arpaul Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Sackable offence ? Personally I would've kept with Wilson for another season. But what I don't understand is why, after sacking Wilson, Tinnion is appointed within minutes rather than advertising the position and looking for someone from outside the club with fresh ideas. The chairman had blamed the forward momentum coming to a halt. The performance against Brighton was awful, but wilson can not be blamed entirely for that. The players must accept responsibility once they cross the line and unfortunately, with the exception of Tom Doherty, no one played with any desire. You need to look at your senior players in these instances for motivating/inspiring the younger ones, but Tinnion as our senior pro was found wanting on both counts.(and in defence of Wilsons decision to leave Lita out all together, in all honesty, he hadn't shown any real quality/goalscoring prowess up to that point-although he did change the course of the game at Brentford, along with Doherty who replaced Tinnion) Brian Tinnion has played under a host of managers in his tenure at Ashton Gate, and as far as my memory can allow, none have seen fit to make him club or team captain apart from the odd game. Could this be due to his lack of leadership qualities ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 ... what I don't understand is why, after sacking Wilson, Tinnion is appointed within minutes rather than advertising the position and looking for someone from outside the club with fresh ideas. "Succession planning" - commonplace in many large companies, why go to all the expense associated with recruitment when there's a perfectly able, qualified internal candidate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arpaul Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 "Succession planning" - commonplace in many large companies, why go to all the expense associated with recruitment when there's a perfectly able, qualified internal candidate? ← Did I not see an advertisement in the Evening Post 'job section' during the summer months for Hargreaves Lansdown. Cant remember the exact position but they were looking for someone with past experience and a leader in their field? "succession planning"- Why not promote the proverbial 'yes man' or the tea boy?. As to the expense associated with advertising/recruitment, An advert in the national press isn't exactly huge expenditure for someone with Steve Lansdowns ambition. Perfectly able,qualified internal candidate: Shaun Taylor was reserve team manager, 1st team coach, and a leader of men who would shed blood for the cause. -Why wasn't he interviewed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 As to the expense associated with advertising/recruitment, An advert in the national press isn't exactly huge expenditure for someone with Steve Lansdowns ambition. If you think that recruitment costs for anybody amount to just putting an ad in the paper you have a lot yet to learn! - never mind that new footy managers from within the LMA brotherhood invariably see fit to bring their own side-kicks and pet players with them. Perfectly able,qualified internal candidate: Shaun Taylor was reserve team manager, 1st team coach, and a leader of men who would shed blood for the cause. -Why wasn't he interviewed ? ← There's the SteveL forum or shareholders' AGM for questions like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 I was a guest of the chairman's at the Blackpool game, as a result of winning the Prediction League. As anyone in that position is to be totally believed, can I just say that Danny Wilson was sacked for prancing around the Ashton Gate car park at night, dressed only in women's underwear and stilettos, whilst singing "She'll Be Coming Round The Mountain" in a falsetto voice. Obviously the decision was delayed so as not to cause disruption before our play-off participation. It's all true. I was a guest of the chairman's and I'm telling you, so it must be. ← Some of us have good memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Some of us have good memories ← Only surpassed by your imaginations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Some of us have good memories Only surpassed by your imaginations. ← ... game on! :sport19: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Only surpassed by your imaginations. ← Yep,some of us have such a vivid imagination & some of us like arpaul, have memories that an elephant would be proud of! All I would say is that 2 & 2 certainly added up to 4 in the anti - DW campaign. All very dodgy, but history?? But many very interesting lesson's learn't about many aspects within BCFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 RedTop - You're referring to Steve L sacking Brian Jones (a good friend of Wilson's) without consulting DW? Unsuprisingly Wilson didn't like this and him and Steve L locked horns on the phone. Then Steve L called an emergency board meeting and decided to sack DW and appoint Tinnion within 10 hours. Blessing in disguise or not I feel that the actions of our chairman still needs to explained further. I'm just relaying events exactly how they were reported in the press and of what Steve L said at the time. ← I think this is more like it Phats. Getting over the loss at Cardiff was bad enough, but taking the events after made the enthusiasum lack for longer. Just beginning now to feel a little passion again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Orj Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Just thought I'd pop in to say 'Hi' and complete the full house. Ciao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Just beginning now to feel a little passion again. ← ... and who do we have to thank for this small mercy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTop Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 RedTop - You're referring to Steve L sacking Brian Jones (a good friend of Wilson's) without consulting DW? Unsuprisingly Wilson didn't like this and him and Steve L locked horns on the phone. Then Steve L called an emergency board meeting and decided to sack DW and appoint Tinnion within 10 hours. Blessing in disguise or not I feel that the actions of our chairman still needs to explained further. I'm just relaying events exactly how they were reported in the press and of what Steve L said at the time. ← Yes, that's what I was referring to. It was a mistake to say playing staff, when actually it was backroom staff being cleared out. It seems Wilson was unwilling or unable to face the outcome of his own failure. As sad as I was to lose Buster, in particular, I guess reducing backroom staff has helped enable us to buy in new talent on the field, which is ultimately where the money should go. There would have been no point giving more money to Wilson to spend, as until then he'd shown (in my opinion) an average ability in the market at best. Regardless, he hadn't done what was necessary to get us up and in my mind that was the test. He was a manager who was given time to build a team and get promotion and he couldn't do it, so he had to make way for someone else to have a go. I take the point about more money being made available when Tinman took charge, but a chairman always wants to give a new boss a few quid to make his mark on the team and as I say, what's was the point of giving it to Wilson to spend? Brooker is looking like a good signing and I'm personally amazed Heffernan isn't a starter - though where do you put him with Lita justifying selection 100 per cent? Dinning looks a good loan signing far better than most, but not all, of those Wilson brought in. The annual results still disturb me because the losses are still too high, but with SteveL in charge I trust the board to (1) bring losses down further and (2) plug the gap in the meantime. Anyway, I recall Steve was pretty open about why he made his decision at the time. It would have been much simpler, if less honest, just to say he was being sacked because he hadn't done what he was there to do - get us up. The only thing that confused me was the announcement the job was open for applications, followed by the sudden appointment of Tins. I'd always thought Tins would be the next manager, but it did seem a strange way of doing it. Whatever the reasons, and clearly SteveL's weren't the same ones I believed DW deserved to go, the result is the same. Danny out and Tins in. And to this day I still believe it was what needed to be done. It's all in the past now and we're looking like we're getting into our stride again. If we can keep Dinning we'll look pretty good for an auto spot. One more defender and we'll have an awesome squad. It's great to see Scott doing what we know he can do. And as I've said before, I wnder what DW must think when he looks at the results in the paper and sees Lita's name among the goals practically every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 ... and who do we have to thank for this small mercy? ← My love for BCFC. As we have to keep reminding ourselves,we the supporters will be here longer than any Manager, Chairman & Players. Success is what we crave & while I still don't think we will are the finished article, we are beginning to improve in what is a p1$$ poor league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Just thought I'd pop in to say 'Hi' and complete the full house. Ciao. ← 'full house' ? Are you trying to say something? What full house is that? Is there some kind of bingo game going on here or are you just making up the numbers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon Hater Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 There was a point last season where I was sick of going to watch my beloved team. Why? Bceuase of the ******** that was in charge, a arrogant bloke who leaned against a dugout showing absolutley no passion, interest or happiness however the game was going. I'll never ever forget watching City get hammered at Blackpool 5-1 and Wilson not moving a inch through the first half. Lita saving us to a humilating boxing day defeat at Btentford with two goals, but was continually kept on the bench and didn't get brought on when drawing 0-0 at home to Stockport the following, with the whole of the Gate chanting his name, mind you he started at home to Brentford later on in the season, oh and guess what? He scored in a 1-0 win but he wasn't to be see many more times. Sticking with things that everyone could blaently see wasn't working, Wilkshire playing on the right, Burnell/Doherty, the list was absolutley endless, he would eventually change it, but it would be a month too bloody late. He was given more than enough funds to get City promoted. His signings were very dissapointing, I honestly think he didn't watch half the signings he made proior to signing them. Fagan was awful, I personally see Goodfellow as a left winger, and Danny had signed him to replace Wilkshire who was brought in to play on the right instead of Murray was wasn't a right winger. The reason we didn't get a penalty last season in the league was not because of bad referring or bad luck, I seriously can't really remember a signle penalty claim, it was because we lacked ambition and hardly played in the box, no coinsidence that we've already won 3 penalties this season and had many an appeal. Tinnion is a breath of fresh air, no more speaking crap on the Radio at how we have to give respect and praise to Leyton Orient for their 1-0 FA Cup win at the Gate and basically lying and repeating the same thing week after week, Tins says what he sees, and his rant after the Vale game has definently spraked the season alight. Tinnion makes changes when they are needed, not hold on as it makes him look bad, like Wilson. Tins made changes at half time at B'mouth, Chesterfield etc. and they all changed the games and saved a decent away point. Although it's all in the past it's just boring to see some posters continually slag off Tinnion and wish Wilson was here, Arpaul continually posts the same old stuff, and I start to wonder does he want Tins to be a success and admit he's wrong when City clinch promotion at Hillsbrough in May? I haven't seen him post recently after the decent results and performances put it that way, unless it's about ole' Danny. Let's move on now and get behind Tins, a bloke that REALLY wants to get City up there, and dosen't go on holiday a week before the start of a league season, missing all the pre season friendlies, unlike someone... Up the City! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Interesting...... there seem to be some tetchy replies for this subject from some members...... and no I'm not going to explain or elaborate. ← Yep, back to the old days really, same names, same style & never a dull moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
openEnd Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 I honestly think he didn't watch half the signings he made proior to signing them.← Not forgetting Harpal Singh, who played one game, looked fairly lively. Then Wilson in his wisdom played him out of position in the next. Singh didn't even stick around to complete his month on loan. Also rumours that he (DW) was unaware that Darren Caskey had a weight problem. Comical if it wasn't so indicitive of the mans incompetence. Great post Swindon Hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Success is what we crave & while I still don't think we will are the finished article, we are beginning to improve in what is a p1$$ poor league. ← With that very last comment you hit on something that I think is half our beloved BCFC's problem. I may be in a minority of one on this from what I have been reading ever since we've been back at this level. However, I really don't believe this league is "pish poor"; for sure there are some poor teams in it we saw one on Saturday, neither are Stockport in a false position; equally, we need to get the hell out of here asap but let's have a better recognition of what we're up against. The fact is there are a number of well-organised, professional outfits in League One who are quite capable of upsetting us whenever we slip from high standards (which happens too often). The belief among supporters that we are somehow slumming it in a pish poor league is insidious, and can be reflected in what happens out on the pitch - two examples: 1) home to Huddersfield just after we'd stretched Everton to the limit was an alarmingly complacent performance especially after we'd taken the lead, then the excuses came out about "feeling leggy" 2) home to Colchester, the quotes leading up to the match expressed the belief that it was they who would be leggy because they'd just gone two hours with Saints - but were they? Answer no. In each case, the attitudes that shaped those poor performances were born of the conceit that we only had to turn up and the "lesser" opposition would roll over. How many more times does the point need to be drummed in - to supporters every bit as much as players - that winning promotion requires 46x90 minutes of concentrated effort including being respectful of opposition threats? As the editorial in OTIB 112 said - "... why don't we play like that (vs Everton) every Saturday ...?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 The original post asks "Would Wilson have stayed"? If we had gone up, of course he would. However, if Wilson had stayed, would he have signed the players Tinnion has? Think back to the final league match v B'pool. Those of us in the East End chanted various players names and got them to wave back. When Wilson's name was chanted he looked up and waved, but no smile just a twinge of sadness. Was he reflecting on what might have been, or did he know he would be sacked if we didn't go up? As for the power of this forum; 1. Last season we called for the reopening of the East End and got it. 2. Forum members called for Scott Murray to be re-signed and he was. 3. There were calls on this forum for Wilson to be sacked and he was. 4. Posts appeared stating the Tinnion should become manager and that happened. Finally, I don't rue that post at Swindon denying us auto promo, after all the woodwork also saved us from a home defeat by Posh. Instead how about Wrexham and B'muff away? Two goal less draws in which we failed to make a single worthwhile shot on target. That was where we lost it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 I don't believe this division is any poorer than it has been over the past 10 years,there is no gulf between this division and the Championship,that second tier is poorer than it has been at the moment and if we can get into there anythings possible(seriously).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jamesonjoe Posted November 8, 2004 Report Share Posted November 8, 2004 Did`nt Brian Tinnion go off and get married during the close season !!! Bloody cheek of the man should be saving all his strenght for city..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TinmansCulturedLeftPeg Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Did`nt Brian Tinnion go off and get married during the close season !!! Bloody cheek of the man should be saving all his strenght for city..... ← He should of had the wedding at Ashton Gate to prove that he cares about us more than his own family.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richieb Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 With that very last comment you hit on something that I think is half our beloved BCFC's problem. I may be in a minority of one on this from what I have been reading ever since we've been back at this level. However, I really don't believe this league is "pish poor"; for sure there are some poor teams in it we saw one on Saturday, neither are Stockport in a false position; equally, we need to get the hell out of here asap but let's have a better recognition of what we're up against. The fact is there are a number of well-organised, professional outfits in League One who are quite capable of upsetting us whenever we slip from high standards (which happens too often). The belief among supporters that we are somehow slumming it in a pish poor league is insidious, and can be reflected in what happens out on the pitch - two examples: 1) home to Huddersfield just after we'd stretched Everton to the limit was an alarmingly complacent performance especially after we'd taken the lead, then the excuses came out about "feeling leggy" 2) home to Colchester, the quotes leading up to the match expressed the belief that it was they who would be leggy because they'd just gone two hours with Saints - but were they? Answer no. In each case, the attitudes that shaped those poor performances were born of the conceit that we only had to turn up and the "lesser" opposition would roll over. How many more times does the point need to be drummed in - to supporters every bit as much as players - that winning promotion requires 46x90 minutes of concentrated effort including being respectful of opposition threats? As the editorial in OTIB 112 said - "... why don't we play like that (vs Everton) every Saturday ...?" ← Mick,excellent thoughts & you are spot on. Luton were (and again) are flying,but they apparently looked pish poor when the lost a few on the trot. Consistancy is key - but on our day we should out perform any of the teams in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Darko Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 My thoughts - Danny deserved to go, because: he claimed for two years that leroy wasn't ready to play full matches, never gave him a run in the side and left him out of our most important game for many years. he had been given 4 years - twice the amount of time given to other managers at this level (most of whom have less resources, but similar expectations) The performances last year - football is supposed to be entertaining, all but about 5 games last year were not. i remember sitting there almost falling asleep during the wednesday game last october almost wanting us to lose, as i felt the board would be forced to change things. even on the amazing winning run, games were never really exciting. major collapses - in his second season, we were top of the league at xmas,finished 7th. 3rd season, top of the league in Jan, finished 3rd. 4th season, top of the league after winning eleven games in a row, finished 3rd. that to me shows an inability to take a team beyond that final hurdle. he had been given lots of money - only wigan and cardiff spent more, rotherham, crewe, qpr, plymouth, brighton and otehrs all spent virtually nothing defeat is not a failure - it is when it costs you over a million quid, a promotion, players their jobs, backroom staff their jobs... oh and you, your job. lack of opportunities for younger players - this season we have seen about 6 youth team players (most of whom most of us had never heard of) given a chance in the first team. this is important as it reveals who's ready or not, and gives hope to all those outside of the first team that they have a good chance in progressing to that level. i'm pretty sure that if tins had been manager when liam rosenior was here, he would have seen a lot more of the first team, and might still have been here because of it. the press conferences - after every poor performance, whether it be loss or draw (or last season, win) he always came up with the same excuses and seemed to be watching a different game to everyone else. the defeat against brighton - we knew they would play as they did, so why did we play as we did? why no striker on the bench? I think after this performance it would've been very hard for danny to stay beyond the end of august anyway, as every poor performance/defeat would've just brought more calls for him to go. The initial question about whether he would have been there if we would have got promoted - yes he would, but we may have found ourselves in a ward/benny situation again. basically a lot of people, including myself were less than impressed with the way we played last season - very dull defensive football. many of you will know that even the brighton fans are starting to turn on mark mcghee, and they were never expected to get promoted, so what it would've been like for danny if we would have started off badly, i don't know. Why i'm confident Tinman is the right choice: He is willing to experiment, and admit when he's wrong - during the preseason everyone was all for a new formation (generally cos last year was predominently very dull to watch), of course we all now know that this was a mistake - but like a good people he learned from his mistakes and changed things He is not afraid of telling the truth - i remember listening to the interview after the port vale game, when half the fans thought he had lost it. this may well however be the moment that transformed the season. entertaining football and goals - he made three promises when appointed these, were two of them (the other about giving the younger players a chance). mainly drawn on the fact that we seldom did either last year, in fact i can only remember 4 occasions when we scored more than 2 in the league. we've already done this 5 times this term, and the games (since after portvale) have on the whole been very entertaining goal filled affairs. He gives players a chance - leroy, fortune, anyinsah, cotterill, harley, brown, + more he has the clubs best interests at heart - and so really does care whether we win, play well or not and seems to what every player to have the same attitude as him, and slowly but surely this approach does seem to be rubbing off on the others. He knows the players - many people were looking a getting a manager in from outside, however that would've been like starting from square one, whereas tins pretty much knew everyones strengths and weaknesses from the start. has already made some excellent signings - heff, brooker, smith, dinning, orr none of these players have looked out of place at all, and in the case of brooker, tinman's presistence in trying to sign him looks like it's really paid off. he has the support of the vast majority - this is the one thing danny would never have had, many felt angry about the playoff final and held him responsible, with tins, there is pressure but no where near as much. as a club legend, people are prepared to give him time (once he got through the torrid opening period) and appear to hope that he more than any other manager of recent times is successful finally i know we got off to a poor start - i put this down to two things, changing too much too soon, a sign of inexperience which tins quickly learned from. and player attitude towards the manager - throughout the first five games and just occasionally now, there are rumours of player discontent towards the manager, or to the appointment of the manager. now although this was problem with the players involved, and a lack of experience with the manager things seem to have improved on this front even to the point where a certain midfielder appears to have got his spark back... but of course results on the pitch as we all know determines dressing room atmosphere anyway. 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Jimmy Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 Would you care to elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave L Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 My thoughts - Danny deserved to go, because: SNIP What a superb post. I find myself agreeing with everything you say. It would have been very difficult to have sacked Danny on the back of promotion, but his job would have been made very diffcicult this season, as over the years he had built up a growing number of fans who didn't like his style of management for all the reasons you outline. My guess is that had we got promoted he would have started this season in charge, but the knives would have been out very quickly if we'd started poorly. In fact, if he'd made the start Tins did, he may well have got the sack after 5 games! Which is not to say Tinnion should have gone at the same point - he deserved the chance to show what he could do, and thankfully, that's exactly what he's doing. But Danny Wilson had been drinking in the last chance saloon for too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 But Danny Wilson had been drinking in the last chance saloon for too long. ← Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedTop Posted November 9, 2004 Report Share Posted November 9, 2004 My thoughts - Danny deserved to go, because:← Spot on. Whatever the official reason Danny Wilson went, judging from this forum the vast majority of people feel it was appropriate that he did, and I think we're better off now with Tins at the helm. If Danny had still been in charge, we would have been stuck in the past this season. Every bad decision, every defeat, every poor substitution, we would have harked back to last year, Brighton etc. That would not be good for morale In order to succeed, the last thing this club needed was anything that would make us dwell on Brighton. We needed a clean break for this season. With Danny here, that result and the failings that went with it would still have haunted the club. With him gone and Tins in charge, it's a new era and we're looking ahead (with the obvious exception of this thread!!!) Bottom line is Danny was in charge, and deserved to be held accountable. Accountability comes with the big bucks he was paid. He was happy to take one and so he must accept the other, and for all I know he was. He was given a fair crack of the whip and ultimately did not meet the target set for him - one attained by managers on less wonga with smaller resources in shorter periods of time. Tinman has made mistakes, and we can all name them, but to his credit he has admitted them, learned from them and adapted quickly. It's refreshing to see a different approach, and he seems better in the transfer market than Danny. Whether he will succeed this season or not still remains to be seen. But watching Murray fly down the wing like he used to, Lita putting the ball away with alarming regularity and some of the defence-splitting passing from midfield, I think we're going down a promising route, and one which beats the same old same old. One thing every fan wants is to know that his manager hurts and smarts as much as he does when the team play badly or lose. There can't be a fan in the ground who doubts Tinman's devotion to the club. He may make mistakes, he may not succeed (and will have to pay the price like any manager if that happens) but no-one could ever say he lacks passion and commitment. I'm a great believer that without those attributes you are fighting an uphill battle to succeed in any area of life. That gives me hope for the Tinnion reign, and I'm enjoying this season far more than I thought I would after the defeat in Cardiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedUn Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 If Danny had still been in charge, we would have been stuck in the past this season. Every bad decision, every defeat, every poor substitution, we would have harked back to last year, Brighton etc. That would not be good for morale ... moreover, whichever league we were in, DW's plan for this season presumably included rewarding the oafish amateur he had "leading the line" last season with a contract far in excess of his worth. I suppose I would have had to stomach it if we had gone up but the thought of watching another season of Limpy Cockup in third grade football had me thinking of taking up golf. Glory be we now have the real thing in Steve Brooker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest uncle john Posted November 10, 2004 Report Share Posted November 10, 2004 Go Swindon Hater!!! You've just reminded me perfectly why I'm enjoying this season so much compared to last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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