SOTC

[Davefevs]

Conway’s bit made the BBC Championship page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyy68dqpqo

[W-S-M Seagull]

51 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Conway’s bit made the BBC Championship page:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c6pyy68dqpqo

"It's obviously not ideal for me. Tommy's got a decision to make," 

[stephenkibby.]

1 hour ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

"It's obviously not ideal for me. Tommy's got a decision to make," 

Jesus, you do have it bad.

[Bedred31]

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

[Davefevs]

8 minutes ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

I think his positioning of the decision for Conway was smart.

[And Its Smith]

1 hour ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

Or get a signing on fee and more wages elsewhere 

[fgrsimon]

On 13/05/2024 at 20:24, W-S-M Seagull said:

Mebude was brought in with the intention of purchasing him in the summer. So I think as that didn't work out we're just looking for a replacement for him.

A replacement for Mebude shouldn't be too hard to find. Hell I could even put myself forward! I'm 60 but reckon I could manage 30 mins on the pitch, 20 of which were spent running around like a headless chicken...

[Jacki]

I thought Manning was spot on about Conway too. It sounds like we’ve made him a good offer, the ball is in his court and it’s not ideal that he hasn’t signed the contract. All of those things are just common sense.

I find the whole Conway situation disappointing if I’m honest. With Scott and Semenyo, you could see that they were a clear class above and that a move to the Premier League was inevitable. I just don’t think that’s the case with Conway yet. He’s a good player, but as Manning said when he talked about a player’s journey going quicker than that of the club, it doesn’t feel like he’s outgrown us yet in the way the other two had. Therefore, I think that signing for us would be good for his continued development as a player.

I suspect that his agent has asked for silly wages though so I imagine he’ll be on his way. I do get it, and understand he will be able to get a better deal elsewhere. I also understand more than most that football is an extremely fragile career. I’ll just be disappointed to see him go when he’s still got so much improving to do and BCFC would be a great place for him to do it. 

[Robbored]

Just now, Jacki said:

I thought Manning was spot on about Conway too. It sounds like we’ve made him a good offer, the ball is in his court and it’s not ideal that he hasn’t signed the contract. All of those things are just common sense.

I find the whole Conway situation disappointing if I’m honest. With Scott and Semenyo, you could see that they were a clear class above and that a move to the Premier League was inevitable. I just don’t think that’s the case with Conway yet. He’s a good player, but as Manning said when he talked about a player’s journey going quicker than that of the club, it doesn’t feel like he’s outgrown us yet in the way the other two had. Therefore, I think that signing for us would be good for his continued development as a player.

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

I would say pretty much every Champ club would take TC and he’d be a key member of their squad, just like he is here.  And for any PL clubs circling, he wouldn’t be first choice, but he’d be around the squad.

The issue is the here and now Robbo.  Because he only has a year left on his contract.  So if he won’t sign his deal, we are backed into a corner:

• sell him now
• keep him, hope he signs an extension at some point
• keep him and get compensation next summer (which if he went to Scotland or Europe would be £300k)

We don’t have the luxury of waiting for him to get 20 goals next season, because his value won’t be dependent on goals, but length of contract (diminishing).

I’ve no idea how this will play out.

But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

[FNQ]

10 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

Not so sure thats how TC may see it… If we are serious about bringing in a powerful #9 then it’s more than likely that Tommy will not play as many minutes as he has this season and will be left fighting for the scraps with Nahki and perhaps SPH. So personally I still think that he will eventually leave, the club though quite rightly want him signed up to facilitate the best possible sale price, but that’s certainly not Tommy’s biggest priority.

[Kid in the Riot]

18 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Not so sure thats how TC may see it… If we are serious about bringing in a powerful #9 then it’s more than likely that Tommy will not play as many minutes as he has this season and will be left fighting for the scraps with Nahki and perhaps SPH. So personally I still think that he will eventually leave, the club though quite rightly want him signed up to facilitate the best possible sale price, but that’s certainly not Tommy’s biggest priority.

If TC is that good then he shouldn't be worried about some competition coming in. And if he thinks he can move to a "bigger" club then fine, but he isn't going to be a guaranteed starter at a higher level, far from it. 

FWIW, I don't think he's signing a new deal so interesting to see where he ends up, as I wouldn't have thought there'll be a mad rush for his signature.

[Roe]

23 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

• But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

I see people say this a lot but I'm not sure what else the club are supposed to do. You can't force someone to sign a contract, so what do you do? Not play Conway at all going back how far before he signs?

How many other players would you have to sign on longer deals in case they develop well?

It's just an inevitability of football that every club in the world faces.

[W-S-M Seagull]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

You’re spot on Jackie.

There aren’t many other Championship teams that Conway would get into let alone a PL outfit. He’s still a young guy who’s learning his craft and another season or two at City would really improve his game, particularly his finishing.

If he hits the 20 goal mark next season then the PL will take note and his value will increase significantly.

Would we? Manning made a lot about Conway changing the way he plays to fit the way Manning wants to play. Would Tommy consider that the best thing for himself? Or would he rather play for a team that plays to his strengths? A team that actually provides him with chances? Tommy is more than capable of getting 20. I'm not sure we are capable of providing him with 20 goals tho. 

If you're Tommy Conway, would you be rushing to sign a contract when we've been saying for months we want to sign another striker? Knowing we only play with one striker? 

The reality is Tommy could sign a new contract and then find himself on the bench. 

[cidered abroad]

25 minutes ago, FNQ said:

Not so sure thats how TC may see it… If we are serious about bringing in a powerful #9 then it’s more than likely that Tommy will not play as many minutes as he has this season and will be left fighting for the scraps with Nahki and perhaps SPH. So personally I still think that he will eventually leave, the club though quite rightly want him signed up to facilitate the best possible sale price, but that’s certainly not Tommy’s biggest priority.

If we bring in a younger, more active target version of Chris Martin, then Conway as the most forward of the rest of the attack, should get a very good number of goals.

Benefits us while he is here and helps him to get the move he dreams of to a Prem team that isn't fighting for staying up all the time.

[Robbored]

25 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I would say pretty much every Champ club would take TC and he’d be a key member of their squad, just like he is here.  And for any PL clubs circling, he wouldn’t be first choice, but he’d be around the squad.

The issue is the here and now Robbo.  Because he only has a year left on his contract.  So if he won’t sign his deal, we are backed into a corner:

• sell him now
• keep him, hope he signs an extension at some point
• keep him and get compensation next summer (which if he went to Scotland or Europe would be £300k)

We don’t have the luxury of waiting for him to get 20 goals next season, because his value won’t be dependent on goals, but length of contract (diminishing).

I’ve no idea how this will play out.

But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

Dave - I completely understand the perfectly sensible points that you’ve made but those aren’t my main point.

I’m in the same camp as Manning although he was far more subtle in his phrasing than me. I seriously don’t think that Conway is anywhere near as good as many posters on here seem to think and to me he’s overrated. Imo another season or two at City will significantly develop his game should he sign a new deal.

Tbh - from a playing perspective should Conway allow his contract to run down it wouldn’t bother me as much as it did when Semenyo was sold. On many occasions last season City really missed Semenyo’s his pace and power.I can’t see myself thinking that about Conway should he move on.

[Robbored]

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Would we? Manning made a lot about Conway changing the way he plays to fit the way Manning wants to play. Would Tommy consider that the best thing for himself? Or would he rather play for a team that plays to his strengths? A team that actually provides him with chances? Tommy is more than capable of getting 20. I'm not sure we are capable of providing him with 20 goals tho. 

If you're Tommy Conway, would you be rushing to sign a contract when we've been saying for months we want to sign another striker? Knowing we only play with one striker? 

The reality is Tommy could sign a new contract and then find himself on the bench. 

No doubt Conway has improved under Manning. We can all see that.

However - I’m not sure that with the incoming signings the summer that Manning will stick to the one up top strategy. He’ll have a full preseason with an improved squad and it wouldn’t surprise me if he changes to two up top - we’ve seen how one up top has kinda suited the players he’s had but with another striker incoming plus any other additions (Twine?) I can see him changing things to maximise the strengths in his squad.

[Silvio Dante]

47 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But one thing we have to be better at is tying down our home-grown players on longer deals, and just as importantly, regularly extending them.  Especially those players who will undoubtedly have clubs sniffing around.  Semenyo, Scott’s sales in part driven by remaining contract length, now Conway.  We got good money for both the AS’s, but if we have to sell this summer i doubt we will get top-dollar for Conway.

 

Just on that last bit Dave, there is a degree of what the club could reasonably have done. If I take the last four/five players that have come through (either having been direct from academy or elsewhere) that have played significant minutes then it’s the following:

Scott - Signs start of 2020, contract signed March 2021, improved 4 year deal signed August 2021. New deal offered in Jan 2023

Semenyo - Signs 2017, Turns pro Jan 2018, 4 year deal with 1 year option signed June 2019

Bell - First 3 year deal April 2021 (I think). Signs 3 year deal July 2022, new 3 year deal August 2023

Conway - 3 year deal July 2022 (played 11 times at that point) new deal offered August 2023

With all of those bar the exception of Semenyo we’ve regularly offered new deals to try and keep them here. Ironically the one we did tie down was Semenyo and his probable real breakthrough coincided with the final years of his deal. Scott’s progress was such that he outgrew us quickly so was never signing but I’m not sure what else we could have done. Kind of ditto Conway - we’ve offered a new deal 12 months into a three year deal and most players won’t want 4-5 year deals as that loses them the whip hand in negotiations.

FWIW I think he’s going. I think last summer was a big deal there - not just seeing what his best mate did but also the relative lack of ambition shown - why commit if the club aren’t investing? If he stays it will be because the club do back Liam heavily and he sees an upside, but there’s a reason that deal hadn’t been signed for a year. And I do think he gets in most championship teams squads - I see him probably being a starter for a side in or around the top six.

He’ll have offers. But dispassionately, his record bar penalties isn’t great this season (and for me, not reflective of his true worth), and that, together with the contract, means I think we won’t get a great deal.

[JBFC II]

44 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Would we? Manning made a lot about Conway changing the way he plays to fit the way Manning wants to play. Would Tommy consider that the best thing for himself? Or would he rather play for a team that plays to his strengths? A team that actually provides him with chances? Tommy is more than capable of getting 20. I'm not sure we are capable of providing him with 20 goals tho. 

If you're Tommy Conway, would you be rushing to sign a contract when we've been saying for months we want to sign another striker? Knowing we only play with one striker? 

The reality is Tommy could sign a new contract and then find himself on the bench. 

If Conway wants to go to the top of the game then that would be exactly the reason why he should want to sign a new deal.

Make the manager view you as the main striker, even if one is brought in. 

He can't expect to make it in the premier league if he jumps ship from a mid table championship side as soon as he experiences some competition 

[petehinton]

2 hours ago, Jacki said:

I thought Manning was spot on about Conway too. It sounds like we’ve made him a good offer, the ball is in his court and it’s not ideal that he hasn’t signed the contract. All of those things are just common sense.

I find the whole Conway situation disappointing if I’m honest. With Scott and Semenyo, you could see that they were a clear class above and that a move to the Premier League was inevitable. I just don’t think that’s the case with Conway yet. He’s a good player, but as Manning said when he talked about a player’s journey going quicker than that of the club, it doesn’t feel like he’s outgrown us yet in the way the other two had. Therefore, I think that signing for us would be good for his continued development as a player.

I suspect that his agent has asked for silly wages though so I imagine he’ll be on his way. I do get it, and understand he will be able to get a better deal elsewhere. I also understand more than most that football is an extremely fragile career. I’ll just be disappointed to see him go when he’s still got so much improving to do and BCFC would be a great place for him to do it. 

I think it’s a combination of his agent, family, and having an insight into the new life his pal (Scott) now has after he moved up to the prem & all that entails. 

[mozo]

I think for Conway, joining a Bournemouth type club would be a risk. He's not guaranteed minutes, and at that level, being fit and hard working isn't enough. You need precision, and his shooting isn't consistently there. I think back to Armstrong joining Southampton and struggling for minutes. He was lethal in the Championship. 

From what Manning said in a previous interview, where he said Conway needs good advice from his agent. Its clear why ideas are lodging in Tommy's mind.

I think the best case scenario now is that we make an astute signing for a goalscorer, and that SPH has a cracking preseason and can contribute as the deputy.

[W-S-M Seagull]

4 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

If Conway wants to go to the top of the game then that would be exactly the reason why he should want to sign a new deal.

Make the manager view you as the main striker, even if one is brought in. 

He can't expect to make it in the premier league if he jumps ship from a mid table championship side as soon as he experiences some competition 

I think you're looking at this through the lens of what's best for us. 

At this current moment if you're Tommy Conway I'm not sure you'd think that staying here would be the best route to get to the top of the game. 

Why would you want to stay here to prove to the manager you're the main striker? When he could move easily to a top 6 team and earn more and have a bigger chance of getting to the premier league?

Tommy is at the very best stagnating here because we are stagnating. 

[Natchfever]

12 hours ago, Bedred31 said:

Manning’s Conway analysis spot on as far as I’m concerned. He’s got a decision to make and the smart move would be to commit to City. 

Why is that the smart move?

Genuine question as his form and therefore attractiveness went south last season.

[W-S-M Seagull]

12 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Why is that the smart move?

Genuine question as his form and therefore attractiveness went south last season.

Even with bringing Twine in, we struggled to provide Conway with chances. 

Tommy can't score chances if he's not provided with them. 

I've said this lots of times but if you put him in a team like Coventry then he scores 15-20 easily. 

Right now Tommy can potentially move to a lower premier league club or a top 6 side or go north to Scotland and get a huge pay rise. 

I'm not entirely sure those options would be there in 12 months time if us and Tommy have another similar season.

I think Tommy has done the smart thing already for himself by giving himself time to assess all of these options. 

We all would love Tommy to stay but I think our hand is quite weak at this point. 

[Bristol Rob]

10 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Or get a signing on fee and more wages elsewhere 

Are you suggesting we wouldn't offer a loyalty bonus and champion low wages?

[Natchfever]

1 minute ago, Bristol Rob said:

Are you suggesting we wouldn't offer a loyalty bonus and champion low wages?

I suspect any interested party would have more money to offer.

[Paul G]

On 13/05/2024 at 20:17, Mr Popodopolous said:

The possible wide player target was a new one.

Cornick, Sykes

Bell, Mehmeti

Benarous can play along the midfield too.

Clearly quality for the right price shouldn't be dismissed but is it a priority position- who goes?

Midfield, Knight, Bird, TGH, Williams just feels one too light although Naismith can play there too..feels like we are taking chances again with depth, versatility etc.

Cornick goes imo

[W-S-M Seagull]

5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Are you suggesting we wouldn't offer a loyalty bonus and champion low wages?

We may consider that we've made him a terrific offer by our standards but that offer is probably well less than what he can get elsewhere. That's the reality here. 

Our only advantage is Tommy being a fan and his family living close by. But would you accept 5-10k a week less just for those things? 

[Natchfever]

2 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

We may consider that we've made him a terrific offer by our standards but that offer is probably well less than what he can get elsewhere. That's the reality here. 

Our only advantage is Tommy being a fan and his family living close by. But would you accept 5-10k a week less just for those things? 

I cant imagine anyone close to Tommy suggesting he stays,  unless third party interest of note isnt actually there, or a mutually acceptable sale trigger fee can be agreed in return for a whopping loyalty bonus.

[JBFC II]

49 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

I think you're looking at this through the lens of what's best for us. 

At this current moment if you're Tommy Conway I'm not sure you'd think that staying here would be the best route to get to the top of the game. 

Why would you want to stay here to prove to the manager you're the main striker? When he could move easily to a top 6 team and earn more and have a bigger chance of getting to the premier league?

Tommy is at the very best stagnating here because we are stagnating. 

On the flip side would moving to a top half side, where he is less likely to be the main striker, actually help him get that step up?

If I were him I'd be fighting to be the main striker here, before moving too quickly up the ladder. Would he have a better chance of playing Premier league football by being 2nd choice at a Middlesbrough or west brom rather than being first choice here? I'm not sure. 

I wouldn't say he's stagnated either, he's a better player now than he was 12 months ago.