The elephant in the room

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

But Pearson was given 3 years, not just the 18 games at the end. I would hope we have learned that chopping and changing managers does not usually work and it's not as if we need to panic as barring an unlikely set of results we are safe this season, perhaps if we were in relegation trouble your suggestion would carry more merit.

The first 2 and a bit years of Pearsons reign can be disregarded. 

This season Pearson and Manning have had the same squad. Results have not got better, we've regressed. 

This is with Manning having greater player availability too. 

My post is me talking about is Manning the correct guy to take us forward and based on what we've seen, do we want to take the gamble of giving him a summer. 

4 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

Ummm… Mark Ashton was the key factor here, not LJ or Holden.

Now I know you're Bristol Sport. 

[Super]

10 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can keep trying to frame this as me having an agenda and that it's all about Nigel Pearson as much as you like. It doesn't make it true Tim. That shows your own agenda doesnt it? All you're trying to do is to create a smokescreen because you don't like the uncomfortable truths being spoken about. So you have to try and attack and belittle me in order to try to get me to stop talking about them.

Why do you and others like you have an inability to accept that fans have a genuine concern with how the club is run from the top down? Why is that an alien concept for you? Why does football fans caring about the club they pay to support, bother you so much? 

Once Pearson went I quickly moved on to who the replacement would be. From day one I said Manning was the wrong replacement and after 18 league games that opinion of mine has got even more robust. 

It was OK of course for me to be pissed off with JL, BT and GM about the ridiculous decision to sack a manager after a defeat to Ipswich and defeat to Cardiff with barely 11 fit first team players and to then also have a separate opinion on the replacement. 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But for some reason to you they are. 

Had we of appointed a manager that fitted the squad we have and then improved us, I'd not be posting this thread. 

I'm talking about the here and the now and the position we find ourselves in. My general observations is the only ones that keep talking about Pearson is those who were anti Pearson. 

It's hard to take posts like yours seriously when it's clear it's dripping in bias around your dislike for the previous manager. You want Manning to be a success because you want to be right about Pearson. I want Manning to be a success because I want success for Bristol City. That's the difference. 

Can we please stop with this bs about none of us actually thought we had a top 6 side. You're using that to play down Mannings underwhelming record. 

I posted a poll on here on Aug 3rd asking where posters where they think we'd finish

Here's the results -

Automatic - 1.82%

Play offs - 23.36% 

7th - 12th - 65.69%

13th - 21st - 8.76%

Relegation - 0.36%

The vast majority expected an improvement on last season. 

 

Please feel free to go back and look at the comments.

Why are you comparing Pearsons start here with Mannings? It's an incompatible comparison. 

It's already been discussed in this thread. Pearson came in and we were possibly heading for relegation with a shite squad that had many issues. The expectations were different. 

Manning came in and he had an oven ready squad to take it forward. He's failed to do that. Everything was in place for him to do that. He didn't need to come in and build a culture or improve the squad's fitness etc. It was all there. It does you no favours trying to suggest the two situations were similar when in fact it was night and day. The fact you're suggesting they are similar says a lot about your agenda. 

This is the team that played in the game Vs Boro when Pearson took over

Bentley - Kalas - Mariappa- Vyner - Towler - Nagy - Bakinson - Palmer - Hunt - Wells - Diedhiou 

To suggest that team is better than the one we have now to try and get the violins out for Manning is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read on here. Once again, I have to ask myself why are you saying that team is better? When it clearly wasn't. 

Pearson earned the right to have a pre season. All of us accepted that we needed to undergo a rebuild and patience was required. 

Most of us will agree that Pearson was successful with the rebuild at the same time as avoiding ffp punishment. 

Why are you providing random blocks of games in entirely different circumstances? Did Nigel have that oven ready squad then? No, so it's irrelevant. 

The only blocks relevant is this sesson once the reset had happened. 

This season 

Pearson

1st block of 9 - 12 points 3 wins

Next 5 games - 6 points 2 wins. Some may want to include the win Vs Sheffield Wed in that. 

You often ignore the context of how we had lots of injuries etc. 

Manning

1st block of 9 - 14 points 4 wins

2nd block of 9 - 9 points 2 wins

You also ignore the context that Manning has had greater squad availability. 

You can try and frame me as being biased all you want. But the cold hard facts are posted above which show that rather than me being biased, it's infact yourself. 

My post was about Manning and the future of Bristol City, you've made it about Pearson. Go figure. 

P.s I very clearly said in my post that the elephant in the room is about the summer. That doesn't get discussed on here. 

WTF are you on about you turn everything into a  Pearson v Manning debate. It's boring now. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, Super said:

WTF are you on about you turn everything into a  Pearson v Manning debate. It's boring now. 

What I said to Tim applies to you too. 

My post was about Manning. No mention of Pearson. Yet here you are talking about Pearson. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

9 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I think you have a very strange obsession. Genuinely, I think you need to take a step back and reflect on your mindset because it’s really quite bizarre.

If wanting Bristol City to be successful is a strange obsession then I'm happy to have that strange obsession. 

I'm not quite sure how calling out below par performances is a bizarre mindset. I'd suggest its actually a high performance mindset to not accept mediocrity. 

[RollsRoyce]

10 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

I think you have a very strange obsession. Genuinely, I think you need to take a step back and reflect on your mindset because it’s really quite bizarre.

I think he makes interesting points, but you keep dragging him back to talk about Pearson. That is also bizarre, as the topic has zero to do with Pearson. 

[George Rs]

1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said:

No problem, you know the drill, if you say something be prepared to justify it!

I’ve said elsewhere that I quite liked our January window. I had a problem with the Twine signing as it was just expensive vanity to get us a couple of places higher. It appears from limited evidence that Medube may not be up to it so no harm done. Bird I think looks good business and he’s been on radar (at least with @Mr Popodopolous!) long term as has Murphy. Stokes I agree Manning is the deciding factor - Tommy Widdrington confirmed in an interview this week that LM coached him previously. But the fact is that two of those are looking at an enormous step up and are punts at best, so we’ve only got one real first team signing confirmed in Bird. That means to shape LMs side the way he wants, we will have to spend money so we’re back to the question of how good an idea that is.

Id have to disagree on the management of games, and even a lot of “pro” LM posters have noted it could be better. You’ve missed from your list a load where IMO it’s been sub par (takes breath) including Millwall, Boro (H), QPR (A), Preston, Soton (A), Birmingham….we can agree to disagree but it’s been pretty glaring so far I’d say and it is an issue for him. It’s the thing that’ll do him in more than anything else and as long as the concern remains I’d be reticent to give him significant funds.

Yep there’s been some obvious poor at best examples as well, no doubt about it. I would say my opinions are coupled with a hearty amount impatience which will probably show some flaws but overall I feel;

I don’t think we at risk of going down under Manning 

In his tenure he has shown an ability to go into the game as the “underdogs” and win (West Ham, Southampton, should’ve happened at Forest (A) as well) 

Has shown he can improve players (Williams, bell etc) 

No matter the opponent keeps us in games (only lost 1 by a margin of more then 1 goal) 

There are other plus points as well as some negative ones of course. But imo i think based on them he deserves a pre-season and a couple of his own signings. Not loads as I agree with your point that come November it could all be different and we would’ve repeated that previous poor decision making. But 2 maybe 3 players of proven championship quality? Especially if Tommy were to go. 
 

Might read this and think I sound slightly naive, there’s a good chance I will as well , I would just love some success for a change and think we have a good a chance as any with Manning at the helm and with the make up of the league next season. 

[Davefevs]

5 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

I disagree with your last point.  A striker can help create chances for others and bring others into play more. We don’t have that type of striker right now 

Right now, we don’t play through or off of a central striker, so their involvement (generalisation) is predominantly to get on the end of chances.  If any striker isn’t fed because they’re screened by a low block, it doesn’t matter how good they are (that’s me trying to be simple).

If however you think Manning might change his approach if we had a different striker, then maybe.  But I’m struggling to agree based on what I’ve seen from LM and what he’s said about his “one up top”.  Think we are gonna have to wait until the summer and preseason to find out whether a different type will be a game-changer.

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

I think he makes interesting points, but you keep dragging him back to talk about Pearson. That is also bizarre, as the topic has zero to do with Pearson. 

It's a continued frustration of mine. 

There are certain posters that always bring it back to Pearson. Why they do that, I don't quite know. So I then respond to them and that gives the illusion I'm always talking about Pearson when in fact I'm just responding to it. 

I'm trying to focus on the here and the now and the not too distant future but time and time again it always gets brought back to Pearson. 

Edited February 21 by W-S-M Seagull

[RollsRoyce]

 

13 minutes ago, Super said:

WTF are you on about you turn everything into a  Pearson v Manning debate. It's boring now. 

He was not talking about Pearson until someone dragged it up. It is about the future not the past and has been interesting. If you are bored, just block him or do not read the thread. It is a forum for opinions. It is very evident that some get personal, and start using **** or WTF when they are unable to cope with an opinion that is not their own. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, George Rs said:

Yep there’s been some obvious poor at best examples as well, no doubt about it. I would say my opinions are coupled with a hearty amount impatience which will probably show some flaws but overall I feel;

I don’t think we at risk of going down under Manning 

In his tenure he has shown an ability to go into the game as the “underdogs” and win (West Ham, Southampton, should’ve happened at Forest (A) as well) 

Has shown he can improve players (Williams, bell etc) 

No matter the opponent keeps us in games (only lost 1 by a margin of more then 1 goal) 

There are other plus points as well as some negative ones of course. But imo i think based on them he deserves a pre-season and a couple of his own signings. Not loads as I agree with your point that come November it could all be different and we would’ve repeated that previous poor decision making. But 2 maybe 3 players of proven championship quality? Especially if Tommy were to go. 
 

Might read this and think I sound slightly naive, there’s a good chance I will as well , I would just love some success for a change and think we have a good a chance as any with Manning at the helm and with the make up of the league next season. 

Bell started the season quite well under NP at least in respect of goals. I'd also say the run of injuries to Williams abating is also a useful factor and a benefit for whoever is manager.

Just checked, Bell got 4 goals by the end of September.

Now if the all-round game and tactical side are improving that is to the credit of Manning but young players can develop as well.

Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[George Rs]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Bell started the season quire well under NP at least in respect of goals and assists, I'd also say the run of injuries to Williams abating is also a useful factor and a benefit for whoever is manager.

Oh I agree Bell started the season well, his raw traits makes him very useful on the counter, which made him very useful under Pearson. 
 

When Manning came in and for the most part we switched to this more methodical slower build up he became less effective very quickly and I struggled to see how that would change, since then and especially over the last month I feel he’s improved in a variety of areas that I think our down to Manning. 
 

Williams still played 38 games last season and 11 this season under Pearson, plenty of time to show progression imo which didn’t happen until Manning arrived and he’s gone basically from strength to strength since. 

Edited February 21 by George Rs

[JAWS]

One thing is for sure & that is lansclown has (needlessly) divided what was recently a pretty united fan base  and it's not the first time! 

[Ivorguy]

8 hours ago, Tomo said:

Let's hope that the start of MK Dons 22/23 season is not replicated for us in 24/25

Quote: 'Following an awful start to the season that found his side in the relegation zone, Manning was sacked on 11 December 2022 having accumulated just fifteen points from twenty matches, six points from safety and only off the bottom on goal difference'

 

My fear too.  As they say another LJ

[Superjack]

I think people should give @W-S-M Seagull a break. Yes, he's pro-Pearson, but that doesn't mean that whenever he expresses concern about Manning, he isn't doing it objectively. 

I don't think that he is "always dragging things back to Pearson" at all. 

I will though. Because his sacking was a ****ing disgrace.

[And Its Smith]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Right now, we don’t play through or off of a central striker, so their involvement (generalisation) is predominantly to get on the end of chances.  If any striker isn’t fed because they’re screened by a low block, it doesn’t matter how good they are (that’s me trying to be simple).

If however you think Manning might change his approach if we had a different striker, then maybe.  But I’m struggling to agree based on what I’ve seen from LM and what he’s said about his “one up top”.  Think we are gonna have to wait until the summer and preseason to find out whether a different type will be a game-changer.

I remember a fair few long balls up to Conway and Wells and then we lose possession. 

[Natchfever]

23 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

I think he makes interesting points, but you keep dragging him back to talk about Pearson. That is also bizarre, as the topic has zero to do with Pearson. 

Well said.

People mention the previous manager and when wsm responds they are accused of having an obsession.

He doesnt rate Manning.

Pearson is history.

Possibly another shit appointment but time will tell. Time (and budget I suspect) will be afforded to the current HC but he should be open to scrutiny.

[Davefevs]

@Tim Monaghan 

Gavin Marshall mentioned Promotion this season in his itv (Ross someone) interview.  

Jon Lansdown mentioned Promotion this season in his Joe Sims interview.

You can imply top 6 from these two because you can’t get promoted by finishing 7th or below.  And I think most of us would accept top 6 / playoffs even if we didn’t get promoted.  That would be a grand effort.

Jon Lansdown mentioned top-end in his club interview.

Brian Tinnion mentioned top-end in his club interview.  He’s the smart one, he never mentioned it at all!!!

How you want to take these second two is subjective, so in some respects we might as well ignore their ambiguity.  But people are clinging to a notion that it was never mentioned as an easy dig at WSM (and others).

+++++

So my preference is that we stop using “they never said playoffs or promotion” as a defence, because they actually did.  But I don’t make the rules, nor do I enforce them, so each to his own.  But anyone that does undermines their argument imho.  However I’d also prefer that we don’t posts about holding them to it either, because Jon Lansdown also said words to the effect that “not getting promoted isn’t a reason to sack either”.

So, Manning won’t be sacked based on that objective alone.

But his success / failure can be judged in many ways.  Ultimately it will be the Board’s evaluation and judgment, not us fans.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I remember a fair few long balls up to Conway and Wells and then we lose possession. 

So do I, but the point is, that’s not how Manning is trying to play.  It’s done out of necessity, not design.

[Robbored]

Just now, Natchfever said:

Possibly another shit appointment but time will tell. Time (and budget I suspect) will be afforded to the current HC but he should be open to scrutiny.

Every manager is open to scrutiny - it goes with the job. The press, the fans and the owners all assessing how the job is going.

We all know that every managerial appointment is a gamble - there is was no guaranteed success strategy.

[George Rs]

1 minute ago, Gaseater said:

His sacking wasn’t a disgrace, he was the 2nd longest serving manager in the league and there were plenty of occasions where he could’ve been sacked previously, Pearson said so himself. The sacking was harsh and the lack of investment after Scott sale shows the club didn’t feel he was going to be here long term - harsh but fair. I liked Pearson and think he did a good job in rebuilding the club, but he also failed to get the best out of a number of players who are now improving under Manning. I would’ve loved the Pearson from 10 years ago, but thaT  wasn’t to be….the notion that his sacking was “a disgrace” is well OTT though. 

@W-S-M Seagull and apparently your the obsessed one

[Tim Monaghan]

17 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

You can keep trying to frame this as me having an agenda and that it's all about Nigel Pearson as much as you like. It doesn't make it true Tim. That shows your own agenda doesnt it? All you're trying to do is to create a smokescreen because you don't like the uncomfortable truths being spoken about. So you have to try and attack and belittle me in order to try to get me to stop talking about them.

Why do you and others like you have an inability to accept that fans have a genuine concern with how the club is run from the top down? Why is that an alien concept for you? Why does football fans caring about the club they pay to support, bother you so much? 

Once Pearson went I quickly moved on to who the replacement would be. From day one I said Manning was the wrong replacement and after 18 league games that opinion of mine has got even more robust. 

It was OK of course for me to be pissed off with JL, BT and GM about the ridiculous decision to sack a manager after a defeat to Ipswich and defeat to Cardiff with barely 11 fit first team players and to then also have a separate opinion on the replacement. 

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. But for some reason to you they are. 

Had we of appointed a manager that fitted the squad we have and then improved us, I'd not be posting this thread. 

I'm talking about the here and the now and the position we find ourselves in. My general observations is the only ones that keep talking about Pearson is those who were anti Pearson. 

It's hard to take posts like yours seriously when it's clear it's dripping in bias around your dislike for the previous manager. You want Manning to be a success because you want to be right about Pearson. I want Manning to be a success because I want success for Bristol City. That's the difference. 

Can we please stop with this bs about none of us actually thought we had a top 6 side. You're using that to play down Mannings underwhelming record. 

I posted a poll on here on Aug 3rd asking where posters where they think we'd finish

Here's the results -

Automatic - 1.82%

Play offs - 23.36% 

7th - 12th - 65.69%

13th - 21st - 8.76%

Relegation - 0.36%

The vast majority expected an improvement on last season. 

 

Please feel free to go back and look at the comments.

Why are you comparing Pearsons start here with Mannings? It's an incompatible comparison. 

It's already been discussed in this thread. Pearson came in and we were possibly heading for relegation with a shite squad that had many issues. The expectations were different. 

Manning came in and he had an oven ready squad to take it forward. He's failed to do that. Everything was in place for him to do that. He didn't need to come in and build a culture or improve the squad's fitness etc. It was all there. It does you no favours trying to suggest the two situations were similar when in fact it was night and day. The fact you're suggesting they are similar says a lot about your agenda. 

This is the team that played in the game Vs Boro when Pearson took over

Bentley - Kalas - Mariappa- Vyner - Towler - Nagy - Bakinson - Palmer - Hunt - Wells - Diedhiou 

To suggest that team is better than the one we have now to try and get the violins out for Manning is probably the most ridiculous thing I've read on here. Once again, I have to ask myself why are you saying that team is better? When it clearly wasn't. 

Pearson earned the right to have a pre season. All of us accepted that we needed to undergo a rebuild and patience was required. 

Most of us will agree that Pearson was successful with the rebuild at the same time as avoiding ffp punishment. 

Why are you providing random blocks of games in entirely different circumstances? Did Nigel have that oven ready squad then? No, so it's irrelevant. 

The only blocks relevant is this sesson once the reset had happened. 

This season 

Pearson

1st block of 9 - 12 points 3 wins

Next 5 games - 6 points 2 wins. Some may want to include the win Vs Sheffield Wed in that. 

You often ignore the context of how we had lots of injuries etc. 

Manning

1st block of 9 - 14 points 4 wins

2nd block of 9 - 9 points 2 wins

You also ignore the context that Manning has had greater squad availability. 

You can try and frame me as being biased all you want. But the cold hard facts are posted above which show that rather than me being biased, it's infact yourself. 

My post was about Manning and the future of Bristol City, you've made it about Pearson. Go figure. 

P.s I very clearly said in my post that the elephant in the room is about the summer. That doesn't get discussed on here. 

Okay, if you say so, but I don't understand why you aren't giving the same grace to Manning as you did NP.  You're way off the mark with a smokescreen and I'm never uncomfortable about the truth. I can't see anywhere in that post where I have tried to belittle you? I've given you facts, so if you feel belittled by that then please accept my apologies. 

"Why do you and others like you have an inability to accept that fans have a genuine concern with how the club is run from the top down? Why is that an alien concept for you? Why does football fans caring about the club they pay to support, bother you so much?" - Some wild statements there (some would say belittling). Could you point me in the direction to anything I've said that make you think that I have an inability to accept fans concerns? If debating is not accepting, then..... 

Just because you're upset that I don't agree with your opinion, doesn't mean I don't agree with all concerns. Thats a very simplistic way at looking at it. 

"Once Pearson went I quickly moved on" - Yeah, we can all see that.

"It's hard to take posts like yours seriously when it's clear it's dripping in bias around your dislike for the previous manager. You want Manning to be a success because you want to be right about Pearson." - I don't dislike Pearson, I'm not really sure how many times we have to go over this, Dave. I liked Pearson, was it time for him to go, IMO yes. Also, your last sentence is literally you, but just change the word success to to unsuccessful. 

Anyway, I'll stop there as I can't be bothered with it. 
 

I like your posts Dave, I do, but I just don't get why you were so lenient with Pearson and so harsh with Manning, its just confusing. 

 

 

[Superjack]

10 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

His sacking wasn’t a disgrace, he was the 2nd longest serving manager in the league and there were plenty of occasions where he could’ve been sacked previously, Pearson said so himself. The sacking was harsh and the lack of investment after Scott sale shows the club didn’t feel he was going to be here long term - harsh but fair. I liked Pearson and think he did a good job in rebuilding the club, but he also failed to get the best out of a number of players who are now improving under Manning. I would’ve loved the Pearson from 10 years ago, but thaT  wasn’t to be….the notion that his sacking was “a disgrace” is well OTT though. 

I think that you will find yourself in a minority in your opinion. 

Unless you frequent the inner sanctum of the 'boardroom' of course. 

It was a disgrace.

 

[Natchfever]

14 minutes ago, Gaseater said:

His sacking wasn’t a disgrace, he was the 2nd longest serving manager in the league and there were plenty of occasions where he could’ve been sacked previously, Pearson said so himself. The sacking was harsh and the lack of investment after Scott sale shows the club didn’t feel he was going to be here long term - harsh but fair. I liked Pearson and think he did a good job in rebuilding the club, but he also failed to get the best out of a number of players who are now improving under Manning. I would’ve loved the Pearson from 10 years ago, but thaT  wasn’t to be….the notion that his sacking was “a disgrace” is well OTT though. 

Who do you reckon Manning is getting a tune out of who Pearson didnt?

Genuine question

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said:

I like your posts Dave, I do, but I just don't get why you were so lenient with Pearson and so harsh with Manning, its just confusing. 

Quite simple - context of situation - what Pearson was handed over, what Manning was handed over.  Chalk and cheese, and therefore different expectations along the way.

This season I’ve been quite critical at times of Nige, especially the way he played the front-three.  Before this season I had higher expectations.  Some of the criticism was tempered by injuries in the squad.

I’m not harsh (imho) on Manning, over-analytical, maybe, but that’s my method.  I set my expectations of Manning clearly up front.  I don’t recall anyone saying - ”Fevs those are completely unrealistic”.

Here they are again.

 

and that’s what I’ve measured him against at the high level.  I’ve then gone into lower detail in terms of different aspects of his style - attacking, defending, pressing / blocking, build-up / passing.

I don’t think anyone could’ve been more complimentary of his press / block than me.  After a few games of wobbly defending (small sample) he’s settled that down nicely for it to be performing at a nice level.  But my criticisms to balance the two positives are in our attacking play.  That was the area I expected him to make more if an impact.

I’ve praised his interviews, his beliefs, his ability to answer tough Qs on the spot.

I’ve criticised some of his game management.

I don’t think I’ve been harsh at all.

Had he had to take over in a relegation battle for example, I’d have a very different set of expectations and be measuring differently.

Have I really been harsh…or just shoeing consistency to my expectations and my method?

If you think I have, that’s fine. Ta.

Edited February 21 by Davefevs

[Tim Monaghan]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Quite simple - context of situation - what Pearson was handed over, what Manning was handed over.  Chalk and cheese, and therefore different expectations along the way.

This season I’ve been quite critical at times of Nige, especially the way he played the front-three.  Before this season I had higher expectations.  Some of the criticism was tempered by injuries in the squad.

I’m not harsh (imho) on Manning, over-analytical, maybe, but that’s my method.  I set my expectations of Manning clearly up front.  I don’t recall anyone saying - ”Fevs those are completely unrealistic”.

Here they are again.

 

and that’s what I’ve measured him against at the high level.  I’ve then gone into lower detail in terms of different aspects of his style - attacking, defending, pressing / blocking, build-up / passing.

I don’t think anyone could’ve been more complimentary of his press / block than me.  After a few games of wobbly defending (small sample) he’s settled that down nicely for it to be performing at a nice level.  But my criticisms to balance the two positives are in our attacking play.  That was the area I expected him to maje more if an impact.

I’ve praised his interviews, his beliefs, his ability to answer tough Qs on the spot.

I’ve criticised some of his game management.

I don’t think I’ve been harsh at all.

Had he had to take over in a relegation battle for example, I’d have a very different set of expectations and be measuring differently.

Have a really been harsh…or just shoeing consistency to my expectations and my method?

If you think I have, that’s fine. Ta.

That wasn’t aimed at you Dave. It was the Dave I was talking to, but thank you. 

Edited February 21 by Tim Monaghan

[Superjack]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Quite simple - context of situation - what Pearson was handed over, what Manning was handed over.  Chalk and cheese, and therefore different expectations along the way.

This season I’ve been quite critical at times of Nige, especially the way he played the front-three.  Before this season I had higher expectations.  Some of the criticism was tempered by injuries in the squad.

I’m not harsh (imho) on Manning, over-analytical, maybe, but that’s my method.  I set my expectations of Manning clearly up front.  I don’t recall anyone saying - ”Fevs those are completely unrealistic”.

Here they are again.

 

and that’s what I’ve measured him against at the high level.  I’ve then gone into lower detail in terms of different aspects of his style - attacking, defending, pressing / blocking, build-up / passing.

I don’t think anyone could’ve been more complimentary of his press / block than me.  After a few games of wobbly defending (small sample) he’s settled that down nicely for it to be performing at a nice level.  But my criticisms to balance the two positives are in our attacking play.  That was the area I expected him to maje more if an impact.

I’ve praised his interviews, his beliefs, his ability to answer tough Qs on the spot.

I’ve criticised some of his game management.

I don’t think I’ve been harsh at all.

Had he had to take over in a relegation battle for example, I’d have a very different set of expectations and be measuring differently.

Have a really been harsh…or just shoeing consistency to my expectations and my method?

If you think I have, that’s fine. Ta.

Level-headed as usual Dave.

Apart from the bit about his interviews. They are just mind numbing.

Anyone can answer a difficult question on the spot if they have spent all week thinking of the answer.

[Mr Popodopolous]

You could make a case that Mehmeti has been a bit more productive under Manning.

He was not too bad in some of the Cup games, the assist v Southampton and the goal v Hull are good, hitting the post v Sunderland. Fine margins.

Not saying he is dazzling but is he showing a bit more? Maybe.

Can't think of anyone else though.

Edited February 21 by Mr Popodopolous

[Maltshoveller]

22 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yeah, he’s not going anywhere, nor should he be at this point.

But I also think it’s fine for WSM to have his view too.  And yes, he’s gone early, and we can all have a good laugh when he’s proved wrong, can’t we.  But what if WSM has got it right?

He cant lose can he

If he is wrong it means City are doing well

If he is right He can say "I told you so"

I have a feeling He wants it to be the latter 

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You could make a case that Mehmeti has been a bit more productive under Manning.

He was not too bad in some of the Cup games, the assist v Southampton and the goal v Hull are good, hitting the post v Sufnrland. Fine margins.

Not saying he is dazzling but is he showing a bit more? Maybe.

Can't think of anyone else though.

Agreed Mr P, only one I can think of at present but he drives me nuts more than impresses me !

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You could make a case that Mehmeti has been a bit more productive under Manning.

He was not too bad in some of the Cup games, the assist v Southampton and the goal v Hull are good, hitting the post v Sufnrland. Fine margins.

Not saying he is dazzling but is he showing a bit more? Maybe.

Can't think of anyone else though.

I could counter that Mehmeti is (currently) one of those frustrating 'one game in five' players. 

So if you constantly play him, something good will happen eventually. 

I actually quite like him for that reason.