Sound of the city

[exAtyeoMax]

13 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, “back him or sack him”, 8 games isn’t gonna change your mind.  And I think Manning is too set in his ways to change anything dramatically.

Too many decisions to make between now and May, e.g. contracts of existing players, nail your summer targets, etc.  If you are gonna change, you’d want the new manager to have a bit of a look first.

Giving 8 games is the worst of both worlds.  But kinda fits perfectly the way decisions appear to be made at City.

I’m not sure whether the person who earlier used “farse” instead of “farce”, used it deliberately or not, but it seems a better spelling for City.

I'm worried that good squad players will leave because the club wants to keep LM.

It is a farse!

[Ian M]

32 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Well if he has got 8 games and the Gay chap was just giving an opinion, which is hardly outlandish is it, what will the club be expecting from those 8 games. if indeed they are even remotely considering a change. What can you see in those games you have not seen already? What I mean is that there is almost no chance we will see anything earth shattering in performances , as it seems we do not have the players to play his way. So imho, you can either decide you are going to go with Manning next season no matter what, or if you have doubts, it is far better to cut him out now and start looking and recruiting for a replacement. Waiting another 2 months is wasting time, as you will want a new person to start summer planning asap. Recruitment can be long winded too, and after this mess up, it will need to be done in a far more diligent and in depth manner too. 

So I do not get the 8 game stuff. If you are keeping Manning next season, then keep him. If you are in doubt after what you have seen so far, those 8 games will change nothing. Get rid now and start building. Getting rid at the end of the season would seem daft to me, and looks more like a forlorn hope something magical will happen so someone can avoid a big decision. 

I’d personally use the first few weeks to find a competent CEO and DoF to lead the search.

After all the shit they said at the time of Nige’s sacking, imagine how embarrassing it will be for the hierarchy if we don’t even match 22/23’s points tally

[Bristol Oil Services]

11 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Reading it the wrong way. They’re not saying it’s our fault . The atmosphere is like it because it’s been created by the clubs decisions 

Get it now, thanks for (patiently) explaining

[W-S-M Seagull]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, “back him or sack him”, 8 games isn’t gonna change your mind.  And I think Manning is too set in his ways to change anything dramatically.

Too many decisions to make between now and May, e.g. contracts of existing players, nail your summer targets, etc.  If you are gonna change, you’d want the new manager to have a bit of a look first.

Giving 8 games is the worst of both worlds.  But kinda fits perfectly the way decisions appear to be made at City.

I’m not sure whether the person who earlier used “farse” instead of “farce”, used it deliberately or not, but it seems a better spelling for City.

We could win the next 8 games and still I'll be of the opinion that Manning needs to go. 

For me there are things lacking in his management such as being unable to react or be pro active in game. He's not suddenly going to learn these things. 

Once you've lost the fanbase which he has then we all know its pretty impossible to recover from that. 

I don't know if he's lost the dressing room but there are cracks appearing. 

Ideally the club would get rid now. Get themselves out there and own up to their mistakes and take accountability and then we can all move on. 

We then have a little bit of time to make sure we make the correct appointment whilst giving him time to assess the squad in the remaining games so that he can make decisions on contracts etc and then plan for the summer. 

But what we'll do in my opinion is to carry on like this and then get rid at the end of the season where everything goes into a summer shutdown, sotc, podcasts etc and they won't have to come face to face with fans at games. 

When IG was talking about season ticket renewals he was trying to frame it as "well we once lost 3k and replaced them with 3k others so that will happen again" which is complete bullshit. In all my time of supporting this club I have never seen so many people say they will not renew. This isn't people that have only had a season ticket for a year or two. This is people that have had one for 20, 30 years etc. That's alarming. 

The only way this changes is if the club are pro active and make the change and to get fans excited about next season with the right appointment. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

6 minutes ago, Ian M said:

I’d personally use the first few weeks to find a competent CEO and DoF to lead the search.

After all the shit they said at the time of Nige’s sacking, imagine how embarrassing it will be for the hierarchy if we don’t even match 22/23’s points tally

The excuse has already been put out there by Manning "we have a lesser squad" 

[Ian M]

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

The excuse has already been put out there by Manning "we have a lesser squad" 

So he disagrees with his bosses that this is the best squad they’ve known at this club?

Thats awkward, this lot don’t particularly like it when managers disagree with them.

[glynriley]

24 minutes ago, Ian M said:

So he disagrees with his bosses that this is the best squad they’ve known at this club?

Thats awkward, this lot don’t particularly like it when managers disagree with them.

I’m not even sure why he would make the comment on the players who left, they were all gone before he arrived. 
 

He knew what his squad was,at least he should have, no point bleating about history. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 hours ago, One Team said:

I found the whole show compelling listening; I literally stopped what I was doing and just sat and listened.

There were many insightful, credible comments from Piercy and Owers, but this one from Piercy stood out the most. For a respected journalist who covers the club to come out publicly and say something as damning as this was incredible, but probably just underlined what many of us think.

If you’ve not listened to the show yet I thoroughly recommend you do. 

It is incredibly damning because Piercy has a lot of access to the club, so for him to be saying this should ring alarm bells. 

He's obviously sharing what he himself has noticed from either spending time at the ground/hpc and by talking to players and staff etc. 

From the outside we all know this but due to his access to the club he is sharing his own personal experiences. 

Last night's show should have sent shockwaves around the HPC this morning.

[luke_bristol]

An extremely damning hour or so of radio. For Owers and JP to speak so frankly and bleakly about the state of affairs at AG suggests there are very serious issues at the club.

[Gert Mare]

I’ve managed to listen this morning to SOTC from last night and agree that it was a very interesting and insightful debate.

Interested when Peircy talked about the whole atmosphere affecting feelings of supporters and players.

He also acknowledged that this whole debacle could have been better handled by the club. 

As I alluded to in another post elsewhere the club seem hell bent on creating a “them and us” divide between supporters and the board and I echo Piercy’s comments that Nigel was a figurehead who didn’t shirk from challenging comments, but also tried to get players and fans onboard by being authentic, honest, empathetic and displayed integrity.

Yes, he might have called out individuals, but he also was true to his word that if a player showed willingness to improve and be ready to knock on the door when the opportunity arose again that he would give them another chance and he was a man of his word, thus earning respect.

The board do not seem to grasp these qualities. Sometimes you need to call out negatives, but at the same time you balance it out by also giving credit for positive contributions. This creates motivation because the negatives are turned into learning opportunities and also provides accountability and people understand their responsibilities.

The board should have been truthful in the reasons for their dismissal of Nigel Pearson and whilst some supporters may not have liked it at least they would haven’t tried to fill in narratives in their own minds.

Instead they concocted a bizarre communication plan with wildly unrealistic aims and as Peircy indicated, it became the stick to beat the owners with as soon as things started to go wrong.

Manning was set up to fail and anything else would have been a bonus. A lot of this toxic feel around the club could have been avoided by the board simply showing some integrity.

Now they have nowhere to hide and will have to be held accountable due to stating that the squad is one of the best, top end, front foot, best chance of success this season blah, blah, blah - all because they blind-sided the supporters, threw Liam into a toxic cauldron and then ran away and hid.

Everything good they do is undone by the divide they create through spineless communication.

Bristol City can be successful, but only with strong leadership and those behaviours and stepping up and taking responsibility that Liam talks about starts at the very top and filters down throughout the club.

I’m sorry, but until these fundamental requirements change then we’re doomed to mediocrity at best and abject failure at worst.

 

Edited March 19 by Gert Mare

[exAtyeoMax]

8 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

I’ve managed to listen this morning to SOTC from last night and agree that it was a very interesting and insightful debate.

Interested when Peircy talked about the whole atmosphere affecting feelings of supporters and players.

He also acknowledged that this whole debacle could have been better handled by the club. 

As I alluded to in another post elsewhere the club seem hell bent on creating a “them and us” divide between supporters and the board and I echo Piercy’s comments that Nigel was a figurehead who didn’t shirk from challenging comments, but also tried to get players and fans onboard by being authentic, honest, empathetic and displayed integrity.

Yes, he might have called out individuals, but he also was true to his word that if a player showed willingness to improve and be ready to knock on the door when the opportunity arose again that he would give them another chance and he was a man of his word, thus earning respect.

The board do not seem to grasp these qualities. Sometimes you need to call out negatives, but at the same time you balance it out by also giving credit for positive contributions. This creates motivation because the negatives are turned into learning opportunities and also provides accountability and people understand their responsibilities.

The board should have been truthful in the reasons for their dismissal of Nigel Pearson and whilst some supporters may not have liked it at least they would haven’t tried to fill in narratives in their own minds.

Instead they concocted a bizarre communication plan with wildly unrealistic aims and as Peircy indicated, it became the stick to beat the owners with as soon as things started to go wrong.

Manning was set up to fail and anything else would have been a bonus. A lot of this toxic feel around the club could have been avoided by the board simply showing some integrity.

Now they have nowhere to hide and will have to be held accountable due to stating that the squad is one of the best, top end, front foot, best chance of success this season blah, blah, blah - all because they blind-sided the supporters, threw Liam into a toxic cauldron and then ran away and hid.

Everything good they do is undone by the divide they create through spineless communication.

Bristol City can be successful, but only with strong leadership and those behaviours and stepping up and taking responsibility that Liam talks about starts at the very top and filters down throughout the club.

I’m sorry, but until these fundamental requirements change then we’re doomed to mediocrity at best and abject failure at worst.

 

plus they besmirched the name of Dave Rennie. 

None of their crap was necessary. Why not just say we've reached the end of the line with Nige and we feel that the club wants to explore other avenues…blah blah blah. 'Kin' idiots 

[Sir Geoff]

Just finished listening and have to disagree with JP's assertion that LM isn't throwing players under the bus.

How is constantly saying we lack quality up front /going forward not throwing the likes of Tommy under the bus ?

[Gert Mare]

Just now, exAtyeoMax said:

plus they besmirched the name of Dave Rennie. 

None of their crap was necessary. Why not just say we've reached the end of the line with Nige and we feel that the club wants to explore other avenues…blah blah blah. 'Kin' idiots 

Exactly.

They didn’t tell the supporters due to a feared backlash as more and more people were beginning to notice a more positive feel around the club.

Their biggest mistake were the reasons they gave behind Nigel’s sacking and the timing. 

The sad thing is that despite their attempts to hide things it has come out in the wash anyway and ultimately it has made matters worse as a result.

 

[RollsRoyce]

13 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

I’ve managed to listen this morning to SOTC from last night and agree that it was a very interesting and insightful debate.

Interested when Peircy talked about the whole atmosphere affecting feelings of supporters and players.

He also acknowledged that this whole debacle could have been better handled by the club. 

As I alluded to in another post elsewhere the club seem hell bent on creating a “them and us” divide between supporters and the board and I echo Piercy’s comments that Nigel was a figurehead who didn’t shirk from challenging comments, but also tried to get players and fans onboard by being authentic, honest, empathetic and displayed integrity.

Yes, he might have called out individuals, but he also was true to his word that if a player showed willingness to improve and be ready to knock on the door when the opportunity arose again that he would give them another chance and he was a man of his word, thus earning respect.

The board do not seem to grasp these qualities. Sometimes you need to call out negatives, but at the same time you balance it out by also giving credit for positive contributions. This creates motivation because the negatives are turned into learning opportunities and also provides accountability and people understand their responsibilities.

The board should have been truthful in the reasons for their dismissal of Nigel Pearson and whilst some supporters may not have liked it at least they would haven’t tried to fill in narratives in their own minds.

Instead they concocted a bizarre communication plan with wildly unrealistic aims and as Peircy indicated, it became the stick to beat the owners with as soon as things started to go wrong.

Manning was set up to fail and anything else would have been a bonus. A lot of this toxic feel around the club could have been avoided by the board simply showing some integrity.

Now they have nowhere to hide and will have to be held accountable due to stating that the squad is one of the best, top end, front foot, best chance of success this season blah, blah, blah - all because they blind-sided the supporters, threw Liam into a toxic cauldron and then ran away and hid.

Everything good they do is undone by the divide they create through spineless communication.

Bristol City can be successful, but only with strong leadership and those behaviours and stepping up and taking responsibility that Liam talks about starts at the very top and filters down throughout the club.

I’m sorry, but until these fundamental requirements change then we’re doomed to mediocrity at best and abject failure at worst.

 

I rather think, and this is my view, that they actually believed what they were saying. Whilst that then became an extra burden for Manning, I am still of the opinion that Marshall, Tinnion and Jon L , possibly SL too, thought that a young coach would , with new ideas, more training, get a better performance from our squad. They were being honest. The trouble is, they were being superficial and making decisions without any of the 3/4 of them having anything but a fanciful idea about such matters . I almost wish they were saying blatant lies, maybe they did not highlight Nigel's health, but the rest of it,  for me, they really thought Manning was going to be the surprise package, 30 games to sneak into the play offs, Luton style, or Cooper at Forest. It was a reckless gamble, made out of hope rather than policy, disregarding all of the nuances of change that had occurred the previous years. 

They were not lying or being dishonest, just incompetent. 

[Gert Mare]

2 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Just finished listening and have to disagree with JP's assertion that LM isn't throwing players under the bus.

How is constantly saying we lack quality up front /going forward not throwing the likes of Tommy under the bus ?

Agreed. It’s just not calling out players individually by name.

It’s always failure to follow / execute the process - blaming players and failure to take some responsibility himself.

He needs to get the players onboard not alienate them. The players aren’t stupid and they read between the lines the same as we do.

This isn’t good and things won’t turn around whilst these comments continue to be made.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We could win the next 8 games and still I'll be of the opinion that Manning needs to go. 

For me there are things lacking in his management such as being unable to react or be pro active in game. He's not suddenly going to learn these things. 

Once you've lost the fanbase which he has then we all know its pretty impossible to recover from that. 

I don't know if he's lost the dressing room but there are cracks appearing. 

Ideally the club would get rid now. Get themselves out there and own up to their mistakes and take accountability and then we can all move on. 

We then have a little bit of time to make sure we make the correct appointment whilst giving him time to assess the squad in the remaining games so that he can make decisions on contracts etc and then plan for the summer. 

But what we'll do in my opinion is to carry on like this and then get rid at the end of the season where everything goes into a summer shutdown, sotc, podcasts etc and they won't have to come face to face with fans at games. 

When IG was talking about season ticket renewals he was trying to frame it as "well we once lost 3k and replaced them with 3k others so that will happen again" which is complete bullshit. In all my time of supporting this club I have never seen so many people say they will not renew. This isn't people that have only had a season ticket for a year or two. This is people that have had one for 20, 30 years etc. That's alarming. 

The only way this changes is if the club are pro active and make the change and to get fans excited about next season with the right appointment. 

I don’t disagree with any of that.

But we aren’t making the decision, we aren’t deciding whether to wear rose-tinited or shit-stained specs!  They (because it is openly becoming them and us) don’t see it like us.  They think it’s about results.  That’s how narrow-thinking they are over this.  And some fans think it’s just results.

Even last night Jon Ray mentioned me and my previous assertion of there not being anything to get the fans on their feet.  James P replied by rattling off games like Southampton.

But that missed the point of what I said, which is that our opponents are dictating how we play, and the default position of Manning at the mo’ is to block, to defend.  It is pretty much only through counterattack or pressing higher up that as fans we are seeing a semblance of excitement.  And both of those things are the opposite of Manning’s philosophy.  We don’t need to be hung-ho to play on the front foot, we need to be less Manningball.  The number of chances (opportunities to get the fans on their feet) created from true build up is staggeringly low versus chances from set-pieces, Counters and pressing high up.  He hasn’t realised that, or if he has, he is choosing to ignore it.

xG is boring as hell, yep, but…just look at Saturday.

First Half:

2 chances - both on the counter (Sykes after Conway cross breaks to him, Conway 1v1).

We did play some nice passing but it didn’t end up with any shots 

Second Half:

51 mins - a chance from a passing move, but required just 2 passes - Vyner 30 yard pass breaks the lines, finds Knight, drives forward, who finds Mehmeti, low chance shot from angle is blocked

25 mins until the next chance, still 0-2 down btw

76 mins - long clearance, Cornick gets in behind, holds it up, lays it off, eventually finding its way to McCrorie to screw wide

77 mins - high press, Twine wins it feeds Sykes on left, who shoots over on his left peg

77 mins - high press, straight from goal kick after Sykes shot, we win it, pass to TGH long shot is saved

86 mins - free kick, Twine shot blocked

86 mins - rebound to Tanner, shot from outside the box stings the keepers hands

90+2 mins - corner from Twine, headed onto top of bar by Sykes

Not one chance from patient build-up.

We are effective in the press, why not change the intent?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gert Mare]

2 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

I rather think, and this is my view, that they actually believed what they were saying. Whilst that then became an extra burden for Manning, I am still of the opinion that Marshall, Tinnion and Jon L , possibly SL too, thought that a young coach would , with new ideas, more training, get a better performance from our squad. They were being honest. The trouble is, they were being superficial and making decisions without any of the 3/4 of them having anything but a fanciful idea about such matters . I almost wish they were saying blatant lies, maybe they did not highlight Nigel's health, but the rest of it,  for me, they really thought Manning was going to be the surprise package, 30 games to sneak into the play offs, Luton style, or Cooper at Forest. It was a reckless gamble, made out of hope rather than policy, disregarding all of the nuances of change that had occurred the previous years. 

They were not lying or being dishonest, just incompetent. 

If that is the case then wholesale changes have to be made for the club to be successful.

The fallout simply cannot be the dismissal of Manning alone. As others have said, his tenure is simply a symptom and not the root cause.

[bearded_red]

5 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Just finished listening and have to disagree with JP's assertion that LM isn't throwing players under the bus.

How is constantly saying we lack quality up front /going forward not throwing the likes of Tommy under the bus ?

Yeah I disagreed with him here as well. He seemed to suggest that because he hadn’t been critical of individual players or blamed individual mistakes that he hadn’t therefore ‘thrown them under the bus’.

Now the small snippets of Liam Manning that I force myself to watch post game he is almost always distancing himself from the players, talking about how well they’d been set up and how well they’ve been coached. It’s clear this is piling blame on the players while letting everyone know that’s he’s doing a great job. 

But to be honest, with the exception of what Pearson was trying to build here, that’s the culture at this club as far as I can see. Everyone looking to go under the radar and shift blame elsewhere. No leadership and certainly no togetherness.

Right down to what has been abundantly clear since the Lee Johnson fiasco, that the ownership of this club see the fans at best as an irritation, at worst I actually think their view on us is much more hostile than that.

[RollsRoyce]

Just now, Gert Mare said:

If that is the case then wholesale changes have to be made for the club to be successful.

The fallout simply cannot be the dismissal of Manning alone. As others have said, his tenure is simply a symptom and not the root cause.

You are right. Absolutely right. 

Manning is a symptom, his football ideals are not what the club needed anyway, but there is a void of competence at the top, we have nobody at the club who knows what is required to create a successful team/club. These people fired, wholesale, the people we did have at the club who knew what that looked like. Instead of evolving and growing, they have taken the club backwards. Maybe they should look at the consistent presence of Tinnion (the recruitment team)  Jon L and Marshall, because those 3 need changing if any new manager or coach is to ever have any chance of success at this club. If the club were to be taken over, all 3 would be gone in an instant. Maybe that is what is going on, job preservation for the boys. 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

Agreed. It’s just not calling out players individually by name.

It’s always failure to follow / execute the process - blaming players and failure to take some responsibility himself.

He needs to get the players onboard not alienate them. The players aren’t stupid and they read between the lines the same as we do.

This isn’t good and things won’t turn around whilst these comments continue to be made.

Yes, very careful to not blame individuals, blame the team.  Never blames his tactic / game plan.

Weak leadership imho.

As for the comment from JP that LM said that “the players are lacking confidence”.  It is his job to build that confidence.  If your approach to each game is eroding that, effing change your approach.

I honestly can’t believe how lacking he is in innovation both pre-game and in-game.  He really is not a good example of modern, progressive, on-the-grass coach.

Edited March 19 by Davefevs

[exAtyeoMax]

8 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

I rather think, and this is my view, that they actually believed what they were saying. Whilst that then became an extra burden for Manning, I am still of the opinion that Marshall, Tinnion and Jon L , possibly SL too, thought that a young coach would , with new ideas, more training, get a better performance from our squad. They were being honest. The trouble is, they were being superficial and making decisions without any of the 3/4 of them having anything but a fanciful idea about such matters . I almost wish they were saying blatant lies, maybe they did not highlight Nigel's health, but the rest of it,  for me, they really thought Manning was going to be the surprise package, 30 games to sneak into the play offs, Luton style, or Cooper at Forest. It was a reckless gamble, made out of hope rather than policy, disregarding all of the nuances of change that had occurred the previous years. 

They were not lying or being dishonest, just incompetent. 

I think that's even more worrying. As JP said last night, they have an ideal but no ******* idea of how to accomplish it.  

I had a boss like that, moan and shout about someone not doing their job but when told exactly why they couldn't do it, said "I'm not interested in the nuts and bolts of it" idiot. You can't argue with idiots.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, exAtyeoMax said:

I think that's even more worrying. As JP said last night, they have an ideal but no ******* idea of how to accomplish it.  

I had a boss like that, moan and shout about someone not doing their job but when told exactly why they couldn't do it, said "I'm not interested in the nuts and bolts of it" idiot. You can't argue with idiots.

That is exactly what I’ve been saying for ages.  They’ve seem an “outcome” (Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Coventry, Ipswich, who have I missed), but no idea firstly how those clubs achieved it, nor secondly how they might replicate or thirdly how they might achieve it in their own way.

”get promotion with a young head-coach” is all they have…honestly!

[exAtyeoMax]

Just now, Davefevs said:

That is exactly what I’ve been saying for ages.  They’ve seem an “outcome” (Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Coventry, Ipswich, who have I missed), but no idea firstly how those clubs achieved it, nor secondly how they might replicate or thirdly how they might achieve it in their own way.

”get promotion with a young head-coach” is all they have…honestly!

I think GOs mentioned the Luton love in last night. WTF

[Merrick's Marvels]

32 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

None of their crap was necessary. Why not just say we've reached the end of the line with Nige and we feel that the club wants to explore other avenues…blah blah blah. 'Kin' idiots 

Incredible isn't it. 

Even if they'd said to him privately at some point this season "look, we want to go in a different direction next summer so won't be renewing your contract but thanks for the great job you've done", I reckon Nige (and staff) has enough integrity to keep doing his very best until the end of the season, take it on the chin and move on. No tantrums, hissy fits, resignations.

Just be honest and straightforward with him.

He'd have wanted to do the best job possible right to the very end, I reckon - for his players and for our club. That's the sort of bloke he is, I reckon.

The people running our club really didn't deserve him. 

And the sooner they're gone the better.  All of them.  

Edited March 19 by Merrick's Marvels

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

You are right. Absolutely right. 

Manning is a symptom, his football ideals are not what the club needed anyway, but there is a void of competence at the top, we have nobody at the club who knows what is required to create a successful team/club. These people fired, wholesale, the people we did have at the club who knew what that looked like. Instead of evolving and growing, they have taken the club backwards. Maybe they should look at the consistent presence of Tinnion (the recruitment team)  Jon L and Marshall, because those 3 need changing if any new manager or coach is to ever have any chance of success at this club. If the club were to be taken over, all 3 would be gone in an instant. Maybe that is what is going on, job preservation for the boys. 

It’s a culture of blame, paranoia and mistrust.

It appears like there are a close knit band of ‘informants’ with their own ‘self preservation/interest’ agendas, happy to scapegoat others to save their own skins.

This is again, very bad. Successful businesses are built on strong leadership, delegation of responsibility, collaboration and trust, not fear, mistrust and micromanagement.

[RollsRoyce]

2 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

It’s a culture of blame, paranoia and mistrust.

It appears like there are a close knit band of ‘informants’ with their own ‘self preservation/interest’ agendas, happy to scapegoat others to save their own skins.

This is again, very bad. Successful businesses are built on strong leadership, delegation of responsibility, collaboration and trust, not fear, mistrust and micromanagement.

This is why SL has to either sell the club, or make a radical change to his behaviour, withdraw his son, and his own interference and employ someone to build him a Premier league club.  But he owns it and has shown that ultimately, he uses it as a personal project, dare I say toy. 2 decades of playing fantasy football owner. He is arriving at the point where that is no longer sustainable. Sell it or put it in the hands of people with ability. For such a successful man, I am still astounded he has never really wanted to get to the Prem. If he did, he would have long ago stepped back and stopped the nepotism and jobs for Jon's mates. 

I would start with a ceo and a complete change to the recruitment team. The coach or manager will be easy after that. 

[Gert Mare]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That is exactly what I’ve been saying for ages.  They’ve seem an “outcome” (Luton, Brentford, Brighton, Coventry, Ipswich, who have I missed), but no idea firstly how those clubs achieved it, nor secondly how they might replicate or thirdly how they might achieve it in their own way.

”get promotion with a young head-coach” is all they have…honestly!

It certainly looks that way doesn’t it Dave?

@RollsRoyce Aligns with what you have said ins so much as they genuinely believe that they know what is best, but also highlights any insight or deep dive research.

Makes me think back to how ‘rigorous’ our ‘rigorous process’ has been in the past and seemingly repeated most recently with the ‘due diligence’ performed on Liam Manning prior to his appointment.

[Gert Mare]

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

This is why SL has to either sell the club, or make a radical change to his behaviour, withdraw his son, and his own interference and employ someone to build him a Premier league club.  But he owns it and has shown that ultimately, he uses it as a personal project, dare I say toy. 2 decades of playing fantasy football owner. He is arriving at the point where that is no longer sustainable. Sell it or put it in the hands of people with ability. For such a successful man, I am still astounded he has never really wanted to get to the Prem. If he did, he would have long ago stepped back and stopped the nepotism and jobs for Jon's mates. 

I would start with a ceo and a complete change to the recruitment team. The coach or manager will be easy after that. 

I agree.

The thing is I worry about their ability to sell to the right people based on their own track record of ‘rigorous process’ and ‘due diligence’!

[exAtyeoMax]

2 minutes ago, Gert Mare said:

It certainly looks that way doesn’t it Dave?

@RollsRoyce Aligns with what you have said ins so much as they genuinely believe that they know what is best, but also highlights any insight or deep dive research.

Makes me think back to how ‘rigorous’ our ‘rigorous process’ has been in the past and seemingly repeated most recently with the ‘due diligence’ performed on Liam Manning prior to his appointment.

They probably found out he was a friend of McKenna, so he must be good.

[fisherrich]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We could win the next 8 games and still I'll be of the opinion that Manning needs to go. 

For me there are things lacking in his management such as being unable to react or be pro active in game. He's not suddenly going to learn these things. 

Once you've lost the fanbase which he has then we all know its pretty impossible to recover from that. 

I don't know if he's lost the dressing room but there are cracks appearing. 

Ideally the club would get rid now. Get themselves out there and own up to their mistakes and take accountability and then we can all move on. 

We then have a little bit of time to make sure we make the correct appointment whilst giving him time to assess the squad in the remaining games so that he can make decisions on contracts etc and then plan for the summer. 

But what we'll do in my opinion is to carry on like this and then get rid at the end of the season where everything goes into a summer shutdown, sotc, podcasts etc and they won't have to come face to face with fans at games. 

When IG was talking about season ticket renewals he was trying to frame it as "well we once lost 3k and replaced them with 3k others so that will happen again" which is complete bullshit. In all my time of supporting this club I have never seen so many people say they will not renew. This isn't people that have only had a season ticket for a year or two. This is people that have had one for 20, 30 years etc. That's alarming. 

The only way this changes is if the club are pro active and make the change and to get fans excited about next season with the right appointment. 

What makes you so sure the Lansdowns will make the correct appointment. I have zero confidence in them.