Prem teams voting on VAR

[Rocking Red Cyril]

Just picked up news that there is a proposal from Wolves. For premier teams to vote on weather to keep VAR or get rid. So as I understand VAR is planned to be in Championship next year.  It could all get a bit messy with all sorts of opinions, counter opinions, arguments and all sorts of chaos. And they only got till August to make a decision. Yes I get it VAR is not perfect but this all strikes me as getting very messy. 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

Word seems to be that Wolves need 13 others to vote to get rid, and they won't come close. VAR is here to stay, it seems.

[Markthehorn]

20 minutes ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Just picked up news that there is a proposal from Wolves. For premier teams to vote on weather to keep VAR or get rid. So as I understand VAR is planned to be in Championship next year.  It could all get a bit messy with all sorts of opinions, counter opinions, arguments and all sorts of chaos. And they only got till August to make a decision. Yes I get it VAR is not perfect but this all strikes me as getting very messy. 

 

Think that was an April Fools joke !

 

VAR is an example of be careful what you wish for.

Edited May 15 by Markthehorn

[Robbored]

In principle VaR is a good addition to the game but in my view it’s over complicated when ruling on a goal. Surely it’s possible to restrict the types of offences and reduce the amount of VaR involvement.

For example - what’s the most common complaint from fans when their team concedes? It’s offside and that relatively straightforward VaR to assess.

What it shouldn’t do highlight a possible handball or other infringement when reviewing a goal - just keep it simple.

As for penalties. Those awarded by the referee should be reviewed and overturned if the ref has made an error but what it shouldn’t do is notify the referee if he’d missed one and tell him to review the incident - it soils the game imv. If he’d missed one then he’s missed one - end of. 

[Malago]

39 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Word seems to be that Wolves need 13 others to vote to get rid, and they won't come close. VAR is here to stay, it seems.

Probably true, but if clubs put the vote to their season ticket holders, my guess is the supporters would vote to scrap it.  

[westonred]

It slows the game down it leads to even more controversary Get Rid I Say

[JAWS]

Perhaps they ought to put a vote to supporters too. Think that would be an overwhelming get rid

[formerly known as ivan]

7 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Word seems to be that Wolves need 13 others to vote to get rid, and they won't come close. VAR is here to stay, it seems.

Yep, needs a two thirds vote to pass.

They will publish who voted what and then throughout the coming season we should monitor how many times someone who voted to keep VAR moan about it!

[cidercity]

I absolutely hate VAR, it’s taken all the spontaneous joy out of the game. We have played the game for over 100 years without the need for it. Give me a ref’s mistake over waiting around for 5 minutes to see if a toe nail was offside before you can feel the joy of the goal, which is gone by then, it is only the opinion of another ref in an office anyway so let’s just stay with what the one on field thinks.

[SecretSam]

The thing with VAR is, there's nothing wrong with the technology - only the implementation. 

From what I've seen - and we're talking MOTD here, not live games - the main issues are:

• It's used way, way too much - it was supposed to be for borderline or tricky on field decisions, OR where the officials had made a Horlicks. Not some offside call determined by the position of a shoelace
• There's no control over whether it's implemented - in other sports (cricket, for example) it's the umpires or players 'send it upstairs'. And the players have a limit on the number of calls they can make - so it's an added element of jeopardy
• The crowd are left in the dark - they can't see what's going on. Rugby, cricket - it's on a screen, the crowd can see what's being debated, they're engaged in it - but at the moment in football, VAR is done to the fans and players. It's like a secret between the officials
• IT'S TOO BLOODY SLOW. 

Fix that lot, VAR works. Look at goal line technology - admittedly more binary - but that works really, really well. Because it's simple, everyone gets it, and it's instant.

[slartibartfast]

11 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Just picked up news that there is a proposal from Wolves. For premier teams to vote on weather to keep VAR or get rid. So as I understand VAR is planned to be in Championship next year.  It could all get a bit messy with all sorts of opinions, counter opinions, arguments and all sorts of chaos. And they only got till August to make a decision. Yes I get it VAR is not perfect but this all strikes me as getting very messy. 

 

Isn't it a FIFA/UEFA thing, then ?

[downendcity]

3 hours ago, SecretSam said:

The thing with VAR is, there's nothing wrong with the technology - only the implementation. 

From what I've seen - and we're talking MOTD here, not live games - the main issues are:

• It's used way, way too much - it was supposed to be for borderline or tricky on field decisions, OR where the officials had made a Horlicks. Not some offside call determined by the position of a shoelace
• There's no control over whether it's implemented - in other sports (cricket, for example) it's the umpires or players 'send it upstairs'. And the players have a limit on the number of calls they can make - so it's an added element of jeopardy
• The crowd are left in the dark - they can't see what's going on. Rugby, cricket - it's on a screen, the crowd can see what's being debated, they're engaged in it - but at the moment in football, VAR is done to the fans and players. It's like a secret between the officials
• IT'S TOO BLOODY SLOW. 

Fix that lot, VAR works. Look at goal line technology - admittedly more binary - but that works really, really well. Because it's simple, everyone gets it, and it's instant.

[SecretSam]

Just now, downendcity said:

Wot I said

[phantom]

Can't see it happening as the EPL have already committed to using the virtual offside that was used in the last World Cup and they are also bringing in the refs communicating via the PA to advise on decisions

[exAtyeoMax]

Please get rid…or at least by 25/26 season when it will affect us…

[Nogbad the Bad]

The Swedish F.A. has rejected VAR.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/var-plans-scrapped-in-sweden-after-widespread-club-and-fan-pressure-sees-fa-take-stand-against-technology

 

[hinsleburg]

I'd like to keep it but do what they do in the A-League where, similar to Rugby, the referee is Mic'd up and announces every decision to the crowd. Doesn't mean we need to agree with every decision but at least the people in the ground have clarity!

I still think the issue isn't VAR it's the application and 'clear and obvious', I think the threshold needs to be lower and referee's need to be encouraged to give what they see knowing that if they've made a mistake they have the choice to go to the screen and change it. They're shielded to not make decisions because of 'clear and obvious' but if refs are empowered to give decisions on the pitch and use VAR as a safety net I think we're likely to get less controversial decisions. 

[Charlie BCFC]

Get rid of it, keep goal line technology and then trial the automated offsides. That should be enough for me, the fouls and red cards will always be subjective 

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, slartibartfast said:

Isn't it a FIFA/UEFA thing, then ?

The governing body of a nations football can choose to use VAR. VAR is not mandatory across top level football.

The regulatory body that governs the laws of the game are IFAB (includes EUFA/FIFA), and IFAB set the video assistant protocol if VAR is used. 

[chinapig]

Let's go back to the good old days when nobody questioned the officials' decisions, people didn't scrutinise endless replays to show the referee was wrong, fans didn't abuse them and claim they were biased against their team and managers refused to criticise referees. And nobody argued that refs needed to have video technology to help them.

I look forward to Gary O'Neil inviting the referee to have a friendly glass of wine in his office after Wolves have been denied a penalty with no review possible. Or in the case of Chris Wilder, offers the officials free sandwiches.

Edited May 16 by chinapig

[sephjnr]

To repeat myself:

Ten seconds to decide if it's worthy of checking, then sixty maximum with the referee straight away. That way they're all looking at it together, not framing it like the ref's being scolded.

Better cameras that are faster and show the movement of the ball-to-foot smoother, if they insist on pinpointing and using the lines.

and as a new suggestion, managers get one challenge per half, if the decision stands they lose a sub.

 

[exAtyeoMax]

1 minute ago, sephjnr said:

To repeat myself:

Ten seconds to decide if it's worthy of checking, then sixty maximum with the referee straight away. That way they're all looking at it together, not framing it like the ref's being scolded.

Better cameras that are faster and show the movement of the ball-to-foot smoother, if they insist on pinpointing and using the lines.

and as a new suggestion, managers get one challenge per half, if the decision stands they lose a sub.

 

No. Just get rid of it.

[Markthehorn]

12 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

No. Just get rid of it.

Yes if they are made to rush you might still get errors and teams will complain the ref was too quick to malt a decision.

Teams won’t care how long a decision takes or what it is so long as it goes their way .

That is the main crux .

Fans not knowing what is going on will be another issue

 

Edited May 16 by Markthehorn

[Bainsey]

Please just get rid. Sucked the life out of the game, players and fans can't properly celebrate goals, decisions still take far too long and countless errors are still being made. Just let the refs get on with it, accept there will still be some errors made but at least then we can then get back to genuinely celebrating goals again.

[downendcity]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

Let's go back to the good old days when nobody questioned the officials' decisions,

That'll be these days? 

I'm not saying that there was never previously player/managers disagreeing with referees and their decisions, but under Fergie's leadership , his teams seemed to make it into an art form and an integral part of the team tactics.

I'm of an age where I can remember where, by and large, referees decisions were respected and erroneous decisions were accepted ( begrudgingly perhaps!) by players and managers. Also back then TV coverage was nothing like today, so the infamous WBA "offside" goal that cost Leeds the title could not be absolutely proved on TV replays, whereas today there would be umpteen different angles, one of which would prove it conclusively.

However, therein lies the irony.

Previously the ref had a split second to see an incident, in real time at full speed and usually from not the best angle, in which to make the decision. As TV technology and coverage improved, the pundits could then dissect an incident and pull slo mo replays from varying angles  that proved the referees mistake. It was this that saw the likes of Lineker increasingly calling for the introduction of technology to avoid these problems. Now we have every bit of technology available to the VAR panel, with replays from every angle, lines on the pitch and the panel, without any pressure from players and with time to study all this evidence before arriving at their decision.

Despite which, they still get it wrong!

It's not just the incorrect decisions made by VAR to annoy fans. It's that a system that was introduced to help referees, now seems to usurp the referees authority and the panel appear to increasingly want to get more involved with the game. Conversely, we had the ludicrous situation where the linesman flagged an offside that cost Liverpool ( I think it was) a late winner. Even though Replays showed it was not offside, VAR couldn't help because the ref stopped the game because of the lino's flag. 

You would think that VAR offside checks would be pretty objective and straightforward, but no. Liverpool were denied at Tottenham by VAR, but reviews of the VAR lines showed it was clearly onside.

As I mentioned, before VAR you could excuse a referee for making a wrong call when he had a split second view of an incident, in real time and from just one angle. For VAR there is no such an excuse, and if it is so marginal that they can't be sure than there is no clear and obvious error and they go with the refs call.

I can't see that they will scrap VAR, but a major overhaul is undoubtedly needed, as I think fans have lost all faith in it. Also and crucially, the same pundits that were calling for it's introduction, are no highly vocal in their criticism of how it's being  applied. That can't be good PR for the EPL and will only fuel fans' dissatisfaction with every VAR cock up.

 

[Street red]

1 hour ago, sephjnr said:

To repeat myself:

Ten seconds to decide if it's worthy of checking, then sixty maximum with the referee straight away. That way they're all looking at it together, not framing it like the ref's being scolded.

Better cameras that are faster and show the movement of the ball-to-foot smoother, if they insist on pinpointing and using the lines.

and as a new suggestion, managers get one challenge per half, if the decision stands they lose a sub.

 

Nope scrap it! The games being ruined by technology when it wasn't needed in the first place.

[Glen hump]

15 hours ago, Robbored said:

In principle VaR is a good addition to the game but in my view it’s over complicated when ruling on a goal. Surely it’s possible to restrict the types of offences and reduce the amount of VaR involvement.

For example - what’s the most common complaint from fans when their team concedes? It’s offside and that relatively straightforward VaR to assess.

What it shouldn’t do highlight a possible handball or other infringement when reviewing a goal - just keep it simple.

As for penalties. Those awarded by the referee should be reviewed and overturned if the ref has made an error but what it shouldn’t do is notify the referee if he’d missed one and tell him to review the incident - it soils the game imv. If he’d missed one then he’s missed one - end of. 

You could say that for all decisions’ blatant foul in the build up ‘ if he’s missed it he’s missed it ‘ makes no sense whatsoever 

[Lrrr]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

The governing body of a nations football can choose to use VAR. VAR is not mandatory across top level football.

The regulatory body that governs the laws of the game are IFAB (includes EUFA/FIFA), and IFAB set the video assistant protocol if VAR is used. 

Swedish league for example rejecting it in a vote

For me at the very most there should be a monitor that the on field ref should be allowed to go over for on his own discretion if he wants to double check something before making a decision. 

[phantom]

It's proven that refs are getting more decisions correct

The average VAR is a very short space of time

The ironic thing, the games Wolves are moaning about none of the onfield decisions were changed so it would have made no difference

Clubs aren't going to vote to get rid of it, just Wolves stirring up for the sake of it

[sephjnr]

26 minutes ago, downendcity said:

It's that a system that was introduced to help referees, now seems to usurp the referees authority and the panel appear to increasingly want to get more involved with the game.

That's the point - they want people to see that it looks like they're being usurped and made to look stupid, and they don't want to improve what 'sacrosanct' control they believe they have. Almost every other sport that has reviews is operating at a smoother, less disruptive rate than VAR is taking and this is deliberate. And the horde on this thread that just want to get rid of it and just want ACTION! EXCITEMENT! SPOTINAIETY! blah will be the first to whine when it's us on the wrong end of the Keith Stroud gang yet-a-friggin-gain.

We really cannot have it both ways because of the EGOS, not the technology. It's the ******* egos.