Sheltons Army Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 7 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said: Really like Foden but what shocked me when he played against us was how fast he was. Knew he was quick but not as fast as he was that night. Yes , not only in mind and over those first few yards I go back to his balance , he’s always totally nimbly balanced ready not only to change direction but to accelerate Every player that’s ever come into a debate about the greatest ever players had one thing in common - excellent balance ( and something I first look at in every footballer especially ‘prospects’) His close control is sublime And he uses his body brilliantly In summary - decent 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fpcity Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 I'm guessing it's because they don't want to lose possession so look for an easy pass. Can imagine if a winger tried to take on his man and only succeeds 1 in 3 and finds a team mate with the cross he'll get a bollocking and a high chance he won't be in the team for the next game. I don't know if it's rose tinted glasses and all that but football over the last decade has become less exciting. Probably due to data etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harvey54 Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 54 minutes ago, Sheltons Army said: Has ridiculous qualities Numero Quite bizarre and ridiculous balance , ability to change direction and glide with the ball Possibly as a consistent outrageously good first touch as I’ve ever seen Very intelligent footballer Good Finisher from inside or outside the box , either foot and even the odd header Unselfish Works his a**e off , going both ways , pretty brave for a slight lad absolutely mesmerising to watch Seems a good lad and does it all with a big smile on his face I quite like him Without a Pep to guide him he'd be coached out of existence by an English manager Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 46 minutes ago, RedorDead BCFC said: Really like Foden but what shocked me when he played against us was how fast he was. Knew he was quick but not as fast as he was that night. I was shocked how quick Robbie Fowler was when watching him for the first time - not as quick as peak Michael Owen, but I certainly wouldn’t have fancied defending against that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said: I was shocked how quick Robbie Fowler was when watching him for the first time - not as quick as peak Michael Owen, but I certainly wouldn’t have fancied defending against that. When Liverpool had a front 4 of Fowler, Owen, Heskey and Litmanen, I thought it was the nr-perfect set of options. It wasn’t far off Cole, Yorke, Sheringham and Solskjaer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 8 minutes ago, harvey54 said: Without a Pep to guide him he'd be coached out of existence by an English manager I certainly think Pep was his perfect mentor, not every players but Foden certainly In Bellingham And Foden we have two players that already are as good if not better , as any we’ve had in my lifetime Both good pros and lads too , and importantly, really hungry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yozzarian Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 6 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said: What has happened to wingers in the Prem and Championship. They get the ball and if the fullback is within 10 yards they play inside or backwards. A good winger, if he is not tackled before getting the ball under control should be able to take on and beat his man 40% of the time when he only has 1 marker. Even if he gets a throw further up the pitch it's OK. A lot of the excitement used to come from these unpredictable tricksters. It seems now that is totally coached out of them and unless they get the ball with 25 yards of space in front of them they play it safe. The best way to disrupt a well organised defence is to beat 1 player and run at the defence. One thing of beauty was to watch Alex Scott receive the ball under pressure and simple breeze past his marker. How many free kicks did we get and chances came about due to the chaos it caused. I just find our style of play so b***dy boring. Mark Gavin and Dave Smith going at defenses either side of the pitch. Nothing more exciting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrumpys Dietary Advisor.. Posted March 4 Report Share Posted March 4 Maybe we should ask Scotty to dust off his boots and show them how it's done... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cityboy1954 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 (edited) 5 hours ago, Sheltons Army said: I was only thinking last night , if you could only watch the performance of one current player every week , only one , who would you go with For me , and has been for some time, it’s Foden Very rarely has the phrase ‘The Beautiful game’ been so more apt Love watching foden not many wide players like him can cut in and unleash a bullet like he does. Edited March 5 by Cityboy1954 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fgrsimon Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 7 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said: Whilst he lost confidence towards the end of his time here and was shunted off to Blackpool, Junior Bent on his day could absolutely terrify opposition defenders. I seem to remember that he had some phenomenal sprint time. Maybe I just saw him in his best games, or people mainly remember his loss of form towards the end, but he rarely merits a mention here. Coaching up at Preston's academy these days. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Bent He could certainly terrify defenders but rarely goalkeepers sadly. He was great until he got into the penalty area but then people in row Z would start to duck. Actually can't remember if his crossing was any good? but my abiding memory is of the ball flying into the stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 The damage bent did in the rearranged game at Blackpool cost us the leauge you could argue, or that Buffon ward letting seal play for Northampton while on loan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 5 hours ago, fgrsimon said: He could certainly terrify defenders but rarely goalkeepers sadly. He was great until he got into the penalty area but then people in row Z would start to duck. Actually can't remember if his crossing was any good? but my abiding memory is of the ball flying into the stand. Yeah, Bent and composure weren’t bedfellows. Exciting player though. My memory tells me he was one of the fastest players in the country, I’m sure it was in Match or Shoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 13 hours ago, Offside said: Wingers aside, one thing we’ve been desperately missing since Scott left is a player who can dribble with the ball and take it past opponents. Mehmeti maybe, but he is so inconsistent. We try to pass around teams instead (with our players very static, but that’s another story) and no-one goes on a run with the ball to draw the opposition and create space for others. I don’t think I’ve actually ever seen “Meh”meti beat his man. He so out of his depth it’s incredible. That position needs sorting ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 4 minutes ago, Tim Monaghan said: I don’t think I’ve actually ever seen “Meh”meti beat his man. He so out of his depth it’s incredible. That position needs sorting ASAP. Mehmeti is what I’d call a playground footballer. He’s undoubtedly got a lot of skill but has zero awareness of what his defender is likely to do or the game around him. It’s why he looked decent at the level below where defences are far looser but can’t play at this standard. He’s basically a football freestyler or Sonny Pike. Possibly the easiest footballer to mark/play against I’ve ever seen in the championship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oh Louie louie Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 Can recall phil Starbuck playing a blinder and scoring against someone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Monaghan Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 (edited) 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: Mehmeti is what I’d call a playground footballer. He’s undoubtedly got a lot of skill but has zero awareness of what his defender is likely to do or the game around him. It’s why he looked decent at the level below where defences are far looser but can’t play at this standard. He’s basically a football freestyler or Sonny Pike. Possibly the easiest footballer to mark/play against I’ve ever seen in the championship. Haha, this. It’s like you could turn on FIFA street 2, from circa 2006, and he’d be the main boss character. Edited March 5 by Tim Monaghan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clutton Caveman Posted March 5 Author Report Share Posted March 5 15 hours ago, Back of the Dolman said: I used to love watching Dave Smith fly down the wing and send over a cross for Bob Taylor or Nicky Morgan to head home Same for Whitehead Brolly and Skirton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Cat Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 14 hours ago, Ivorguy said: Best winger I have seen in City shirt was Arthur Milton, even tho by then in his twilight years Half tidy cricketer too.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 16 hours ago, IdliketoRogerMoore said: Stats happened, someone somewhere down the line pointed out the a left footer playing on the right cutting inside creates better chances cutting inside than a traditional winger going on the outside! Can’t remember the article I seen it in though! There is nothing new in a left footed winger playing at outside right. The great Tom Finney was the best example. And at City Jantzen Derrick was a right footer playing on the left wing. Where the game changed dramatically was when Alf Ramsey changed tactics when he made the touchline huggers do more defensive work. Working with the full backs and wing halves to lessen opponents attempts on their own goal. The game of football changed forever from one in which the idea was to score goals, goals and more goals to being very happy to win 1-0 every match. Ideal for those coaches who can't think for themselves. We have the perfect example at Bristol City. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSutton Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 All down the trends set by top managers at the elite level that trickle down. the idea of wingers only is effective if you are crossing into the box which is a dying art currently as headers are being phased out of the game particularly at youth level where they are only allowed to head the ball 12x a week. now you have a wing back which is viewed in a similar mould to wingers. These players are typically superb athletes who can run run and run they will cover ridiculous distances a game 10-13k. They are usually asked to take the opposition full back on which is what a winger does best but yet they have more defensive responsibilities than said wingers who like to stay high and wide. This high and wide doesn’t work anymore as the game has become so tactical with much of the individuality taken out of the attack for a more methodical tactical build up of play. For example, when defending rather than the man-marking system teams now opt for a defensive block per se so they defend an area on the pitch. If one player does not defend their “area” as they are high and wide the other 9 outfield players will have to compensate for this and not be able to defend their individual area as well as the zone they are covering has increased. that being said there are always trends in football so currently we are in the centre back bringing the ball out, inverted full back to create an extra body in midfield to overload the opposition rather than taking it to the outside of teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 8 minutes ago, TomSutton said: that being said there are always trends in football so currently we are in the centre back bringing the ball out, inverted full back to create an extra body in midfield to overload the opposition rather than taking it to the outside of teams. There are, but there are always a few who refuse to follow trends, or are happy to do it their own way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSutton Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 4 minutes ago, Davefevs said: There are, but there are always a few who refuse to follow trends, or are happy to do it their own way. There are outliers but on the whole I think wingers currently aren’t being utilised as “traditional” wingers at the top level of the sport. those who play 4-3-3 e.g liverpool, Madrid etc those wingers cut in to fill the half space and attack between the full back and the centre back as it forces the centre back to often defend on his weak foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TomSutton said: There are outliers but on the whole I think wingers currently aren’t being utilised as “traditional” wingers at the top level of the sport. those who play 4-3-3 e.g liverpool, Madrid etc those wingers cut in to fill the half space and attack between the full back and the centre back as it forces the centre back to often defend on his weak foot. I wasn’t talking about wingers per se, football in general follows trends. Someone on here posted a while back that Man City / CFG have indoctrinated football by making everyone play like them, but without the resources to equal / better them. It kinda resonates. Edited March 5 by Davefevs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 13 minutes ago, TomSutton said: All down the trends set by top managers at the elite level that trickle down. the idea of wingers only is effective if you are crossing into the box which is a dying art currently as headers are being phased out of the game particularly at youth level where they are only allowed to head the ball 12x a week. now you have a wing back which is viewed in a similar mould to wingers. These players are typically superb athletes who can run run and run they will cover ridiculous distances a game 10-13k. They are usually asked to take the opposition full back on which is what a winger does best but yet they have more defensive responsibilities than said wingers who like to stay high and wide. This high and wide doesn’t work anymore as the game has become so tactical with much of the individuality taken out of the attack for a more methodical tactical build up of play. For example, when defending rather than the man-marking system teams now opt for a defensive block per se so they defend an area on the pitch. If one player does not defend their “area” as they are high and wide the other 9 outfield players will have to compensate for this and not be able to defend their individual area as well as the zone they are covering has increased. that being said there are always trends in football so currently we are in the centre back bringing the ball out, inverted full back to create an extra body in midfield to overload the opposition rather than taking it to the outside of teams. Your heading guidance might be wrong there. Man City use a winger in Doku. Man City are playing high wide and deep. This could be history repeating but Man City formations in possession have become overtly lop sided and attacking. The majority of the team are in advance of the ball, Stones leave CB and pushes into midfield, the full backs, wing backs push up into advanced positions and invert. The team is regularly playing with two CB at the back, and sometimes one as Ederson leaves his goal to become a CB in possession. Man Citys shape becomes 2-3-5 and on. If Ederson steps in they are using eleven outfield players with width depth and a overload in midfield. For anybody who thinks Liam Manning is copying any of that, he is not. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSutton Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 12 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Your heading guidance might be wrong there. Man City use a winger in Doku. Man City are playing high wide and deep. This could be history repeating but Man City formations in possession have become overtly lop sided and attacking. The majority of the team are in advance of the ball, Stones leave CB and pushes into midfield, the full backs, wing backs push up into advanced positions and invert. The team is regularly playing with two CB at the back, and sometimes one as Ederson leaves his goal to become a CB in possession. Man Citys shape becomes 2-3-5 and on. If Ederson steps in they are using eleven outfield players with width depth and a overload in midfield. For anybody who thinks Liam Manning is copying any of that, he is not. For U12 they are not allowed in training to head the ball more than 12x a week. the way Man City play are unique and you make a good point about Doku who’s best ability is his 1v1 dribbling. Although the quality Man City possess allows them to have wingers with different attributes. Foden coming inside and finishing, Grealish ability to gain fouls and retain the ball etc. LM is far off copying that like you say due to them being Man City and us being who we are that level of tactical rotation is only possible in a team of world class players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomSutton Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 27 minutes ago, Davefevs said: I wasn’t talking about wingers per se, football in general follows trends. Someone on here posted a while back that Man City / CFG have indoctrinated football by making everyone play like them, but without the resources to equal / better them. It kinda resonates. Ah I see completely agree on trends it’s not a surprise to me that when an elite team has success in a certain shape or rotation of play then other teams do take inspiration from this and although they won’t copy it they will make small adjustments however the concept behind it (eg an extra body in midfield) remains the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Homer Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 Being left footed on the right wing hasn't done Bukayo Saka any harm! He's another that I could watch all day, every day. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowshed Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 2 minutes ago, TomSutton said: For U12 they are not allowed in training to head the ball more than 12x a week. Its advisory. The advised number of headers is five in a session once a month. Don't tell the parents!! 5 minutes ago, TomSutton said: the way Man City play are unique and you make a good point about Doku who’s best ability is his 1v1 dribbling. Although the quality Man City possess allows them to have wingers with different attributes. Foden coming inside and finishing, Grealish ability to gain fouls and retain the ball etc. LM is far off copying that like you say due to them being Man City and us being who we are that level of tactical rotation is only possible in a team of world class players Its a point that football may be evolving - Wingers. Guardiola is doing something unique. Aspects are possible in teams without world class players. Prioritise what is valued. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV Tom Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 10 minutes ago, Cowshed said: Its advisory. The advised number of headers is five in a session once a month. Don't tell the parents!! Its a point that football may be evolving - Wingers. Guardiola is doing something unique. Aspects are possible in teams without world class players. Prioritise what is valued. Wingers by nature can be very inconsistent, a winger for us wouldn't last half a season with the AG fan base Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltons Army Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, TV Tom said: Wingers by nature can be very inconsistent, a winger for us wouldn't last half a season with the AG fan base What a strange view Crap ones wouldn’t no Half decent winger and the fan base - hmmmm you clearly don’t have a , or a poor memory of our history over the last few decades , and wingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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