Max O'Leary super keeper (or not)

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Supersonic Robin said:

FWIW, I think Max's resilience across his time at the club is commendable. As a player who has served years as a back-up and had a season as our first choice Championship goalkeeper, I think he can be considered a success of the academy.

Yep, brilliant really isn’t it?

And to think Wollacott has had a decent pro career too.

[Cowshed]

5 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

I wanted to start a new thread on this, not so much Max himself but the tactics of the distribution.

I don't quite understand the passing to the wings, it seems to me that it has a low success percentage, but it has been used by successive managers and goalkeepers. 

If the ball is over hit possession is given away, if it is under hit, you run the risk of an interception that takes the receiving player out of the defensive shape. That's before you have the issue of the likes of Bell and Mehmeti trying win the ball in the air. It's not so bad with Ross and Cam playing, but it still requires a degree of accuracy that few goalkeepers possess. 

Then you have the situation last night where, having made two good blocks and having the crowd calling his name, obviously gets a rush of adrenalin and hoofs the ball a mile out of play.

I don't quite see what the advantage is compared to playing through the middle, unless any of the coaches on here can explain it to me?

The passing to the what are wide positions is due to the intent of the team, they are part of the build up patterns as an out ball. The low success % playing to flanks (30 -35M) is still more advantageous than playing longer centrally (+40m) where the % success for O'leary is notably very low  and the risk from lost possession increases. In possession the team is opening out, numerical superiority is conceded centrally and if the ball is then played centrally the team is in a very poor position to defend against a counter attack.

In regards to accuracy its a competency you would expect a keeper in a  possession based team to have. O'leary's passing range (length x variety of pass) and its accuracy is on the low side, and very low v Keepers playing in teams playing out through the thirds.

[Fuber]

He's slightly inconsistent.

But it's worth pointing out that, rather than age, for the period in his career he is at that he actually doesn't have that many first team appearances. Inconsistency would reflect that, Imo.

[LondonBristolian]

For me, it comes down to two questions:

1) is the goalkeeper where I’d want us to spend (inevitably finite) resources over the summer?

2) if we did spend money on a goalkeeper, am I confident any player we bring in will be a significant upgrade on Max?

I would answer “no” to both questions. I’d rather we focused our resources on the best striker and creative midfielder we could attract and I think we would inevitably bring in either an upcoming keeper from a less high standard of league, a promising player from a premier league u-23 team, or someone not getting games at a championship club. In all cases, I’d not be confident they would be better than Max. 

You could argue we need greater competition but that very much depends on Manning’s view of Bajic and I have no idea what that view is, or what level Bajic is currently at.

Don’t get me wrong - I’d happily take Ederson, Allison or even Pickford if they’re about to come available and ready to move to BS3 on 10% of their wage due to their secret burning ambitions to play  for Bristol City but, in the absence of that scenario, I simply don’t see upgrading on Max as a priority.

[UREDS_91]

My main issue with Max is for all of the excellent saves he makes. He makes some equally questionable passes/mistakes.

For example, on Tuesday. A brilliant save with his legs, to then follow up with a simple collection which he nearly parried out to an opponent. 
 

in short, is fine for what we need in the mid-championship level. Not a top champ team keeper for me. 

[MelksRed]

The guy has made saves that have been as good as a goal at the other end. We have points we otherwise wouldn't have had due to his performances. 

Yes, distribution is at times lacking (this genuinely annoys me)...and yes, He is prone to a moment of madness (as all keepers are). 

People have seemingly forgotten that Max ousted Bents from the sticks whilst he was still here. Maybe due to a character clash with NP, maybe not.

Given the choice between spending money on a striker or Keeper..I'd keep Max and spend on being more clinical at the other (business) end of the pitch.

In short, he continues to grow in strength and stature for me.

Edited February 15 by MelksRed

[SydneyCity]

Keeper is an insane position.

You could be one of the best keepers in the league but still not play as you’re not THE best at your club. 

I rate Max a lot… but for all we know Bajic may be even better. Someone in France felt he was the best at his age - and the French know football. Hopefully he’s providing solid competition for Max.

Let’s be honest, we were all a little bit doubtful when Max stepped in for Bents, but he’s done very well.

[reddogkev]

Amazing to think he's been at City since 2013.  He is now without a doubt good enough to be our number 1.

Before this season I had doubts about whether he would make it at this level, but I don't have those doubts anymore.  He's a quality keeper and will be even better next year.

I also feel that Bajic should have played some first team games to see his ability.  Not to replace Max, but to see if he's also good enough for this level, otherwise it does seem like a waste of a salary.

Being a number 2 keeper and never playing must be the most frustrating thing on the planet.

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

For me, it comes down to two questions:

1) is the goalkeeper where I’d want us to spend (inevitably finite) resources over the summer?

2) if we did spend money on a goalkeeper, am I confident any player we bring in will be a significant upgrade on Max?

I would answer “no” to both questions. I’d rather we focused our resources on the best striker and creative midfielder we could attract and I think we would inevitably bring in either an upcoming keeper from a less high standard of league, a promising player from a premier league u-23 team, or someone not getting games at a championship club. In all cases, I’d not be confident they would be better than Max. 

You could argue we need greater competition but that very much depends on Manning’s view of Bajic and I have no idea what that view is, or what level Bajic is currently at.

Don’t get me wrong - I’d happily take Ederson, Allison or even Pickford if they’re about to come available and ready to move to BS3 on 10% of their wage due to their secret burning ambitions to play  for Bristol City but, in the absence of that scenario, I simply don’t see upgrading on Max as a priority.

Man City could easily get an upgrade to Edersons modest shot stopping ability.

His passing ability? No. Not only does Ederson skills base fit Man City's key possession principle he advances the sub principles as to how they will play e.g. width and extreme depth and playing positionally.

Man City made a compromise to advance their football by putting a exceptional talent with the ball at his feet in one of the fundamental positions for a team playing possession and positional football.

 

[SydneyCity]

29 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

Being a number 2 keeper and never playing must be the most frustrating thing on the planet.

It must be. There’s a thing over here in Australia with swimmers. You could be the fifth best swimmer in the world, but nobody will ever know because you’re not the fourth best swimmer in Australia, and will never make an international squad. Regionals, yes. But no Nationals, no Commonwealths, no Olympics, even though you could still beat almost everyone in the world given the chance.

Keepers are a rare breed.

[95red]

L1 keeper / bottom half championship  keeper  ,if we seriously  want to push on next season  we need an upgrade . 

 

[CityCiderEd]

A new keeper for competition is probably a good idea. But a keeper should be at the bottom of our priorities now. 

 Bentley was a great shot stopper but used to frighten me to death from crosses into our box and our defence were never sure if he would deal with it. Max is the total opposite and the defenders are more than comfortable with him dealing with high balls. His shot stopping is as good as Bentleys was and his command of his 6 yard box is far superior. 

When I listened to Shay Given talk about him saying what a good keeper he was only confirmed what I think.

[Three Lions]

18 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Max’s data compared to all Championship keepers:

All of you typical technical goalkeeping stuff he’s pretty much better than average.

Passing lets him down.

passing lets him down. This is a passing team???

[transfer reader]

20 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

The issue, and it’s OTIB in a nutshell, is he makes a mistake and gets labelled by a few idiots as  “the in goal” so when he has a good game other posters rush to his defence more or less labelling him “Prime Buffon”. He’s not a League 1 keeper and he won’t be leaving for a regular game in the Prem either.

The question for me is that if we are serious about being top end does he need GENUINE competition for his place like everyone else and not just “cover”.

Very rarely does anyone go overboard with the criticism, but extremely often his fan club will go overboard with praise.

 

The Leeds game was a prime example.

Pretending he was world class because Leeds forwards were hitting the ball right at him.

[GrahamC]

2 hours ago, reddogkev said:

Amazing to think he's been at City since 2013.  He is now without a doubt good enough to be our number 1.

Before this season I had doubts about whether he would make it at this level, but I don't have those doubts anymore.  He's a quality keeper and will be even better next year.

I also feel that Bajic should have played some first team games to see his ability.  Not to replace Max, but to see if he's also good enough for this level, otherwise it does seem like a waste of a salary.

Being a number 2 keeper and never playing must be the most frustrating thing on the planet.

Re Bajic, I don’t agree that we should have just randomly picked him a few times simply to see what he’s like.

This division is brutal & we can’t afford to play anything other than what we think is our best team (which includes Max, if fit) at all times.

Only Pat Mountain & the coaching staff know how good he is, a full season of sitting on the bench isn’t much fun, so it appears that he’s going to look to move on this summer.

[Grey Fox]

I remember a few years back when he , due ti injuries, got put in to the team to play Brentford away. The City fans , in the tiny Griffin Park, were chanting his name from the first minute to give him the best support we could. Clean sheet and , if I remember correctly, a 1-0 win.

[Numero Uno]

1 hour ago, transfer reader said:

Very rarely does anyone go overboard with the criticism, but extremely often his fan club will go overboard with praise.

 

The Leeds game was a prime example.

Pretending he was world class because Leeds forwards were hitting the ball right at him.

He was called a clown and slagged off recently when he conceded that late equaliser at Coventry which was an error no two ways about it. I may have missed it but I have never seen him called World Class or even Prem Class on here.

What I will say in Max’s defence is he does have resilience and by that I mean he doesn’t follow up a mistake or below average game with three poor ones in a row. Even for an average Championship keeper that’s a good trait to have.

[wheretheheartis]

Max, in golfing terms hits the ball 300 yards + a great ball striker but sometimes hits the ball to long for the wide players. Positives are, he's a good shot stopper, he's good on the ball and he's got great awareness, he's like an extra sweeper. Negatives, I don't think he's great from crosses but overall, very good championship keeper. 

[Roger Red Hat]

2 hours ago, 95red said:

L1 keeper / bottom half championship  keeper  ,if we seriously  want to push on next season  we need an upgrade . 

 

Please list all the better champ keepers.

[Davefevs]

6 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I’d happily take Ederson, Allison or even Pickford

Made me hum the Beautiful South:

Ederson, Alison, Phillips, Sue, Deborah, Annabel, too
I forget your name

[Cole Not Gas]

I don't know about 'marmite'(?) but when you have dozens, or maybe a hundred, people commenting on a single player one is always going to get a variety of opinions but i don't think many love or grossly dislike him. After a bad mistake he will get comments as with the many times he gets MoM.

For me he didnt come off his line enough at the start of the season, but like other players has grown in confidence and performance since Liam started coaching them. His distribution is generally good but going out wide regularly, as instructed, will have a % going into touch. This only happened once v Saints and i recall several good kicks to Pring winning the ball and setting up an attack in other games.

Overall 7-8/10 so if he keeps improving, wont need to be replaced. I agree with Major.

A bigger concern is what happens if he's injured; i know nothing about his replacement

[TommyD68]

I think this is easily Maxs best period in the team and it’s the happiest I’ve felt about the position in a long time. Every player regardless of their position has pros and cons, people seem to bash Max for his distribution yet people used to moan when Bentley slowed things down and lumped a ‘safe’ ball up the field. Max tries to play out and find players, it’s now always going to pay off but a lot of the time he finds his man and gets us on the front foot- the outball to Pring for example. I think he’s had a great season and has saved us on numerous occasions this season, if you’ll pardon the pun. Certainly not an area I’d be looking to replace in the Summer, maybe an experienced number 2 on the bench as cover but no more than that.