Liam Post Match

[spudski]

1 minute ago, RollsRoyce said:

If we want young and upcoming, put King in charge. He will not be worse. In fact I am almost certain, he would have been a better choice post Pearson. 

But get Tinnion out

Tinnion is doing what anyone would do in his position. He knows he's landed on his feet, by unjustified means. He's now working with JL by making their positions easier to manage. Sadly he's not intelligent enough to realise his liked status by the fans is becoming very diminished. 

He's on thin ice with the fan base.  He imo, is a good academy director and should be still in that position. 

Having him and JL in charge is a recipe for disaster imo.

Both are scared of strong dominant men, who have achieved more and will ruffle feathers. 

Both come across as cowards. 

LM looks like a rabbit in headlights blaming seasoned players for his poor ideas. 

Being led by people out of their depth. 

This has relegation battle all over it for next season. 

 

[LondonBristolian]

35 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Something relevant to this is one of the things Naismith said in Comms today. I cannot remember it verbatim so I'll paraphrase but it was essentially "I don't understand why we are playing like this. We don't do this in training and I'm sure it's not the game plan". Naismith wants honestly baffled at how badly we were playing, he couldn't explain why we were a yard off, why we weren't moving, why we just looked...ugh (apologies for the lack of eloquence)

As a number of us said in the match day thread, he's an honest commentator who doesn't pull punches. I think if he knew why we were crap he'd say.

This was during the game, and it does seem to support the idea that there is a plan that wasn't executed today...or maybe wasn't executed with enough vigour?

Ultimately the buck still stops with Manning though. If your players can’t execute the game plan then it is the wrong game plan - no matter how it looks on paper.

Unlike some points in the last few years, believe that the vast majority  - and perhaps all - of our players give 100% and want to succeed for themselves and for each other. If they are giving their all and not delivering the game plan then the question has to be whether it is the right game plan for the players.

[joe jordans teeth]

3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Yet conveniently, when saying how important training time was, said the first goal against Southampton was down to them having more time “on the grass” to practise throw ins. 

He is making it up on the hop clearly,don’t think the players are helping him mind to be honest with not doing the basics so it’s not a one way street 

[Firstyardleftinbed]

42 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Something relevant to this is one of the things Naismith said in Comms today. I cannot remember it verbatim so I'll paraphrase but it was essentially "I don't understand why we are playing like this. We don't do this in training and I'm sure it's not the game plan". Naismith wants honestly baffled at how badly we were playing, he couldn't explain why we were a yard off, why we weren't moving, why we just looked...ugh (apologies for the lack of eloquence)

As a number of us said in the match day thread, he's an honest commentator who doesn't pull punches. I think if he knew why we were crap he'd say.

This was during the game, and it does seem to support the idea that there is a plan that wasn't executed today...or maybe wasn't executed with enough vigour?

Completely agree with this. The players were well off it today and sometimes its just comes down to who wants it more and today it wasn't us.

However, as @Davefevs mentions, if it's not working or players arent at it then Manning needs to change it. The changes today came too late I thought.

Edited February 24 by Firstyardleftinbed

[joe jordans teeth]

1 minute ago, LondonBristolian said:

Ultimately the buck still stops with Manning though. If your players can’t execute the game plan then it is the wrong game plan - no matter how it looks on paper.

Unlike some points in the last few years, believe that the vast majority  - and perhaps all - of our players give 100% and want to succeed for themselves and for each other. If they are giving their all and not delivering the game plan then the question has to be whether it is the right game plan for the players.

Simple closing down is a must for any player,I’m not having Manning has told them not to because we saw it against Southampton so something isn’t right 

[1960maaan]

That is a depressing video .

Has he ever taken the blame for set up or decisions ? The team didn't do the basics , their fault and when the guy says great goal his first words were praise for the coaching . 
That presser is spoon feeding easier questions, I want a reporter to ask ....
why start Pring who looked unfit?
Why play players who can only be trusted for 45 minutes ?
I would like to ask "why Mehmeti"? but that ain't ever going to get asked. 
For someone who wants to play possession football , the movement has basically stopped . Not sure what has been going on in training, but if like Naismith mentioned they play a lot of 'non tackling games' it may not be the best prep for Championship football. He seems to have taken a squad who were together and hard working, into a load of individuals , frustrated with each other. 
It is going to take a huge turn around just to get back to where we were.

[Robbored]

34 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Imho he put a shit game-plan on the table and after 15 mins should’ve realised either the players weren’t executing it or it was a bad game-plan.  I can guess from the above he thinks it’s poor execution.

But even if it is a good game-plan, it wasn’t working, then do something about it.

Exactly right.

No plan B - just as there wasn’t against QPR. I posted at the time that his inability to change tack was disconcerting. That’s been reinforced after today.

His post match interview was the first time that I’ve seen him ‘angry’ and pointing the blame away from himself smacks of GJ and LJ - not something that I want to hear.

[Simon bristol]

17 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

If we want young and upcoming, put King in charge. He will not be worse. In fact I am almost certain, he would have been a better choice post Pearson. 

But get Tinnion out

Theres no way they want king around, his name, experience, and regard in football ####s all over theirs, hes a threat to their positions.

[weepywall]

I don't think he's up to the job but I actually feel a bit sorry for him...we came calling and he wasn't going to turn us down was he ? Way out of his depth and very inexperienced...such a bizarre appointment.

[Glen hump]

Just now, weepywall said:

I don't think he's up to the job but I actually feel a bit sorry for him...we came calling and he wasn't going to turn us down was he ? Way out of his depth and very inexperienced...such a bizarre appointment.

If he showed a bit of humility I’d feel for him a little bit, but he’s coming across like a LJ clone.

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Exactly right.

No plan B - just as there wasn’t against QPR. I posted at the time that his inability to change tack was disconcerting. That’s been reinforced after today.

His post match interview was the first time that I’ve seen him ‘angry’ and pointing the blame away from himself smacks of GJ and LJ - not something that I want to hear.

Although I welcome this have you been reading my posts saying that for the last three months!

[Ashton Fete]

I said it on another threat but I want to see him being the leader and shielding the players who are clearly trying to play what he wants and that’s probably at times having them in two minds and what to do in scenario A B or C

He needs to stop with the ‘we’ ‘the players’ ‘attitude's and behaviours’

He needs to start having some personal responsibility and protecting the players with some more ‘I’s’ in terms of what went wrong and didn’t 

 

[Street red]

Just remember what Pearson said in an interview "They can get rid of me but things won't change" That always stays in the back of my mind.

[chinapig]

6 minutes ago, Simon bristol said:

Theres no way they want king around, his name, experience, and regard in football ####s all over theirs, hes a threat to their positions.

He's also too close to Nigel Pearson so he's persona non grata regardless of his qualities.

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

I’ll caveat again by saying I didn’t see the game but based on comments here this seems poorly judged. The comment of “I’ve said to the players we can give you all the information but if you don’t do the basics” may be right but is total deflection from any responsibility. I can’t see it playing well with the squad overall.

Worrying.

 

Lee Johnson was the same.

[The Original OTIB]

43 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

He did at half time, took off 2 players who were either not fit or not interested, although should have taken them off before then.

Why do you think he took so long?

[Alan Dicks]

3 minutes ago, Street red said:

Just remember what Pearson said in an interview "They can get rid of me but things won't change" That always stays in the back of my mind.

I don’t recall him saying that, or perhaps i missed it, when did he say this?

[Red Army 75]

Bored of this bloke. And bored of this club currently.  Brian ******* Tinnion and Jon Lansdown so far out of your depth 

[BUTOR]

He seems like a serial over thinker. I never hear stories of managers studying tape until 3 in the morning and think it bodes particularly well. Perhaps we were lacking complexity at times under Pearson but each and every player knew their roles and they would stay mostly consistent from game to game. The last month has been a borderline tombola of selections and ideas reminiscent of Johnson. Today was just bizarre. I don’t think you really tend to sneak into 6th or 5th with tactical wizardry, you are more likely to achieve a higher placed finish as a club with an average budget through a robustness and spirited togetherness. It’s old ground, but throwing that in the bin is going to continue to haunt this club. We were nearly there.

A hope is that he realised a while ago play offs were never on the cards this season and is trying to work out the foundation he will build on from next season tactically. He’s certainly capable of getting it right and winning a game with his tweaks, unfortunately at the moment it feels like he isn’t going to be able to find and settle on a formula.

Some managers aren’t capable of it, but it feels like there’s just no need for the chopping and changing and barrage of ever evolving ideas in the Championship. We were so concerned about them today, a side who have been struggling at the bottom all season, there was no need for it. I doubt the many sides that have taken points at Hillsborough this season have done so by trying so hard to stifle them? More likely playing to their strengths and just backing themselves against a weak opposition. 

[One Team]

8 minutes ago, Street red said:

Just remember what Pearson said in an interview "They can get rid of me but things won't change" That always stays in the back of my mind.

This is a Nige quote that isn’t quoted enough. We know enough of Nige to know exactly what he meant by this. 

[headhunter]

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

Thought the same.

It sadly reminded me a lot of LJ’s classic “players executed the game plan to perfection” or “players didn’t work to the plan well enough” lines.

Aka, if we win it’s all down to my ideas, if we don’t my ideas were great but the players didn’t carry them out. 

I thought he might have commented on the condition of the pitch not being conducive to fast, front foot, flowing football!

[Street red]

5 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

I don’t recall him saying that, or perhaps i missed it, when did he say this?

Maybe around that west Brom game i can't quite remember the time scale of when could of been before but he definitely said it.One of the interviews at the training ground I recall.

[Robbored]

18 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Although I welcome this have you been reading my posts saying that for the last three months!

 

I read numerous posts Silvio - it’s difficult to remember them all.

[George Rs]

7 minutes ago, BUTOR said:

He seems like a serial over thinker. I never hear stories of managers studying tape until 3 in the morning and think it bodes particularly well. Perhaps we were lacking complexity at times under Pearson but each and every player knew their roles and they would stay mostly consistent from game to game. The last month has been a borderline tombola of selections and ideas reminiscent of Johnson. Today was just bizarre. I don’t think you really tend to sneak into 6th or 5th with tactical wizardry, you are more likely to achieve a higher placed finish as a club with an average budget through a robustness and spirited togetherness. It’s old ground, but throwing that in the bin is going to continue to haunt this club. We were nearly there.

A hope is that he realised a while ago play offs were never on the cards this season and is trying to work out the foundation he will build on from next season tactically. He’s certainly capable of getting it right and winning a game with his tweaks, unfortunately at the moment it feels like he isn’t going to be able to find and settle on a formula.

Some managers aren’t capable of it, but it feels like there’s just no need for the chopping and changing and barrage of ever evolving ideas in the Championship. We were so concerned about them today, a side who have been struggling at the bottom all season, there was no need for it. I doubt the many sides that have taken points at Hillsborough this season have done so by trying so hard to stifle them? More likely playing to their strengths and just backing themselves against a weak opposition. 

He does seem very detail oriented but he got it working at Oxford so why not here. I know it’s a small data sample but he took 30 points from a possible 36 at the start of the season. He knows how to win games, this isn’t a “nobody” that some people think he is with no experience. Completely different to a Joe Edwards at millwall for example. 
 

 

 

[One Team]

7 minutes ago, Street red said:

Maybe around that west Brom game i can't quite remember the time scale of when could of been before but he definitely said it.One of the interviews at the training ground I recall.

I thought it was on the radio post match after the Cardiff defeat. He was asked about his position and was very candid.

[steviestevieneville]

35 minutes ago, spudski said:

Tinnion is doing what anyone would do in his position. He knows he's landed on his feet, by unjustified means. He's now working with JL by making their positions easier to manage. Sadly he's not intelligent enough to realise his liked status by the fans is becoming very diminished. 

He's on thin ice with the fan base.  He imo, is a good academy director and should be still in that position. 

Having him and JL in charge is a recipe for disaster imo.

Both are scared of strong dominant men, who have achieved more and will ruffle feathers. 

Both come across as cowards. 

LM looks like a rabbit in headlights blaming seasoned players for his poor ideas. 

Being led by people out of their depth. 

This has relegation battle all over it for next season. 

 

I’ve said it before. No new contracts for James & williams next season . All the experienced players out the door at once . No one to rock the boat A squad full of younger players in general . They’re revisiting the LJ years . Never ever learn from mistakes. I 100% expect to get relegated next season 

[BUTOR]

19 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

I don’t recall him saying that, or perhaps i missed it, when did he say this?

It was after a tepid draw at home to Peterborough. Think he followed it by saying the problem in question is ‘getting players to play’ ie culture.

Edited February 24 by BUTOR

[REDOXO]

16 minutes ago, headhunter said:

I thought he might have commented on the condition of the pitch not being conducive to fast, front foot, flowing football!

starting to sound LJesque isn't it!

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

If we want young and upcoming, put King in charge. He will not be worse. In fact I am almost certain, he would have been a better choice post Pearson. 

But get Tinnion out

As you know, I’d have put Fleming in charge with King brought in fully (alongside Euell), at least for a period of time.  But that was never an option, as the hierarchy wanted all trace of Nige out, as far as possible.  I can see why that didn’t happen though, I’m not stupid.  I would’ve done that when Nige become ill.  I can imagine Nige soldiered on because he knew the fate of his staff if he went, so tried to cling on as long as possible.

People forget that Fleming and Euell aren’t two blokes that have followed Nige everywhere like some manager / staff combos.  He played with “Curt” and briefly managed “Jase”, but he brought them in for what they could bring, not on nepotism.  He gave Alex Ball an opportunity too.

Rennie was his man, not gonna deny that.

34 minutes ago, NcnsBcfc said:

@Davefevs was up at Sheffield today amd on long way home now.

Why does Manning persist with Wingbacks? None of his 6 league wins this season have been playing this formation.

The trio of Conway  Mehmeti and Sykes (who looked awfully rusty) were powderpuff physically and after the Ref turned down a few 50/50 physical challenges, they basically gave up the physical contest.

Pring didn't look fit and was holding his knee a bit and Sykes looked like he could have done with some Under 21 games in rehab.

My point is, Manning took until the 70rh min to change things (Wells sub) when it was clear it wasn't working at HT. He merely bought two subs on for a like for like (I don't see McCrorie as a wing back either.

He looks like a novice at this level at the moment, worrying times.

It was a weird set up today, it was kinda wingbacks, but not wingbacks.  It didn’t work whatever it was!

Our successful 424 block / press was thrown out of the window - you can’t do that set-up when you’re playing with “wingbacks”.  Even worse against their system because we were afraid to go 1v1.

Palmer and Valentin had a field day against Pring, because Mehmeti was caught trying to split two players.

I could go on….

27 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Ultimately the buck still stops with Manning though. If your players can’t execute the game plan then it is the wrong game plan - no matter how it looks on paper.

Unlike some points in the last few years, believe that the vast majority  - and perhaps all - of our players give 100% and want to succeed for themselves and for each other. If they are giving their all and not delivering the game plan then the question has to be whether it is the right game plan for the players.

That’s putting it better than I was trying to put it.

Agree, but when you’re making lots of 30/40 yard doggies both ways instead of 10 yard runs, it knackers you , and guess what - you’re effed when you need to make an incisive pass.

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, George Rs said:

He does seem very detail oriented but he got it working at Oxford so why not here. I know it’s a small data sample but he took 30 points from a possible 36 at the start of the season. He knows how to win games, this isn’t a “nobody” that some people think he is with no experience. Completely different to a Joe Edwards at millwall for example. 
 

 

 

To me it’s relatively simple - it’s easier be different in Lg1.  Opponents managers are less savvy, opponents are less savvy, more ill-disciplined, eg they press poorly (compared to championship teams), etc.

Oxford have generally been a top(ish) Lg1 team for a good few years, they were a good foundation to build on generally.