Liam Manning - pre-match Blackburn

[FNQ]

Interesting to hear from LM that the recent run of three clean sheets can be attributed to the opportunity for some focussed coaching on the grass over the international break, well done Liam you’re a genius… there was I thinking that if it were not for Max then we could have conceded six or seven over those three games. 

[mozo]

7 hours ago, FNQ said:

Interesting to hear from LM that the recent run of three clean sheets can be attributed to the opportunity for some focussed coaching on the grass over the international break, well done Liam you’re a genius… there was I thinking that if it were not for Max then we could have conceded six or seven over those three games. 

Well he did actually say that if it wasn't for Max we wouldn't have drawn in the weekend  

You're free to criticise him, but he really doesn't come across as arrogant and is frequently giving the players credit. 

[FNQ]

1 minute ago, mozo said:

Well he did actually say that if it wasn't for Max we wouldn't have drawn in the weekend  

You're free to criticise him, but he really doesn't come across as arrogant and is frequently giving the players credit. 

Well worth both entitled to an opinion.. personally I’m fed up with him telling us how he is teaching our players how to play the game, and how they are or are not grasping his behavioural requirements.. it’s nonsense. Let’s see if we can keep another three clean sheets and turn in a couple of decent performances over the next few games. He’s bluffing..

[TDarwall]

3 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well he did actually say that if it wasn't for Max we wouldn't have drawn in the weekend  

You're free to criticise him, but he really doesn't come across as arrogant and is frequently giving the players credit. 

The fact is for some people Manning has a mountain to climb & whatever he says will be picked to death.

A few weeks back folk were bemoaning a more passionate manager like Cotts. However if you looked at this forum after Cotts early games in charge, when things weren't great, there was little praise for his post match interviews & mocking him for sounding deranged!

I very rarely listen to pre/post match pressers but I do find it odd if someone really dislikes someone's communication style why they invest so much time listening to it just to say how rubbish it is.

I come back to the same thing, if Manning gets us promoted next season with about 40 dull as dishwater 1-0 wins, he'll be able to conduct his press activity through the mediums of modern dance & mime & will largely be lauded as a genius.  2 rules of football, 1) results are everything, 2) never forget rule #1.

[FNQ]

1 minute ago, TDarwall said:

The fact is for some people Manning has a mountain to climb & whatever he says will be picked to death.

A few weeks back folk were bemoaning a more passionate manager like Cotts. However if you looked at this forum after Cotts early games in charge, when things weren't great, there was little praise for his post match interviews & mocking him for sounding deranged!

I very rarely listen to pre/post match pressers but I do find it odd if someone really dislikes someone's communication style why they invest so much time listening to it just to say how rubbish it is.

I come back to the same thing, if Manning gets us promoted next season with about 40 dull as dishwater 1-0 wins, he'll be able to conduct his press activity through the mediums of modern dance & mime & will largely be lauded as a genius.  2 rules of football, 1) results are everything, 2) never forget rule #1.

I give you Millwall (h), QPR (h), Cardiff (h).. and you’re right, it’s hard to forget.

[mozo]

3 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Well worth both entitled to an opinion.. personally I’m fed up with him telling us how he is teaching our players how to play the game, and how they are or are not grasping his behavioural requirements.. it’s nonsense. Let’s see if we can keep another three clean sheets and turn in a couple of decent performances over the next few games. He’s bluffing..

I could see there being goals either side tonight

[Silvio Dante]

8 hours ago, bpexile said:

That was by far the best interview I've yet seen from LM, tbf he's been under immense pressure (wonder why) so to see him in that relaxed way was a lot easier to take. I'll see what the next few results bring & then try & relax before it all starts again.

COYR's

Indeed - the change in demeanour was noticeable and I wonder if it was a coincidence that a more relaxed LM used “stock phrases” less - I don’t think we heard “behaviours” or “process” once. It’s only human that when under pressure you revert to stock language and he looked as if some weight had been lifted.

The million dollar question now is this - is he relaxed, and as a consequence takes the handbrake off, or does he feels secure, and as a consequence reverts to what has been his preferred way of playing up until Leicester, with a bit less pace and more patience. Hopefully the former.

37 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well he did actually say that if it wasn't for Max we wouldn't have drawn in the weekend  

You're free to criticise him, but he really doesn't come across as arrogant and is frequently giving the players credit. 

Both agree and disagree. What was noticeable about that presser was the extent he praised the players with, as you say, Max, Tanner and Roberts all coming in for sustained credit. What has happened on prior pressers as a pattern was that the coaching had been praised and the execution criticised (eg “We can get you to the 18 yard box but you have to do the rest” “Pat Mountains been working on that” etc etc).

Its probably linked to the point above - he hasn’t been as relaxed in the pressers so the tendency had been to justify himself/his coaches in the first part (and again, that’s human behaviour).

I thought - communication wise- last week with Hogg was a start and that was Liams best presser yet. Explaining properly to people about stuff like the dislocation as opposed to just saying “behaviours” goes a long way.

[bpexile]

2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

Indeed - the change in demeanour was noticeable and I wonder if it was a coincidence that a more relaxed LM used “stock phrases” less - I don’t think we heard “behaviours” or “process” once.

 

Exactly SD & I don't recall the "Bravery" call either 

[W-S-M Seagull]

55 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well he did actually say that if it wasn't for Max we wouldn't have drawn in the weekend  

You're free to criticise him, but he really doesn't come across as arrogant and is frequently giving the players credit. 

Im sorry but the way I see it is he's trying to say "the reason we've had clean sheets is because we've had time on the grass which I didn't have earlier on in the season" 

But the reality is Leicester and Sunderland could and should have scored a bucket load past us. 

So to try and frame the time on the as a reason for the clean sheets is just taking us all for fools to paint himself in a positive light. This is the Liam Manning show. 

 

 

[Littlesh*t]

I'm really concerned if the clean sheets are down to coaching, our defending has been shocking at times and we literally gifted opportunities to the opposition. On another day vardy would have had a hatrick. 

[mozo]

31 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Im sorry but the way I see it is he's trying to say "the reason we've had clean sheets is because we've had time on the grass which I didn't have earlier on in the season" 

But the reality is Leicester and Sunderland could and should have scored a bucket load past us. 

So to try and frame the time on the as a reason for the clean sheets is just taking us all for fools to paint himself in a positive light. This is the Liam Manning show. 

 

 

Well the journalist asked was silly mistakes that cost us previously and ask what City had done better. The answer was 'we had time to work on it'.

He praises how the players have executed it, says they've done a great job 

If that's Manning peacocking in your eyes fair enough. 

 

Edited April 10 by mozo

[Davefevs]

8 hours ago, FNQ said:

Interesting to hear from LM that the recent run of three clean sheets can be attributed to the opportunity for some focussed coaching on the grass over the international break, well done Liam you’re a genius… there was I thinking that if it were not for Max then we could have conceded six or seven over those three games. 

1 hour ago, mozo said:

Well he did actually say that if it wasn't for Max we wouldn't have drawn in the weekend  

You're free to criticise him, but he really doesn't come across as arrogant and is frequently giving the players credit. 

FWIW, it’s interesting to hear his response to the clean sheets question.  He’s an analytical coach, but decided to not give an analytical answer.  I have no problems with that either, was just interesting that when we were struggling he did refer to (paraphrased) “the numbers being better than the results”.  A manager’s prerogative to spin things a little.

As you know I like my 6-game rolling averages, and the last block of 6 (Ipswich to Sunderland) had 4 clean sheets but our worst amount of xG conceded since he LM took over (8.00 xGC).  If you want to take out the Ipswich game, then 5 games had 5.99 xGC which is above his average.

The perverse world of football!

But as FNQ says to escape Leicester and Sunderland with shut-outs was less down to on-the-grass time, more Max’s excellence.  Of course a game like Cardiff (h) 0-1, should’ve been a 0-0 really, so a non-analytical “swings and roundabouts” maybe?

What is the slight concern for me is the growing trend of number of both shots conceded and amount of xG conceded.  Usually the “results” catch-up the trend.

Or maybe we have a “Lucky General” in charge, one who will outperform the numbers.  And I don’t mean he’s lucky, just using the term loosely.

When Napoleon Bonaparte was criticised for winning battles simply because of luck, he famously retorted: “I'd rather have lucky generals than good ones.” More than a hundred years later, Eisenhower reaffirmed this point by saying: “I'd rather have a lucky general than a smart general. They win battles.”

[Steve Watts]

13 minutes ago, mozo said:

Well the journalist asked was silly mistakes that cost us previously and ask what City had done better. The answer was 'we had time to work on it'.

He praises how the players have executed it, says they've done a great job 

If that's Manning peacocking in your eyes fair enough. 

 

I think that's the thing though. It's been heavily weighted to implying that "coaches win matches, players lose them" since the turn of the year at least. Three games unbeaten (and Max saving us from a tanking in two of them) may have given him a chance to relax a little, but sadly I've no faith in him to offer anything different moving forward as soon as we start to concede again. 

And yes, I accept writing him off with seemingly no chance of redemption may be harsh, but I genuinely believe his tenure has been that bad. The quicker it ends the better.

[Son of Fred]

50 minutes ago, Littlesh*t said:

I'm really concerned if the clean sheets are down to coaching, our defending has been shocking at times and we literally gifted opportunities to the opposition. On another day vardy would have had a hatrick. 

Correct.....and should we continue with such "behaviours" a thumping won't be too far away.

[W-S-M Seagull]

27 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW, it’s interesting to hear his response to the clean sheets question.  He’s an analytical coach, but decided to not give an analytical answer.  I have no problems with that either, was just interesting that when we were struggling he did refer to (paraphrased) “the numbers being better than the results”.  A manager’s prerogative to spin things a little.

As you know I like my 6-game rolling averages, and the last block of 6 (Ipswich to Sunderland) had 4 clean sheets but our worst amount of xG conceded since he LM took over (8.00 xGC).  If you want to take out the Ipswich game, then 5 games had 5.99 xGC which is above his average.

The perverse world of football!

But as FNQ says to escape Leicester and Sunderland with shut-outs was less down to on-the-grass time, more Max’s excellence.  Of course a game like Cardiff (h) 0-1, should’ve been a 0-0 really, so a non-analytical “swings and roundabouts” maybe?

What is the slight concern for me is the growing trend of number of both shots conceded and amount of xG conceded.  Usually the “results” catch-up the trend.

Or maybe we have a “Lucky General” in charge, one who will outperform the numbers.  And I don’t mean he’s lucky, just using the term loosely.

When Napoleon Bonaparte was criticised for winning battles simply because of luck, he famously retorted: “I'd rather have lucky generals than good ones.” More than a hundred years later, Eisenhower reaffirmed this point by saying: “I'd rather have a lucky general than a smart general. They win battles.”

My concern is that our eyes and the numbers show us that we are doing worse despite Manning having that 'on the grass time' that he kept speaking about. 

Manning must know that the fanbase has not warmed to him, so it does him no favours to try and pull the wool over our eyes. 

[Street red]

2 hours ago, FNQ said:

Well worth both entitled to an opinion.. personally I’m fed up with him telling us how he is teaching our players how to play the game, and how they are or are not grasping his behavioural requirements.. it’s nonsense. Let’s see if we can keep another three clean sheets and turn in a couple of decent performances over the next few games. He’s bluffing..

Yep he's mr Billy bull******* I don't listen to him and your right I personally think he's bluffing his way through the job.

[Northern Red]

I'm not sure we've ever had a manager who was so widely considered to be dull and robotic and yet had his every word analysed to death as much.

Edited April 10 by Northern Red

[beaverface]

36 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW, it’s interesting to hear his response to the clean sheets question.  He’s an analytical coach, but decided to not give an analytical answer.  I have no problems with that either, was just interesting that when we were struggling he did refer to (paraphrased) “the numbers being better than the results”.  A manager’s prerogative to spin things a little.

As you know I like my 6-game rolling averages, and the last block of 6 (Ipswich to Sunderland) had 4 clean sheets but our worst amount of xG conceded since he LM took over (8.00 xGC).  If you want to take out the Ipswich game, then 5 games had 5.99 xGC which is above his average.

The perverse world of football!

But as FNQ says to escape Leicester and Sunderland with shut-outs was less down to on-the-grass time, more Max’s excellence.  Of course a game like Cardiff (h) 0-1, should’ve been a 0-0 really, so a non-analytical “swings and roundabouts” maybe?

What is the slight concern for me is the growing trend of number of both shots conceded and amount of xG conceded.  Usually the “results” catch-up the trend.

Or maybe we have a “Lucky General” in charge, one who will outperform the numbers.  And I don’t mean he’s lucky, just using the term loosely.

When Napoleon Bonaparte was criticised for winning battles simply because of luck, he famously retorted: “I'd rather have lucky generals than good ones.” More than a hundred years later, Eisenhower reaffirmed this point by saying: “I'd rather have a lucky general than a smart general. They win battles.”

Can't remember who said it, but there's also that quote....."The more I practice, the luckier I get !!"

[AppyDAZE]

There are no could have should haves in football.

The results recently have been good.

Time to cut the bloke some slack.

Says me, anyway.

[kernored]

It was Gary Player the South African Golf who said "The more I practice the Luckier I get" in answer to a sill reporter questio n

 

[Bazooka Joe]

15 hours ago, mozo said:

Definitely sounds like a powerful foreign striker is the target.

Knowing our luck, we’ll either get Ivan Toskor or Hugh Missalot.

[W-S-M Seagull]

13 minutes ago, beaverface said:

Can't remember who said it, but there's also that quote....."The more I practice, the luckier I get !!"

Sounds like something LJ would have said. 

[mozo]

42 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW, it’s interesting to hear his response to the clean sheets question.  He’s an analytical coach, but decided to not give an analytical answer.  I have no problems with that either, was just interesting that when we were struggling he did refer to (paraphrased) “the numbers being better than the results”.  A manager’s prerogative to spin things a little.

As you know I like my 6-game rolling averages, and the last block of 6 (Ipswich to Sunderland) had 4 clean sheets but our worst amount of xG conceded since he LM took over (8.00 xGC).  If you want to take out the Ipswich game, then 5 games had 5.99 xGC which is above his average.

The perverse world of football!

But as FNQ says to escape Leicester and Sunderland with shut-outs was less down to on-the-grass time, more Max’s excellence.  Of course a game like Cardiff (h) 0-1, should’ve been a 0-0 really, so a non-analytical “swings and roundabouts” maybe?

What is the slight concern for me is the growing trend of number of both shots conceded and amount of xG conceded.  Usually the “results” catch-up the trend.

Or maybe we have a “Lucky General” in charge, one who will outperform the numbers.  And I don’t mean he’s lucky, just using the term loosely.

When Napoleon Bonaparte was criticised for winning battles simply because of luck, he famously retorted: “I'd rather have lucky generals than good ones.” More than a hundred years later, Eisenhower reaffirmed this point by saying: “I'd rather have a lucky general than a smart general. They win battles.”

That's an interesting perspective and thanks for sharing the data.

I definitely don't buy that Manning is a self-promoter, or at least no more than your average manager, who of course have to sit there and be publicly quizzed about team performances.

Regards the stats, I'm a little bit wary of xG, and I'm also quite comfortable with Max having good games. Part of being a good team is having a good keeper, and that's what we want to be. On the flipside, Max has certainly made mistakes this season that either did cost us goals or led to xG for the opponent, so it kind of balances out. 

The thing is, I'm not of the belief that Manning has 'turned a corner'. My belief always has been that performances have been encouraging enough that eventually results would follow, and they did. The fact that we went on a negative streak, followed by a positive streak for me was just an example of the undulating nature of mid table Championship football. At times you will out-perform the stats, at times you will under-perform against them. So I'm not hailing the current form as anything other than good results. We have a painfully inconsistent team and coaching consistency must be one of the great challenges for all gaffers. 

We could absolutely anything tonight by the way! 

 

[MelksRed]

10 hours ago, bpexile said:

That was by far the best interview I've yet seen from LM, tbf he's been under immense pressure (wonder why) so to see him in that relaxed way was a lot easier to take. I'll see what the next few results bring & then try & relax before it all starts again.

COYR's

Agree - seemed more personable this time around. I don't think that it's realistic to expect him to go after half a season. I'll judge him properly post a summer transfer window. Must be doing better prior to Christmas.....he knows this. 

[bpexile]

3 minutes ago, MelksRed said:

Agree - seemed more personable this time around. I don't think that it's realistic to expect him to go after half a season. I'll judge him properly post a summer transfer window. Must be doing better prior to Christmas.....he knows this. 

Yes, I think that's the only way we can judge fairly 

[Son of Fred]

24 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

I think that's the thing though. It's been heavily weighted to implying that "coaches win matches, players lose them" since the turn of the year at least. Three games unbeaten (and Max saving us from a tanking in two of them) may have given him a chance to relax a little, but sadly I've no faith in him to offer anything different moving forward as soon as we start to concede again. 

And yes, I accept writing him off with seemingly no chance of redemption may be harsh, but I genuinely believe his tenure has been that bad. The quicker it ends the better.

I'm seeing good ( not enough) & bad..plus a fair bit of indifferent - I'm also seeing that Liam is certainly no tactical master.

The earliest now that you could hope to wave him off will be November..

[Red Army 75]

Manning is going nowhere, I will judge him next season first 10-15 games, with new players and pre season. Do I think he’s capable, probably not

Have I been happy with the football, not at times. 
 

My problem is with JL and Tinnion. And when you see lack of progress since Manning has arrived, he gets the frustration directed at him. But really it should be directed at JL and BT. 
 

I want Bristol City to Succeed, I want Liam Manning to Succeed. Let’s see what the summer brings. Fed up with being negative 

 

[HunstantonRed]

He is bloody boring. 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, FNQ said:

I give you Millwall (h), QPR (h), Cardiff (h).. and you’re right, it’s hard to forget.

Do you give him any credit for some of the more decent performances though? as you appear to be a bit one-sided.

[Top Robin]

There are so many on here who are still so in love and obsessed with Pearson that they will never accept any other manager, and they will search to find any reason to criticise that new manager rather than give him a chance. Pathetic really.