Possession football…

[formerly known as ivan]

Can do one!

If you are getting outclassed on the pitch and you have a chance to lump one into the box with a free kick 20 yards in their half, do it!!!

How many times were we in a position like this and three passes later it’s back with Max or we’ve given away possession!

FFS!!!

[cidercity1987]

Nail on head

We are trying to keep possession but we are absolutely shite at it

39% possession for a possession team 

Meanwhile we are forgetting our strengths of direct (not long ball) play which brought us so much success under Pearson 

[Shauntaylor85]

It’s Sean O’Driscoll, the press conferences are a similar bore but good to send you to sleep. 

Just now, cidercity1987 said:

Nail on head

We are trying to keep possession but we are absolutely shite at it

39% possession for a possession team 

Meanwhile we are forgetting our strengths of direct (not long ball) play which brought us so much success under Pearson 

Why was Nigel removed from the programme tonight? He was due to be on Sky? 

[Bobbie]

4 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Nail on head

We are trying to keep possession but we are absolutely shite at it

39% possession for a possession team 

Meanwhile we are forgetting our strengths of direct (not long ball) play which brought us so much success under Pearson 

So much success? Must have missed that 

[BS3 Ark at Ee]

We’ve got no muscle or electric pace in midfield or upfront 

[cidercity1987]

1 minute ago, Bobbie said:

So much success? Must have missed that 

Going forward it certainly did

Bristol City 0 is all we get under Manning

Front foot football and all that 

[IAmNick]

I don't think possession football is the problem, I think it's possession football with this group of players.

We saw the natural issue of Manning-ball with a Pearson squad, against a team who are extremely effective at denying time and space to their opponent. Our players wanted an extra second on the ball tonight they didn't have - and it's because they aren't players who have the qualities needed to play possession football. It's not their fault, that's not why they were brought here.

[Maltshoveller]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Nail on head

We are trying to keep possession but we are absolutely shite at it

39% possession for a possession team 

Meanwhile we are forgetting our strengths of direct (not long ball) play which brought us so much success under Pearson 

It is not just us though

90% of teams cant do it 

The only teams i have seen win anything on a regular basis playing like this are Peps teams Man City and Barca

Most teams playing this type of football lose the ball in their own 3rd more often than they make chances to score

Stop ducking about and get the ball into the other half of the pitch Then start playing football

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I don't think possession football is the problem, I think it's possession football with this group of players.

We saw the natural issue of Manning-ball with a Pearson squad, against a team who are extremely effective at denying time and space to their opponent. Our players wanted an extra second on the ball tonight they didn't have - and it's because they aren't players who have the qualities needed to play possession football. It's not their fault, that's not why they were brought here.

Bingo.

I keep saying this - evolution not revolution. Manning wants to play a totally different way to Pearson - and that’s fine. But a decent coach works with what they have and utilises pragmatism. Where we are now is we have a tactically intransigent coach who only knows one way of playing without the squad to play that way. In order to get that squad, we are talking several transfer windows and a lot of investment, with no guarantee it will work.

Getting rid of Pearson wasn’t the issue. Appointing a coach who will need years to reshape the squad (or a significant investment in the summer) was.

[cellist]

we gave the ball away a lot in dangerous areas tonight - against a good side pressing high. Always going to happen when teams try and play out from the back without the resources to pull it off. We aren't the only ones who do it when we're not cut out to, as @Maltshoveller says. Definitely causes more problems for us than it creates for the opposition and I'm sure you could say that about a lot of clubs who try to play this way. It is spoiling football for me a little bit at the moment (I know how much of a dinosaur I sound like when I say this!)

I guess we need to hope the next coaching fad that everyone copies isn't as dull to watch.

[Shauntaylor85]

Just now, Silvio Dante said:

Bingo.

I keep saying this - evolution not revolution. Manning wants to play a totally different way to Pearson - and that’s fine. But a decent coach works with what they have and utilises pragmatism. Where we are now is we have a tactically intransigent coach who only knows one way of playing without the squad to play that way. In order to get that squad, we are talking several transfer windows and a lot of investment, with no guarantee it will work.

Getting rid of Pearson wasn’t the issue. Appointing a coach who will need years to reshape the squad (or a significant investment in the summer) was.

Brian Tinnion way, he’s the real boss clearly. 

[One Team]

2 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Brian Tinnion way, he’s the real boss clearly. 

Who said on Radio Bristol it’s all about the summer now and planning for that. Great!

[formerly known as ivan]

19 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I don't think possession football is the problem, I think it's possession football with this group of players.

We saw the natural issue of Manning-ball with a Pearson squad, against a team who are extremely effective at denying time and space to their opponent. Our players wanted an extra second on the ball tonight they didn't have - and it's because they aren't players who have the qualities needed to play possession football. It's not their fault, that's not why they were brought here.

So why are we trying to play that way?

[winsaw]

25 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Can do one!

If you are getting outclassed on the pitch and you have a chance to lump one into the box with a free kick 20 yards in their half, do it!!!

How many times were we in a position like this and three passes later it’s back with Max or we’ve given away possession!

FFS!!!

Bang on we need to stop trying to play it out from the back and get the ball forward quicker, I don't want long ball but just to see forward passing attacking football instead of passing sideways

[Cowshed]

12 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I don't think possession football is the problem, I think it's possession football with this group of players.

We saw the natural issue of Manning-ball with a Pearson squad, against a team who are extremely effective at denying time and space to their opponent. Our players wanted an extra second on the ball tonight they didn't have - and it's because they aren't players who have the qualities needed to play possession football. It's not their fault, that's not why they were brought here.

A point I have made at GK  CB  and CM the team needs players with key qualities on the ball.  The quality is they cant be be average on the ball, they have to be good enough to link up play, play simple quick early reset and switch and at times take possession in tight spaces and keep it. The team needs these leaders and cultural architects to meet the expectations and intent of the model CIty are playing to.

And these players are? 

 

[formerly known as ivan]

1 minute ago, winsaw said:

Bang on we need to stop trying to play it out from the back and get the ball forward quicker, I don't want long ball but just to see forward passing attacking football instead of passing sideways

Stop trying to play out from the back??? Are you joking??? Are you telling me you don’t enjoy seeing Vyner get the ball from MO’L, only for him to play a pass to the opposition 10 yards ahead of him?

[firstdivision]

29 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Nail on head

We are trying to keep possession but we are absolutely shite at it

39% possession for a possession team 

Meanwhile we are forgetting our strengths of direct (not long ball) play which brought us so much success under Pearson 

So much success? I do like the odd afternoon nap but I must have nodded off for a bit longer than I thought. 

[IAmNick]

Just now, Cowshed said:

A point I have made at GK  CB  and CM the team needs players with key qualities on the ball.  The quality is they cant be be average on the ball, they have to be good enough to link up play, play simple quick early reset and switch and at times take possession in tight spaces and keep it. The team needs these leaders and cultural architects to meet the expectations and intent of the model CIty are playing to.

And these players are? 

 

I agree. Our players are trying to do something that isn't natural to them, and they aren't highly skilled at in many cases - that's not to say they're bad players, they're just the wrong players.

I thought it was very evident that players like Vyner and Williams tonight, when denied the extra second of thinking time they need to play in a way which isn't a part of their natural game, largely fell apart.

I also notice that at times some of our players seem to regress a bit into the more natural to them, high intensity pressing up the pitch which was more common under Pearson - but I'm not sure that's really what Manning is after. We then end up looking very disjointed, and Knight and Conway were looked extremely frustrated at times as a result.

[Southport Red]

3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:.

And these players are? 

 

Well, for one, there’s Alex Scott….….…..

oh, wait a minute….

[Dredd]

For a team playing possession football we seemed pretty intent on giving the ball to Leeds fairly regularly 

[IAmNick]

6 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

So why are we trying to play that way?

Hah, good question. The powers that be said that sounds great thankyou very much to him a few months ago...!

Whether he can adapt is the real question we now have.

[CityCiderEd]

32 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Meanwhile we are forgetting our strengths of direct (not long ball) play which brought us so much success under Pearson 

NPs had a highest win rate of 36% in his time here and that was never going to be enough for top 6

[petehinton]

Im largely fine with whatever style we have under whatever manager tbh, as long as we are creating chances and having shots on goal. Issue is, under him so far there’s been far too many games where that hasn’t been the case, today another. 

[pongo88]

40 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Can do one!

If you are getting outclassed on the pitch and you have a chance to lump one into the box with a free kick 20 yards in their half, do it!!!

How many times were we in a position like this and three passes later it’s back with Max or we’ve given away possession!

FFS!!!

To do that effectively you need players who are good at accurately crossing the ball and players who can bear tall defenders. City’s crosses usually get cut out by the first defender and the only person who looks likely to win a header is Dickie. Unfortunately he can’t play in defence and attack at the same time 

[Rocking Red Cyril]

31 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I don't think possession football is the problem, I think it's possession football with this group of players.

We saw the natural issue of Manning-ball with a Pearson squad, against a team who are extremely effective at denying time and space to their opponent. Our players wanted an extra second on the ball tonight they didn't have - and it's because they aren't players who have the qualities needed to play possession football. It's not their fault, that's not why they were brought here.

I don't think you are far from the truth there Nick. The current squad does not have the current skill set to play the LM way. Will the additions this Jan effect that ? Not this season I would of thought. BT did mention summer incomings. So I take it the rest of this season is written off as we should really not end up in a relegation fight. And ok if new signings have the pre season that could be a different looking squad with increased expectations. But I have no doubt there will be players leaving in the summer and I feel we all know who would be attracting potential buyers. So we start another rebuild. Strikes me rather than holding onto our better players and building on that base they will be sold to buy in new players . Therefore it's a team always in rebuild.  A never ending circle of mid table championship football. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the championship and cup flurries. But how does that club player set up ever become a potential top 6 side.

Just my thoughts 

COYR

[38MC]

16 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Conway were looked extremely frustrated at times as a result.

I ain’t surprised he has (clearly) decided to move on. He’s been starved of service, he’s had to create his own chances and goals, and his reward tonight was being shunted to a wide forward, and him a Pring looked on completely different wavelengths, unsurprisingly. He got treated like he’s Harry Cornick for 60 minutes. 

[IAmNick]

9 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

I don't think you are far from the truth there Nick. The current squad does not have the current skill set to play the LM way. Will the additions this Jan effect that ? Not this season I would of thought. BT did mention summer incomings. So I take it the rest of this season is written off as we should really not end up in a relegation fight. And ok if new signings have the pre season that could be a different looking squad with increased expectations. But I have no doubt there will be players leaving in the summer and I feel we all know who would be attracting potential buyers. So we start another rebuild. Strikes me rather than holding onto our better players and building on that base they will be sold to buy in new players . Therefore it's a team always in rebuild.  A never ending circle of mid table championship football. Don't get me wrong I enjoy the championship and cup flurries. But how does that club player set up ever become a potential top 6 side.

Just my thoughts 

COYR

I agree, but I was saying at the game today it's bloody boring isn't it. I'm getting near to the point I'd accept a relegation, and hopefully promotion a few years later at this point just to have some excitement again.

We've been mid table championship for more seasons than not in the last 10-15 years! Or it bloody feels like it at least.

I was looking at Leeds, their team and their last few years with envy today. Forest next, and Southampton - same thing for them.

Bleh.

Edited February 2 by IAmNick

[Red Skin]

Manning tried 2 up front today which many have been calling.  Understandable given our goal drought. (I wasn't at Coventry to see how successful this was in that game).

In doing so we weakened the midfield and left gaps for a very good Leeds team to exploit.  Our defenders did seem to dwell too long on the ball and were robbed by very quick and switched on Leeds players.  Really frustrating, but in fairness there were probably less choices of players to play out to in midfield given the change in formation with 2 up front.  (It looked like they haven't done enough work playing with 2 up front). 

It's a dilemma.  Play one up front and create fewer chances but keep the game tighter and keep control, or play 2 up front and be overrun in midfield.

Once Wells went off and we reverted to the game plan the players are now more familiar with I thought we looked more solid, and indeed created our best chance for Mehmeti. (Thought he was a really good outlet when he came on).  

The majority of the players have transitioned well to play position football - has there been some collective amnesia that has completely forgotten now we played against West Ham and Forest? 

We do need some new players that are quicker in thought and action and we have addressed that with some of the signings.  Matt James has been great, but I felt it's this kind of game (and being a man down in midfield) that really showed his limitations. 

Usual reactionary nonsense on here.  Tonight's formation didn't work against a very good Leeds side, but on the whole I still feel we are progressing. 

[38MC]

1 minute ago, Red Skin said:

Manning tried 2 up front today which many have been calling. 

No he didn’t. He might have played two forwards, but he did not play two up front; he did not change the formation; he just put a square peg in a round hole. 

Edited February 2 by 38MC

[IAmNick]

3 minutes ago, Red Skin said:

Manning tried 2 up front today which many have been calling.  Understandable given our goal drought. (I wasn't at Coventry to see how successful this was in that game).

In doing so we weakened the midfield and left gaps for a very good Leeds team to exploit.  Our defenders did seem to dwell too long on the ball and were robbed by very quick and switched on Leeds players.  Really frustrating, but in fairness there were probably less choices of players to play out to in midfield given the change in formation with 2 up front.  (It looked like they haven't done enough work playing with 2 up front). 

It's a dilemma.  Play one up front and create fewer chances but keep the game tighter and keep control, or play 2 up front and be overrun in midfield.

Once Wells went off and we reverted to the game plan the players are now more familiar with I thought we looked more solid, and indeed created our best chance for Mehmeti. (Thought he was a really good outlet when he came on).  

The majority of the players have transitioned well to play position football - has there been some collective amnesia that has completely forgotten now we played against West Ham and Forest? 

We do need some new players that are quicker in thought and action and we have addressed that with some of the signings.  Matt James has been great, but I felt it's this kind of game (and being a man down in midfield) that really showed his limitations. 

Usual reactionary nonsense on here.  Tonight's formation didn't work against a very good Leeds side, but on the whole I still feel we are progressing. 

Eh? Which 2 were up front and where was everyone else in your mind?