Too Much Negativity

[Ivorguy]

1 minute ago, Street red said:

Doesn't it put things into perspective when we have owners that have invested over what 25 years and we've achieved league 1 champions and papa freight rover cup thingy (what ever it's called ) win at wembley it's not exactly great but we established ourselves in the championship.

No , no, no.  Face the truth for a city and hinterland the size of Bristol, with a solid fan base, we should have done far better over last two decades and more.  Top 6, Europe in how many years was it.  It is plain pathetic 

[Street red]

Just now, Ivorguy said:

No , no, no.  Face the truth for a city and hinterland the size of Bristol, with a solid fan base, we should have done far better over last two decades and more.  Top 6, Europe in how many years was it.  It is plain pathetic 

Oh it's very pathetic and the size of Bristol plus the size of fan base outside Bristol which is a good percentage then it's a massive massive underachievement. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I'll play Devil's Advocate a bit.

I'm not altogether convinced by the shape, the start under Manning and Jon Lansdown and Tinnion in their current roles to say the least. However for all that the January business and good young players looks interesting.

The problem is how far do we want to push it..we could go to Hull type recruitment with a tojbg manager (for Rosenior maybe read Manning) building on a solid base, giving it 2-3 years go to at it..Hull were a bit up and down last season.

We have done heavy lifting. Semenyo was probably important for FFP, Scott was the clincher in providing major headroom.

*I am still in the NP and his team, plus Gould and Tinnion in the appropriate role as opposed to his present one camp- but is a Hull type blueprint building on a solid base something that may materialise?

Edited February 4 by Mr Popodopolous

[Numero Uno]

10 hours ago, RollsRoyce said:

Not sure about negativity . Realism and recognition that J Lansdown , Tinnion and Manning are poorly equipped to take the club forward . It would be bad enough to have one of those 3 roles covered by a weak link , but to have all three is a rinse and repeat of all that has come before. 
 

If that is the dream team then it will be another 2 years whilst we go through the motions before the force of evidence is such that yet again the club has to accept it messed up. Again. Again. 
 

The club needs a reset from top to bottom. 

Many know what it needs but we all know what bullshit gets spouted if you dare suggest that so I won't bother.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, mason said:

Normally agree with most of your posts but you seem to be slipping in the hope for the future view as for the latest window;

Is one not injured and more than likely only here till summer? another who cannot hardly get a game for a club I`ve never heard of and is not exp in the championship and also not perm? and is one not even here till the summer? the other young gun is just a prospect who wont be starting in the first team anytime soon? cant see how thats good myself

Oh forgot the exp offload who scored for a real top 6 contender after playing in his fav position.

The rebuild and offload will continue this summer...again fuelled by mainly hope and little cash.

The squad is starting to have a bit of churn, hopefully not a recurring theme. Weimann should have been utilised through the middle more yes..I thought so in his first season even more when he made the great excellent yet unspotted by us early runs.

Twine- hopefully back in 2 weeks. His longevity here who knows.. if it is merely loan with no option or no realistic option, not least as he us Cup tied then it is pointless and takes us back towards territory of signing for the sake of it.

Bird is one I've been keen on for some time. Seems to be a technically and tactically sound youngish midfielder. With Championship experience, plus playing with Knight again.

Dire is unfortunately named and until we see him play for us we really don't know. Hard to make a judgment either way..on paper seems to be young, quick and can play alont the front however he is an unknown quantity.

Likewise Murphy who I doubt we'll see until next season, Stokes next season or later.

TGH, I'm reasonably happy we signed him permanently, are you? Good room for growth too age wise.

In respect of outgoings some risks IMO.

1) Conway and the lack of a new contract signed.

2) If say James, King and to a degree Williams (Weimann is already gone) leave at once that's a lot if experience and know-how. Wells is the only true senior pro? Naismith too I guess.

3) Pring. I'd say no dice as we don't need to sell and he has no Book Value as such being an Academyish Product but otoh a sale is pure profit...but if we don't need to sell then no IMO. TV money rising too will help all clubs but we could be or should be reasonably placed.

Lastly Manning. Is he back 3 or back 4, it is hard to keep track..some of the ins and outs should point to a back 4, a return to 4-3-3 but he seems determined to go wirh the current shape which may not fully suit us.

[REDOXO]

11 hours ago, Ivorguy said:

No , no, no.  Face the truth for a city and hinterland the size of Bristol, with a solid fan base, we should have done far better over last two decades and more.  Top 6, Europe in how many years was it.  It is plain pathetic 

 

11 hours ago, Street red said:

Oh it's very pathetic and the size of Bristol plus the size of fan base outside Bristol which is a good percentage then it's a massive massive underachievement. 

It is pathetic. What’s more pathetic is our supporters accepting what ever that was on Friday and explaining it off in a way that it was all some how to do with the opposition being who they were with parachute money

Leeds United players did not pass tackle run for us! We were shit all on our own!! Once our supporters (solid fan base) stop accepting dross and excuses from the club and repeating them themselves we might become a little more competitive after all we are a huge city with a huge catchment area!

[Mr Popodopolous]

12 hours ago, INCRED said:

I recall we played them first game of the season 4/5 years ago and got schooled and lost 3-1. We were miles off them that day under LJ 

The likes of Leicester, Southampton & Leeds will always be superior to other teams in this league because of the resources available to them 

In realty we are a 10th - 14th team currently based on the resources we have but now and again a team can buy & sell wisely and build a team that find a way of competing and achieving a top 6 place and then get promoted through the play offs 

Luton & Coventry have shown what is possible and even Ipswich albeit they have started to fall away slightly 

my point is, there will be games where the team performs below the usual acceptable standard especially when they come up against teams in form with higher calibre players and we need to accept this will happen occasionally but over 46 games if we can average 1.8 - 2 points per game then it is possible to finish in the top 6 but many stars have to align, very much like 2008 

Manning will be given time and there will be personnel changes again in the summer 

I used to be a ST holder up until 3 years ago and I honestly lost faith and fell out of love with the club purely because I was bored stiff watching us play and feed of scraps with no pattern of play and seeing players stealing a wage 

With what I have seen so far since Manning has been brought in, I feel as though we are seeing some form of playing style albeit it’s work in progress and it may take the rest of the season and the summer until we really see the fruits of his coaching and young talented players being integrated. At least now I can see a better style of football with structure and players who actually play for the shirt 

I may be convinced to get a ST for 2024/25 season just yet 

We have a turnover tbh that will be comfortably top 10. I reckon 7th or 8th this year but no lower than 10th.

5 Parachute Clubs and Sunderland ahead of us definitely.

Then it comes down to how much risk we want to take, how far we want to push FFP etc..how much headroom from then into now we have.

Leeds played us off the park in 2019 on the Opening day but weren't a Parachute Club. Bigger resources and an outstanding manager in Bielsa.

Being a bigger club on a roll or upward curve as they were they were resources and momentum absolutely will have been in their favour too. They also took FFP close to limits whereas that year I estimate we could've spent a further £30m across fees and amortisation and not failed.

The big caveat though, does it get us up??

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[Street red]

50 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

 

It is pathetic. What’s more pathetic is our supporters accepting what ever that was on Friday and explaining it off in a way that it was all some how to do with the opposition being who they were with parachute money

Leeds United players did not pass tackle run for us! We were shit all on our own!! Once our supporters (solid fan base) stop accepting dross and excuses from the club and repeating them themselves we might become a little more competitive after all we are a huge city with a huge catchment area!

We shouldn't expect performances like that it's no excuse anymore like you said if we want to be more competitive then we shouldn't expect anything less and that comes from board level as well because there petty excuses this season have been nothing but embarrassing.

[REDOXO]

2 minutes ago, Street red said:

We shouldn't expect performances like that it's no excuse anymore like you said if we want to be more competitive then we shouldn't expect anything less and that comes from board level as well because there petty excuses this season have been nothing but embarrassing.

They have! I expect it from Jon and his lackies! 
 

However what I have found most bemusing is the compliance of our supporters to the club hierarchy’s idiocy and supporter acceptance of the utter disdain they are treated to. This can be seen in the stands, and throughout the various media, written and broadcast! For instance Someone soon has to not be an apologist on Sound of the City, that would be a start. A bit of passion and anger would help everyone! As would begging Twentyman to take his old job back!
 

All the time The head slappers on here continue to ignore the garbage in front of them and make excuses for ineptitude our inabilities will continue!
 

44 years of failure and counting, a life time gone for so many and our supporters on the whole still don’t get it. We are part of the problem/failure!!

 

 

[Monkeh]

26 minutes ago, Street red said:

We shouldn't expect performances like that it's no excuse anymore like you said if we want to be more competitive then we shouldn't expect anything less and that comes from board level as well because there petty excuses this season have been nothing but embarrassing.

Spot on, the team can lose that's not the problem it's the manner of defeat that's rhe problem,

Zero fight is inexcusable 

[Derek]

Based on the last 5 league games Bristol City and Blackburn Rovers are the bottom two clubs.

Blackburn have scored 6 goals and conceded 12

City have scored 3 goals and conceded 7

Not bad for a top 6 side!

[Clutton Caveman]

On 03/02/2024 at 08:35, MarcusX said:

Whilst I generally agree with you, what concerns me last night is the way we setup and played. Stinks of naivety that LM felt we could go out and try and play the same way against a very good Leeds side. After about 10-15 mins and that Tanner slip we looked devoid of confidence and there was no plan B.

Leeds are very good, I won’t deny that and some teams we just won’t beat, but that was a dreadful performance.

No plan B is a long running problem

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

 

It is pathetic. What’s more pathetic is our supporters accepting what ever that was on Friday and explaining it off in a way that it was all some how to do with the opposition being who they were with parachute money

Leeds United players did not pass tackle run for us! We were shit all on our own!! Once our supporters (solid fan base) stop accepting dross and excuses from the club and repeating them themselves we might become a little more competitive after all we are a huge city with a huge catchment area!

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[REDOXO]

4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

Exactly!  

[Clutton Caveman]

20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I think the top 10 budget claim is true.

Whether we actually have a top 10 expenditure is a very different issue.

I've looked through the League this year and believe only the Parachute clubs and Sunderland feel nailed on to have a higher revenue. Maybe one or two that are variable either way of course.

Whether we're 7th or a bit below can be a matter of speculation but I do think we comfortably have a top 10 revenue in the division.

Parachute Payments- Solidarity Payments gap being eliminated would reduce it further but otoh sides such as Leeds, Leicester and Southampton 3 unusually strong clubs relegated at once would exceed our income anyway.

Parachute Payments are ruining the Championship. As an alternative I would like to see a rule change that all Prem player and staff contracts contain a relegation clause there their package reduces significantly when relegation occurs. Most contracts are not more than 3 years in duration so over a 3 year period the parachute payments could be phased out. This would protect relegated teams and get rid of the 2 paced league.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Parachute Payments are ruining the Championship. As an alternative I would like to see a rule change that all Prem player and staff contracts contain a relegation clause there their package reduces significantly when relegation occurs. Most contracts are not more than 3 years in duration so over a 3 year period the parachute payments could be phased out. This would protect relegated teams and get rid of the 2 paced league.

There are Relegation Reduction clauses and tbh Amortisation can incentivise clubs to push that further.

That aside, the reductions are typically 25-50%.

Even if we disregard Parachute Payments for a second, the fact is we probably have the 6th or 7th Highest Income or 8th even with this in mind..are we making the best use of it?

My view is that Pooling Parachute Payments and Solidarity Payments smoothes the cliff-edge somewhat, or even deduction from Revenue but not Cash Flow of the gap between Parachute and Solidarity Payments.

Thereby cutting about £40-45m from the deficit in a stroke while not forcing relegation to mean instant administration for a host of clubs.

[Sheltons Army]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

It’s a hard one to ignore or write off WSM but I’m hanging on to it hopefully being an outlier , with the short turnaround and opponents in Leeds a really bad combination.

Even then , there was some extra concerns and I’m now looking at how we react 

The Forest game May skew that somewhat as I expect players , maybe understandably finding some extra puff  and drive

It’s The next few league games are an important phase in resetting a marker , in , at least performance

[Super]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Its an argument that doesn't wash for me. 

Last season we played the best team in the world, a team that later on in the season wrote themselves into the history books and we came away from that game with our heads held high. Yea we lost but we gave a good account of ourselves. 

Same for earlier on in the season away at Leicester and Leeds. 

But Friday was terrible. Ultimately its 11 men vs 11 men and we simply did not match them for effort. If you can't match a team for effort then you have little chance. I can accept a team being better than us but what I can't accept is having such a weak mentality on Friday night.

Leeds aren't invincible either. The argument of losing to a better team falls apart when you consider we recently beat 6th placed West Ham who are a considerable better team than Leeds. 

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

[Sir Geoff]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

That's just nonsense. Leeds fans were praising us as the best team they'd played up to that point. Leicester we lost to a penalty.

[Super]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

That's just nonsense. Leeds fans were praising us as the best team they'd played up to that point. Leicester we lost to a penalty.

Oh come on we could still be playing at Leicester now and we still wouldn't have scored. Did we even have a shot on target?

Edited February 5 by Super

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 minutes ago, Super said:

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

We played well v Man City, we were denied a clear penalty not long after they scored first, stayed in the game quite late and 3-0 flattered them a little albeit they still probably had gears.

Was it Bell or Conway also missed a great chance during a little phase of pressure not long before their 2nd.

[Super]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We played well v Man City, we were denied a clear penalty not long after they scored first, stayed in the game quite late and 3-0 flattered them a little albeit they still probably had gears.

Was it Bell or Conway also missed a great chance during a little phase of pressure not long before their 2nd.

It wasn't even a penalty. We battled yes but they never broke sweat.

[Mr Popodopolous]

16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

We played well v Man City, we were denied a clear penalty not long after they scored first, stayed in the game quite late and 3-0 flattered them a little albeit they still probably had gears.

Was it Bell or Conway also missed a great chance during a little phase of pressure not long before their 2nd.

On about 15-20 mins someone was clattered. Penalty denied as is so often the case for us.

There was also an excellent chance, missed. Watch it back?

Just seen again, Bell missed a golden chance at 1-0. Golden. It came at him quickly I guess...but the atmosphere was up and a bit of pressure was on at the time.

Townsend thought penalty.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous

[redsquirrel]

2 hours ago, REDOXO said:

They have! I expect it from Jon and his lackies! 
 

However what I have found most bemusing is the compliance of our supporters to the club hierarchy’s idiocy and supporter acceptance of the utter disdain they are treated to. This can be seen in the stands, and throughout the various media, written and broadcast! For instance Someone soon has to not be an apologist on Sound of the City, that would be a start. A bit of passion and anger would help everyone! As would begging Twentyman to take his old job back!
 

All the time The head slappers on here continue to ignore the garbage in front of them and make excuses for ineptitude our inabilities will continue!
 

44 years of failure and counting, a life time gone for so many and our supporters on the whole still don’t get it. We are part of the problem/failure!!

 

 

tinnion would shit himself if GT came back

[Mr Popodopolous]

One more thing.

Vs to varying degrees, Man City, Leicester and Leeds in 2023. We were outplayed but we were cohesive. We looked like we had a plan, even if that plan varied.

Friday we did not. Only in a few games under Manning have we looked cohesive IMO.

[Monkeh]

31 minutes ago, Super said:

The 3 games you mention we barely laid a glove on them. Ok it's Man City they outclass most teams but Leicester we were outclassed and Leeds away where the same as the other night we were lucky to only lose by a single goal. As per usual you are trying to make this into a Pearson v Manning debate fact is we had plenty of poor performances under Pearson and it's continuing under Manning. 

Complete and utter horseshit 

A prime example of rewriting history to suit a narrative 

[Sheltons Army]

28 minutes ago, Super said:

Oh come on we could still be playing at Leicester now and we still wouldn't have scored. Did we even have a shot on target?

Didn’t embarrass ourselves though , which forget the score line ,  to be quite honest , we did on Friday 

[Super]

7 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Complete and utter horseshit 

A prime example of rewriting history to suit a narrative 

WTF are you on about?

[Super]

1 minute ago, Sheltons Army said:

Didn’t embarrass ourselves though , which forget the score line ,  to be quite honest , we did on Friday 

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

[Mr Popodopolous]

20 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

Ah would that be when we had 11 players out if you mean the final game of NP. We stayed in it quite well? Do you mean this season.

We were utterly screwed..We had to field Sykes LB, Pring CB, an Academy product who I'd never heard of at RB.

Think Mehmeti was a 10 or something, our shape was due to injuries all over the place.

Tanner, McCrorie

Vyner, Atkinson

Roberts

Naismith, James, King

Benarous

I forget the last 2 but there were 2 others out too.

They were Williams and Wells.

Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous
I remember now