Recruitment

[Dastardly and Muttley]

Whilst having a discussion about Manning with George Elek on X, he pointed out that the recruitment team would be the same for Manning as any other manager, which is pretty obvious.

I’m certain that Adam Murphy and Max Bird were linked prior to Manning’s appointment and would have been brought in regardless of who’s in charge.

This just made me think. People are asking for a summer where Manning can bring in players who fit his style. These guys, and likely any other targets, were already predetermined. Do they fit Manning’s style? Are they players he’d have wanted? Or are we going to end up spending big on players with potential to grow and sell on, but don’t fit the way Manning wants to play?

[The Original OTIB]

3 minutes ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Whilst having a discussion about Manning with George Elek on X, he pointed out that the recruitment team would be the same for Manning as any other manager, which is pretty obvious.

I’m certain that Adam Murphy and Max Bird were linked prior to Manning’s appointment and would have been brought in regardless of who’s in charge.

This just made me think. People are asking for a summer where Manning can bring in players who fit his style. These guys, and likely any other targets, were already predetermined. Do they fit Manning’s style? Are they players he’d have wanted? Or are we going to end up spending big on players with potential to grow and sell on, but don’t fit the way Manning wants to play?

Head Coach, gets to choose, but only from what is put in front of him, so it is set forth.

[milo1111]

The whole set up is tinnions. He’s the one behind the wheel which is why NP left and why we appointed someone more inexperienced who tinnion and j landsdown perceived would be more malleable.

So yes in terms of transfer targets they might not be any different now

[Davefevs]

11 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Whilst having a discussion about Manning with George Elek on X, he pointed out that the recruitment team would be the same for Manning as any other manager, which is pretty obvious.

I’m certain that Adam Murphy and Max Bird were linked prior to Manning’s appointment and would have been brought in regardless of who’s in charge.

This just made me think. People are asking for a summer where Manning can bring in players who fit his style. These guys, and likely any other targets, were already predetermined. Do they fit Manning’s style? Are they players he’d have wanted? Or are we going to end up spending big on players with potential to grow and sell on, but don’t fit the way Manning wants to play?

Tinnion also said Bird was someone they had been tracking before Manning came in.

I’m probably gonna be a bit controversial here and suggest we just need good players.  In slight jest, I don’t know what Manning’s style is!  Friday’s win wasn’t achieved through Manning-ball per se, but through pressing higher, playing with physicality, and a bit of attacking intent.

 

[Redderland]

have the players started to dump Manning's desire to "control" games and just go for it? As usual he credited "the plan" post match, or rather the players managing to implement his "plan", but did they? Whatever it was so much better. Side Q: who decided to switch ends?

[GrahamC]

Unlike one of the contributors on SotC last week I actually don’t think our recruitment is the issue.

Last summer we brought in 5 players, Knight, Dickie, McCrorie, Roberts & TGH.

Ross had some bad luck with his injury & recently some on here have been on his case because results have been poor, but I’m prepared to give him time.

I’m nowhere near as big a fan of TGH as some but picking up a 22 year old central midfielder who had played 50 times for West Brom won’t get anywhere near to making a list of our worst signings. 

The other 3 (Roberts of late admittedly but worth pointing out he’s still only 21) look great signings.

The issue was we didn’t bring in enough numbers last summer, January was a bit odd but Twine is for me obviously a big part of what Manning wants to do & Mebude a “try before you buy” who simply isn’t good enough.

If we bring in 4 more of the standard of Knight, Dickie & Roberts we’ll have done well.
 

Edited March 31 by GrahamC

[Davefevs]

25 minutes ago, Redderland said:

Side Q: who decided to switch ends?

Leicester

[Silvio Dante]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Unlike one of the contributors on SotC last week I actually don’t think our recruitment is the issue.

Last summer we brought in 5 players, Knight, Dickie, McCrorie, Roberts & TGH.

Ross had some bad luck with his injury & recently some on here have been on his case because results have been poor, but I’m prepared to give him time.

I’m nowhere near as big a fan of TGH as some but picking up a 22 year old central midfielder who had played 50 times for West Brom won’t get anywhere near to making a list of our worst signings. 

The other 3 (Roberts of late admittedly but worth pointing out he’s still only 21) look great signings.

The issue was we didn’t bring in enough numbers last summer, January was a bit odd but Twine is for me obviously a big part of what Manning wants to do & Mebude a “try before you buy” who simply isn’t good enough.

If we bring in 4 more of the standard of Knight, Dickie & Roberts we’ll have done well.
 

Yeah, bang on. I think there was a post here a couple of weeks ago bemoaning the recruitment but you’d have to say that the summer business at worse was two “hits” (Knight and Dickie) and three “Jury out” for various reasons. If people think every signing will come off they’re deluded but that seems a pretty good return - at this stage - to me.

January business I’ve said several times I liked with the exception of Twine in view of the nature of the deal. Even Mebude made sense in view of the option.

Moving forward, I’m with Fevs on this one - it sounds simplistic, but just recruiting good players is the key. I’d be awfully reticent to spend loads of cash on players for a specific system Liam wants to play because, to be frank, I don’t think he’s earnt that right with what he’s shown to date and getting “specialists” in has every chance of leaving us with a misshapen squad. A la Nige - nothing wrong in letting him have a James/King but the majority of signings have to fit the “profile”. Ultimately we’re still going to be talking about footballers who have a good grounding in academy systems and if he can’t get players to play his way then that’s where the fault will be.

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Redderland said:

have the players started to dump Manning's desire to "control" games and just go for it? As usual he credited "the plan" post match, or rather the players managing to implement his "plan", but did they? Whatever it was so much better. Side Q: who decided to switch ends?

I await Plymouth tomorrow, but I think the players have had a little word, especially off of the back of Manning being under pressure.

12 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Unlike one of the contributors on SotC last week I actually don’t think our recruitment is the issue.

Last summer we brought in 5 players, Knight, Dickie, McCrorie, Roberts & TGH.

Ross had some bad luck with his injury & recently some on here have been on his case because results have been poor, but I’m prepared to give him time.

I’m nowhere near as big a fan of TGH as some but picking up a 22 year old central midfielder who had played 50 times for West Brom won’t get anywhere near to making a list of our worst signings. 

The other 3 (Roberts of late admittedly but worth pointing out he’s still only 21) look great signings.

The issue was we didn’t bring in enough numbers last summer, January was a bit odd but Twine is for me obviously a big part of what Manning wants to do & Mebude a “try before you buy” who simply isn’t good enough.

If we bring in 4 more of the standard of Knight, Dickie & Roberts we’ll have done well.
 

Agree.  

[GrahamC]

12 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Yeah, bang on. I think there was a post here a couple of weeks ago bemoaning the recruitment but you’d have to say that the summer business at worse was two “hits” (Knight and Dickie) and three “Jury out” for various reasons. If people think every signing will come off they’re deluded but that seems a pretty good return - at this stage - to me.

January business I’ve said several times I liked with the exception of Twine in view of the nature of the deal. Even Mebude made sense in view of the option.

Moving forward, I’m with Fevs on this one - it sounds simplistic, but just recruiting good players is the key. I’d be awfully reticent to spend loads of cash on players for a specific system Liam wants to play because, to be frank, I don’t think he’s earnt that right with what he’s shown to date and getting “specialists” in has every chance of leaving us with a misshapen squad. A la Nige - nothing wrong in letting him have a James/King but the majority of signings have to fit the “profile”. Ultimately we’re still going to be talking about footballers who have a good grounding in academy systems and if he can’t get players to play his way then that’s where the fault will be.

Yep.

Couple of other observations;

Sykes on a free the year before was sensational business.

Our January signings tend not to be so good, it’s a tougher market & we need to shop in at as little as possible.

This summer we need a second keeper, a striker & a number 10. If Conway leaves we need another striker too.

Despite the comment about being short on numbers we need to use the likes of Stokes, Seb P-H & Murphy as bench players (if the latter ever appears) & concentrate on quality in terms of the outfield players over quantity.

Edited March 31 by GrahamC

[The Original OTIB]

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I await Plymouth tomorrow, but I think the players have had a little word, especially off of the back of Manning being under pressure.

Agree.  

Will Plymouth play counter attack? One thing at which they are ok.  I think they wiil, so another slog, potentially.

[Silvio Dante]

3 minutes ago, The Original OTIB said:

Will Plymouth play counter attack? One thing at which they are ok.  I think they wiil, so another slog, potentially.

I was reading PASOTI the other day and this comment was very symptomatic of where they are under Foster. I think you’re right from all what I’ve read - they will sit and counter.

 

[Davefevs]

4 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yep.

Couple of other observations;

Sykes on a free the year before was sensational business.

Our January signings tend not to be so good, it’s a tougher market & we need to shop in at as little as possible.

This summer we need a second keeper, a striker & a number 10. If Conway leaves we need another striker too.

Despite the comment about being short on numbers we need to use the likes of Stokes, Seb P-H & Murphy as bench players (if he ever appears) & concentrate on quality in terms of the outfield players over quantity.

For me, the big question is, can’t you recruit a player who is at least as good as (if not better) than MJ and JW for the same money as it costs to re-contract them?

Thats not a straight £ to £ comparison, but of course MJ and JW are in effect free transfers, whilst a new signing might be fee plus wages, but hold a transfer value too.

Heard a link of Juninho Bacuna who is OOC at Brum. 27 in August, on a free, can play multiple midfield roles, would be a good, cost-effective (comparatively) option.

[Silvio Dante]

7 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Yep.

Couple of other observations;

Sykes on a free the year before was sensational business.

Our January signings tend not to be so good, it’s a tougher market & we need to shop in at as little as possible.

This summer we need a second keeper, a striker & a number 10. If Conway leaves we need another striker too.

Despite the comment about being short on numbers we need to use the likes of Stokes, Seb P-H & Murphy as bench players (if the latter ever appears) & concentrate on quality in terms of the outfield players over quantity.

If you look at that list, it’s not looking like we need to do major business. The backup keeper is just that - a backup and cost should reflect. Midfield recruitment will depend on what happens with James, Williams and King but if the former wants to stay it’d be suicidal not to keep him. 
 

The “ten” and the forward are clearly the bigger ticket items here. 
 

What it does all say to me is that there is a lot of commentary about how Liam “needs a window” and “his players”. Similar to my point a moment ago, this isn’t major surgery in terms of “need” - so I’m unsure of the “his players” route unless we do go down the foolhardy path of recruiting players for a specific system.

[Robbored]

43 minutes ago, Redderland said:

. Side Q: who decided to switch ends?

Which way the teams play is decided at the ko by a coin toss. City obviously lost and the Foxes, like all visiting teams would have been fully aware which way City like to play, namely towards the SS in the second half and that’s why they changed it - it’s more psychological than anything else.

[The Original OTIB]

6 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I was reading PASOTI the other day and this comment was very symptomatic of where they are under Foster. I think you’re right from all what I’ve read - they will sit and counter.

 

Yes, they need goals, and we are not prolific of late. Bore draw odds?

[Mr Popodopolous]

51 minutes ago, Redderland said:

Side Q: who decided to switch ends?

Bit of a segue but the sooner we have Home fabd behind both goals the better, even if it is medium term limiting the away allocation and splitting the Atyeo to get some of ours in there.

Playing towards own fans is absolutely an advantage. It isn't the be all and end all but it very much helps.

[GrahamC]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

For me, the big question is, can’t you recruit a player who is at least as good as (if not better) than MJ and JW for the same money as it costs to re-contract them?

Thats not a straight £ to £ comparison, but of course MJ and JW are in effect free transfers, whilst a new signing might be fee plus wages, but hold a transfer value too.

Heard a link of Juninho Bacuna who is OOC at Brum. 27 in August, on a free, can play multiple midfield roles, would be a good, cost-effective (comparatively) option.

Bacuna is definitely one we should consider.

Rudoni if (as looks likely) Huddersfield go down, too.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Bacuna is definitely one we should consider.

Rudoni if (as looks likely) Huddersfield go down, too.

You know I like Rudoni!

@Harry earmarked him as Weimann’s replacement. I saw him a bit differently, but ultimately he has a range of attributes that would fit our midfield nicely.

[tin]

12 hours ago, Dastardly and Muttley said:

Whilst having a discussion about Manning with George Elek on X, he pointed out that the recruitment team would be the same for Manning as any other manager, which is pretty obvious.

I’m certain that Adam Murphy and Max Bird were linked prior to Manning’s appointment and would have been brought in regardless of who’s in charge.

This just made me think. People are asking for a summer where Manning can bring in players who fit his style. These guys, and likely any other targets, were already predetermined. Do they fit Manning’s style? Are they players he’d have wanted? Or are we going to end up spending big on players with potential to grow and sell on, but don’t fit the way Manning wants to play?

I’d be surprised if Manning wasn’t responsible for the signings of Twine and Mebude, having worked with both of them before. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the likes of Conor Coventry or Marcus McGuane arrive in the summer due to Manning either. 

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, tin said:

I’d be surprised if Manning wasn’t responsible for the signings of Twine and Mebude, having worked with both of them before. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the likes of Conor Coventry or Marcus McGuane arrive in the summer due to Manning either. 

I’d like to think that in half a season here he’s realised that the Championship is a whole different level to lg1 and that he doesn’t narrow his pool to players he’s coached previously.  This is no time for Redknapp / Krancjaer!

[1960maaan]

2 hours ago, Redderland said:

have the players started to dump Manning's desire to "control" games and just go for it? As usual he credited "the plan" post match, or rather the players managing to implement his "plan", but did they? Whatever it was so much better. 

I think he's done , but , although he could be a "dead man walking" as we are safe -ish then he will have a job for a while.
That gives him a chance to reassess , and maybe , just maybe , he has realised HE has to adapt rather than an entire squad of players. 
Managers should be able to tweak their ideas into a working system , otherwise they will have a very short career. So perhaps he has just altered his ideas a touch . 
I said elsewhere , the win means little in terms of "have we cracked it" . We have done well against sides that give us a little room to play or press us (Leeds apart ) . Plymouth being a "local"  derby , will be a little different , Huddersfield and Rotherham will be games to see if we go about things differently. 

Edited March 31 by 1960maaan

[Numero Uno]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I think he's done , but , although he could be a "dead man walking" as we are safe -ish then he will have a job for a while.
That gives him a chance to reassess , and maybe , just maybe , he has realised HE has to adapt rather than an entire squad of players. 
Managers should be able to tweak their ideas into a working system , otherwise they will have a very short career. So perhaps he has just altered his ideas a touch . 
I said elsewhere , they win means little in terms of "have we cracked it" . We have done well against sides that give us a little room to play or press us (Leeds apart ) . Plymouth being a "local"  derby , will be a little different , Huddersfield and Rotherham will be games to see if we go about things differently. 

If Liam has designs on remaining in post then putting in performances in these last seven games will not only ensure that BUT it will get a few more fans onside. These are the type of games where he needs to give us a lot more. Beating Leicester and Southampton means nothing if we end up with 21 points in total from the second half of the season. For me, 10 points minimum in these last seven is a fair target.

[tin]

53 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’d like to think that in half a season here he’s realised that the Championship is a whole different level to lg1 and that he doesn’t narrow his pool to players he’s coached previously.  This is no time for Redknapp / Krancjaer!

You and I both, Dave. But it looks like James and Williams will be gone, so it’ll be interesting to see what they have up their sleeve. I don’t see anything left-friend from Europe or further afield, sadly. 

[1960maaan]

2 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

If Liam has designs on remaining in post then putting in performances in these last seven games will not only ensure that BUT it will get a few more fans onside. These are the type of games where he needs to give us a lot more. Beating Leicester and Southampton means nothing if we end up with 21 points in total from the second half of the season. For me, 10 points minimum in these last seven is a fair target.

I want to see a coherent plan for beating that low block that has caused us problems. I would like to see us make more chances for the striker. I want players to look more comfortable and confident in what they are trying to do, it sometimes looks like they are scared to go off plan and second guess themselves. I think we will get points, but I want to see us win and deserve points and to look a team . If we do that he will be here next year, if we lose more boring games against poor sides , maybe not. 

[Davefevs]

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

I want to see a coherent plan for beating that low block that has caused us problems. I would like to see us make more chances for the striker. I want players to look more comfortable and confident in what they are trying to do, it sometimes looks like they are scared to go off plan and second guess themselves. I think we will get points, but I want to see us win and deserve points and to look a team . If we do that he will be here next year, if we lose more boring games against poor sides , maybe not. 

I think it’s more about intent than players per se.

Edited March 31 by Davefevs

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think it’s more about intent than players per se.

It's just that I've seen it lots over the last few months, players making the runs and the man on the ball seeing it but turning back . Even acknowledging the run after they've played a short pass. 
If we were really front foot, they are exactly the runs/passes we should be doing. All seems a little safe a lot of the time. 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

It's just that I've seen it lots over the last few months, players making the runs and the man on the ball seeing it but turning back . Even acknowledging the run after they've played a short pass. 
If we were really front foot, they are exactly the runs/passes we should be doing. All seems a little safe a lot of the time. 

Couldn’t agree more.

[mozo]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Friday’s win wasn’t achieved through Manning-ball per se, but through pressing higher, playing with physicality, and a bit of attacking intent.

 

Manning said pre-Leicester that a higher press and attacking intent IS his preference. So maybe it was Manning-ball?

Did he not say something along the lines that he introduced the more passive block as a way to preserve the players legs during the busy winter schedule... or am I misremembering?

[Superjack]

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Did he not say something along the lines that he introduced the more passive block as a way to preserve the players legs during the busy winter schedule... or am I misremembering?

Jesus Christ. 

Let's just forget trying to climb the table during the 'busy winter schedule' to preserve the players legs so they will be fresh for the arse-end of the season when we will consequently have **** all to play for. 

What a friggin' genius.

 

 

 

 

Oh for six months ago...