TC - Scotland

[Tomo]

https://www.thenational.scot/sport/24196167.tommy-conway-aiming-high-targets-scotland-euro-2024-call-up/

[Sir Geoff]

Bet he regrets pulling out of last November's Internationals in favour of training with the 'new manager,' now.

[Gazred]

If Dykes can keep getting called up, there is surely hope for Tommy. Not exactly blessed with talent in that area of the pitch are they.

Forwards: Che Adams (Southampton), Lyndon Dykes (QPR), Lawrence Shankland (Hearts).

[pride of the west]

Just now, Gazred said:

If Dykes can keep getting called up, there is surely hope for Tommy. Not exactly blessed with talent in that area of the pitch are they.

Forwards: Che Adams (Southampton), Lyndon Dykes (QPR), Lawrence Shankland (Hearts).

I'd take any of then 3 to be fair

[DaveF]

1 minute ago, Gazred said:

If Dykes can keep getting called up, there is surely hope for Tommy. Not exactly blessed with talent in that area of the pitch are they.

Forwards: Che Adams (Southampton), Lyndon Dykes (QPR), Lawrence Shankland (Hearts).

He suits their one up top style much better than Conway though.

Jacob Brown and Kevin Nisbet also ahead of Conway. He's some way down the pecking order and not pulling up any trees this season in our new system so can't see it happening unfortunately.

[Gazred]

1 minute ago, DaveF said:

He suits their one up top style much better than Conway though.

Jacob Brown and Kevin Nisbet also ahead of Conway. He's some way down the pecking order and not pulling up any trees this season in our new system so can't see it happening unfortunately.

Agree he needs a better season to raise that profile and get himself in contention.

The competition is there but if I were TC I'd look at those ahead and feel confident I could get in the side.

Maybe he needs a move to fully realise his potential 

[elhombrecito]

I just feel sorry for him. Possibly his only chance to play at a major tournament (due to Scotland being ), and because of Mr Boring's tactics, hes not getting the chance to show how good he is.

[Merrick's Marvels]

9 minutes ago, Gazred said:

Agree he needs a better season to raise that profile and get himself in contention.

The competition is there but if I were TC I'd look at those ahead and feel confident I could get in the side.

Maybe he needs a move to fully realise his potential 

Bingo.

[Clutton Caveman]

27 minutes ago, Gazred said:

If Dykes can keep getting called up, there is surely hope for Tommy. Not exactly blessed with talent in that area of the pitch are they.

Forwards: Che Adams (Southampton), Lyndon Dykes (QPR), Lawrence Shankland (Hearts).

Not on his current form unless with the coaching from LM he can do a job in defence

[SydneyCity]

2 hours ago, Gazred said:

If Dykes can keep getting called up, there is surely hope for Tommy.

There is, but Tommy hit the nail on the head when he acknowledged that Steve Clarke has a very settled squad (that is consistently performing).

You have players like Lewis Ferguson -  Captain of a very exciting Bologna, currently sitting fourth in Serie A, having a phenomenal season - only just now getting called up into the squad.

It’s not impossible for TC, but Manningball has ruined his chances. He is more than good enough, but those currently in the squad deliver, and ultimately TC is not right now. I hope I’m wrong as I’d love to see him playing internationally.

Edited March 20 by SydneyCity

[Harry]

I’m not a Manning fan, but I don’t think we can blame him for Conway not being in the Scotland squad. 
He’s 21. He’s only had a handful of call ups to the u21’s. 
He’s got established players such as Adams, Dykes and Shankland in front of him. 
He’s also got a slightly more established and experienced Nisbet in front of him plus Brown who is playing Prem football. 
 

At best he’s 6th choice. Even if he’d scored his 4 or 5 one on ones he’s had since Manning came in, he’d still be 6th choice. 
 

ps - he has to get in above Medube too

Edited March 20 by Harry

[SydneyCity]

14 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don’t think we can blame him for Conway not being in the Scotland squad.

I don’t think we can blame him for TC not being in the squad, but I’ll blame him for removing any chance of him being in the squad.

If TC was tearing it up this season, it would still be hard for him to break-in, given the settled squad and those you’ve mentioned… but it wouldn’t be impossible. Currently I believe it is.

[Harry]

37 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

I don’t think we can blame him for TC not being in the squad, but I’ll blame him for removing any chance of him being in the squad.

If TC was tearing it up this season, it would still be hard for him to break-in, given the settled squad and those you’ve mentioned… but it wouldn’t be impossible. Currently I believe it is.

When you say “tearing it up”, what exactly do you mean? 
 

If we look at Conway’s goals to games/minutes ratio pre and post Manning, since the start of last season, we might have expected him to have scored around 1.5 more goals so far under Manning. 
Given he’s missed 5 one on ones, those extra 1.5 goals have been very much within his gift. 
 

When you say tearing it up, do you mean:

A) same level of scoring form as demonstrated over the prior 18 months = 1 or 2 extra goals 

or 

B) should we have expected 20 goals this season? 

Edited March 20 by Harry

[redkev]

4 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

Not on his current form unless with the coaching from LM he can do a job in defence

Or pass it sideways ( with no emotion and the correct behaviour ) 

[LondonBristolian]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

When you say “tearing it up”, what exactly do you mean? 
 

If we look at Conway’s goals to games/minutes ratio pre and post Manning, since the start of last season, we might have expected him to have scored around 1.5 more goals so far under Manning. 
Given he’s missed 5 one on ones, those extra 1.5 goals have been very much within his gift. 
 

When you say tearing it up, do you mean:

A) same level of scoring form as demonstrated over the prior 18 months = 1 or 2 extra goals 

or 

B) should we have expected 20 goals this season? 

Personally, I think we might have expected to see evidence of him pushing on a little more than he has as he's a year older with a bit more experience. Having got 12 in all competitions last year, I'd imagine he would have been targeting at least that in the league and maybe 15 or 16 overall. 

That said - whilst I think Manning has struggled to get the best out of him - I don't think it is all on Manning. The early season injury likely unsettled his rhythm and there were signs he was struggling a little for confidence before Manning started. Plus, new manager or not, he's not by any means the first young player to find his second season harder than the first. He needs to learn from it and push on next year, although the big question is whether or not that is with us. 

[Harry]

5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Personally, I think we might have expected to see evidence of him pushing on a little more than he has as he's a year older with a bit more experience. Having got 12 in all competitions last year, I'd imagine he would have been targeting at least that in the league and maybe 15 or 16 overall. 

That said - whilst I think Manning has struggled to get the best out of him - I don't think it is all on Manning. The early season injury likely unsettled his rhythm and there were signs he was struggling a little for confidence before Manning started. Plus, new manager or not, he's not by any means the first young player to find his second season harder than the first. He needs to learn from it and push on next year, although the big question is whether or not that is with us. 

So, had he scored 12 in the league so far rather than 7, would that have been enough to get him 3 places up the pecking order and selected for Scotland?
Personally, I doubt it. 
If he’d scored 20 so far this season then the prospects may look different. But he was never gonna do that whichever manager was in charge. 
So I don’t think we can blame Manning for him missing out. He was highly unlikely to be selected anyway, barring injury to 3 others or an absolute blinder of a season himself. 

Edited March 20 by Harry

[Superjack]

10 hours ago, elhombrecito said:

I just feel sorry for him. Possibly his only chance to play at a major tournament (due to Scotland being ), and because of Mr Boring's tactics, hes not getting the chance to show how good he is.

But it's worse than that for him. 

It's our owner's tactics. 

So no hope of things improving any time soon. 

He will go in the summer. And good on him.

[bpexile]

12 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Bet he regrets pulling out of last November's Internationals in favour of training with the 'new manager,' now.

According to the Post Tommy has said "Liam Manning has come in and I’m learning a lot under him. Huge credit to him and his assistants, I’ve learned a lot from them and I’m in a good place at the minute."

So, are we possibly missing something with LM (fwiw I don't think so) or is this just Tommy trying to protect his position until a move is made? 

[SydneyCity]

6 hours ago, Harry said:

When you say tearing it up, do you mean:

If TC had kicked on from last year.

You mentioned 12 goals so far as a possible benchmark. That sort of form puts him in good stead against those around him:

- Che Adam’s - 12 goals so far

- Lyndon Dykes - 5 goals so far

- Lawrence Shankland - 27 goals so far

- Kevin Nisbet - 5 goals so far

- Jacob Brown - 4 goals so far

Adam’s, Dykes, Nisbet play in the champ, Brown will likely be in the champ next season.

Shankland, despite his amazing form, is only just getting his chance, which suggests where Clarke sees the SPL. Shankland was in last time as Dykes was injured but is in for these next friendlies on his own merit.

So I still think that if TC was tearing it up / improved on last season, there’d be a legitimate conversation to be had about him being in. It would still be hard for him given all the reasons we’ve mentioned in previous comments, but not impossible. I still think Manningball has made it impossible for him and removed any conversation.

TC has also missed a few this season, but you could argue that a happy, well utilised, TC would have scored them and kicked on.

[Harry]

57 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

If TC had kicked on from last year.

You mentioned 12 goals so far as a possible benchmark. That sort of form puts him in good stead against those around him:

- Che Adam’s - 12 goals so far

- Lyndon Dykes - 5 goals so far

- Lawrence Shankland - 27 goals so far

- Kevin Nisbet - 5 goals so far

- Jacob Brown - 4 goals so far

Adam’s, Dykes, Nisbet play in the champ, Brown will likely be in the champ next season.

Shankland, despite his amazing form, is only just getting his chance, which suggests where Clarke sees the SPL. Shankland was in last time as Dykes was injured but is in for these next friendlies on his own merit.

So I still think that if TC was tearing it up / improved on last season, there’d be a legitimate conversation to be had about him being in. It would still be hard for him given all the reasons we’ve mentioned in previous comments, but not impossible. I still think Manningball has made it impossible for him and removed any conversation.

TC has also missed a few this season, but you could argue that a happy, well utilised, TC would have scored them and kicked on.

You mention again about “if he was tearing it up”. 
But what exactly do you mean by “tearing it up”? 
Are you talking 25 goals and 10 assists? 
20 goals? 15 goals? 
What constitutes “tearing it up” that would have been sufficient enough for him to be in the reckoning? 

[SydneyCity]

43 minutes ago, Harry said:

You mention again about “if he was tearing it up”. 
But what exactly do you mean by “tearing it up”? 
Are you talking 25 goals and 10 assists? 
20 goals? 15 goals? 
What constitutes “tearing it up” that would have been sufficient enough for him to be in the reckoning? 

That was the start of my last response.

Tearing it up = kicking on from last year. Then I used a benchmark of having scored 12 goals so far as an indication of what this could look like, and a number I feel would seriously put him in the conversation based on those ahead/around him.

Even then he may not get in, as Clarke has a settled, performing squad - and there’s more to it than just goals - but I don’t think TC is too far off in general, though very far away right now, given how he’s currently being played at City .

If he’s scoring 20 to 25 goals a season in the Championship, he should be in the squad without any questions - and I say all this as a Scotland supporter (from Glasgow, moved to Bristol when I was 10).

[REDOXO]

Mannng has turned one of the best strikers in the division and certainly a player that had a shot at the Euros. Into a **** no chance nothing!

I look forward to Tommy’s autobiography’s Mannng was a **** section!  

[ollywhyte]

2 hours ago, SydneyCity said:

If TC had kicked on from last year.

You mentioned 12 goals so far as a possible benchmark. That sort of form puts him in good stead against those around him:

- Che Adam’s - 12 goals so far

- Lyndon Dykes - 5 goals so far

- Lawrence Shankland - 27 goals so far

- Kevin Nisbet - 5 goals so far

- Jacob Brown - 4 goals so far

Adam’s, Dykes, Nisbet play in the champ, Brown will likely be in the champ next season.

Shankland, despite his amazing form, is only just getting his chance, which suggests where Clarke sees the SPL. Shankland was in last time as Dykes was injured but is in for these next friendlies on his own merit.

So I still think that if TC was tearing it up / improved on last season, there’d be a legitimate conversation to be had about him being in. It would still be hard for him given all the reasons we’ve mentioned in previous comments, but not impossible. I still think Manningball has made it impossible for him and removed any conversation.

TC has also missed a few this season, but you could argue that a happy, well utilised, TC would have scored them and kicked on.

Arguably Ryan Hardie ahead of him at Argyle too. Apparently close to a senior call up for this squad. 12 goals, 5 assists this season for a struggling team 

[Dr Balls]

5 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Mannng has turned one of the best strikers in the division and certainly a player that had a shot at the Euros. Into a **** no chance nothing!

I look forward to Tommy’s autobiography’s Mannng was a **** section!  

Probably why the move to West Brom suited Andi Weimann. Absolutely no chance of a recall to the Austrian squad playing here under Manning, but at promotion-chasing West Brom, at least there is some chance if he plays well.

[SydneyCity]

5 minutes ago, ollywhyte said:

Arguably Ryan Hardie ahead of him at Argyle too. Apparently close to a senior call up for this squad. 12 goals, 5 assists this season for a struggling team 

He definitely is, and is being talked about in the Scottish press a fair bit.

That kind of underlines my key point, if TC was around the 12 goal mark so far there’d be a legitimate conversation about him going to the Euros… but he isn’t and I mostly (not entirely) put that down to how he’s currently being used by Manning.

[Harry]

17 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

He definitely is, and is being talked about in the Scottish press a fair bit.

That kind of underlines my key point, if TC was around the 12 goal mark so far there’d be a legitimate conversation about him going to the Euros… but he isn’t and I mostly (not entirely) put that down to how he’s currently being used by Manning.

I don’t get this blame on Manning to be honest. 
Tommy has 7 goals. You’ve said that 12 would have him in contention. 
He’s missed 5 one v ones under Manning. 
If he buries those he has his 12 goals. 
He is responsible for his own dip in form. He’s had the chances but hasn’t stuck them away. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

39 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

Mannng has turned one of the best strikers in the division and certainly a player that had a shot at the Euros. Into a **** no chance nothing!

I look forward to Tommy’s autobiography’s Mannng was a **** section!  

Yep. 

Tommy had the chance of a life time to go to the Euros. He may never get that chance again. 

Put Tommy Conway in Coventrys team for example and he'll get 15-20 goals. 

Liam Manning has destroyed Tommy Conway. For anyone to suggest otherwise would be laughable. 

Manning came in and took Tommy aside and told him to stop being Tommy Conway, he wanted to mould him himself. This is indisputable facts. Both Tommy and LM have said this. 

Rather than playing to Tommy Conways strengths Liam Manning has done the total opposite. But thats because Liam Manning wants to be the guy that gets the plaudits. He wants to be attributed with turning Conway into a different type of player. 

Conway will leave here in the summer because of this with £s knocked off his value. 

To be fair to Tommy he has tried to buy into Mannings methods but it just does not suit the type of player he is. 

I for one don't blame the lad at all for wanting out of this shit show.

Manning has cost him a place at the Euros and I feel angry for the lad that he has been treated like this. 

 

[slartibartfast]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yep. 

Tommy had the chance of a life time to go to the Euros. He may never get that chance again. 

Put Tommy Conway in Coventrys team for example and he'll get 15-20 goals. 

Liam Manning has destroyed Tommy Conway. For anyone to suggest otherwise would be laughable. 

Manning came in and took Tommy aside and told him to stop being Tommy Conway, he wanted to mould him himself. This is indisputable facts. Both Tommy and LM have said this. 

Rather than playing to Tommy Conways strengths Liam Manning has done the total opposite. But thats because Liam Manning wants to be the guy that gets the plaudits. He wants to be attributed with turning Conway into a different type of player. 

Conway will leave here in the summer because of this with £s knocked off his value. 

To be fair to Tommy he has tried to buy into Mannings methods but it just does not suit the type of player he is. 

I for one don't blame the lad at all for wanting out of this shit show.

Manning has cost him a place at the Euros and I feel angry for the lad that he has been treated like this. 

 

Has he ever played TC and NW together, for instance ?

[RedM]

Of course the club will want him to get an international call up...he's more sellable then £££

[Rob k]

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yep. 

Tommy had the chance of a life time to go to the Euros. He may never get that chance again. 

Put Tommy Conway in Coventrys team for example and he'll get 15-20 goals. 

Liam Manning has destroyed Tommy Conway. For anyone to suggest otherwise would be laughable. 

Manning came in and took Tommy aside and told him to stop being Tommy Conway, he wanted to mould him himself. This is indisputable facts. Both Tommy and LM have said this. 

Rather than playing to Tommy Conways strengths Liam Manning has done the total opposite. But thats because Liam Manning wants to be the guy that gets the plaudits. He wants to be attributed with turning Conway into a different type of player. 

Conway will leave here in the summer because of this with £s knocked off his value. 

To be fair to Tommy he has tried to buy into Mannings methods but it just does not suit the type of player he is. 

I for one don't blame the lad at all for wanting out of this shit show.

Manning has cost him a place at the Euros and I feel angry for the lad that he has been treated like this. 

 

My god, i know Mannings not popular but this is scrapping the Barrel. If TC was a regular for the national team prior to Manning then fair enough, but he’s never had a call up ever. He’s 21, if he doesn’t get another chance to go to a Euros then that would suggest he wasn’t ever good enough, time will tell on that one. As Harry says, he’s missed a lot of chances this season and that’s on him not Manning.   As for being one of the best strikers in this division….he’s miles off currently