This Forum

[Southport Red]

Interesting thread and a delight to read some of the replies, helps when the opening post is so well constructed and reasoned and close to so many hearts.

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the relatively large numbers of members who are exiles. We don't get the local media coverage and for many it is their only independent view of what is really happening. The official site is not going to tell us that player X is playing poorly etc. etc.

Talking of independent, and I wouldn't normally comment on the official forum, there is a problem with the rivals site as mentioned by one or two in this thread. A problem which has saddened me immensely. I cannot explain the real reasons on that forum as it is at a delicate stage and obviously Rivals may read same.

As many of you know, I took over form Rob Fernandes as publisher of the bristolcitynet website at the beginning of last season. Rob was keen for someone else to take over the site as his work commitments did not allow him the time to run the site. Towards the end of last season I lapsed into poor health and am only very recently recovering. During this time the site was neglected (can't do a lot from a hospital bed).

Ian - cheshire_red

bristol_ian@hotmail.com

←

Ian sorry to hear you have been unwell, I have been looking out for you at away matches, now I know why I missed you. Hope your posting means that you are feeling better once more.

SR

[Taz]

I've got to be honest, this is the first thread on here that I have read word for word in a very long time. What has been said above is correct - the quality on here has been lacking for a fair few months, and not only has it made some of "the better" posters to disappear completely, a number of the more regular contributors have started to go silent.

I'm a firm believer in the saying if you have nothing interesting to say, then don't say anything at all. Perhaps a few users may want to adapt this mentality, because quite frankly some of the content on here is not only completely irrelevant, but is un-necesary and in some cases abusive.

There were times when I would take a look at the majority of topics posted. I wouldn't necesary read everything within it, but you get a feel for what is being said by reading a few posts here and there. After a few years signed up to this and the previous forum, you pick up on who the better contributors are and generally only look out for what they have to say.

As for the idea about an under 16 forum, which has been suggested before, is a completely stupid idea. Everybody, no matter how old they are, have to start somewhere. There are a number of "newer" forum members that didn't get off to the best starts for whatever reason (where do you sit posts, text talk etc), but they soon learn that these type of posts will get them nowhere. I can name quite a few that have evolved into decent users - a few of whos opinions I value quite a bit. Why should anybody be placed into a them & us group?

Edit: Just had a thought. As a number of people seem to think that the forum is becoming over-moderated, do you think that it is due to people not knowing what they can/can't post about or say? Would a set of guidelines which mentioned all of this help the cause at all?

[bobby]

DaveL a thoroughly enjoyable read and an interesting set of responses. I only joined this forum last December at a time when controversy was high and criticism of the manager was all too common. It was an interesting time to be a supporter of the management team and I posted comments and responses to reply to much of the negativity.

Towards the end of last season I stopped - the critical responses of other forum members and continual slating of the manager and anyone who supported him made it impossible to contribute to the forum.

Once Wilson was sacked and Tins appointed the dust settled and the forum really went from bad to worse, with rumour and speculation about irrelevant details rife (I guess always the same over the summer when there is no football).

Then we went into pre-season and first few games of the season with a bad start and all the negativity and criticism started up again. To be honest I stopped reading the forum so much from about April this year as it was mostly depressing and little has changed since (apart from the odd week here and there).

This is still the most used and probably the best forum for discussion about city and I'm sure most would stick with it. I think the notional rivalry between this site and the subbers site is interesting but irrelevant - many of us will not use that site regularly. It is very male dominated and every other word seems to be a swear word - now that is fine if that is how you want to discuss things and I do read it occasionally, but I would not see myself using it regularly as a replacement for this site (and I know that is not what it was set up for and no offence to anyone on that site, just different views).

So, we persevere and keep up the discussion here. As we get into the season I find myself being drawn back in, as ever!

[Guest Neo]

I, in general, have stopped trying to post imaginative stuff on here because it is too much wasted effort most of the time.

I have posted many threads which have been thought out (and reasonably well structured IMO), only to watch them drop quicker than a hooker with a fifty pound note.

Only recently, I tried again on a Friday evening (when lots were on-line), about video referee's and/or extra assistants. Not mind-blowing stuff I admit, however, a subject that has not been particularly discussed in great length of late and something everybody would have an opinion on. Surely worth more than the couple of responses it got?

What i'm basically saying is I only have the energy these days (due to boredom and a lethargic attitude to this forum) for few word responses at best.

I also now spend a much bigger portion of time on the Subbers site which I find much more entertaining and much more "ME" (as you can rip the p*ss and you know it will be taken in jest. Also, effort in typing something is much more appreciated in that people will take the time to respond).

[Beezey]

[andy g]

Andy, I take it that nothing I or the other posters have said is thought provoking?    If that is so then fair enough........ you maybe don't get me/us?

That in itself is a disappointment, there is plenty to provoke thought and contemplation on this forum and this thread.

Yes, it's true the forum is a bit dull by previous standards..... but if you don't agree then fair enough I don't personally mind.

Yes, members come and go, yes it's not just the kids giving abuse and yes respected forum members will use unecessary put downs, but the point must be that some will find no offence in that & others will.

Finding the balance is what it is all about?

Or have I read the whole thread wrong?

Respect to you Andy and the football team you support!

Bristol City ........ like me and the rest of us ...... apart from the few that have not discovered the delights of BRISTO CITY FC 

←

I think you might have misunderstood.

I didn't say that forum was completely lacking in thought provoking posts - I said that IF you believe it is then its up to YOU (and by that I don't mean you personally !) to put it right by writing something interesting.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought your posts were dull Thats certainly not the case.

[cider head]

So after reading the first post, I promptly checked out the yellow subbers forum.  Now even a day later, all the posts are just about irrelevant talk such as 'where wouldn't you like to live in Bristol' and what have you had for tea'! 

←

but that is what the submarine crew section and were about

complete nonsense and fun......

i never intended this site to even compete with otib

let alone ever to replace it?? that just won't happen, to be honest i

set the sub site up for a laugh amongst like minded lads and lasses who

went on the subbers coach etc, as the otib crew were complaining

about too many posts about the subbers, (there is always someone complaining).

now i still stand by that anyone is welcome on the sub site, subber or not and

in the submarine crew section it should not be taken to seriously, as there is a debate thing if you want to talk about bcfc in the bristol city section, now this is not used so much? why? well were all in this section having a laugh

and quite rightly so and to escape the moaning from other sites

and the big yellow page size post which things could be said in a few lines..

it is still the old bar and lounge culture the sub is the bar and otib is the

lounge but it is how you act when visiting both, a time and place thing

you can feel at ease and swear on the sub (but not essential and the

swearing is tongue and cheek not abusive)

but you feel your walking on

egg shells on otib, a bit like in your work when the company director

visits and you put on a act, but the sub your having a laugh at ground level.

the sub site works because like minded people are on there and i don't just mean being a bristol city fan, but on otib you are getting

a vast across the board section of people who will not see eye to eye

so arguments that lead to abuse will happen now and again.

i do like both forums but this one needs to lighten up a bit,

but i also understand why some will not like the sub site.

[andy g]

And another thing...

I think this forum can disappear up its own backside sometimes,

(All that nonsense about the club doing what the forum says for instance - I'd hope the board of directors were strong-minded enough make its own decisions !)

At the end of the day this is JUST a message board on the internet and sometimes you'll go through phases when the standard of the posts isn't brilliant. But why make such a big fuss about it ?

We seem to spend as much time talking about the forum as we do the football sometimes !

(and yes, I realise that I've now replied to this thread three times already ! )

[Dave L]

At the end of the day this is JUST a message board on the internet and sometimes you'll go through phases when the standard of the posts isn't brilliant.  But why make such a big fuss about it ?

←

True Andy, and you're right that we should keep a sense of perspective about what is esentailly a place for people with too much time on their hands to waste a lot of it on here.

However, I think the recent slump is more than a phase and the number of replies that my original post has recieved, and some of the really interesting points that have been made by a variety of posters show that there is a general (if not universally held) belief that things need to change in some way. What we've seen is not a 'fuss' as you call it, but a really intersting thread about the nature of this forum. Which is kind of nice really, as that's what I hoped would happen.

[edson]

Plus, I still prefer the old website's threading of topics off at tangents, which allowed multiple conversations under the same topic

←

For me, this is the main reason for any reduction in the quality of debate on this forum.

The threaded view has never been properly replaced and its disappearance has, in my opinion, coincided with the downturn in the quality of arguments on here.

I don't think it's anything to do with kids or 'well said, mate' posts. They were always there, but if they weren't part of the argument/debate you were involved in, they pretty much went unnoticed.

On the one hand, people seem to be partly blaming the moderators but, on the other, people are saying that it would be a better forum without certain types of posts, which is surely what the moderators are being blamed for trying to eradicate, in part.

Maybe there's another element too. A lot of us have been on here for far longer than is good for us and we pretty much know where each other are coming from on the main topics affecting the club. So, we (by which I mean forum users) either state our positions again and again each time topics crop up (usually followed by other posters accusing those involved of 'going on and on') or we don't get involved for fear of someone accusing us of 'going on and on'.

Damn, I'm agreeing with redrocks. Oh, perhaps that's another reason.

[Mr Mosquito]

Plus, I still prefer the old website's threading of topics off at tangents, which allowed multiple conversations under the same topic (Red Goblin did well here) and the old ratings which were based on popularity/scores rather than the amount of total Jackson Pollocks you could post.

And what about the passion in the arguments? Seems people just couldn;t hack the stress anymore and decided to sit it out from here. How I long for the halcyon days of people getting ###### off about nothing in particular and for the debates to rage on for days on end about who is being out of order about not much really. It's been ages since I saw a proper trainwreck of a post on here. the last memorable one I can think of was NTTDS's EasyJet classic.

←

Good post redrocks, I too miss ye olde threading of topics that allowed multiple conversations and debates. I agree that this forum has also been ruined by overmoderation where topics are often removed from this main forum to be lost on other lesser forums on this website.

[swindonbcfc]

[Mr Mosquito]

After being banned a few times and having my posts removed to the other forums I now find this forum to be irksome. It would be great if this forum could revert to its threading format of last year and without the big brother censoring software.

A politically incorrect thought for the day: Is Tory Blair Maggie Thatcher in disguise? See my avatar animation

[RedZepperin]

A few random thoughts:

1. Moderation is OK. In moderation.

2. Actually it’s not. It should only be used in extreme circumstances. I recently started a thread about sexism at Ashton Gate, with reference to the Jack Edgar (was that his name?) dismissal. It got merged with a thread about Jack Edgar getting sacked. The moderators obviously missed the point. I really wanted to talk about something else (but I’m not sure what) which, as has already been pointed out, is what used to happen on a lot of threads: you start talking about, say, catering in the Atyeo stand and end up slagging off Red Goblin for his views on Shirley Williams.

3. Not everyone agrees with the previous view. Maybe only a small minority are really interested in veering off on a tangent: a lot want to get to the bottom of that pork pie problem.

4. If you want to know how to run a forum well, talk to Cider Head. No toys thrown out of prams, no “I’ve worked my fingers to the bone for you rabble” prima donna nonsense, just a lot of guilt-free work, a laid back style and enough enthusiasm to keep the thing going without him appearing odd and in need of “a life”.

5. At some point this Forum adopted a software and employed a set of meddlers - I mean moderators - with the best of intentions but which have combined to kill off “debate”.

6. At some point too someone decided that this Forum was a very valuable asset to BCFC and that it was best to protect it from the riff raff. Then Red Goblin and Nev Darkside were treated awfully on here and that proved to me that the people running the Forum at the time had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

7. If the same people are running this Forum now, well, maybe it’s time they took their talent elsewhwere.

[screech]

It's been said on this thread a few times now and I'm just going to agree with it , losing the threaded view where posters could wander completly off topic and argue amongst themselves about nuclear physics and Oliver Cromwell is sorely missed form this new forum, the first sign of controversy or a bit of fun on here now and the topic gets moved or deleted by the modmen, whereas other topics like the infamous ali post that had a squillion replys and was about nothing, remained on the front page for an age.

[Maesknoll Red]

Maybe there's another element too. A lot of us have been on here for far longer than is good for us and we pretty much know where each other are coming from on the main topics affecting the club. So, we (by which I mean forum users) either state our positions again and again each time topics crop up (usually followed by other posters accusing those involved of 'going on and on') or we don't get involved for fear of someone accusing us of 'going on and on'.

←

That strikes a chord, I seem to have a sense of Déjà Vu most days, the same subjects being done to death with very often, little fresh input. The level of debate has definitely dropped, the humour and banter has all but gone, but I do come on here to read about City and feel that it isn't much hardship to talk non-City stuff on the footy-talk or non-footy forums.

The moderation does seem over the top, its fairly obvious that the club will moderate the forum, but I have been surprised at some of the posts removed - inane they may have been, but fairly harmless.

[Dorset_Cider]

No not reading your inbox.

However, there is a pot bellied pig that lives at Crews Hole.  My Mrs said she saw it but I managed to convince her she was going mad.  However, Willsbridge Red who I give a lift to work and to football and some of his mates have seen it.  Loads of people appear to know know about the pig.

It has got so bad now that I drive at snails pace near where the pig (and some goats) lives just to get a glimpse. 

I saw it myself the other week and now my Mrs is demanding an apology which keeps Willsbridge Red entertained.  I am trying to tell her it was actually a pot bellied shetland pony I saw but she is having none of it.

←

In America you'd be done for 'Jay Porking' but in Blighty you might get done for Kerb Crawling.....?

[Mr Mosquito]

A pretty harmless BCFC related topic and one that would have definately been removed earlier in the year. I.e. Tinman's great 5-0 victory over Stockport coming on the same day that Bristol was liberated from Royalist rule - 11th September. Oliver Cromwell played a leading role in the liberation of Bristol from the Royalist snobs on September 11th 1645 and so Cromwell and his fellow English Republicans have my great respect for this reason - a reasonable topic to discuss or too controversial and worthy of deletion?

[edson]

[Dorset_Cider]

I think you might have misunderstood.

I didn't say that forum was completely lacking in thought provoking posts - I said that IF you believe it is then its up to YOU (and by that I don't mean you personally !) to put it right by writing something interesting.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought your posts were dull    Thats certainly not the case.

←

No problem Andy, mine was just a question or two which you have been kind enough to answer.

I suppose we all tend to write in the first person but I always feel the need to put an 'Us' in now and again in recognition of the other forum members.

Anyway thanks again.

By the way do you think it would be better to have mild ModMen messages for all to see at the time of a suspect post being made?

I feel, as a few others seem to have picked up on, that this plus the reason for the moderation (for all to see) makes for a quicker and less suspicious form. People would respond well I believe.

Then if everyone saw the ModMen message we would try to 'Moderate' ourselves a bit more?

Should people continue to be a problem then most of us would probably accept that action should be taken.

At least you might see a return to reasoned argument as to why a ban is being enforced or perhaps shouldn't be?

Do you remember 'RedGoblin' and the infamous 'Shooooot' post?

Many posters who read his posts on a regular basis understood that a figure of speech had been interpreted as a suggested threat or incitement by the forum Guru's and he was banned.

In reality it was nothing more than a bad choice of 'figure of speech' and we had to wait a long time for the 'Great Goblin' to return.

Even 'Edson' is not the man he was without his 'RitchieB'

I know both of them have had it fom all sides because of their strong opinions but most bust up's ended in some form of 'agree to disagree' as posters took sides and added their six penith in?

The thoughts were being provoked then and it got heated but the truth must be that most of us read the threads...... incase one of em drew forum blood

Many more got into the thick of things and there were some amazing lines of thought being drawn through the threads.

All this from a football forum!

Would it be allowed now and are people going to try?

That remains to be seen.

[Mr Mosquito]

Nice to see you after the game on Saturday Edson and on Bristol's Liberation Day

I reckon that the Incider team missed a golden opportunity to have ciderhead in the Incider team but you missed the opportunity and so now he's gaining fame with the yellow submariners instead

[RedZepperin]

I think that's a bit harsh. I assume you're referring to TomF (perhaps you'd care to name individuals rather than imply, so we don't have to guess). As I'm sure ciderhead will be quick to point out, the YSC forum wouldn't be running at all without the help of TomF. I guess he didn't mention the work he put into it and just got on with it in a guilt-free and enthusiastic way, so you may not have realised.

Still, vicious personal insults like these are something I'm glad to have seen less of lately. Thanks for the timely reminder.

←

I was complimenting Cider Head. He’s done a good job. I’ve made a good point.

You’ve made me out to be an undesirable again.

Hi hum. Life goes on.

[Robbored]

Anyone else suprised that we've not an official response from the Modmen on this thread?.

There have been several references to their forum role but as yet nothing in reply from them.

The silence is deafening.

[Dorset_Cider]

Anyone else suprised that we've not an official response from the Modmen on this thread?.

There have been several references to their forum role but as yet nothing in reply from them.

The silence is deafening.

←

Do you really want to see the 'Terms & Conditions' of usage of the forum quoted to us all Robbored?

Or would you be happier with mild moderation, reasons ponted out there and then??

As I said most of us would accept that some form of moderation will be required at times.

[edson]

Nice to see you after the game on Saturday Edson and on Bristol's Liberation Day 

←

I wouldn't miss it for the world, you know that.

I reckon that the Incider team missed a golden opportunity to have ciderhead in the Incider team but you missed the opportunity and so now he's gaining fame with the yellow submariners instead

And then there may not have been a YSC forum. Sounds like you owe me a pint!

[Maesknoll Red]

A pretty harmless BCFC related topic and one that would have definately been removed earlier in the year. I.e. Tinman's great 5-0 victory over Stockport coming on the same day that Bristol was liberated from Royalist rule - 11th September. Oliver Cromwell played a leading role in the liberation of Bristol from the Royalist snobs on September 11th 1645 and so Cromwell and his fellow English Republicans have my great respect for this reason - a reasonable topic to discuss or too controversial and worthy of deletion?

←

"I weren't there, so I don't care, so don't tell I tell ee"

[Mr Mosquito]

I wouldn't miss it for the world, you know that.

And then there may not have been a YSC forum. Sounds like you owe me a pint!

←

Alright Edson, you win, I'll buy you a pint in the Rising Sun after the Huddersfield game on Saturday week.

[Robbored]

Do you really want to see the 'Terms & Conditions' of usage of the forum quoted to us all Robbored? - No

Or would you be happier with mild moderation, reasons ponted out there and then?? - Yes

As I said most of us would accept that some form of moderation will be required at times. - agreed

←

Yes,but some have suggested that the moderation have been a little OTT and I would have expected the mod men to have responded to that

[redrocks]

This is the best thread I have read in ages. While we all seem to be in the mood for a bit of contemplation of our own navels I would also like to ask if RedTop's going AWOL on the forum at the same time as the change in capo of his esteemed organ is merely just a coincidence.

Also, can Tom clarify what the problem with getting the old threaded view is exactly? I think we all agree we lost a huge feature there.

The burning question for me though has to be the following: Shirley Williams or Claire Short - who is the bigger boiler of the two?

[cider head]

I think that's a bit harsh. I assume you're referring to TomF (perhaps you'd care to name individuals rather than imply, so we don't have to guess). As I'm sure ciderhead will be quick to point out, the YSC forum wouldn't be running at all without the help of TomF. I guess he didn't mention the work he put into it and just got on with it in a guilt-free and enthusiastic way, so you may not have realised.

←

i'm flattered by RedZepperin comments but

yeah this is true edson, tomf has to take a fair bit of credit

for a upgrade he did for us on the subbers forum and gave us

a bit of his valuble time to help us out to which we are greatful

for, i'm sure tom has pointed out in posts in the past that he

does not get too much involved with deleting posts unless it is extreme.

we still owe you a pint tom

big thank you thread on the sub to tom...

Jun 30 2004, 01:36 PM

http://subcider.co.uk/sub/index.php?showto...p=550entry550

there is credit due to other moderators on the sub site who keep a eye

on it as well as me so i'm just not the main geezer so to speak..

if the club are concerned we would invite tom as a independent moderator

if he would like to but that is if he has the time..

(sub moddys)

cider gliders

cider head

Eastender

Elvis_Eastend

Malaggro

midland red

old spot

Red goblin

Red_Rat

Stylus

TEDPITMAN

THE YELLOW SUBMARINE CREW

Anyway enough of the sub site,

Let's get back to this site and carry on about what Dave L posted..