Too Much Negativity

[bearded_red]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. 

You are aware of the team we put out that day? How was is is ‘embarrassing’?!

An absolute bare bones team with numerous players out of position played out a perfectly even game. 

Edited February 5 by bearded_red

[Sheltons Army]

3 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

Cardiff was poor , but blimey , there were a few factors why (I was hoping for a game)

Ive said I hope Friday was an outlier because of the short turnaround and the style , and quality , of opponents as a bad Combination  

But that doesn’t excuse the set up or selection , the lack of change in game tactically etc and the irritation between players made it look even worse

Lets be honest , it was a bit of a car crash , really awful

As I said , Let’s hope an outlier , but even then m for me, still questions about LM and Friday 

[Super]

7 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

Cardiff was poor , but blimey , there were a few factors why (I was hoping for a game)

Ive said I hope Friday was an outlier because of the short turnaround and the style , and quality , of opponents as a bad Combination  

But that doesn’t excuse the set up or selection , the lack of change in game tactically etc and the irritation between players made it look even worse

Lets be honest , it was a bit of a car crash , really awful

As I said , Let’s hope an outlier , but even then m for me, still questions about LM and Friday 

Absolutely it was a horrendous performance on Friday.

[George Rs]

11 minutes ago, Super said:

Cardiff away was an embarrassing performance i thought. I agree about Friday the point i was trying to make was that we have had a lot of poor performances this season not Just under Manning.

Cardiff away was a relatively even game in which they took their chances we didn’t. 
 

Cardiff away was also the game that Mark Sykes started at LB, an uncapped youngster started at RB, Cornick started in the 9. Was the game we only named 8 subs, two of them keepers. Our entire bench had less than 70 professional football appearances, combined. 
 

Losing a relatively even derby game away, with only 11 fit senior players (also only two fit defenders) is in no one comparable to getting comprehensively battered at home to a promotion chasing team when we’ve had arguably the best availability of players since august. Score line flattered us to an insane degree. On another day we would’ve lost 7-0 in our own backyard. 

[Super]

12 minutes ago, bearded_red said:

You are aware of the team we put out that day? How was is is ‘embarrassing’?!

An absolute bare bones team with numerous players out of position played out a perfectly even game. 

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

[cidercity1987]

Hey @Super, do you enjoy being contrary to pretty much everyone else?

Leeds H was levels of performance worse than Man City H, Leicester A, Leeds A

[Mr Popodopolous]

4 minutes ago, Super said:

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

Birmingham yeah, we had a lot of the ball but no real..it was soporific. Wells missed a great chance at 1-0 but they deservedly won.

Stoke we did most things right except finish the job, see it out..We were in most aspects the better side v Stoke.

[Super]

1 minute ago, cidercity1987 said:

Hey @Super, do you enjoy being contrary to pretty much everyone else?

Leeds H was levels of performance worse than Man City H, Leicester A, Leeds A

Pearson isn't beyond criticism i've seen rubbish under him and Manning just to balance it out.

[George Rs]

8 minutes ago, Super said:

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

No one’s saying those weren’t bad games, but they don’t cancel each other out? 
 

Yes, Pearson had some bad games. Yes, Manning has had some bad games. 
 

The difference is one of them was sacked after poor performances with an injury hit squad, the other was brought into replace him and I quote “push us up towards the top end of the table” yet they’ve had largely similar results? 
 

It’s about optics and perspective. If the club came out when Pearson was sacked and said “we are extremely gratefully for the job Nige has done over the last few seasons but we now feel that the club is ready to go in a different direction now that we are in a more stable position” then a lot less people would be angry. 
 

Instead they spouted bullshit about having a top 6 squad and at some points just lied to fans faces. I’m relatively hopeful about what Manning can do after a whole pre season and a couple of “his own” signings. That doesn’t discount the fact that at times this season has been an avoidable clusterf*ck.

Edited February 5 by George Rs

[bearded_red]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

Ok Brum at home and Stoke at home or does Manning get the blame for those as well. I'm not defending Manning the other night was shocking but we have had a lot of these games this season.

Won’t pretend to have a perfect memory of various crap Bristol City performances, but my memory of the Stoke game was we were the better team and somehow chucked it away by conceding some pretty soft goals. The stats say we had more possession, more shots and a higher xG than Stoke. I do remember Birmingham being fairly crap though.

Happy for people to think I’m talking rubbish, but I don’t remember being as obviously outplayed as we were Friday, certainly at home, in a long time. No doubt there will be plenty of crap performances that can be brought up, but Friday night was approaching the levels of that Brentford game under Lee Johnson that I thought we should have chucked the towel in and allowed everyone to go home early. Actually failed to have a shot of any kind in that game, pretty special achievement that.

 

Edited February 5 by bearded_red

[Super]

Just now, George Rs said:

No one’s saying those weren’t bad games, but they don’t cancel each other out? 
 

Yes, Pearson had some bad games. Yes, Manning has had some bad games. 
 

The difference is one of them was sacked after poor performances with an injury hit squad, the other was brought into replace him and I quote “push us up towards the top end of the table” yet they’ve had largely similar results? 
 

It’s about optics and perspective. If the club came out when Pearson was sacked and said “we are extremely gratefully for the job Nige has done over the last few seasons but we now feel that the club is ready to go in a different direction now that we are in a more stable position” then a lot less people would be angry. 
 

Instead they spouted bullshit about having a top 6 squad and at some points just lied to fans faces. I’m relatively hopeful about what Manning can do after a whole pre season and a couple of “his own” signings. That doesn’t discount the fact that at times this season has been an avoidable absolute shambles. 

Pearson is a good manager and struggled here fairly obvious Manning will do the same.

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, Super said:

Pearson isn't beyond criticism i've seen rubbish under him and Manning just to balance it out.

Definitely not beyond criticism no. Shabbily treated though IMO and perhaps this is not a change to progress us. Hopefully I'm wrong about the progress point.

[Sheltons Army]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Pearson is a good manager and struggled here fairly obvious Manning will do the same.

If you lived far away and looked only at results and league tables , you could probably have a good argument for that claim and I accept , it  wasn’t written as a criticism

And yes at times the Football wasn’t particularly entertaining and there were performances and hiccups along his time ......

I always said he wasn’t a Messiah or a coaching genius but he had a lot of top qualities that saved our bacon and set us up) and I think many fans either understood this all along the journey or hopped onboard as it went on.

We won’t ever find out how far he could have taken us

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fwiw the Birmingham game although they were better and we were flat, meh- average.

A Birmingham fan perspective Match Report, gave us some average to reasonable ratings.

https://joysandsorrows.co.uk/2023/08/view-from-the-south-bristol-city-v-birmingham-city-19-august-2023/

[DaveInSA]

13 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said:

If you lived far away and looked only at results and league tables , you could probably have a good argument for that claim and I accept , it  wasn’t written as a criticism

And yes at times the Football wasn’t particularly entertaining and there were performances and hiccups along his time ......

I always said he wasn’t a Messiah or a coaching genius but he had a lot of top qualities that saved our bacon and set us up) and I think many fans either understood this all along the journey or hopped onboard as it went on.

We won’t ever find out how far he could have taken us

And now, we are about to rip up the fact that our bacon was saved along with a clear view of what we were as a football club and replace it with something else. It makes my blood boil.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, DaveInSA said:

And now, we are about to rip up the fact that our bacon was saved along with a clear view of what we were as a football club and replace it with something else. It makes my blood boil.

It's almost an act of self-sabotage.

I know it isn't but it feels like such a foolish decision, maybe Manning will suddenly change and go back to something more transitional as we go but I dunno...Jon Lansdown and Tinnion, these 2 especially have a lot to answer for.

[ray savino]

Like it or lump it, that’s the choice we’ve got and always had. We can stick with following the team or not bother going down. Always been this way.

Frustrating as it is, I know that I shall probably see my way to buying a season card for next year... more through heart, habit and hope than logic!

What would soften the decision to buy my ticket and give me hope for next season?

1) A top 10 finish with signs that the new regime were turning the corner with more convincing attacking performances and more consistency. I think psychologically getting top 10 would be a clear progressive boost for the club and supporters. A platform to kick on.

2) A transition in style that does not rely on another ridiculous and over expensive churn of playing staff. Invest in a few/couple more quality key players to supplement a solid hard working squad (relatively expensive investment but not to put us up shit creek as before). Also we really do not have the cash for such a churn like before.

3) LM and staff to show more signs and vision to be be adaptable and pragmatic at times in developing his style to get results. Particularly to be more flexible and effective in changing tactics in game to bring results.

If LM and the club can achieve this, then I believe it would start to reunite the fan base and create a less toxic, more positive atmosphere. I don’t want to be able to turn round and carry on spouting “I’ve heard it all before”, just want some hope but most of all some entertainment and the signs of some real success.

Bonus:

To beat Forest and get a nice little run in the cup. Be brave v Man Utd and give them a game (Beat them obviously).

There. Not asking for too much is it. Or is it?

[ray savino]

All of my previous post would be for this season obviously!

Next season a real crack at getting into the top 6!

[ray savino]

10 minutes ago, mason said:

No not at all...wait I lied,,, seriously each to his/her own; (my view is well known I`ll be back when they have gone, whichever div we are in)

Ha. Yes just trying to convince myself that it might all be worth it and stay positive. After 58 seasons of hoping (bar 4 seasons in the top flight, a few of enjoyable and creditable cup runs and lower tier promotions) it’s getting harder to feel positive believe me. I sometimes wish I could change my allegience but it’s too late now. It was all my Dad’s fault for taking me back in 1966!  

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, DaveInSA said:

And now, we are about to rip up the fact that our bacon was saved along with a clear view of what we were as a football club and replace it with something else. It makes my blood boil.

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[DaveInSA]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

It's almost an act of self-sabotage.

I know it isn't but it feels like such a foolish decision, maybe Manning will suddenly change and go back to something more transitional as we go but I dunno...Jon Lansdown and Tinnion, these 2 especially have a lot to answer for.

‘Tis the Lansdown way and will always be thus.

Someone, normally not qualified gets their ear (Ashton, Tinnion), then somehow (by stroking their egos) becomes their “trusted” advisor, part of the inner circle. And then…we get this nonsense. - every time a flip flop of direction.

I’ve been back in the UK for 6 years. My Brother keeps saying, c’mon Dave, get a season ticket. But why would I. It’s completely average. I go to 4-5 games a season. I’ve said this before on this forum I want it to be a little bit better than a little bit worse. And TBF when we had WSM up front then it WAS like that - at least we always looked like scoring a couple (the downside was that our defence was conceding a couple too), but at least I left with a smile on my face  

We need to find combinations of players that work at this level, and have all of them operating at 100% all of the time to stand a chance against the parachute payment clubs. It’s a massive ask.

Maybe Manning can do it. But can we afford to wait for 1,2,3 windows for him to do it?

It’s all so needless and daft. 

[DaveInSA]

7 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

This is your best post for a while - way more considered

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. On what I’ve seen so far there has been the odd game and spells in games where you can see what it might look like if he gets it right. First half v Forest for example when they couldn’t get the ball off us.

However it’s no good looking easy on the eye and going six weeks without winning a football match. Pearson was being pragmatic for a reason, that’s experience for you. A new manager is always going to have their own philosophy but it’s got to come with results. That’s the challenge over the coming months.

Tinnion is coming across as a bit desperate. He knows what he said and he also knows it ain’t being delivered right now. I said this earlier, the poor timing and rhetoric of the sacking is biting them on the arse as it stands.

[Superjack]

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. 

He can't deliver the 'whole package', and to be fair that isn't his remit. He is just a coach. 

There was only one person that was delivering the whole package.

[Davefevs]

53 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

A lot of people try to turn it into a Pearson Vs Manning debate. But the reality for me is that I always look at the bigger picture. There are some people that are/were so anti Nige for whatever reason and they just can't let it go. However for me, whilst I was a big Nige fan, ultimately I'm a fan of Bristol City. 

My over arching concern has always been that Liam Manning does not fit the criteria which was set and what most of us expected. He's a guy that likes to play 3 at the back and he likes to control games through possesion "if the opposition haven't got the ball they can't score" is what he once said. It's the complete polar opposite to everything we've been building towards and it doesn't suit the players we've got. 

Had we of brought someone in that was a continuation of Pearson then I don't think there would be so many pissed off right now and many would have got behind it because at least you can then see the logic in the decision. There would have then been some integrity in this decision. 

But the reason people are pissed off is not mainly because Pearson was sacked but because the plan was ripped up before it came to fruition. I think that's left a very sour taste in lots of people's mouths especially when the club said the change was made to make us compete this season. The timing of it was all wrong.

Their new plan had no chance of being successful this season. The club lied to us at a time that they said they wanted to improve communications. Even Tinnion on RB lied the other day when he tried saying the football is now much better to watch and people are now enjoying it. We can't score and we can't win. What is Tins seeing that we're not? 

…and we actually have less possession (%) than under Nige!  What we have is a more methodical approach when we have possession, we just can’t control if we don’t have enough.

Just 4/15 league games we’ve had more than 50%.

[W-S-M Seagull]

21 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. On what I’ve seen so far there has been the odd game and spells in games where you can see what it might look like if he gets it right. First half v Forest for example when they couldn’t get the ball off us.

However it’s no good looking easy on the eye and going six weeks without winning a football match. Pearson was being pragmatic for a reason, that’s experience for you. A new manager is always going to have their own philosophy but it’s got to come with results. That’s the challenge over the coming months.

Tinnion is coming across as a bit desperate. He knows what he said and he also knows it ain’t being delivered right now. I said this earlier, the poor timing and rhetoric of the sacking is biting them on the arse as it stands.

I think tho Forest were happy for us to play that way? And as already discussed it is the FA cup so im not too sure how much can be learned from cup games.

I listened to Mannings press conference today. He said all the same rubbish that Tinnion did about us now looking good etc and said all we've got to do now is to win games. I don't think Manning is particularly a likeable charismatic personality so saying PR bollocks really doesn't help. I know what I'm seeing and it's not what Tinnion or Manning is saying I'm seeing. The stats back that up. 

I don't think its going to work out for Manning here, I hope it does but it just does not feel like the right fit. I have no doubt that he is an excellent coach but coaches don't always make good managers. 

I think when he does depart he's probably going to look back and realise he made quite a few mistakes. The biggest one being philosophy and behaviours over results. This is the Championship, you don't get time to do that. 

Today he said "we need to get players performing at 6's and 7's before we can expect 8s and 9s" and whilst I understand that. I'd say we had players doing that before he came in. On the one hand he's saying we are playing better but then he's insinuating that players are playing below 6's and 7s and that doesn't stack up to me. LJ bullshit bingo springs to mind. 

Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull

[Numero Uno]

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

He can't deliver the 'whole package', and to be fair that isn't his remit. He is just a coach. 

There was only one person that was delivering the whole package.

He is in charge of the 1st team whatever his job title is, he has to deliver results like anybody else who is in charge. His remit is to deliver a more exciting style of football AND get results, that’s what I mean by the whole package. If not it’s on to the next reset.

Edited February 5 by Numero Uno

[Numero Uno]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and we actually have less possession (%) than under Nige!  What we have is a more methodical approach when we have possession, we just can’t control if we don’t have enough.

Just 4/15 league games we’ve had more than 50%.

And we didn’t win one of those four games that we “dominated” possession.

[W-S-M Seagull]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

…and we actually have less possession (%) than under Nige!  What we have is a more methodical approach when we have possession, we just can’t control if we don’t have enough.

Just 4/15 league games we’ve had more than 50%.

Who'd have thought that a team not built for possession football, wouldn't be very good at posession football hey? 

Methodical just sounds boring and too predictable to me which aligns with what my eyes see and that is that we fail to create much. 

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Who'd have thought that a team not built for possession football, wouldn't be very good at posession football hey? 

Methodical just sounds boring and too predictable to me which aligns with what my eyes see and that is that we fail to create much. 

You don’t have to dominate possession to win football matches anyway. Can’t remember which game it was but looking at the BBC stats the other night one team had 38% possession and 10 shots to the oppositions 4 and we’re winning. Good possession is what counts.