Instead of this, say this!

[Phileas Fogg]

23 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think the bean counters will be of the opinion that a PR person would be an expensive luxury.  I reckon that they could get a more enthusiastic following with better communications, but what do I know?

It doesn’t have to be a “PR Person” hired for a specific role - it can be as simple as having someone in the boardroom who has a basic understanding of comms and messaging - which we clearly don’t. 

Tinnion’s strengths seem to be in roles which aren’t public facing - his new role has taken him outside of his comfort zone and forced him into something he’s clearly not very good at.

[Bat Fastard]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

It doesn’t have to be a “PR Person” hired for a specific role - it can be as simple as having someone in the boardroom who has a basic understanding of comms and messaging - which we clearly don’t. 

Tinnion’s strengths seem to be in roles which aren’t public facing - his new role has taken him outside of his comfort zone and forced him into something he’s clearly not very good at.

I agree with your post but I am prepared to make allowances for any shortcomings in Brian's communication skills because I have a high regard for his overall contribution to our club. Judging by his accent he was clearly brought up speaking a foreign language, so it must be hard for the chap.

[Major Isewater]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

The Adam Murphy thread brings into focus once more just how bad our communication is. But it doesn’t need to be like this, and telling the truth doesn’t make you look stupid. Just off the top of my head, how much better would it have been if communication was the following:

Murphy

Instead of:

”He’s doing a long pre season”

Say: (my assumed position here)

”When he performed his medical it was a deal we still wanted to do but there were some concerns - although not ones we expect to be long term - if the players right you take the gamble like Bournemouth did with Scotty. We’re just making sure everything is fully right medically and well then target for him to be fully in the swing of things for next season”

Medube

Instead of:

”He didn’t play due to work permit issues”  (now known to be a lie)

Say:

”For whatever reason it didn’t work out for him in Belgium. However it’s only six months ago that he was a great prospect in Man City’s academy so we’re loaning him to see where he is, and to see if it’s a deal we want to do longer term”

Targets

Instead of:

”We hope to be ten points better off”

Say:

”We want to be around the playoffs. It looks unlikely to happen this season, but it’s not far away in real terms so we expect that although it’s difficult to be top two due to parachute clubs we want to be right in the mix below that next season”

Performance

Instead of:

”Everyone was happy three weeks ago”  and “We played well in 19 of 20 games”

Say:

”The Southampton performance was the level we want to be at, and we probably haven’t been at that enough. The challenge is we need to get there every week and although I think in most games there have been signs, they haven’t hit that consistent level for 90 minutes often enough. And that’s the challenge for the staff and for the players, and it’s one we’ll meet”

Obviously this doesn’t have to be exact, but how much better would everyone be feeling with a bit of truth, professional communication and acknowledgment everything isn’t awesome? It’s not even that it’s a difficult thing to do or makes them look worse!

A job in comms awaits you Sir. 

[Phileas Fogg]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

I agree with your post but I am prepared to make allowances for any shortcomings in Brian's communication skills because I have a high regard for his overall contribution to our club. Judging by his accent he was clearly brought up speaking a foreign language, so it must be hard for the chap.

I just don’t think he’s particularly academic and, judging from his spelling, potentially dyslexic. Can’t tell if you’re joking about the foreign language thing. 

The issue here is that his current role requires a public speaking element. This isn’t his skill set. He’s expected to explain the club’s thinking on macro issues - and it’s clear he is weak in this area. You can’t just give him a pass because he was a good player and was successful in an academy role. Both are totally different.

[IAmNick]

39 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

has done a good job in the past - both as a player and running the academy.

Right, so he knows and is skilful at playing football and developing/running an academy. He is poor at communication, first team management (see: his failed attempt here), and basic literacy and numeracy.

So given all that which presumably you agree with, do you think he'd be better placed as some kind of academy director, or a technical director/CEO hybrid role of the entire club/footballing operation?

Edited March 13 by IAmNick

[ExiledAjax]

6 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I agree with your post but I am prepared to make allowances for any shortcomings in Brian's communication skills because I have a high regard for his overall contribution to our club. Judging by his accent he was clearly brought up speaking a foreign language, so it must be hard for the chap.

Why make allowances for failure because of some discrete successes achieved in a different role in the past? If Scott Murray fails to bring the kit to a match does he get a pass because he once cupped his ear at Ninian Park?

While we're at it - why judge someone based on their accent?

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I just don’t think he’s particularly academic and, judging from his spelling, potentially dyslexic. Can’t tell if you’re joking about the foreign language thing. 

The issue here is that his current role requires a public speaking element. This isn’t his skill set. He’s expected to explain the club’s thinking on macro issues - and it’s clear he is weak in this area. You can’t just give him a pass because he was a good player and was successful in an academy role. Both are totally different.

We all deal with people who are not always good at expressing themselves but we can still see that they have great quality. I believe that Brian is a bit like that. And I was joking about the foreign language!

[Alessandro]

17 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It is a game of opinions, and I think he is doing a good job and has done a good job in the past - both as a player and running the academy.  I think it also likely that the lean and mean management structure is an artefact of the bean counters who run the club. Brian has become the scapegoat. Unfairly in my humble opinion.

Yep all good to have opinions - but facts also help.

The fact is our current crop of first team academy players (including recently departed Scott and Semenyo) were under the stewardship of Gary Probert as academy manager.

Talking of Alex Scott (as you mentioned premier league players earlier), he wasn't discovered or coached by BT - Scott was already in the first team when BT became academy manager in October 21. Same goes for Conway (1st team debut mid 21) and Bell (early 22) in reality.

Yes BT has played a big role in scouting and bringing in youth players, Semenyo for example, and we give him credit for that and he can continue in that role no problem. 

But that's only the very start of the process - back to Scott again - my opinion this time - i'd give far more credit to the lad himself, his family, the city youth coaches, the England youth coaches, NP and his coaches, and Phil Alexander or even SL for the sale - than I would BT in any of the process. 

That's not me saying he doesn't get any credit, but keep it in perspective. 

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Just now, Bat Fastard said:

We all deal with people who are not always good at expressing themselves but we can still see that they have great quality. I believe that Brian is a bit like that. And I was joking about the foreign language!

? Are you purposely being contrarian or do you not understand what’s being said by many posters?

His role requires skill in expressing himself, it’s not a ‘nice to have’ thing.

[Bat Fastard]

2 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Right, so he knows and is skilful at playing football and developing/running an academy. He is poor at communication, first team management (see: his failed attempt here), and basic literacy and numeracy.

So given all that which presumably you agree with, do you think he'd be better placed as some kind of academy director, or a technical director/CEO hybrid role of the entire club/footballing operation?

I believe that his main job is to assist with recognising which players are diamonds in the rough and spotting how we can recruit and improve them. He has to talk to the public because we appear to be understaffed in certain areas. Surely we should be prepared to cut him a bit of slack and recognise that he is a great football man.

[Bat Fastard]

3 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Yep all good to have opinions - but facts also help.

The fact is our current crop of first team academy players (including recently departed Scott and Semenyo) were under the stewardship of Gary Probert as academy manager.

Talking of Alex Scott (as you mentioned premier league players earlier), he wasn't discovered or coached by BT - Scott was already in the first team when BT became academy manager in October 21. Same goes for Conway (1st team debut mid 21) and Bell (early 22) in reality.

Yes BT has played a big role in scouting and bringing in youth players, Semenyo for example, and we give him credit for that and he can continue in that role no problem. 

But that's only the very start of the process - back to Scott again - my opinion this time - i'd give far more credit to the lad himself, his family, the city youth coaches, the England youth coaches, NP and his coaches, and Phil Alexander or even SL for the sale - than I would BT in any of the process. 

That's not me saying he doesn't get any credit, but keep it in perspective. 

 

Listening to player and other interviews interviews over the years, many people have mentioned Brian Tinnion and his influence in a very positive way.  Of course there are lots of influences in building a player but I believe that Brian Tinnion is pivotal in terms of Bristol City.  The fact that he is not always great at expressing himself is not particularly relevant in my opinion. He can clearly make himself understood in football circles.  The fact that is is exposed in terms of his public speaking skills is a reflection of the directors, who clearly value his input but do not look after him as they perhaps should.

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I believe that his main job is to assist with recognising which players are diamonds in the rough and spotting how we can recruit and improve them. He has to talk to the public because we appear to be understaffed in certain areas. Surely we should be prepared to cut him a bit of slack and recognise that he is a great football man.

Not as great a football man as Chris Wilder.

 

 

[Superjack]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

Listening to player and other interviews interviews over the years, many people have mentioned Brian Tinnion and his influence in a very positive way.  Of course there are lots of influences in building a player but I believe that Brian Tinnion is pivotal in terms of Bristol City.  The fact that he is not always great at expressing himself is not particularly relevant in my opinion. He can clearly make himself understood in football circles.  The fact that is is exposed in terms of his public speaking skills is a reflection of the directors, who clearly value his input but do not look after him as they perhaps should.

Karma is a bitch.

Brian Tinnion looks after himself most adequately.

[Bat Fastard]

11 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Why make allowances for failure because of some discrete successes achieved in a different role in the past? If Scott Murray fails to bring the kit to a match does he get a pass because he once cupped his ear at Ninian Park?

While we're at it - why judge someone based on their accent?

I do not think he is a failure. I like his accent, it is the same as Mickey Bell - another of my heroes.

[ExiledAjax]

1 minute ago, Bat Fastard said:

I do not think he is a failure. I like his accent, it is the same as Mickey Bell - another of my heroes.

Neat side step of the question. Bell would be proud of you.

[BrizzleRed]

49 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think the bean counters will be of the opinion that a PR person would be an expensive luxury.  I reckon that they could get a more enthusiastic following with better communications, but what do I know?

…… well, if our bean counters have that much power over critical appointments  within the operation and aren’t over-ruled by their boss SL, then that tells you all you need to know about his ability to run a successful football club!

[PHILINFRANCE]

56 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

It is a game of opinions, and I think he is doing a good job and has done a good job in the past - both as a player and running the academy.  I think it also likely that the lean and mean management structure is an artefact of the bean counters who run the club. Brian has become the scapegoat. Unfairly in my humble opinion.

I don't think anybody is disputing the highlighted section of your post, and neither should they be.

I believe that the problem is that BT appears ill-equipped and totally unsuited to his current role, which requires communication and presentatation skills that, unfortunately, he appears manifestly to be lacking.

[Alessandro]

2 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Listening to player and other interviews interviews over the years, many people have mentioned Brian Tinnion and his influence in a very positive way.  Of course there are lots of influences in building a player but I believe that Brian Tinnion is pivotal in terms of Bristol City.  The fact that he is not always great at expressing himself is not particularly relevant in my opinion. He can clearly make himself understood in football circles.  The fact that is is exposed in terms of his public speaking skills is a reflection of the directors, who clearly value his input but do not look after him as they perhaps should.

Can you reference any of those interviews, any links? Just I've never seen them...

"pivotal" - debatable. 

I've not mentioned his ability to express himself, so that's irrelevant to this discussion.

He was one of a group that scouted players for the academy - in that role i'm happy for him to continue.

Ironically, one could argue we're yet to see the product of his time as academy manager on the pitch - as the number of first team debuts have dried up - time will tell on that one too. 

 

[PHILINFRANCE]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

To just give the full SP, both Tinnion and Manning said that DM hadn’t played in Belgium due to work permit issues (I think Liams quote was along the lines of DM hadn’t played for 3 months because of it) - @Curr Avon got in touch with a Belgian journalist and it transpired that DM had missed one day of a training camp in Turkey due to visa issues and that was it.

It was a bizarre thing to lie about and my only explanation is they wanted to make the signing seem more of a coup than it was.

Congratulations on introducing an equestrian term in the middle of Cheltenham Week .

[Bat Fastard]

7 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

…… well, if our bean counters have that much power over critical appointments  within the operation and aren’t over-ruled by their boss SL, then that tells you all you need to know about his ability to run a successful football club!

Ideally a business should be run is a way that eliminates wasteful spending. Of course this relies on judgements by decision makers who sometimes seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing. Otherwise Nige would still be the manager - in my humble judgement.

[Bat Fastard]

7 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Can you reference any of those interviews, any links? Just I've never seen them...

"pivotal" - debatable. 

I've not mentioned his ability to express himself, so that's irrelevant to this discussion.

He was one of a group that scouted players for the academy - in that role i'm happy for him to continue.

Ironically, one could argue we're yet to see the product of his time as academy manager on the pitch - as the number of first team debuts have dried up - time will tell on that one too. 

 

Sorry about the lack of dredging through hundreds of interviews, that is beyond my meagre technical skill.  Of course it is debateable, which is why we are debating it!

[Gert Mare]

They say what they want

They say what they waaaaaaaant

It’s Jon and Brian’s club

They say what they want

 

They lie when they want

They lie when they waaaaaaant

Supporters are just customers

They lie when they want

 

 

 

Edited March 13 by Gert Mare

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

The issue here is that his current role requires a public speaking element. This isn’t his skill set. He’s expected to explain the club’s thinking on macro issues - and it’s clear he is weak in this area. You can’t just give him a pass because he was a good player and was successful in an academy role. Both are totally different.

In which case you train yourself.

Nigel Pearson knew it was a weakness of his.  The interview style he has isn’t his natural style, he took it upon himself to learn it.

[JAWS]

50 minutes ago, Superjack said:

There will be no issue. 

He'll be out.

Its a dictatorship only not very well orchestrated 

[Yozzarian]

1 hour ago, Alessandro said:

You do realise that when a player comes through our academy and is sold on, that is down to numerous individuals within the club, not just being 'nursed' by Brian Tinnion, right?

Also we are judging comms ability here, nothing else.

[Silvio Dante]

6 minutes ago, Yozzarian said:

Also we are judging comms ability here, nothing else.

Indeed. Brian’s ability as a player or with the academy has nothing to do with whether he could and should communicate better. The point is that communication is absolutely vital in his current role and it’s something he’s well below par at. Thats not to say Liam gets a pass as my fourth quote was something both him and Brian said, but the overarching message is that an honest style that treats the fans like adults is far more likely to foster collectiveness than what we have now.

(NB - I have no issue in white lies such as to whether x will be fit for the weekends game - that’s absolutely fine)

And again, it should be very easy to do better than particularly Brian is on the particular aspect of communication- and if he can’t, he can’t do this specific job.

[redsquirrel]

another little problem here is there is now nobody else who has a scooby of an idea whats going on  in most departments as BT is now running all of them 

the only way to sort it is for bt to have a few comms lessons, i expect nailsea school would do an evening class of some sorts

 

but then he needs courses on the rest of the stuff hes got to learn,wont leave him much time at the club and thats a sackable offence as we know

[Crimson Crayola]

2 hours ago, Alessandro said:

You do realise that when a player comes through our academy and is sold on, that is down to numerous individuals within the club, not just being 'nursed' by Brian Tinnion, right?

I just had a terrifying mental image of Tinnion breastfeeding Alex Scott. 

[PHILINFRANCE]

22 minutes ago, Crimson Crayola said:

I just had a terrifying mental image of Tinnion breastfeeding Alex Scott. 

All of which gives me a mental image of Alex Scott breastfeeding me, but that is probably for another thread or site even .

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

You sound perfect for the job!!  How many young players have you recruited, nursed through the academy into the first team and then on to the Premier League?

How many 3rd Division games has he lost 7-0?