Naismith

[Cityboy1954]

Pay his contract up hes a waste of space . Best performance,this year was in Robins T.V .

Edited March 14 by Cityboy1954

[Royce5nine]

Terrible commentator too

[Cityboy1954]

Just now, Royce5nine said:

Terrible commentator too

:laugh: best performance for us in the last year

[Mr Popodopolous]

His availability was good to respectable e.g. his prior clubs, so was that of Twine at Hull, Williams was robust across Barnsley, Bolton, Wigan shall I go on..

[GrahamC]

35 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

His availability was good to respectable e.g. his prior clubs, so was that of Twine at Hull, Williams was robust across Barnsley, Bolton, Wigan shall I go on..

Will be 33 next season & it just seems like time has caught up with him, injury wise.

Williams has been available for 32/37 league games (made 37 appearances in all competitions) this season with 9 more games to go, I’d say that was pretty decent.

Twine has no significant injury history at all, if he is back on Saturday & stays fit for the rest, it is then a very small sample size over his career.

 

Edited March 14 by GrahamC

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Will be 33 next season & it just seems like time has caught up with him, injury wise.

Williams has been available for 32/37 league games (made 37 appearances in all competitions) this season with 9 more games to go, I’d say that was pretty decent.

Twine has no significant injury history at all, if he is back on Saturday & stays fit for the rest, it is then a very small sample size over his career.

 

For sure Williams impressive tbis year, was thinking of the first 2 years especially. our track record is shall we say variable with worsening availability of players post signing.

We could be somewhat unlucky too. Not totally willing to give up on Naismith, if he can get reasonably fit next year.

[JAWS]

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

For sure Williams impressive tbis year, was thinking of the first 2 years especially. our track record is shall we say variable with worsening availability of players post signing.

We could be somewhat unlucky too. Not totally willing to give up on Naismith, if he can get reasonably fit next year.

There is a pattern emerging & maybe reflected in their price/availability to acquire 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 minute ago, JAWS said:

There is a pattern emerging & maybe reflected in their price/availability to acquire 

I dunno because they had good availability at clubs prior to us so I'm thinking there is more of an issue at our end.

Edited March 14 by Mr Popodopolous

[JAWS]

Just now, Mr Popodopolous said:

I dunno because they had good availability at clubs prior to us so I'm thinking there is more of an issue at our end.

Yeah possibly though thought we'd dispensed with the previous fitness coaches? 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Just now, JAWS said:

Yeah possibly though thought we'd dispensed with the previous fitness coaches? 

Getting rid of Rennie was an error. Well getting rid of all the top team was, I dunno if it is that, is it a pitch issue, are we a bit too intense or not intense enough in training.

Atkinson and Benarous haven't kicked a ball for a year and 2 years, 2 months respectively give or take. That can't be right, as in all is well.

[JAWS]

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Getting rid of Rennie was an error. Well getting rid of all the top team was, I dunno if it is that, is it a pitch issue, are we a bit too intense or not intense enough in training.

Atkinson and Benarous haven't kicked a ball for a year and 2 years, 2 months respectively give or take. That can't be right, as in all is well.

Yep. Something isn't right. All too much of a coincidence 

[YorkshireSection]

Just now, JAWS said:

Yep. Something isn't right. All too much of a coincidence 

Glad its not just me thinking this then, defo something amiss!

[JAWS]

15 minutes ago, YorkshireSection said:

Glad its not just me thinking this then, defo something amiss!

 

[RollsRoyce]

7 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Will be 33 next season & it just seems like time has caught up with him, injury wise.

Williams has been available for 32/37 league games (made 37 appearances in all competitions) this season with 9 more games to go, I’d say that was pretty decent.

Twine has no significant injury history at all, if he is back on Saturday & stays fit for the rest, it is then a very small sample size over his career.

 

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/scott-twine-burnley-premier-league-27070480

[Cityboy1954]

All club get injuries but its been four to five years now something seriously wrong they are out for months on end not just dhort term seems to be i hate to say it since the HPC centre was built .

[1960maaan]

4 minutes ago, Cityboy1954 said:

All club get injuries but its been four to five years now something seriously wrong they are out for months on end not just dhort term seems to be i hate to say it since the HPC centre was built .

Thing is, what IS wrong ?

We have had these problems for years, unlucky ? Probably , to a point .
But continued problems suggest something else.
Pearson came in and changed the medical and coaching staff , we still had problems . Manning comes in after the old coaching and conditioning staff left ( not sure about the medical side) and we still have problems . 
To me that says , unless they were all doing the same things across 3 set ups, that it's something else. 
Some concerns over the pitches , but while that may be a factor other teams have the same ones and not suffer as much for so long . I don't doubt these hybrid pitches put more strain on soft tissue , I think there is a rise of problems across the sport , but it seems never ending here . 
Plus we changed the pitch last summer , new base and different design I believe . 
Both HPC & the Gate are the same pitches BTW.

Not sure what that leaves to be able to point the finger at .  Not a straight forward fix , obviously.

We seem to have had more than our fair share .

 

[Edgy Red]

Injuries aside, i've not been overly impressed by Naismith and i'm still not sure what Nige's plan was when he brought him in?

He's clearly not mobile or physical enough to play as a centre back in a back 4, so i can only think that Nige wanted to play a back 5 all the time?

I can remember numerous times when he gave the ball away which led to us conceding, and for the wages he's reportedly on, he's been a bit of a disaster really.

His one successful season at Luton appears to have got him his nice final big contract before he moves on a free to Partick Thistle!

[GrahamC]

25 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Thing is, what IS wrong ?

We have had these problems for years, unlucky ? Probably , to a point .
But continued problems suggest something else.
Pearson came in and changed the medical and coaching staff , we still had problems . Manning comes in after the old coaching and conditioning staff left ( not sure about the medical side) and we still have problems . 
To me that says , unless they were all doing the same things across 3 set ups, that it's something else. 
Some concerns over the pitches , but while that may be a factor other teams have the same ones and not suffer as much for so long . I don't doubt these hybrid pitches put more strain on soft tissue , I think there is a rise of problems across the sport , but it seems never ending here . 
Plus we changed the pitch last summer , new base and different design I believe . 
Both HPC & the Gate are the same pitches BTW.

Not sure what that leaves to be able to point the finger at .  Not a straight forward fix , obviously.

We seem to have had more than our fair share .

 

We did have significantly fewer problems after the arrival of Pearson & Rennie.

Joe Williams is an example of how much his availability improved.

Atkinson & Benarous are outliers, ACLs are impossible to predict, I looked at the availability of our core squad apart from those two & Naismith is really the only poor one.

Running two light of a sensible number doesn’t help, either.

[pongo88]

10 hours ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Pay his contract up hes a waste of space . Best performance,this year was in Robins T.V .

The logic of this is lost on me. If his contract is paid up it will cost the City the same amount of money that it would if he stayed. It would also involve an upfront cost which compared to phased payments is bad for cash flow (though in the overall scheme of things it’s a small percentage of the total costs). If he stays at least there is a possibility that he might get on the pitch before the end of the season 

[Shauntaylor85]

1 hour ago, Cityboy1954 said:

All club get injuries but its been four to five years now something seriously wrong they are out for months on end not just dhort term seems to be i hate to say it since the HPC centre was built .

This exactly. High performance centre, change that straight away because I don’t see anything but low performance and injuries galore. 

[Merrick's Marvels]

27 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The logic of this is lost on me. If his contract is paid up it will cost the City the same amount of money that it would if he stayed. It would also involve an upfront cost which compared to phased payments is bad for cash flow (though in the overall scheme of things it’s a small percentage of the total costs). If he stays at least there is a possibility that he might get on the pitch before the end of the season 

Agreed, there would be extra cost in paying him up and finding a replacement.

Personally, I think the extra cost is worth it!

Option 1 - Keep him at a cost of X and in return get 10 games of him, probably involving a couple of calamitous cock ups, some eye-catching passes and not much else. Wow.

Option 2 - Get rid and find a replacement at a cost of X + Y but in return get (god willing) 30+ appearances and no calamitous cock ups. Yes please. 

Whatever X + Y  would equate to has to be financially sensible, of course. But we are in a decent place regarding FFP right now.

And as we're running a squad low on numbers, carrying passengers who are always injured is a real problem.

So it's Option 2 for me, all day long.     

Of course, we'd have to find a buyer. And he'd have to agree to move. Both of which are unlikely.

So we're stuck with him for one more year, earning money for nothing. I imagine he's "good in the dressing room" though and, as a vast amount of experience is likely to leave in the summer, perhaps that will count for something. Not much but something.  And, as I say, I'd personally much rather have someone who's actually available to play and contribute on the pitch, not commentating on "Pravda" TV. 

Edited March 15 by Merrick's Marvels

[Redrascal2]

10 hours ago, Cityboy1954 said:

Pay his contract up hes a waste of space . Best performance,this year was in Robins T.V .

Permanently injured sadly. Surely needs to be moved on anyway we can and taken off the wage bill.

[IAmNick]

31 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

The logic of this is lost on me. If his contract is paid up it will cost the City the same amount of money that it would if he stayed. It would also involve an upfront cost which compared to phased payments is bad for cash flow (though in the overall scheme of things it’s a small percentage of the total costs). If he stays at least there is a possibility that he might get on the pitch before the end of the season 

Presumably though there is a cost (not necessarily monetary) of every player being at the club though - physio time, whatever training they can do, medical time, and so on?

You might also be able to negotiate some lower lump sum I guess, the benefit for the player being they can take that and then potentially get a new contract elsewhere.

Edited March 15 by IAmNick

[Nomad]

19 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

Presumably though there is a cost (not necessarily monetary) of every player being at the club though - physio time, whatever training they can do, medical time, and so on?

You might also be able to negotiate some lower lump sum I guess, the benefit for the player being they can take that and then potentially get a new contract 

If it is just a niggle why would we offload? If it's a long term injury a player is unlikely to get a contract elsewhere. 

[IAmNick]

2 minutes ago, Nomad said:

If it is just a niggle why would we offload? If it's a long term injury a player is unlikely to get a contract elsewhere. 

I'm not saying we should, just that it's more complicated than saying the cost to the club is the same whether you try and offload a player or just keep them for the duration of their contract.

[Numero Uno]

11 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

His availability was good to respectable e.g. his prior clubs, so was that of Twine at Hull, Williams was robust across Barnsley, Bolton, Wigan shall I go on..

But then again the likes of Vyner and Dickie don't miss 15 games a season. I do wonder about pitches, said that before but you do also wonder whether the club is doing something fundamentally wrong on the fitness side of things.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

We did have significantly fewer problems after the arrival of Pearson & Rennie.

Joe Williams is an example of how much his availability improved.

Atkinson & Benarous are outliers, ACLs are impossible to predict, I looked at the availability of our core squad apart from those two & Naismith is really the only poor one.

Running two light of a sensible number doesn’t help, either.

Think the key is distinguishing the different types and their causes.

I’m not one to diss the medical teams (not even Rolls), so if you’re gonna slur a medical professional, make sure of your facts firstly, but also make sure you don’t open yourself up after the event.

What we saw over time under Rennie was a reduction in muscle injuries like hamstrings, calf’s and quads.  Rennie said it took them a long time to achieve this because of the base levels of the players when he arrived.  He also said that the number of days players trained was up as a result.  We did get hit my a couple of ACLs.

JL - we were in danger of becoming deconditioned (referring to time off over the international break)

BT - tight squad…we need to trained a certain way to avoid injuries

I wonder what they are thinking at this point in time?

[1960maaan]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

We did have significantly fewer problems after the arrival of Pearson & Rennie.

Joe Williams is an example of how much his availability improved.

Atkinson & Benarous are outliers, ACLs are impossible to predict, I looked at the availability of our core squad apart from those two & Naismith is really the only poor one.

Running two light of a sensible number doesn’t help, either.

Another thing I liked with the previous regime , the other coaches and staff were encouraged to do interviews .
I found the Dave Rennie one about the Hamstring situation really interesting. At that point you just knew things were going in the right direction and problems were being spotted, assessed and acted on . 

Since that lot went , I'm not the only one to question fitness across the squad . Now we appear to be playing players with injuries and knocks , I feel it's not a recipe for success .

[Simon bristol]

1 hour ago, Edgy Red said:

Injuries aside, i've not been overly impressed by Naismith and i'm still not sure what Nige's plan was when he brought him in?

He's clearly not mobile or physical enough to play as a centre back in a back 4, so i can only think that Nige wanted to play a back 5 all the time?

I can remember numerous times when he gave the ball away which led to us conceding, and for the wages he's reportedly on, he's been a bit of a disaster really.

His one successful season at Luton appears to have got him his nice final big contract before he moves on a free to Partick Thistle!

Have to agree, we could make much better use of that wage, shame we are committed to it for a while longer.

[Simon bristol]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Another thing I liked with the previous regime , the other coaches and staff were encouraged to do interviews .
I found the Dave Rennie one about the Hamstring situation really interesting. At that point you just knew things were going in the right direction and problems were being spotted, assessed and acted on . 

Since that lot went , I'm not the only one to question fitness across the squad . Now we appear to be playing players with injuries and knocks , I feel it's not a recipe for success .

Its not a recipe for success, but with a smaller squad, the injury situation snowballs, had oleary vyner or dickie got injured we would be in big trouble, but by playing every game its more likely they will be picking up knocks, prings got something going on now as well. We obviously concentrate on our players, i wonder just how we compare to others?