Davefevs Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: And we didn’t win one of those four games that we “dominated” possession. I didn’t even look that far! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 Just now, Davefevs said: I didn’t even look that far! Proves a point about taking possession stats out of context. Tinnion wasn’t speaking for me if he reckons that equates to more enjoyment!! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Numero Uno said: Proves a point about taking possession stats out of context. Tinnion wasn’t speaking for me if he reckons that equates to more enjoyment!! I love the Analyst website. https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/ some really simple stats that when combined give a really good indicator of team style and effectiveness. this one is really simplistic, but if you were asked who most possession based teams were, or who the most direct were I don’t think too many people would look beyond the likes of Saints, Leicester and Hull at one end and Rotherham, Birmingham, Millwall at the other. I’d say Ipswich and Leeds are “front foot, attacking” teams, and they are in that top-right quadrant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) Ironically under NP, 2 of the games we won we had more possession this season. Funny how it goes. Numbers were similar too v Plymouth iirc? The 2 with more, Millwall away and Rotherham away (think Rotherham had a player off injured after using all subs for some time towards the end). Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I love the Analyst website. https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/ some really simple stats that when combined give a really good indicator of team style and effectiveness. this one is really simplistic, but if you were asked who most possession based teams were, or who the most direct were I don’t think too many people would look beyond the likes of Saints, Leicester and Hull at one end and Rotherham, Birmingham, Millwall at the other. I’d say Ipswich and Leeds are “front foot, attacking” teams, and they are in that top-right quadrant. So slow and not very intricate then 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 29 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: He is in charge of the 1st team whatever his job title is, he has to deliver results like anybody else who is in charge. His remit is to deliver a more exciting style of football AND get results, that’s what I mean by the whole package. If not it’s on to the next reset. Oh and THIS SEASON or why would we change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 54 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: The ultimate issue for me is that Manning has to deliver the whole package. On what I’ve seen so far there has been the odd game and spells in games where you can see what it might look like if he gets it right. First half v Forest for example when they couldn’t get the ball off us. However it’s no good looking easy on the eye and going six weeks without winning a football match. Pearson was being pragmatic for a reason, that’s experience for you. A new manager is always going to have their own philosophy but it’s got to come with results. That’s the challenge over the coming months. Tinnion is coming across as a bit desperate. He knows what he said and he also knows it ain’t being delivered right now. I said this earlier, the poor timing and rhetoric of the sacking is biting them on the arse as it stands. The key thing Pearson did for me was lower fans expectations Sadly for manning due to those incompetent leaders we have to suffer with, those expecting have gone through the roof, It's why I'm more critical of the leaders then manning who does deserve some as well 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RollsRoyce Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 The Prem for comparison. People will have different preferences, but I am most certainly looking at the top right quadrant. Liverpool/Spurs That is possibly why I enjoyed watching Leeds on Friday. Interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeh Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said: The Prem for comparison. People will have different preferences, but I am most certainly looking at the top right quadrant. Liverpool/Spurs That is possibly why I enjoyed watching Leeds on Friday. Interesting. I like watch 3 teams in the prem, arsenal, Liverpool and Brighton But I don't watch that often, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 56 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: He is in charge of the 1st team whatever his job title is, he has to deliver results like anybody else who is in charge. His remit is to deliver a more exciting style of football AND get results, that’s what I mean by the whole package. If not it’s on to the next reset. Yes, sorry. On the pitch of course you are correct. A proper 'manager' does so much more though. You would think that a father and son that wish to escape to Guernsey and Bermuda would appreciate someone like that. But no, they don't want to be here but still want to control everything. Unless of course it's a certain ex player that is the sole true problem. It isn't though. It's all three of them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) 58 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said: The Prem for comparison. People will have different preferences, but I am most certainly looking at the top right quadrant. Liverpool/Spurs That is possibly why I enjoyed watching Leeds on Friday. Interesting. EDIT - got that wrong!! The nearest club to us is Burnley, pretty much in an identical position on the graph. To people who think Manning is some kind of Pep clone these graphs show he is not even in the same postcode, style wise. Edited February 5 by Numero Uno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Hampton Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said: The squad is starting to have a bit of churn, hopefully not a recurring theme. Weimann should have been utilised through the middle more yes..I thought so in his first season even more when he made the great excellent yet unspotted by us early runs. Twine- hopefully back in 2 weeks. His longevity here who knows.. if it is merely loan with no option or no realistic option, not least as he us Cup tied then it is pointless and takes us back towards territory of signing for the sake of it. Bird is one I've been keen on for some time. Seems to be a technically and tactically sound youngish midfielder. With Championship experience, plus playing with Knight again. Dire is unfortunately named and until we see him play for us we really don't know. Hard to make a judgment either way..on paper seems to be young, quick and can play alont the front however he is an unknown quantity. Likewise Murphy who I doubt we'll see until next season, Stokes next season or later. TGH, I'm reasonably happy we signed him permanently, are you? Good room for growth too age wise. In respect of outgoings some risks IMO. 1) Conway and the lack of a new contract signed. 2) If say James, King and to a degree Williams (Weimann is already gone) leave at once that's a lot if experience and know-how. Wells is the only true senior pro? Naismith too I guess. 3) Pring. I'd say no dice as we don't need to sell and he has no Book Value as such being an Academyish Product but otoh a sale is pure profit...but if we don't need to sell then no IMO. TV money rising too will help all clubs but we could be or should be reasonably placed. Lastly Manning. Is he back 3 or back 4, it is hard to keep track..some of the ins and outs should point to a back 4, a return to 4-3-3 but he seems determined to go wirh the current shape which may not fully suit us. I do agree there are things of interest with the new loans and signings and a general feeling of expectancy. What’s yet to be seen is whether they will in reality, fit into Manning’s plan and whether he can actually manage them, plus the remaining players, towards success. I do find it hard is seeing the potential offload of so much experience by the summer. It may work but I just wonder if it’s all too much change too quickly. As I’ve said before, there’sa lot of value in standing still and taking stock, before rushing in to change what’s actually working. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, Numero Uno said: EDIT - got that wrong!! The nearest club to us is Burnley, pretty much in an identical position on the graph. To people who think Manning is some kind of Pep clone these graphs show he is not even in the same postcode, style wise. They'll be along soon to say he would be a Pep clone if he had his own players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) Found an article which we all recall Tinnion in early November. Worth reading again. https://www.pressreader.com/uk/western-daily-press/20231101/282153590978082 If we are aligned at various levels, if a new man isn't changing the ethos them why the hell did we switch to a back 3 again. Especially unsuited with Bell at wingback, McCrorie finding his way after lengthy illness, Naismith and Atkinson unavailable. Yes we know they chatted shit but this is worse...they appear to be fundamentally clueless too. Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lew-T Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 5 hours ago, ray savino said: Like it or lump it, that’s the choice we’ve got and always had. We can stick with following the team or not bother going down. Always been this way. Frustrating as it is, I know that I shall probably see my way to buying a season card for next year... more through heart, habit and hope than logic! What would soften the decision to buy my ticket and give me hope for next season? 1) A top 10 finish with signs that the new regime were turning the corner with more convincing attacking performances and more consistency. I think psychologically getting top 10 would be a clear progressive boost for the club and supporters. A platform to kick on. 2) A transition in style that does not rely on another ridiculous and over expensive churn of playing staff. Invest in a few/couple more quality key players to supplement a solid hard working squad (relatively expensive investment but not to put us up shit creek as before). Also we really do not have the cash for such a churn like before. 3) LM and staff to show more signs and vision to be be adaptable and pragmatic at times in developing his style to get results. Particularly to be more flexible and effective in changing tactics in game to bring results. If LM and the club can achieve this, then I believe it would start to reunite the fan base and create a less toxic, more positive atmosphere. I don’t want to be able to turn round and carry on spouting “I’ve heard it all before”, just want some hope but most of all some entertainment and the signs of some real success. Bonus: To beat Forest and get a nice little run in the cup. Be brave v Man Utd and give them a game (Beat them obviously). There. Not asking for too much is it. Or is it? That’s another thing that annoys me with this club. Why is it when the season looks like it’s over, we then look like a good side getting results. City then announce season ticket prices, we jump on it with excitement for the following season. Then it all comes crashing down. Repeat, repeat and repeat. We are that guy that always puts off going to the gym, there is always tomorrow sort of attitude… So frustrating. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) How does a big striker fit into this. Albeit big and quick can be potent tbh. Sykes and Twine can work..mix of craft and energy. Conway, Wells or big striker? Fullback or wingbacks? Two similar yet different positions. Quite a few loose ends to align the strategy. The recruitment itself seems okay, the wider planning seems very choppy. Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidercity1987 Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Davefevs said: I love the Analyst website. https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/08/championship-stats-2023-24-opta/ some really simple stats that when combined give a really good indicator of team style and effectiveness. this one is really simplistic, but if you were asked who most possession based teams were, or who the most direct were I don’t think too many people would look beyond the likes of Saints, Leicester and Hull at one end and Rotherham, Birmingham, Millwall at the other. I’d say Ipswich and Leeds are “front foot, attacking” teams, and they are in that top-right quadrant. 3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Just sticking these two together for a laugh Fuming 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearded_red Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Absolutely fuming reading this. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenkibby. Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, mason said: Same year for me mate but took myself and a couple of mates, love my club but hate what they have done to it. Must have been a good year. City 2/0 Leyton Orient. April 66 my first game. Amazing that the crowd was 10,000 at the level we are playing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 minutes ago, bearded_red said: Absolutely fuming reading this. You and me both. Fuming, baffled and frankly worried that the strategy is heading towards a mess again. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 3 minutes ago, bearded_red said: Absolutely fuming reading this. Not a surprise though, is it? Hard to believe a word Tinnion says. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Hampton Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 10 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Oh dear, oh dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP Hampton Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 2 hours ago, Monkeh said: The key thing Pearson did for me was lower fans expectations Sadly for manning due to those incompetent leaders we have to suffer with, those expecting have gone through the roof, It's why I'm more critical of the leaders then manning who does deserve some as well I think that’s really true a very pragmatic NP allowed us all to become realists, recognising what he had and the limits. I think that’s why we were able to see the bigger picture and settle our expectations. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 23 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: Doesn’t scream Liam Manning does it, whether you’ve watched City or not. It doesn’t even match Manning’s “I want to dominate possession”! 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: You and me both. Fuming, baffled and frankly worried that the strategy is heading towards a mess again. Goes to show, you can get an experienced head in to sort out deep rooted mis-management, but if it’s then handed over to a pair of idiots, it can turn to shit pretty quickly. Hopefully they don’t wreck all the heavy lifting done with the finances too. 8 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 By enhance the base I ironically think NP was on course to do that. Naismith and Scott in midfield in a 3, Some of those games also last third of the season we were on track to continue moving in that direction...IMO anyway. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) Okay here's my take in respect of enhance a style of play just assuming that NP is sacked which he shouldn't have been. You keep with the 4-3-3 and perhaps try to change the balance. Twine instead of Mehmeti leftish, perhaps in the fullness of time Bird as an extra ballplaying midfielder. Bird knows how to pass plus is good positionally. Until then Naismith I still think if fully fit would be in the 3 or should be atm. Conway central absolutely. You tweak and enhance with in the framework- McCrorie-Sykes right side might be better offensively than Tanner-Sykes e.g. Atkinson may carry out better than one of Dickie or Vyner albeit do either deserve to be dropped. Edited February 5 by Mr Popodopolous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W-S-M Seagull Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said: You and me both. Fuming, baffled and frankly worried that the strategy is heading towards a mess again. Good find. I've been banging the drum since before Manning was appointed that he didn't fit with what we said we were looking for and how I had concerns that would create a mess by dismantling a decent squad. I had/have huge concern about this lack of alignment between what we want and what Manning brings but apparently we are now well coached. Well coached in what? Passing the ball sideways and backwards? Those that claimed we are now well coached are now no where to be seen. Once the dust had settled about Pearson leaving my thoughts soon turned to his replacement. I would have had Lampard because his style more aligned with us than Mannings and seemed a more natural progression on from Pearson. My issue has always been that the plan has been ripped up. I had hoped Manning would adapt however the QPR game showed us it was all about Manning ball from now on. What I don't know if Tinnion knew what he was getting with Manning or if Manning bullshitted his way through the interview and then came in and did his own thing. I would probably air on the side of JL and Tinnion not understanding that Manning plays a different style to what they were looking for. I don't believe Manning was their 1st choice either. If a Seagull From W-S-M who shits on people and steals their chips could see all of this then its bloody worrying that JL and BT couldn't see it even with all the data they would have had available to them. Edited February 5 by W-S-M Seagull 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 5 Report Share Posted February 5 4 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said: Good find. I've been banging the drum since before Manning was appointed that he didn't fit with what we said we were looking for and how that would create a mess by dismantling a decent squad. I had/have huge concern about this lack of alignment between what we want and what Manning brings but apparently we are now well coached. Well coached in what? Passing the ball sideways and backwards? Those that claimed we are now well coached are now no where to be seen. Once the dust had settled about Pearson leaving my thoughts soon turned to his replacement. I would have had Lampard because his style more aligned with us than Mannings and seemed a more natural progression on from Pearson. My issue has always been that the plan has been ripped up. I had hoped Manning would adapt however the QPR game showed us it was all about Manning ball from now on. What I don't know if Tinnion knew what he was getting with Manning or if Manning bullshitted his way through the interview and then came in and did his own thing. I would probably air on the side of JL and Tinnion not understanding that Manning plays a different style to what they were looking for. I don't believe Manning was their 1st choice either. I think he was, hence why they acted when they did. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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