Bottom 3 in 2024 table - Tinnion defend this (sackable)

[GrahamC]

Just now, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I also don't mind that he has a ruthless edge to him.  Danny Wilson was an all round nice man and his team reacted by spending their evenings out on the piss and then failing to win through the play-offs.

 

Fair play to him for stepping up & making a side that made the playoffs two years running then finish 7th, eh?

Real progress.

Ward, GJ & Cotterill all got us automatically promoted in their first full season.

[LondonBristolian]

I find this thread completely disrespectful and disproportionate. Hasn’t everyone seen how well we are doing in the under-18s cup?

[cityal]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

And on this, other than the obvious Scott and Semenyo points, any monetary issues will be worsened by the fact that Liam Manning appears to be on a one man mission to destroy the confidence and value of our most saleable asset.

IMO the issue is that it's not just Conway - this time last year fans were often also praising Pring, Tanner, Vyner, and Bell (to a lesser extent). All of these players were likely increasing in value and some were rumoured to be drawing admiring glances from other clubs. It would be hard to argue ANY of these players have increased in value this season, though injuries have palyed a part in this.

Behind all of the players above we could see progress too in OTC, Knight-lebel, Leeson, Kadji, Araoye. It may be a false impression given by the fact that we see fewer academy prospects on the bench and getting minutes, but it feels like the very clear and much talked about "pathway" that existed under the previous regime has been covered over by the weeds.

[Numero Uno]

49 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Out of reps, but a big hat tip to your detailed knowledge of how the Academy works.

What I would say is that whilst an organisation becomes good from having talented individuals it requires good management in order to empower and encourage those individuals to shine.

The Academy has done well under Tinnion's management and that Academy stars individually credit particular individuals with most contributing to their development that doesn't take away that he has been in overall charge and so empowering and encouraging those individual successes to happen.

That doesn't make him the best thing since sliced bread but it is to his credit.

I also don't mind that he has a ruthless edge to him.  Danny Wilson was an all round nice man and his team reacted by spending their evenings out on the piss and then failing to win through the play-offs.

 

Our lads were on the piss Saturday evening and the manager of the football operation at the club is................apart from stabbing a couple in the back then picking his own man who is boring most of the fanbase who pay to watch his shite into submission, what has this "ruthless" bloke actually achieved ABOVE academy level?

[Eddie Hitler]

12 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Our lads were on the piss Saturday evening and the manager of the football operation at the club is................apart from stabbing a couple in the back then picking his own man who is boring most of the fanbase who pay to watch his shite into submission, what has this "ruthless" bloke actually achieved ABOVE academy level?

 

I know this isn't strict forum etiquette here but it is possible to hold a nuanced view of somebody rather than opting for the usual binary hate / love opposition.

I think that Tinnion has done good work at the Academy and is therefore not automatically some useless Machiavellian schemer who wants sacking because of "what he done to our Nige" and that we should be mounting a hate campaign to see him ousted.

This is a normal bloke with a job and a mortgage who was being cheered as the best thing since sliced bread not so long ago after an earlier spot on SOTC discussing the Academy and how it worked with NP, and is now apparently the devil incarnate who is trying to destroy our club from within.  Maybe he is neither.

On another thread I pointed out the source of a term that Joey Barton had used and then I had one poster trying to start a huge row with me as he was delighted, in his mind, to have found a Barton-supporter with whom he could have a row.  That I actually can't stand the lying violent criminal clearly hadn't entered his mind, I had posted something that was not entirely and unequivocally critical of Barton and therefore I must be a fan of his.

It's schoolroom stuff.

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

We only have monetary issues because Lansdown has decided to pocket the Semenyo and  Scott money.

Absolutely not sure about that.

Cash Flow in the next few years will show proof one way or another but I don't see that as being the case. Profit on Disposal will show as it did with Semenyo in any case.

Hull until takeover and Sheffield Wednesday and possibly WBA to a limited degree are two examples of where the owner has begun taking money out of the club. ie clawing back loans. I don't yet see evidence that SL is doing this.

Edited March 18 by Mr Popodopolous

[Gillies Downs Leeds]

2 hours ago, Countryfile said:

Spot on.

Should be pinned to anything to do with Tinnion and the Academy.

Did you work for the Academy at any point?
 

Tinnion moved on some very capable people after Gary Probert left.

Yep indeed he did. One I know is now working for Man U. When released from City he had offers from multiple championship and Premier league teams.

[Numero Uno]

18 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I know this isn't strict forum etiquette here but it is possible to hold a nuanced view of somebody rather than opting for the usual binary hate / love opposition.

I think that Tinnion has done good work at the Academy and is therefore not automatically some useless Machiavellian schemer who wants sacking because of "what he done to our Nige" and that we should be mounting a hate campaign to see him ousted.

This is a normal bloke with a job and a mortgage who was being cheered as the best thing since sliced bread not so long ago after an earlier spot on SOTC discussing the Academy and how it worked with NP, and is now apparently the devil incarnate who is trying to destroy our club from within.  Maybe he is neither.

On another thread I pointed out the source of a term that Joey Barton had used and then I had one poster trying to start a huge row with me as he was delighted, in his mind, to have found a Barton-supporter with whom he could have a row.  That I actually can't stand the lying violent criminal clearly hadn't entered his mind, I had posted something that was not entirely and unequivocally critical of Barton and therefore I must be a fan of his.

It's schoolroom stuff.

As far as I'm concerned his own actions have proven (to me anyway) beyond all reasonable doubt that he has been grossly over-promoted to his current role. As a result, yes, I want to see him relieved of those duties. I don't know whether he has a mortgage or not, in terms of whether he should be running the football operation of the club I buy a season ticket for, that really isn't a concern of mine tbf. In the same way that when the club increase season ticket prices nobody rings fans up asking whether they have a mortgage and what effect a season ticket price hike will have on that.

[Eddie Hitler]

14 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

As far as I'm concerned his own actions have proven (to me anyway) beyond all reasonable doubt that he has been grossly over-promoted to his current role. As a result, yes, I want to see him relieved of those duties. I don't know whether he has a mortgage or not, in terms of whether he should be running the football operation of the club I buy a season ticket for, that really isn't a concern of mine tbf. In the same way that when the club increase season ticket prices nobody rings fans up asking whether they have a mortgage and what effect a season ticket price hike will have on that.

 

Which is a perfectly valid, and I would say nuanced viewpoint.

If only more posts were as thoughtful.

[Bristol Oil Services]

42 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

It's schoolroom stuff.

Reading? Writing? Arithmetic? Paper machè? Show and tell? Show me your's, I'll show you mine? 

[Eddie Hitler]

12 minutes ago, Bristol Oil Services said:

Reading? Writing? Arithmetic? Paper machè? Show and tell? Show me your's, I'll show you mine? 

 

Miss, he's at it again!

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Absolutely not sure about that.

Cash Flow in the next few years will show proof one way or another but I don't see that as being the case. Profit on Disposal will show as it did with Semenyo in any case.

Hull until takeover and Sheffield Wednesday and possibly WBA to a limited degree are two examples of where the owner has begun taking money out of the club. ie clawing back loans. I don't yet see evidence that SL is doing this.

'nest egg'

last summers withholding transfer funds.   just 2 examples

[Mr Popodopolous]

38 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

'nest egg'

last summers withholding transfer funds.   just 2 examples

Okay fair, I'll still reserve judgment. My take for now, is it is more a case of using it as a way to put in less equity/cash flow/loans whatever from £x to £y.

The proof will be in the Accounts over the next 2-3 years.

Sheffield Wednesday is literally clawing back, a negative net cash flow out to reduce the Loan Balance or has been in recent times. Hull I haven't looked at for a while.

Edited March 18 by Mr Popodopolous

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I know this isn't strict forum etiquette here but it is possible to hold a nuanced view of somebody rather than opting for the usual binary hate / love opposition.

I think that Tinnion has done good work at the Academy and is therefore not automatically some useless Machiavellian schemer who wants sacking because of "what he done to our Nige" and that we should be mounting a hate campaign to see him ousted.

This is a normal bloke with a job and a mortgage who was being cheered as the best thing since sliced bread not so long ago after an earlier spot on SOTC discussing the Academy and how it worked with NP, and is now apparently the devil incarnate who is trying to destroy our club from within.  Maybe he is neither.

On another thread I pointed out the source of a term that Joey Barton had used and then I had one poster trying to start a huge row with me as he was delighted, in his mind, to have found a Barton-supporter with whom he could have a row.  That I actually can't stand the lying violent criminal clearly hadn't entered his mind, I had posted something that was not entirely and unequivocally critical of Barton and therefore I must be a fan of his.

It's schoolroom stuff.

I do agree with this.  And it is worth noting that - up until the beginning of the season - I don’t recall anyone ‘in the know’ on here ever even hinting at problems between Tinnion and Pearson. But suddenly he seems to have become the prime mover behind Tinnion’s sacking and responsible for everything that has gone with the club, whilst it seems that everything positive he has been credited with since he returned to the club is a sham and an illusion.

As with so many things, I suspect there are elements of truth and elements of interpretation.

Certainly I think it fair to say that the current structure, and his role within it,  has some major problems. There is a lack of experience throughout the senior roles at the club and that is really showing. And there also seems to be a major lack of PR savvy and ability to read the room. 

It is very obvious from the panicked hastily arranged interviews and multiple inconsistent explanations that followed Pearson’s sacking that the senior figures at the club did not anticipate the strength of fan reaction that followed Pearson’s sacking. 

However what I find even more revealing was something said during the SotC interview last week - essentially that Tinnion wanted to come on to talk about the youth team but then got told by Radio Bristol that he would need to answer questions about the first team too. The whole idea that the Technical Director of a Championship genuinely believed in the first place that he  might be able to go on the radio and NOT be asked about the first team shows a massive lack of awareness of what the fans and media are want. 

It is also fair to say that Tinnion’s first major recruitment has been a disaster and is not succeeding on the terms either the fans expected or the club set out.

But ultimately any organisation needs to make sure the appointments they make - even at a senior level - have the support they need to succeed. Tinnion has been at the club long enough that the Chair, owner and board should know his strengths and weaknesses. And it seems like nothing has been put in place in the new structure to help him develop or offset his less strong points. 

I suspect that Tinnion actually does have a skillset that is good for the long term future of the club. There has obviously been a degree of strategy and planning around youth development and long term continuity that he should be credited for. But it is also obvious that PR and press interviews are not his strength and the learning from Manning should be that, if he is trusted to recruit a manager again, he needs support at the very least to ensure that the manager he finds meets the expectations he has set out.

But personally I don’t think the above is necessarily a reason to sack a long term employee before at least trying other solutions.

The club urgently need to look at the top end structure and get some additional experience and knowledge in for sure. I do not think that necessarily means Tinnion has to be sacked but it does mean, as with any employee in any structure, the club need to find a way to utilise his strengths, offset his weaknesses and ensure he is not left exposed to become the scapegoat for every decision taken.

Edited March 18 by LondonBristolian
Pressed enter too soon!

[Davefevs]

@LondonBristolian all very fair, and I’m pretty much aligned with it.  I don’t have “beef” with Tinnion, but he will have been consulted on Nige’s sacking (and the other three also), and he most definitely played a heavy role in landing upon Liam Manning as the successor.

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

I do agree with this.  And it is worth noting that - up until the beginning of the season - I don’t recall anyone ‘in the know’ on here ever even hinting at problems between Tinnion and Pearson. But suddenly he seems to have become the prime mover behind Tinnion’s sacking and responsible for everything that has gone with the club, whilst it seems that everything positive he has been credited with since he returned to the club is a sham and an illusion.

As with so many things, I suspect there are elements of truth and elements of interpretation.

Certainly I think it fair to say that the current structure, and his role within it,  has some major problems. There is a lack of experience throughout the senior roles at the club and that is really showing. And there also seems to be a major lack of PR savvy and ability to read the room. 

It is very obvious from the panicked hastily arranged interviews and multiple inconsistent explanations that followed Pearson’s sacking that the senior figures at the club did not anticipate the strength of fan reaction that followed Pearson’s sacking. 

However what I find even more revealing was something said during the SotC interview last week - essentially that Tinnion wanted to come on to talk about the youth team but then got told by Radio Bristol that he would need to answer questions about the first team too. The whole idea that the Technical Director of a Championship genuinely believed in the first place that he  might be able to go on the radio and NOT be asked about the first team shows a massive lack of awareness of what the fans and media are want. 

It is also fair to say that Tinnion’s first major recruitment has been a disaster and is not succeeding on the terms either the fans expected or the club set out.

But ultimately any organisation needs to make sure the appointments they make - even at a senior level - have the support they need to succeed. Tinnion has been at the club long enough that the Chair, owner and board should know his strengths and weaknesses. And it seems like nothing has been put in place in the new structure to help him develop or offset his less strong points. 

I suspect that Tinnion actually does have a skillset that is good for the long term future of the club. There has obviously been a degree of strategy and planning around youth development and long term continuity that he should be credited for. But it is also obvious that PR and press interviews are not his strength and the learning from Manning should be that, if he is trusted to recruit a manager again, he needs support at the very least to ensure that the manager he finds meets the expectations he has set out.

But personally I don’t think the above is necessarily a reason to sack a long term employee before at least trying other solutions.

The club urgently need to look at the top end structure and get some additional experience and knowledge in for sure. I do not think that necessarily means Tinnion has to be sacked but it does mean, as with any employee in any structure, the club need to find a way to utilise his strengths, offset his weaknesses and ensure he is not left exposed to become the scapegoat for every decision taken.

If only.

[Sir Geoff]

3 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I do agree with this.  And it is worth noting that - up until the beginning of the season - I don’t recall anyone ‘in the know’ on here ever even hinting at problems between Tinnion and Pearson. But suddenly he seems to have become the prime mover behind Tinnion’s sacking and responsible for everything that has gone with the club, whilst it seems that everything positive he has been credited with since he returned to the club is a sham and an illusion.

As with so many things, I suspect there are elements of truth and elements of interpretation.

Certainly I think it fair to say that the current structure, and his role within it,  has some major problems. There is a lack of experience throughout the senior roles at the club and that is really showing. And there also seems to be a major lack of PR savvy and ability to read the room. 

It is very obvious from the panicked hastily arranged interviews and multiple inconsistent explanations that followed Pearson’s sacking that the senior figures at the club did not anticipate the strength of fan reaction that followed Pearson’s sacking. 

However what I find even more revealing was something said during the SotC interview last week - essentially that Tinnion wanted to come on to talk about the youth team but then got told by Radio Bristol that he would need to answer questions about the first team too. The whole idea that the Technical Director of a Championship genuinely believed in the first place that he  might be able to go on the radio and NOT be asked about the first team shows a massive lack of awareness of what the fans and media are want. 

It is also fair to say that Tinnion’s first major recruitment has been a disaster and is not succeeding on the terms either the fans expected or the club set out.

But ultimately any organisation needs to make sure the appointments they make - even at a senior level - have the support they need to succeed. Tinnion has been at the club long enough that the Chair, owner and board should know his strengths and weaknesses. And it seems like nothing has been put in place in the new structure to help him develop or offset his less strong points. 

I suspect that Tinnion actually does have a skillset that is good for the long term future of the club. There has obviously been a degree of strategy and planning around youth development and long term continuity that he should be credited for. But it is also obvious that PR and press interviews are not his strength and the learning from Manning should be that, if he is trusted to recruit a manager again, he needs support at the very least to ensure that the manager he finds meets the expectations he has set out.

But personally I don’t think the above is necessarily a reason to sack a long term employee before at least trying other solutions.

The club urgently need to look at the top end structure and get some additional experience and knowledge in for sure. I do not think that necessarily means Tinnion has to be sacked but it does mean, as with any employee in any structure, the club need to find a way to utilise his strengths, offset his weaknesses and ensure he is not left exposed to become the scapegoat for every decision taken.

A good start might be someone having a word about not blatantly lying to the fan base and making things up on radio to suit his agenda.

[Mr Popodopolous]

6 hours ago, GrahamC said:

Fair play to him for stepping up & making a side that made the playoffs two years running then finish 7th, eh?

Real progress.

Ward, GJ & Cotterill all got us automatically promoted in their first full season.

3rd, 3rd (Wilson)...

7th, freefall OUT (Tinnion).

[REDOXO]

9 hours ago, chinapig said:

We don't have anything that could reasonably be described as a Board. Therefore there is nobody to challenge the club's decisions.

Not something that most fans care about but the lack of good corporate governance is one of the fundamental reasons for our current state.

This is true! 
 

The decision makers are Junior and Tinman. They get the nod from the old man when required and the other bloke counts the money. 
 

Board of Directors not so much!

[LondonBristolian]

2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

A good start might be someone having a word about not blatantly lying to the fan base and making things up on radio to suit his agenda.

Quite. But I think a lot of that is someone with no media training, no clear guidance on the club line of what he can and cannot say and a lack of confidence on radio. Ultimately he should not be doing any interviews where he hasn't got the questions in advance and it'd be absurd if the club put him to do that a third time.

[LondonBristolian]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@LondonBristolian all very fair, and I’m pretty much aligned with it.  I don’t have “beef” with Tinnion, but he will have been consulted on Nige’s sacking (and the other three also), and he most definitely played a heavy role in landing upon Liam Manning as the successor.

Sure. And I certainly don't want to absolve Tinnion from responsibility on the sacking. And certainly not on the appointment. But, whilst I think Pearson's sacking was a terrible decision and certainly motivated by personality clashes from at least some people's perspectives, I don't think that automatically means that every single person involved in the decision was acting out of personal agenda.

And, in terms of Manning, I'd quite happily agree with anyone that said it proved Tinnion should not be allowed to recruit another manager.  But I also think people can mistakes without necessarily needing to be sacked to put those mistakes right. There's obviously a certain irony in standing up for Tinnion on those grounds given what happened to Pearson but I'd feel inconsistent if I demanded Tinnion's sacking on the basis of a few errors and some perceived character flaws. Undoubtedly his role needs to be changed for it to work but I don't think it necessarily requires a sacking. 

Edited March 18 by LondonBristolian

[REDOXO]

The club is pretty sophisticated in some ways, like most in the championship. 
 

There are lists of players that are updated constantly. This I am informed applies to managers and coaches. 
 

For the firing of Pearson his team and hiring of Manning to have taken place that quickly he must have been top of the list and obviously already identified. (I’ll brush over the scumbaggery that went along with it in which JL and BT were front and center)

I just hope the new bloke is already identified and the laughably called board of directors are tapping him up as we speak!

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

The club is pretty sophisticated in some ways, like most in the championship. 
 

There are lists of players that are updated constantly. This I am informed applies to managers and coaches. 
 

For the firing of Pearson his team and hiring of Manning to have taken place that quickly he must have been top of the list and obviously already identified. (I’ll brush over the scumbaggery that went along with it in which JL and BT were front and center)

I just hope the new bloke is already identified and the laughably called board of directors are tapping him up as we speak!

 

[ENOUGH]

10 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

I find this thread completely disrespectful and disproportionate. Hasn’t everyone seen how well we are doing in the under-18s cup?

and we did beat that team from down south f.f,s time for fans to do something; where is our chairman for christs sake .....fall on your sword and GO

Edited March 18 by mason

[Superjack]

36 minutes ago, mason said:

and we did beat that team from down south f.f,s time for fans to do something; where is our chairman for christs sake .....fall on your sword and GO

[REDOXO]

43 minutes ago, Superjack said:

 

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

[Fuber]

11 hours ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Out of reps, but a big hat tip to your detailed knowledge of how the Academy works.

What I would say is that whilst an organisation becomes good from having talented individuals it requires good management in order to empower and encourage those individuals to shine.

The Academy has done well under Tinnion's management and that Academy stars individually credit particular individuals with most contributing to their development that doesn't take away that he has been in overall charge and so empowering and encouraging those individual successes to happen.

That doesn't make him the best thing since sliced bread but it is to his credit.

I also don't mind that he has a ruthless edge to him.  Danny Wilson was an all round nice man and his team reacted by spending their evenings out on the piss and then failing to win through the play-offs.

 

The problem with the point in bold, EH, is that if he empowered them - they would stay.

Probert chose to follow Ashton to Ipswich - a division below at the time, rather than stay under Tinnion - rather than allow Probert to advance with us, he left to become Director of Football, as he was never getting that sort of offer here over and above Tinnion. Adding to that he seems to have gone from strength to strength, makes me think - at least on the evidence, that he was the main brains of the operation.
I could be wrong, but I think Probert was a Gareth Jennings (?) appointment - who went onto return to Leicester as Academy Manager back in 2015 - was a Keith Burt appointment I think.

[Superjack]

2 minutes ago, Fuber said:

The problem with the point in bold, EH, is that if he empowered them - they would stay.

Probert chose to follow Ashton to Ipswich - a division below at the time, rather than stay under Tinnion - rather than allow Probert to advance with us, he left to become Director of Football, as he was never getting that sort of offer here over and above Tinnion. Adding to that he seems to have gone from strength to strength, makes me think - at least on the evidence, that he was the main brains of the operation.
I could be wrong, but I think Probert was a Gareth Jennings (?) appointment - who went onto return to Leicester as Academy Manager back in 2015 - was a Keith Burt appointment I think.

Do you think?....

[fgrsimon]

23 hours ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Actually you could argue all 3 of these teams made an unnecessary managerial change (and Sunderland who are 5th bottom of this table).

Rotherham have certainly got even worse after sacking Matty Taylor and he kept them up last season, which has to be seen as a success.

Will anyone learn from this? I doubt it.