Academy Retained Lists- Prev 2 yrs

[Jacki]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

However much stick we want to give, very few prove us wrong.

Its a tough gig trying to get a deal when released.  And once they leave that pro environment it’s hard to get back.  Fair play to Harper, 30+ apps for Exeter.  He was the one I was really surprised we let go.  But it was still the right decision.

James Morton (it’s his birthday today) is at NL Southend.

I guess for some, once out of the full time game they can earn more holding down a job and getting £200 per game somewhere.

Football is a brutal environment and the power dynamic is so heavily loaded in favour of the clubs. Communication with players is dreadful in the main from what I see and hear.

I know of a second year scholar at one of the local clubs whose season ends next week and he still hasn’t been told if he has a pro deal for next year. I know of another lad who is a second year pro at a Championship club and he hasn’t been told what his fate is yet either. These lads work their backsides off, it’s all they’ve ever known in many cases, and even this late in the day some of them still don’t know it they have a job at the end of May.

My own experience is also one of poor communication. Unless you’re one of very few ‘chosen’ players in a club’s academy you turn up week in week out, have no idea what the future holds for you, and have to be where they tell you to be when they tell you to be there often at very short notice. As players and parents you know you just have to accept that’s how it is if you want to be involved, but it’s no wonder a lot of boys are lost to the game when they’re released. It’s very easy to become disillusioned when you put your heart and soul into something, get little feedback or encouragement, and end up getting rejected with minimal explanation as to why. As I say, you know what you’re getting into but it is a brutal environment. 

[Davefevs]

6 minutes ago, Jacki said:

Football is a brutal environment and the power dynamic is so heavily loaded in favour of the clubs. Communication with players is dreadful in the main from what I see and hear.

I know of a second year scholar at one of the local clubs whose season ends next week and he still hasn’t been told if he has a pro deal for next year. I know of another lad who is a second year pro at a Championship club and he hasn’t been told what his fate is yet either. These lads work their backsides off, it’s all they’ve ever known in many cases, and even this late in the day some of them still don’t know it they have a job at the end of May.

My own experience is also one of poor communication. Unless you’re one of very few ‘chosen’ players in a club’s academy you turn up week in week out, have no idea what the future holds for you, and have to be where they tell you to be when they tell you to be there often at very short notice. As players and parents you know you just have to accept that’s how it is if you want to be involved, but it’s no wonder a lot of boys are lost to the game when they’re released. It’s very easy to become disillusioned when you put your heart and soul into something, get little feedback or encouragement, and end up getting rejected with minimal explanation as to why. As I say, you know what you’re getting into but it is a brutal environment. 

Yep, very true, a real shitty side to it, I can imagine.

[Silvio Dante]

13 minutes ago, Jacki said:

Football is a brutal environment and the power dynamic is so heavily loaded in favour of the clubs. Communication with players is dreadful in the main from what I see and hear.

I know of a second year scholar at one of the local clubs whose season ends next week and he still hasn’t been told if he has a pro deal for next year. I know of another lad who is a second year pro at a Championship club and he hasn’t been told what his fate is yet either. These lads work their backsides off, it’s all they’ve ever known in many cases, and even this late in the day some of them still don’t know it they have a job at the end of May.

My own experience is also one of poor communication. Unless you’re one of very few ‘chosen’ players in a club’s academy you turn up week in week out, have no idea what the future holds for you, and have to be where they tell you to be when they tell you to be there often at very short notice. As players and parents you know you just have to accept that’s how it is if you want to be involved, but it’s no wonder a lot of boys are lost to the game when they’re released. It’s very easy to become disillusioned when you put your heart and soul into something, get little feedback or encouragement, and end up getting rejected with minimal explanation as to why. As I say, you know what you’re getting into but it is a brutal environment. 

Great post.

My lad is an excellent keeper but I’m also realistic enough to know that the chances of him making it are likely to be limited, and that if he did get into the academy system, he’d be more likely to be one of the “making up the numbers” than one of the sure things. Nothing wrong with that - they need 11 to play a game and 10 of those are unlikely to make it. Thats the game.

But as a parent you weigh up the chance (which even if in the system is small) of making it as a pro, versus the damage that may be caused by being spit out by the system. 
 

Put it this way - knowing what I know, from speaking to parents and also posts like this, it would never be a straightforward decision.

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, Jacki said:

Football is a brutal environment and the power dynamic is so heavily loaded in favour of the clubs. Communication with players is dreadful in the main from what I see and hear.

I know of a second year scholar at one of the local clubs whose season ends next week and he still hasn’t been told if he has a pro deal for next year. I know of another lad who is a second year pro at a Championship club and he hasn’t been told what his fate is yet either. These lads work their backsides off, it’s all they’ve ever known in many cases, and even this late in the day some of them still don’t know it they have a job at the end of May.

My own experience is also one of poor communication. Unless you’re one of very few ‘chosen’ players in a club’s academy you turn up week in week out, have no idea what the future holds for you, and have to be where they tell you to be when they tell you to be there often at very short notice. As players and parents you know you just have to accept that’s how it is if you want to be involved, but it’s no wonder a lot of boys are lost to the game when they’re released. It’s very easy to become disillusioned when you put your heart and soul into something, get little feedback or encouragement, and end up getting rejected with minimal explanation as to why. As I say, you know what you’re getting into but it is a brutal environment. 

Couldnt agree more. One of my childhood best mates was pro at Rovers for a few years, was taken out of school here and there to train with the first team when we were in year 11 (naturally, the coolest thing imaginable at that age). 
 

Ended up signing a 2 year deal pro, first team player, starting a fair few games here and there, then renewed for a further year before being released the year they went down to the conference in 2014. 
 

On the face of it, he’s living the dream/made it/a pro athlete/anything else you want to say. And probably fell into the usual stereotypes many people would think of a young footballer at that time, lounging around playing fifa together etc. 

He had basically no intention of trying to climb back through the leagues of trying to scrap off one year deals here and there, ended up turning down the latter at Exeter and maybe some others. 
 

Had a chat with him about it, as typically me and our mates couldn’t get our head around it, would tease him a bit for ‘giving up’ etc, but he made a snap comment that really changed my perspective on any young player going through that period, of which there’s hundreds and hundreds at any time - not quite verbatim, but basically

“Would you take a full-time job being paid £12k a year for the next few years, where you could get told you’re no longer needed & get sacked at any point?”

Edited April 22 by petehinton

[HengroveReds]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Maddox and Kane at least weren’t released though, they were pinched through EPPP

Yes that’s right. Remember George Dowling was same age group and stuck with city despite interest from Arsenal & more while Jacob & Herbie left. 

[Jacki]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Great post.

My lad is an excellent keeper but I’m also realistic enough to know that the chances of him making it are likely to be limited, and that if he did get into the academy system, he’d be more likely to be one of the “making up the numbers” than one of the sure things. Nothing wrong with that - they need 11 to play a game and 10 of those are unlikely to make it. Thats the game.

But as a parent you weigh up the chance (which even if in the system is small) of making it as a pro, versus the damage that may be caused by being spit out by the system. 
 

Put it this way - knowing what I know, from speaking to parents and also posts like this, it would never be a straightforward decision.

I would never advise anyone not to go into an academy, but you do have to think of all the possible (and most likely) outcomes and go into it with your eyes wide open. My boy has loved it in the main. He’s made some great friends, had amazing experiences and played against some players who will probably make it to the very top. He’s learnt about resilience, teamwork, how to deal with authority and all sorts of other stuff and he’s had some fantastic life experiences. He’s also a good player who works unbelievably hard on the pitch. 

Overall I would say that the good outweighs the bad but you definitely need to consider everything before you make the commitment to join an academy. 

[Tony Tootle]

11 minutes ago, HengroveReds said:

Yes that’s right. Remember George Dowling was same age group and stuck with city despite interest from Arsenal & more while Jacob & Herbie left. 

Fairly sure he’s a Scaffolder now isn’t he? 

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Lrrr said:

Maddox and Kane at least weren’t released though, they were pinched through EPPP

None of those 3 named has made it at Championship level, either.

Kane had one season at it earlier in his career, Maddox never got near it & is now a sub at a team about to exit the Football League.

Scott was let go by Cincinatti after 4 games.

[Northern Red]

1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said:

Great post.

My lad is an excellent keeper but I’m also realistic enough to know that the chances of him making it are likely to be limited, and that if he did get into the academy system, he’d be more likely to be one of the “making up the numbers” than one of the sure things. Nothing wrong with that - they need 11 to play a game and 10 of those are unlikely to make it. Thats the game.

But as a parent you weigh up the chance (which even if in the system is small) of making it as a pro, versus the damage that may be caused by being spit out by the system. 
 

Put it this way - knowing what I know, from speaking to parents and also posts like this, it would never be a straightforward decision.

Dunno if you saw/heard the interview that Dean Holden and his son Joey did with the BBC a few months ago, he'd just turned 16 and was playing for Oldham's youth team. Dean made the point that the academy system works for certain players, but definitely not for everyone, and they deliberately didn't put Joey into one because he wasn't physically ready at the time and the danger was that he'd have got lost in the system, not developed and be let go at 16 having lost his love for the game, as he'd seen happen to other kids in his time. Whereas he was able to carry on playing for local sides, socialise with his mates, concentrate properly on his education and be a normal teenager, and now he's making his way at Oldham.

[And Its Smith]

9 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Dunno if you saw/heard the interview that Dean Holden and his son Joey did with the BBC a few months ago, he'd just turned 16 and was playing for Oldham's youth team. Dean made the point that the academy system works for certain players, but definitely not for everyone, and they deliberately didn't put Joey into one because he wasn't physically ready at the time and the danger was that he'd have got lost in the system, not developed and be let go at 16 having lost his love for the game, as he'd seen happen to other kids in his time. Whereas he was able to carry on playing for local sides, socialise with his mates, concentrate properly on his education and be a normal teenager, and now he's making his way at Oldham.

A friend of mine has a kid who is 13. Incredibly good player but very small. He’s rejected 3 Prem Clubs and Bristol City so far.  Very brave decision. 

[Silvio Dante]

20 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Dunno if you saw/heard the interview that Dean Holden and his son Joey did with the BBC a few months ago, he'd just turned 16 and was playing for Oldham's youth team. Dean made the point that the academy system works for certain players, but definitely not for everyone, and they deliberately didn't put Joey into one because he wasn't physically ready at the time and the danger was that he'd have got lost in the system, not developed and be let go at 16 having lost his love for the game, as he'd seen happen to other kids in his time. Whereas he was able to carry on playing for local sides, socialise with his mates, concentrate properly on his education and be a normal teenager, and now he's making his way at Oldham.

It’s a conversation me and @Steve Watts have had a few times - there is a real thing in both youth coaching and as a parent where you have to realise that going x way is not the best both long term and short term even if it’s the accepted route. In a way, not being approached is the best thing as it means the kids enjoy it - if they’re good enough they will make it eventually as everyone gets watched.

Steve would probably agree though that we might take losing the one who could make it as he’s just so bloody annoying!

[Jacki]

7 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s a conversation me and @Steve Watts have had a few times - there is a real thing in both youth coaching and as a parent where you have to realise that going x way is not the best both long term and short term even if it’s the accepted route. In a way, not being approached is the best thing as it means the kids enjoy it - if they’re good enough they will make it eventually as everyone gets watched.

Steve would probably agree though that we might take losing the one who could make it as he’s just so bloody annoying!

I really admire players and parents who turn down academy opportunities, in my experience very few do as they don’t want to miss their chance. Unless you’re Alex Scott or another kid who stands out an absolute mile, you might only get one opportunity to get into the academy environment and there would always be the worry of ‘what if’ if you didn’t take it. More help and advice on what it’s really like would be useful for parents and kids before they make that decision though I think, although you do usually get a 6 week trial to test the water.

Holden keeping his kid out of the system is an interesting one. You definitely see kids who lose their love for the game… they’re training 3 times a week, playing another time and once they’ve done school work have very limited free time. The training sessions are often repetitive and they’re treated like young professionals from a very young age. It can be a real grind and I know of kids who openly say they’ll stop playing altogether if they don’t get a scholarship at the club they’re at because football is just not the same to them anymore. It almost becomes like a second school for them. So it’s not a straightforward thing.

I’m glad my lad has done it and overall it’s been good for him but there have been a number of times where we’ve both got pretty fed up with it. As I’ve said before, you need to go into it with your eyes wide open, be realistic with your kid about likely outcomes, and just make sure that they enjoy it as much as they can. Which isn’t always easy. 

Edited April 23 by Jacki
Typo

[Steve Watts]

13 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

It’s a conversation me and @Steve Watts have had a few times - there is a real thing in both youth coaching and as a parent where you have to realise that going x way is not the best both long term and short term even if it’s the accepted route. In a way, not being approached is the best thing as it means the kids enjoy it - if they’re good enough they will make it eventually as everyone gets watched.

Steve would probably agree though that we might take losing the one who could make it as he’s just so bloody annoying!

He's annoying because he takes after his old man....

[Silvio Dante]

31 minutes ago, Steve Watts said:

He's annoying because he takes after his old man....

I’ll set ‘em up, you knock ‘em down….

[alexukhc]

22 hours ago, Tony Tootle said:

Fairly sure he’s a Scaffolder now isn’t he? 

After his prison stint..

[luke_bristol]

6 minutes ago, alexukhc said:

After his prison stint..

Wikipedia says he signed for Swindon Supermarine in 2019 but hasn’t made an appearance, I assume the stint at Supermarine didn’t work out and he quit football for building work?

[alexukhc]

29 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Wikipedia says he signed for Swindon Supermarine in 2019 but hasn’t made an appearance, I assume the stint at Supermarine didn’t work out and he quit football for building work?

Jailed in 2020 for 28 months, still at Supermarine, I just don’t think his wiki’s been updated 

[TransferForum]

As someone who’s had the joys of navigating the Academy system a couple of things for me. Firstly your son or daughter has got to want to go into it and to enjoy it. Secondly you can go into an Academy too young but also too old. Very few of the later arrivals get Pro Contracts cos they’ve missed out on the training and hours an Academy provides. Finally once in Academy I think  players will find their level. Yes there’s luck in terms of injuries and changes in managers etc but broadly you end up playing at your level irrespective of whether you move to a higher category Academy or not.

[Lrrr]

The thing about trying to enter an academy later is that the club will only bring in a player if they’re significantly better than what they already have in that position or they’re short in that position. Being in the system earlier gives that player that advantage 

[HengroveReds]

Yeovil just released squad update , Josh Owers released, when he was here I thought he was one who was going to take off

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, HengroveReds said:

Yeovil just released squad update , Josh Owers released, when he was here I thought he was one who was going to take off

Just seen.

I thought he had that rattyness about him to have an EFL career.  Think he was a bit loose technically / with the ball, but he’d get it back for you.  Hope he finds a new club and can kick his career back off.

Guessing Sam Pearson waiting to see what offers he is gonna get.

[petehinton]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Just seen.

I thought he had that rattyness about him to have an EFL career.  Think he was a bit loose technically / with the ball, but he’d get it back for you.  Hope he finds a new club and can kick his career back off.

Guessing Sam Pearson waiting to see what offers he is gonna get.

Think Josh has WSM written all over him, although may not be good enough on the ball or technical enough for their style. I never quite saw it in him personally, I guess Yeovil need to be a bit more ruthless now though. 
 

James Morton been flying at Southend. Would be amazed if he’s not back in the EFL within the next few windows. 

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, petehinton said:

James Morton been flying at Southend. Would be amazed if he’s not back in the EFL within the next few windows. 

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