What defines a 'good ground'?

[SecretSam]

News of Portsmouth's promotion, and comments about 'a proper ground' lead me to wonder: exactly what is a 'good ground' these days? There's still apparently a lot of love for old grounds, despite drawbacks (legroom, facilities, accessibility) because they are deemed to offer a better 'atmosphere'. Or maybe it's the classic British disease of nostalgia?

For me, I like a ground where I can see, there's reasonable comfort (I'm paying solid money, so expect my 173cm frame to be accommodated), the loos are OK and the stands are tight to the pitch. I'm genuinely not bothered about standing at my age (55) unless the tickets are very cheap.

What are your thoughts?

[ExiledAjax]

50 minutes ago, SecretSam said:

News of Portsmouth's promotion, and comments about 'a proper ground' lead me to wonder: exactly what is a 'good ground' these days? There's still apparently a lot of love for old grounds, despite drawbacks (legroom, facilities, accessibility) because they are deemed to offer a better 'atmosphere'. Or maybe it's the classic British disease of nostalgia?

For me, I like a ground where I can see, there's reasonable comfort (I'm paying solid money, so expect my 173cm frame to be accommodated), the loos are OK and the stands are tight to the pitch. I'm genuinely not bothered about standing at my age (55) unless the tickets are very cheap.

What are your thoughts?

I'll be honest and say that in addition to the factors you point out - sight lines, comfort, tight to the pitch -  a huge part of it for me is the area surrounding the ground.

Stadiums that are set in the heart of a city, surrounded by characterful pubs and bars, a variety of food options, within an interesting walk from a railway station, those are special. Places like the old Griffin Park, Kenilworth Road, St James Park (both Exeter and Newcastle), the City Ground, even somewhere like Stamford Bridge or the Emirates. The atmosphere at these grounds begins outside the gates and it's often wonderful.

[Iron Acton Red]

Old grounds are great but look at the facilities Ashton gate have now the plenty of toilets and food bars etc. I remember having to wait all of half time to queue for a piss in the dolman :laugh:. Regarding nostalgia though, I like it. I wouldn’t call it a disease 

[Phileas Fogg]

I think generally people class a good ground as somewhere with history, status and tradition (Fratton Park, Villa Park, Anfield, Ibrox etc) or an exceptional modern ground that has world class facilities (Spurs new ground for example).

What you don't want is to go from a traditional ground with character and tradition into a disappointing new ground/rebuild - (Man City, Coventry, Southampton, West Ham) that loses all character and tradition but isn't necessarily a massive upgrade.

I think we've done relatively well with the AG rebuild in balancing both, it's not perfect but given the limitations I think it's pretty good.

Edited April 17 by Phileas Fogg

[ExiledAjax]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think we've done relatively well with the AG rebuild in balancing both, it's not perfect but given the limitations I think it's pretty good.

I agree that AG strikes a very good balance between quality of stadium, location, size, facilities. It's not perfect, it's not what it once was, and it's not the absolute best that it could be. But you'll never build something that please everyone.

My understanding is that away fans often compliment it and TV companies like it (boo hiss, but this is important). Basically it seems popular with outsiders of all persuasions.

[Robbored]

7 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think generally people class a good ground as somewhere with history, status and tradition (Fratton Park, Villa Park, Anfield, Ibrox etc) or an exceptional modern ground that has world class facilities (Spurs new ground for example).

What you don't want is to go from a traditional ground with character and tradition into a disappointing new ground/rebuild - (Man City, Coventry, Southampton, West Ham) that loses all character and tradition but isn't necessarily a massive upgrade.

I think we've done relatively well with the AG rebuild in balancing both, it's not perfect but given the limitations I think it's pretty good.

My views exactly PF. The one stadium that impressed me in recent years was the Ricoh. Its ‘D’ design was particularly unique - plus of course that City usually did pretty well there. 

These days AG is very different since the redevelopment and all it needs now is to to enclose the Atyeo with the Dolman and Lansdown but whether that’s viable or not I have no idea. It would certainly add to the capacity tho.

 

 

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

For me it's all the things that Secret Sam and ExiledAjax have said plus that its one I want to go to and look forward to going to not just that I go to through loyalty to the team. 

[Open End Numb Legs]

Everyone will have their priorities. The OP has it similar to mine. A good view is essential, followed by legroom, then toilets/food/drink etc.

I have seen football and rugby at the Principality in Cardiff, not a club ground obviously but that is probably the best I have seen including transport and being close to local life.

[Phileas Fogg]

53 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I agree that AG strikes a very good balance between quality of stadium, location, size, facilities. It's not perfect, it's not what it once was, and it's not the absolute best that it could be. But you'll never build something that please everyone.

My understanding is that away fans often compliment it and TV companies like it (boo hiss, but this is important). Basically it seems popular with outsiders of all persuasions.

Yeah - I don't think it's been planned brilliantly in terms of generating atmosphere - and the concourse areas feel unfinished - but it's pretty good. 

I remember the bizarre "bus stop" proposals for the new ground when that was on the table - at least we didn't end up with that.

 

[Chairman Mao]

Someone has mentioned Stamford Bridge. I think this is an underrated ground for a number of reasons;

- Its right in the heart of the city, surrounded by houses and shops, it feels like its part of the fabric of the local area.

- The stadium is compact, you are right on the pitch, which also means that it can generate a surprisingly good atmosphere. 

- Its distinctive, its not a new build, its been redeveloped over the years, its slightly haphazard. 

I good mate is a Chelsea fan and I live in London so i've been to a couple of games there. I've got friends/family who are Fulham (nice but no atmosphere apart from the away end), Arsenal (spacious but dead), West Ham (awful) and Spurs (the best example of a modern stadium but still feels like a Middle Eastern Airport Terminal) fans but for me Stamford Bridge is the pick of the bunch. the Olympic Stadium is by far the worst, probably my least favourite ground in the country. 

Edit: As for Ashton Gate? I think the biggest issue is you do feel a far from the pitch in the Lansdown Stand. The lack of full enclosure wrapping around the Atyeo Stand means the atmosphere suffers as a result.  The South Stand is a bit of a halfway house. But the redevelopment has been done to quite a high quality and they've clearly made the effort. Plus, its not an identical new build to half the other grounds in the country (basically the Reebok Stadium template) and that is a big plus. Could be better but could be much much worse. 

Edited April 17 by Chairman Mao

[Phileas Fogg]

My favourite grounds aesthetically are Ibrox, Anfield and Villa Park. I also really liked Maine Road, very unique looking ground. I also like The Valley. 

My least favourite type of stadium is that lower league bowl style - somewhere like Doncaster

 

[trickydickiecardigan]

Always liked the Valley . No one has mentioned the wonderful stadium in North Bristol, soon I believe will be extended to 20000  how marvelous!

[ExiledAjax]

51 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I also like The Valley

Ah yeh another excellent stadium with an unusual element where you enter the away end half way up the stand.

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

My views exactly PF. The one stadium that impressed me in recent years was the Ricoh. Its ‘D’ design was particularly unique - plus of course that City usually did pretty well there.

Fair enough if the Ricoh impressed you. For me it's an out of town bowl stuck between a bunch of A roads. I don't think there's a single pub within a 10 minute walk from it.

Then inside theres that massive white wall down one side that kills any chance of an atmosphere coming from all sides. It's a dead stadium in my opinion and can't hold a candle to some of the others being discussed in this thread.

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

I prefer grounds that are not full of chuffing seats (Chernobyl not included).

[Mike Hunt-Hertz]

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

Ah yeh another excellent stadium with an unusual element where you enter the away end half way up the stand.

Fair enough if the Ricoh impressed you. For me it's an out of town bowl stuck between a bunch of A roads. I don't think there's a single pub within a 10 minute walk from it.

Then inside theres that massive white wall down one side that kills any chance of an atmosphere coming from all sides. It's a dead stadium in my opinion and can't hold a candle to some of the others being discussed in this thread.

The Ricoh is a soulless UFO, that's landed by the A444 and some retail parks.

[Robbored]

20 minutes ago, Mike Hunt-Hertz said:

The Ricoh is a soulless UFO, that's landed by the A444 and some retail parks.

I’m talking about the design Mike. The ‘D’ design is very innovative. I liked it.

Pubs nearby don’t interest me.

[downendcity]

What defines a good ground?

A City away win!

[Eddie Hitler]

I used to know a few Germans from work and they loved English football grounds for their atmosphere because their grounds had a running track between the stands and the pitch so that they weren't close to the action.

A decent amount of terracing for those who wish to stand always adds to the atmosphere.

Good stewarding.  If you leave your seat you keep w\lking, you don't stop and block either the view of those sitting or the exit.

[spudski]

4 hours ago, SecretSam said:

News of Portsmouth's promotion, and comments about 'a proper ground' lead me to wonder: exactly what is a 'good ground' these days? There's still apparently a lot of love for old grounds, despite drawbacks (legroom, facilities, accessibility) because they are deemed to offer a better 'atmosphere'. Or maybe it's the classic British disease of nostalgia?

For me, I like a ground where I can see, there's reasonable comfort (I'm paying solid money, so expect my 173cm frame to be accommodated), the loos are OK and the stands are tight to the pitch. I'm genuinely not bothered about standing at my age (55) unless the tickets are very cheap.

What are your thoughts?

It's not a British thing about ' Nostalgia '. 

I have many friends in Italy and other European countries who all said we are nuts for pulling down old stadiums, like Highbury and parts of Villa etc. 

Anything designed by Archie Leitch defined British football. 

https://footballgroundguide.com/stadiums-archibald-leitch-design#:~:text=Archibald Leitch biography,-Born in Glasgow&text=He would go on to,lives on to this day.

I want a Stadium with history, bang in the centre of the community. Each stadium with it's own identity. 

Surrounded by pubs and places to socialise. 

Free parking on match days and good public transport connections. 

An away end, home end, good acoustics. Both with Terracing. 

Sides with seating. 

No electronic advertising around pitch. 

Lights turned off in stadium on night games. 

Stands close to the pitch. 

I don't want violence, but I want an edge to visiting the ground. An atmosphere. ( Which the Club say they want, but do everything to deter it )

I don't want it to feel like I'm visiting a shopping Arcade or Cinema, which it does now. 

Lastly...I'd crack down massively on drug use in the Stadium. More respect shown to fellow supporters. Look after, the kids, elderly, infirm. Respect and look after them...don't abuse them. More 'Policing' by the 'elders' of the ' tribe'. 

 

 

 

[SecretSam]

4 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'll be honest and say that in addition to the factors you point out - sight lines, comfort, tight to the pitch -  a huge part of it for me is the area surrounding the ground.

Stadiums that are set in the heart of a city, surrounded by characterful pubs and bars, a variety of food options, within an interesting walk from a railway station, those are special. Places like the old Griffin Park, Kenilworth Road, St James Park (both Exeter and Newcastle), the City Ground, even somewhere like Stamford Bridge or the Emirates. The atmosphere at these grounds begins outside the gates and it's often wonderful.

That's the only good thing about Kenilworth Rd, what a dump.

Regarding location, some non-central are bad - Reading, for example - but MK Dons' ground is a doddle to get to by car.

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It's not a British thing about ' Nostalgia '. 

I have many friends in Italy and other European countries who all said we are nuts for pulling down old stadiums, like Highbury and parts of Villa etc. 

My point about nostalgia was wider than just footie.

Regarding Italian grounds, most of them are owned by the local authority, have running tracks, and aren't well maintained.

[SecretSam]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

It's not a British thing about ' Nostalgia '. 

I have many friends in Italy and other European countries who all said we are nuts for pulling down old stadiums, like Highbury and parts of Villa etc. 

Anything designed by Archie Leitch defined British football. 

https://footballgroundguide.com/stadiums-archibald-leitch-design#:~:text=Archibald Leitch biography,-Born in Glasgow&text=He would go on to,lives on to this day.

I want a Stadium with history, bang in the centre of the community. Each stadium with it's own identity. 

Surrounded by pubs and places to socialise. 

Free parking on match days and good public transport connections. 

An away end, home end, good acoustics. Both with Terracing. 

Sides with seating. 

No electronic advertising around pitch. 

Lights turned off in stadium on night games. 

Stands close to the pitch. 

I don't want violence, but I want an edge to visiting the ground. An atmosphere. ( Which the Club say they want, but do everything to deter it )

I don't want it to feel like I'm visiting a shopping Arcade or Cinema, which it does now. 

Lastly...I'd crack down massively on drug use in the Stadium. More respect shown to fellow supporters. Look after, the kids, elderly, infirm. Respect and look after them...don't abuse them. More 'Policing' by the 'elders' of the ' tribe'. 

 

 

 

So, basically, all grounds pre-the Taylor report? 

[Aaron-Bcfc]

Elland Road, Portman Road, Carrow Road and The Hawthorns are probably my favourite ones from the current Championship.

St Mary’s, The King Power, The Ricoh, The Riverside, The Liberty and The New York are all equally crap generic soulless bowls, though at least some of them are fairly centrally located.

[downendcity]

4 hours ago, spudski said:

It's not a British thing about ' Nostalgia '. 

I have many friends in Italy and other European countries who all said we are nuts for pulling down old stadiums, like Highbury and parts of Villa etc. 

Anything designed by Archie Leitch defined British football. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know it's Archibald Leach!

Edited April 17 by downendcity

[eardun]

I’ve always liked going to Fulham. So why is that?

- Location plays a big part - easy to get to on the train; pleasant, short and safe walk along the river; plenty of places to eat and drink nearby
- A ground with some character/history (not a soulless bowl) 

- Good sized away allocation.

 

 

 

[Chairman Mao]

6 hours ago, trickydickiecardigan said:

Always liked the Valley . No one has mentioned the wonderful stadium in North Bristol, soon I believe will be extended to 20000  how marvelous!

Not been to the Mem for many years. Last time i went it was in the away end because my mate was a Bolton fan. Now the Mem is obviously quite horrific and very embarrassing for Rovers as a home ground. BUT (and its a big but) I still prefer it to a soulless modern bowl. Sure some of the stands are tents, but at least its memorable! 

[Red-Robbo]

9 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'll be honest and say that in addition to the factors you point out - sight lines, comfort, tight to the pitch -  a huge part of it for me is the area surrounding the ground.

Stadiums that are set in the heart of a city, surrounded by characterful pubs and bars, a variety of food options, within an interesting walk from a railway station, those are special. Places like the old Griffin Park, Kenilworth Road, St James Park (both Exeter and Newcastle), the City Ground, even somewhere like Stamford Bridge or the Emirates. The atmosphere at these grounds begins outside the gates and it's often wonderful.

Pub options near Kennilworth Road are woeful. And to be honest it isn't much better at Stamford Bridge!

Griffin Park - now you're talking! And even the new ground has an easy walk to some lovely old pubs in Kew Village. 

My favourite away ground - although I won't be travelling there this visit - is Carrow Road. Near the city centre and not too far from the station, nice waterside pubs nearby and some cracking bars and restaurants. Far away enough to be a real jaunt. I usually stay over as I'm a big fan of the city and Norfolk on general. 

[ExiledAjax]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Pub options near Kennilworth Road are woeful. And to be honest it isn't much better at Stamford Bridge!

Griffin Park - now you're talking! And even the new ground has an easy walk to some lovely old pubs in Kew Village. 

My favourite away ground - although I won't be travelling there this visit - is Carrow Road. Near the city centre and not too far from the station, nice waterside pubs nearby and some cracking bars and restaurants. Far away enough to be a real jaunt. I usually stay over as I'm a big fan of the city and Norfolk on general. 

They don't all tick every box.

I've made a late decision to see if I can get the wife's approval for a Carrow Road visit this Saturday. My Best Man lives in Norwich and we do a little lunch/beers/football day every now and then. It's been too long.

[TV Tom]

13 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Pub options near Kennilworth Road are woeful. And to be honest it isn't much better at Stamford Bridge!

Griffin Park - now you're talking! And even the new ground has an easy walk to some lovely old pubs in Kew Village. 

My favourite away ground - although I won't be travelling there this visit - is Carrow Road. Near the city centre and not too far from the station, nice waterside pubs nearby and some cracking bars and restaurants. Far away enough to be a real jaunt. I usually stay over as I'm a big fan of the city and Norfolk on general. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, TV Tom said:

 

I do oppose the pedestrianisation of the city centre though. People need access to Tandy's.