Board rebuild first...

[extonsred]

applies to all topics.

[exAtyeoMax]

21 minutes ago, extonsred said:

applies to all topics.

yes totally agree. 

[Street red]

Yep nothing will change otherwise.

[Davefevs]

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

[TV Tom]

Far far easier said than done

[Glen hump]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

There are at least a couple who have a lot of space in their mind 

[Moulin Rougier]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

I think you're right, if the person was talented enough and willing enough to 'play the game'. I do think, no matter how good you are, there will always be a ceiling with the current structure (which I find increasingly bizarre) and incumbents (less said the better) though. I just can't see their willingness to be influenced bending too much!

The value of the work Richard Gould did is becoming increasingly evident day by day! Dam his love of cricket!

[LondonBristolian]

1 hour ago, extonsred said:

applies to all topics.

Very harsh in my view. OTIB is much better than most fans forums. And today’s security update was done before most of us even noticed it was happening! I say we give the mods some credit.

[extonsred]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

Don't think anyone decent would dream of coming here with the present set up. Noone to oversee development in a number of areas and support will be of no interest to any applicant.

[Glen hump]

6 minutes ago, extonsred said:

Don't think anyone decent would dream of coming here with the present set up. Noone to oversee development in a number of areas and support will be of no interest to any applicant.

But we’ve already got a top end squad’ what’s not to like’

[ExiledAjax]

49 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

Even so, it will only ever be able to go so far. We saw that with Pearson (and even to an extent with Johnson/Ashton). 

Yes a manager with the right stuff might be able to perform, and get a song out of the squad, but as you say he'd always be doing it despite the structure and egos above him rather than because of them.

These guys have proven their resistance to innovation, to change, to ideas (despite the ironic statements of a desire to emulate [Brighton/Brentford/Luton/Ipswich]). They're like the bad boy that a series of girlfriends think they can "change". They resist, and eventually it's the girlfriend who goes. At some point the two groups - ownership and coaching - will come to blows. This is what I was always getting at when I used to say that Pearson wouldn't get us promoted and would fall out with the hierarchy eventually (especially once the buffer of Gould was removed, Alexander was too like Pearson tbh). He had a record of it, and the Lansdowns and Marshall are primed for it.

You have to have true alignment to build long-lasting success. You also have to have people willing to truly delegate powers to those who should wield them. 

Whilst we have two directors beholden to the ultimate owner, we will not have that. We have a de facto dictatorship and in my opinion within that set up every manager will either become subsumed by the miasma of mediocrity (Manning, Johnson), or he'll die trying to disperse it (Pearson, Cotterill, even Coppell).

Edited March 18 by ExiledAjax

[extonsred]

Excellent expansion of topic! Spot on. 

[Davefevs]

@Moulin Rougier and @ExiledAjax - yes, I think you’re right in terms of ceiling / how far.  I guess I’d rather get a new manager in place, build something on the pitch that might give time for the ownership situation to resolve itself.

[exAtyeoMax]

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Moulin Rougier and @ExiledAjax - yes, I think you’re right in terms of ceiling / how far.  I guess I’d rather get a new manager in place, build something on the pitch that might give time for the ownership situation to resolve itself.

I'm not so sure. Would they employ someone with the balls to challenge the hierarchy? 

When I'm considering board level, I'm thinking JL and BT. 

[fisherrich]

No point getting rid of Manning as noone decent is gonna come here to work for this tinpot club. Laughing stock.

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Moulin Rougier and @ExiledAjax - yes, I think you’re right in terms of ceiling / how far.  I guess I’d rather get a new manager in place, build something on the pitch that might give time for the ownership situation to resolve itself.

And, I think there is an argument to say that realistically we only need someone who can get us going for what...35-40 league games?

What do we actually need to do to get a top 6 spot and maybe promotion?

70-75 points (70 is probably enough but let's get ambitious). If someone can get us to a point where we turn in 1.9ppg over 38 games we land on 72. 

So there is a case to say that it's legit to get someone very high calibre in, and give him a season. One season. Put up with the drama behind the scenes, and get the team performing enough to just do it. Ismael?

This is probably much much harder to do than it is to write, and it would be at the cost of absolutely all long-term planning or structuring. But the skeleton and underlying position of the Club next season has an awful lot of potential. Would be a shame to waste that.

[Clutton Caveman]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

No decent manager will work under the current set up.

[beaverface]

Not sure if this is the correct thread to be placing this comment, but I wonder if Scott Davidson would be open to coming back as Chairman, with JL moving into a different position i.e. President etc.

Always thought that Scott had the ambition and communication skills for the role. He never got things 100% right, but his heart was in the right place, and he's still heavily involved with various Bristol City related projects still.

Edited March 18 by beaverface

[Mattredrobin]

Agree with this 100%, to be successful we need somebody new with fresh ideas, does not matter who we have in charge currently. 

[BrizzleRed]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

@Moulin Rougier and @ExiledAjax - yes, I think you’re right in terms of ceiling / how far.  I guess I’d rather get a new manager in place, build something on the pitch that might give time for the ownership situation to resolve itself.

The conundrum is, what are the chances of this shower actually identifying, or even wanting that right manager, let alone convincing them to come here under the current regime?

It feels like we’re in a real catch 22 situation right now and the only way it appears that can be broken is if the man at the top decides to finally sell up.

[Mattredrobin]

1 minute ago, beaverface said:

Not sure if this is the correct thread to be placing this comment, but I wonder if Scott Davidson would be open to coming back as Chairman, with JL moving into a different position i.e. President etc.

Always thought that Scott had the ambition and communication skills for the role. He ever got things 100% right, but his heart was in the right place, and he's still heavily involved with various Bristol City related projects still.

Not sure you can suggest that the lansdowns heart is not in the right place, Steve Lansdown has provided so much for this club we should be massively grateful.

[Kid in the Riot]

30 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Whilst we have two directors beholden to the ultimate owner, we will not have that. We have a de facto dictatorship and in my opinion within that set up every manager will either become subsumed by the miasma of mediocrity (Manning, Johnson), or he'll die trying to disperse it (Pearson, Cotterill, even Coppell).

Paragraph of the year!

 

[beaverface]

8 minutes ago, Mattredrobin said:

Not sure you can suggest that the lansdowns heart is not in the right place, Steve Lansdown has provided so much for this club we should be massively grateful.

I can categorically say that I am NOT suggesting the Lansdown's heart hasn't been in it, because I think they have put a lot of time, effort and money into the club, I just feel they're just losing their sense of direction nowadays and aren't reading the room any more.

I'm merely commenting on Scott Davidson's previously putting his heart into the roll. Please don't infer it any other way.

[Mattredrobin]

Must have been the way I read it I apologise, Totally agree with you on that it has that feel that it may be time to move on for them. (Tinnion as new chairman ?......That is a joke before I get shot down )

[red panda]

Strangely I think we could still be quite attractive to a potential manager.  With a typical managerial ego, they might well think they can be the one to turn this "sleeping giant" around and make their name.  And despite all the criticisms of the structure, that stats show that we do typically give managers more time than most other Championship clubs.

[Nugget]

Worryingly there's threads like this each time before the next re-shuffle almost identical. For someone so successful, they've made some very expensive mistakes ironically going for the cheaper option in the short-term.

[ExiledAjax]

45 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Paragraph of the year!

All I've done is summarise the many many great posts and thoughts that everyone posts on here all the time.

But thank you.

[Shauntaylor85]

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I still think a manager could perform in spite of what’s above him…and actually influence those above to change / educate them.  But appreciate it might need an ally or at least someone with an open mind in there too.

I agree Dave, I think the issue here is Manning is not the right fit nor is he up to the task. 

[Eddie Hitler]

1 hour ago, beaverface said:

I can categorically say that I am NOT suggesting the Lansdown's heart hasn't been in it, because I think they have put a lot of time, effort and money into the club, I just feel they're just losing their sense of direction nowadays and aren't reading the room any more.

I'm merely commenting on Scott Davidson's previously putting his heart into the roll. Please don't infer it any other way.

 

The problem is that outside of the top premiership clubs who make money football clubs aren't comparable to other PLCs with vast numbers of shareholders and independent board members because they are hugely loss making and rely upon a single large shareholder putting ?£10m a year in, or whatever, to keep them solvent.

If I owned a club and it was personally financing it to that degree then I wouldn't be giving other board members the power to overrule me.

The ideal is probably a Scott Davison type Chairman bringing in, as he did, wealthy individuals as shareholders and directors to fund the club and make decisions collectively.

SL has said he is open to new investors coming in so maybe that will happen and SL will take the Scott Davison role, until then he's paying for everything so he's going to make the decisions.

I would do that, anyone would do that.

[Gert Mare]

I think it’s very difficult for any manger / head coach to be successful at this level with the current regime in place.

The is definitely a change in culture required.

Micro-management and mistrust need to be replaced by trust, delegation of responsibility, integrity, authenticity innovation and collaboration.

Drop the ‘them and us’ attitude, create unity (definitely visible during Nigel’s reign - at least externally)

Give the manager / head coach the ability to identify their own targets, not just pick one or two from a list identified by the hierarchy. 

Obviously there needs to be an understanding of our financial position and a pathway for our academy players, but the priority should be to preserve current league status as a minimum.

Don’t sack a manager / head coach unless the club is in a relegation battle (avoid instability).

As soon as directors say things like “It’s my club”, well, that said all I needed to know a few years back.

Will always be grateful for the investment, but future success requires a monumental shift in mindset and culture and I don’t think that the current regime is capable of that.

 

 

Edited March 18 by Gert Mare