it was for them to get their second goal. We seemed to roll over following taking the league. Where as previously we had players throwing their bodies on the line. 

Leeds aswell cut through us many times without much resistance. 

 

Edited February 4 by W-S-M Seagull

[exAtyeoMax]

20 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Without scrolling through all the posts, what concerns me is our recruitment/style will change during the summer under Manning and things then go tits (more tits than it already has). Manning gets the boot. We are again left with players on 3 year deals that the next manager feels doesn’t fit his system. Rinse, repeat. 

Can’t shift the feeling that JL and BT’s vanity / ego project will be detrimental to the club in the long run. Also can’t shift the feeling that I believe they are wan kerse.

 

Ditto

[Garland-sweden]

The results talks for themselves. NP knew the team, played it from the players skills or not skills. We were hard to beat and two points from top six. Manning wants to play his football, thats the diffrent Manning-Pearson. We go from an experience manager, pl and championship, to a leauge one manager. Forest, Boro, Southampton next games, Ive always been optimistic but for me the season is over, really hope we dont get in the relegation battle .

[Bobtherobin]

We are back to being a poor quality relegation threatened team, with a ridiculously inexperienced head coach who no doubt is working tirelessly and doing his best - as did LJ and Holden. We are also back to the policy of collecting players again. This was how it was before Pearson, and is clearly how the owner, his son amd BT want it. It didnt work then, and it won't work now, but for some reason they either cant see it or dont care. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

They couldn’t leave him that way.

Tell me whhhhhhhyyyy! 

[exAtyeoMax]

15 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

They couldn’t leave him that way.

Just a small town boy?

[Shauntaylor85]

3 hours ago, Ryan said:

We are back to being a poor quality relegation threatened team, with a ridiculously inexperienced head coach who no doubt is working tirelessly and doing his best - as did LJ and Holden. We are also back to the policy of collecting players again. This was how it was before Pearson, and is clearly how the owner, his son amd BT want it. It didnt work then, and it won't work now, but for some reason they either cant see it or dont care. 

With a failed ex manager running the club. Great! 

[Shauntaylor85]

I would not be surprised at all if we went to free fall but thanks to Nige we just survive this season. A side that cannot create chances or score goals consistently. A worry. 

Edited February 4 by Shauntaylor85

[LondonBristolian]

I honestly don't know what I think at the moment. 

I could easily be convinced any of the following three statements is true:

1. The team is still adjusting to what Manning wants and we look particularly poor at the moment as a result. But we've got Twine and Sykes to come back in, plus Mebude and then Murphy, Stokes and Bird to come in the summer. If we get a new forward in too, and Manning gets a full pre-season then we could surprise people next season. Despite the poor performances, there are genuine positive signs and those criticising Manning are going to be feeling a bit silly next season. 

2. We've moved away from the strengths of the team and morale is in danger of collapsing. We'll stay up this season but only because teams are worse than us. We'll lose another key player in the summer and struggle to attract quality within our budget. Despite the odd decent result in the cup, there are major warning signings and those defending Manning are going to be feeling a bit silly next season.

3. Despite the manager change, we are what we always have been. An average mid-table team who'll get the odd streak of wins or losses but never be higher than 8th or lower than 18th. We'll spend the next few months arguing whether the club is doomed or on the verge of a great season only to find it is more of the same next time round.

As I say, I could be convinced that any of the above is true. But I honestly couldn't tell you which of 1 or 2 I think is most likely. 

[Sir Geoff]

9 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I honestly don't know what I think at the moment. 

I could easily be convinced any of the following three statements is true:

1. The team is still adjusting to what Manning wants and we look particularly poor at the moment as a result. But we've got Twine and Sykes to come back in, plus Mebude and then Murphy, Stokes and Bird to come in the summer. If we get a new forward in too, and Manning gets a full pre-season then we could surprise people next season. Despite the poor performances, there are genuine positive signs and those criticising Manning are going to be feeling a bit silly next season. 

2. We've moved away from the strengths of the team and morale is in danger of collapsing. We'll stay up this season but only because teams are worse than us. We'll lose another key player in the summer and struggle to attract quality within our budget. Despite the odd decent result in the cup, there are major warning signings and those defending Manning are going to be feeling a bit silly next season.

3. Despite the manager change, we are what we always have been. An average mid-table team who'll get the odd streak of wins or losses but never be higher than 8th or lower than 18th. We'll spend the next few months arguing whether the club is doomed or on the verge of a great season only to find it is more of the same next time round.

As I say, I could be convinced that any of the above is true. But I honestly couldn't tell you which of 1 or 2 I think is most likely. 

This is my big worry. Mentioned on another thread that TC was having a right old slanging match with TGH. That wasn't borne out of passion but sheer frustration. Several players have regressed in the past 6 weeks or so, others totally isolated in their roles and some being played out of position. All makes for a lot of discontent.

[Shauntaylor85]

Question: would you as a player walk in to a dressing room and feel motivated by Manning? I haven’t been able to watch one press conference in full, SOD was more engaging! That says it all! I never missed a second of NP pressers.  I go back to Tommy and the player reactions from Manning’s first intro to them, it was very uninspiring. The assistant coach also looks a rabbit in headlights in every photo! He reminds me of that Tony Doc who failed with McInnes. 

Edited February 4 by Shauntaylor85

[lenred]

5 hours ago, Garland-sweden said:

The results talks for themselves. NP knew the team, played it from the players skills or not skills. We were hard to beat and two points from top six.

Yep.  We were really in the throes of building something really really good and promising it felt - dare I say it in a Luton type manner that the charlatans running our club profess to love and admire so much.  Togetherness, a great resilience (even at Cardiff away playing a load of kids), a toughness to beat with a great counter attacking prowess led by a new home grown star striker in the making who clearly loved working under Pearson.  
It’s all gone to shit thanks to the clowns at the top though.  We’ll be in a group of 6 this season - it’ll be the bottom 6 though, not the top!

[LondonBristolian]

19 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Question: would you as a player walk in to a dressing room and feel motivated by Manning? I haven’t been able to watch one press conference in full, SOD was more engaging! That says it all! I never missed a second of NP pressers.  I go back to Tommy and the player reactions from Manning’s first intro to them, it was very uninspiring. The assistant coach also looks a rabbit in headlights in every photo! He reminds me of that Tony Doc who failed with McInnes. 

Being honest, I’d say it was a mistake to judge how motivational a manager is or isn’t when speaking to players based on how they communicate with the press. How a manager speaks to those outside the club, how a manager speaks to the dressing room as a group and how a manager speaks to players 1:1 are three different skill sets and being good or bad at one does not necessarily mean they will be good or bad at the others. I have no idea how motivational Manning is in a dressing room because I’ve never seen him in a dressing room.

[Davefevs]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

For me, it was that collective spirit that gave us the best chance of getting out of this division. 

I've spoke about this before but that's how Sheffield Utd and Luton got out of this division. 

If we're hoping being well coached can get us out of it then we're buggered because we'd need to be better coached than all the other teams that are well coached. 

Against West Ham that collective spirit was still there but it wasn't against Coventry or Leeds. At Coventry I was surprised by how easy it was for them to get their second goal. We seemed to roll over following taking the league. Where as previously we had players throwing their bodies on the line. 

Leeds aswell cut through us many times without much resistance. 

 

That was the thing Nige brought to this club and put into an average bunch of players (in the main).  That was our differentiator, our USP.

And not just better coached, but to another level that beats the gap to the PP clubs.

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

This is my big worry. Mentioned on another thread that TC was having a right old slanging match with TGH. That wasn't borne out of passion but sheer frustration. Several players have regressed in the past 6 weeks or so, others totally isolated in their roles and some being played out of position. All makes for a lot of discontent.

Not saying it is happening, or it will happen, but it’s possible there becomes a point where for all the refreshing training sessions, results don’t happen on the pitch and players begin to question the methods.

These typically happen between transfer windows, when players begin to think “what’s the point”.

Ismael had it at West Brom.  Intense training sessions, got results early on, everyone happy.  Then results fade, those players not playing start moaning, drags everyone down.  Manager sacked.

We will see whether this group are as “pro” as we’d like to think they are if we continue to struggle a bit.

[LondonBristolian]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That was the thing Nige brought to this club and put into an average bunch of players (in the main).  That was our differentiator, our USP.

And not just better coached, but to another level that beats the gap to the PP clubs.

Not saying it is happening, or it will happen, but it’s possible there becomes a point where for all the refreshing training sessions, results don’t happen on the pitch and players begin to question the methods.

These typically happen between transfer windows, when players begin to think “what’s the point”.

Ismael had it at West Brom.  Intense training sessions, got results early on, everyone happy.  Then results fade, those players not playing start moaning, drags everyone down.  Manager sacked.

We will see whether this group are as “pro” as we’d like to think they are if we continue to struggle a bit.

Conway is one of the bigger worries. The problem is that it is all well and good Manning trying to make him a different  type of striker but, if Conway is doing what Manning wants and then finds he is not getting chances and not getting goals then it would be utterly natural for him to start to question that. And he will be very aware poor performances will limit both his chances of breaking into the Scotland squad ahead of the euros and his options in the summer or when his contract expires.

Edited February 4 by LondonBristolian

[One Team]

1 hour ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Question: would you as a player walk in to a dressing room and feel motivated by Manning? I haven’t been able to watch one press conference in full, SOD was more engaging! That says it all! I never missed a second of NP pressers.  I go back to Tommy and the player reactions from Manning’s first intro to them, it was very uninspiring. The assistant coach also looks a rabbit in headlights in every photo! He reminds me of that Tony Doc who failed with McInnes. 

I know what you mean, I find him the same. His interviews are a tough listen for me; he speaks quickly but says little, but ensures he throws in modern coaching phrases like “behaviours” and “principles”. 

Away from football this style of management is always tough to engage with; straight talking leaders are often the best. Quite what footballers make of it I don’t know, and if it gets results they and we won’t care either. 

I get what you mean about Nige, quite often I would be hanging on every word as it meant something, even when things weren’t great. 

Edited February 4 by One Team

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, Sir Geoff said:

This is my big worry. Mentioned on another thread that TC was having a right old slanging match with TGH. That wasn't borne out of passion but sheer frustration. Several players have regressed in the past 6 weeks or so, others totally isolated in their roles and some being played out of position. All makes for a lot of discontent.

The big worry for me at the moment is I find it easier to list players who I think look worse under Manning than players who look better under him. Obviously there is an extent to which thanks to be expected as players adapt to a new style of football but the whole idea of getting Manning in was getting someone who could get the best out of the players we have.

Edited February 4 by LondonBristolian

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Conway is one of the bigger worries. The problem is that it is all well and good Manning trying to make him a different  type of striker but, if Conway is doing what Manning wants and then finds he is not getting chances and not getting goals then it would be utterly natural for him to start to question that. And he will be very aware poor performances will limit both his chances of breaking into the Scotland squad ahead of the euros and his options in the summer or when his contract expires.

As it stands and we can debate the theory….LM is devaluing Conway to the external market and devaluing his use to Bristol City.

The true definition of a shit sandwich.

[LondonBristolian]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As it stands and we can debate the theory….LM is devaluing Conway to the external market and devaluing his use to Bristol City.

The true definition of a shit sandwich.

My theory - which of course be utter nonsense - is there are people in the world who excel through "conscious learning" (i.e. they study how to do things and they then work out how to apply a theory and get better) and there are people who excel through "unconscious learning", and who learn and improve by absorbing information around them and applying it without noticing they are doing so. I think that trying to get someone who learns unconsciously to learn consciously can learn to them over-thinking things and losing the instinct that made them stand out in the first place. My major question with Manning is whether he can adapt to different players learning in different ways, and, with Conway, I feel he's trying to improve someone but ultimately stifling their instinct. 

[robin_unreliant]

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

As it stands and we can debate the theory….LM is devaluing Conway to the external market and devaluing his use to Bristol City.

The true definition of a shit sandwich.

If Tommy can score a winner on Wed  I think we can stop worrying about that. What he's done in the cup is no doubt raising his profile and adding evidence he could get goals in the PL.

[Woofyourkipper]

11 hours ago, Charlie BCFC said:

Not a chance we “gave it a go” against Leicester, we had 10 men behind the ball and the goal was coming from a mile off. Both performances were poor, but only Manning gets blamed for the game he managed

Your on another planet if you think we were poor against Leicester,yes we got beat by the better team but we were in that game till the end

Edited February 4 by Woofyourkipper

[Dr Balls]

17 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

If Tommy can score a winner on Wed  I think we can stop worrying about that. What he's done in the cup is no doubt raising his profile and adding evidence he could get goals in the PL.

Tbh scoring any goals in open play with our current set-up and tactics means you must be a top notch striker. Harry Kane would struggle up front for us right now, because there is so little service. I understand that’s why Manning has brought in Twine (at significant expense) as someone he knows who can play the way he wants, but beyond that this team doesn’t suit the style of play he is trying to impose. And on that basis, I do really feel for Conway, because he does a lot of running for so little reward. Look at how many times Bamford was on the ball on Friday compared to Tommy and you can immediately see the problem.

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

My theory - which of course be utter nonsense - is there are people in the world who excel through "conscious learning" (i.e. they study how to do things and they then work out how to apply a theory and get better) and there are people who excel through "unconscious learning", and who learn and improve by absorbing information around them and applying it without noticing they are doing so. I think that trying to get someone who learns unconsciously to learn consciously can learn to them over-thinking things and losing the instinct that made them stand out in the first place. My major question with Manning is whether he can adapt to different players learning in different ways, and, with Conway, I feel he's trying to improve someone but ultimately stifling their instinct. 

It’s another strand of the common theme here isn’t it? Adaptability. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that LM hasn’t adapted his preferred methods of playing to fit the squad, and I also don’t think it’s unfair to say that he’s struggled to adapt to changes in game. It is a theory as you rightly say, but what we do know about LM is that he’s really systematic, planning, data driven as opposed to instinctive. People in the former group do tend to struggle more with adapting to the preferences of different personality types, so it wouldn’t be a theory without merit.

[Spike]

6 hours ago, Ryan said:

We are back to being a poor quality relegation threatened team, with a ridiculously inexperienced head coach who no doubt is working tirelessly and doing his best - as did LJ and Holden. We are also back to the policy of collecting players again. This was how it was before Pearson, and is clearly how the owner, his son amd BT want it. It didnt work then, and it won't work now, but for some reason they either cant see it or dont care. 

I agree and think it comes down to the ego. They want to get promotion doing it their way and when Pearson came in he changed that up and even when they ham-stringed him he continued to do it his way which obviously rocked the boat. 

I think the board want to get promoted in a way that have the footballing world talking about what they've done, not what the manager has done for them and so they brought in Manning to coach whilst they can get back to running the club the way they want it to be run without any pushback. 

I see Manning as LJ mark II, he's forward thinking and has ideas but ultimately doesn't have the successful experience that makes great managers great, which is being able to get the best from the players. LJ and LM both are tactical thinkers, purists so to speak when it comes to management. They focus on the tactical side of things and try to get the players playing to the tactics whereas the best managers adjust the tactics to shield players from their weaknesses and use their strengths. 

A prime example is Bell and Vyner. Pearson identified what I've been saying for as long as I can remember  now, that Vyners awareness is lacking in a back 3 and that he's uncomfortable there so his confidence shrinks and he makes mistakes. Pearson changed it up to a back 4 and once Vyner got his confidence back our fans were taking about him like he was the best CB in the game and the reason for that was Babbage he's more suited to that position mentally. He doesn't look around as frequently in a back 4 because he knows his positioning is correct, in a back 3 he's always second guessing himself and so he focuses less on the game and more on where he should be causing him to make mistakes that he doesn't make when he's comfortable with his positioning. Manning came in, changed us back into a back 3 and now Vyner looks like the shadow of the player he was when he was playing with confidence and it really showed in the Leeds game as him and Dickie both looked lost in where they should be as they struggled with their positioning. 

With Bell Pearson identified that the chances were not going to come through creativity but instead in catching the opposition off guard so he employed Bell to use his pace to force chances of which it did so well that Bell was scoring for fun, Manning has come in with his tactical vision and tried to shoehorn Bell into it but it plays to all of Bells weaknesses and nullifies his strengths so he's shrunk in the eyes of the fans. 

I am still happy to give Manning time as he's still using Pearsons players, but if he manages to change so many players in the squad and his tactical vision still overlooks players weaknesses whilst failing to come to fruition then his days are already numbered regardless of what he does as he's not the type of manager to build his team on players strengths and weaknesses, he builds his tactics and tries to implied the right players to execute it, something that you need money to buy the right players to pull off effectively. 

[Silvio Dante]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

As it stands and we can debate the theory….LM is devaluing Conway to the external market and devaluing his use to Bristol City.

The true definition of a shit sandwich.

To return to a prior point, and now even more pertinent with the indication from Tinnions interview that he may not be here next season, my only logical explanation outside of short term for Twine signing was that it may unlock more goals for Tommy, and what we spent on Twine we may recoup via increase sale price attained for TC.

Otherwise, as has been said, it was a thoroughly baffling signing.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s another strand of the common theme here isn’t it? Adaptability. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that LM hasn’t adapted his preferred methods of playing to fit the squad, and I also don’t think it’s unfair to say that he’s struggled to adapt to changes in game. It is a theory as you rightly say, but what we do know about LM is that he’s really systematic, planning, data driven as opposed to instinctive. People in the former group do tend to struggle more with adapting to the preferences of different personality types, so it wouldn’t be a theory without merit.

The thing about Manning is, even this season he often (BBC site layouts anyway) went back 4 at Oxford.

It's baffling on that level too..wonder if it is his cast iron preference or that of someone else.

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Spike said:

A prime example is Bell and Vyner. Pearson identified what I've been saying for as long as I can remember  now, that Vyners awareness is lacking in a back 3 and that he's uncomfortable there so his confidence shrinks and he makes mistakes. Pearson changed it up to a back 4 and once Vyner got his confidence back our fans were taking about him like he was the best CB in the game and the reason for that was Babbage he's more suited to that position mentally. He doesn't look around as frequently in a back 4 because he knows his positioning is correct, in a back 3 he's always second guessing himself and so he focuses less on the game and more on where he should be causing him to make mistakes that he doesn't make when he's comfortable with his positioning. Manning came in, changed us back into a back 3 and now Vyner looks like the shadow of the player he was when he was playing with confidence and it really showed in the Leeds game as him and Dickie both looked lost in where they should be as they struggled with their positioning. 

A wonderful summary

The short term pain of playing Andy King at CB for the long term gain of Zak Vyner, against the backdrop of a manager confident in his ability to deliver the plan.