John Tyndall Leader Of The Bnp Found Dead

[solo1bc]

I am deeply shocked that no-one, especially Ben or Malone has yet mentioned Bonnie Langford or Christopher Biggins. These cretins have inflicted more damage than any politician or terrorist.

As for Eamonn Holmes...

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Quite right Dr Eff... Glaring omissions!

I got hung up on the Paris Vs Tim issue though!

[Guest DrFaustus]

Quite right Dr Eff...  Glaring omissions!

I got hung up on the Paris Vs Tim issue though!

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An understandable diversion sir.

Julian Clary, Neil Warnock and Chris Evans next.

[solo1bc]

An understandable diversion sir.

Julian Clary, Neil Warnock and Chris Evans next.

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Chris Evans is already toast doc! No one's mentioned Hollowhead or Pulis yet?

Jordan (Katy Price) is a good shout... The Chavette Champion!

*although I CAN think of two reasons to hold off on that one!*

[Dollymarie]

Nobody wants to get rid of me then? Phew! I was waiting for the usual abuse from Dr F.

Dollymarie

[Guest DrFaustus]

Nobody wants to get rid of me then?  Phew! I was waiting for the usual abuse from Dr F.

Dollymarie

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It's not abuse young Dolly. I save the abuse for anyone who touches my goats.

Ben, Jordan is a vacuous tart but she keeps people amused I suppose. How about Joan Collins and anyone else with a mid-Atlantic abortion of an accent?

[Guest C.T.I.D]

Nobody wants to get rid of me then?  Phew! I was waiting for the usual abuse from Dr F.

Dollymarie

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zap the Dr...... the smell of frazzled gashead and fried ginger hair,would be better than his normal odour

[Dollymarie]

Jordan is a vacuous tart

Hang on, I was one of them not so long ago!

Dollymarie

[Guest DrFaustus]

zap the Dr...... the smell of frazzled gashead and fried ginger hair,would be better than his normal odour

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This myth of ginger hair needs to stop now! What hair I have is grey. The odour is natural Gas, boom boom.

[Mr Mosquito]

Are you referring to the late, great Enoch Powell, the orator, intellectual and xenophobic cvnt famous for his "rivers of blood" speech? Or is this someone else of the same name?

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Yes redrocks, remember that Edward Heath dismissed Enoch Powell from the Tories for daring to oppose Heath's EEC membership ideology as well as for putting his viewpoint about Britain's post-war immigration policy. Enoch Powell also told the Tory membership to vote Labour for a referendum on European membership. Whatever you think of Powell, Benn, Bevan and Churchill they stuck by their ideology - whatever - unlike politically correct politicians of today.

[Guest DrFaustus]

Whatever you think of Powell, Benn, Bevan and Churchill they stuck by their ideology - whatever - unlike politically correct politicians of today.

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Gobbo, Churchill changed sides more often than Malone changes his socks.

Denis Skinner has principles you know.

[annanimo]

Yes redrocks, remember that Edward Heath dismissed Enoch Powell from the Tories for daring to oppose Heath's EEC membership ideology as well as for putting his viewpoint about Britain's post-war immigration policy. Enoch Powell also told the Tory membership to vote Labour for a referendum on European membership. Whatever you think of Powell, Benn, Bevan and Churchill they stuck by their ideology - whatever - unlike politically correct politicians of today.

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Churchill famously walked across the house twice. To say he is consistent is a bit like calling Hitler pleasant. He was consistent in as much as he was an old colonialist and that during war he persistently encouraged and motivated. But he wasn't a man of principle, and would often be flexible when political expediency demanded. Some people might call that strength, but let's not have this hogwash about him being idologically driven. He was an opportunist.

Powell - in 1954 as Minister for Health travelled to the West Indies to encourage West Indians to apply to live and work in the "mother country". Actively promoted a multi-cultural Britain. Changed his mind a bit when the reality turned out different from his ideal. Strangely however never admitted his own role in creating what he saw as "a coffee-coloured nation".

Benn and Bevan I will agree with you were ideologists and both essentially compromised their careers for their principles. I happen to admire them for this but others would suggest that unwavering stubbornness is a weakness and not a strength.

Anyway, it is simply not true to suggets that politicians of today are PC and wishy-washy while yesterday's were principled and ideological. There is a certain amount of truth in it, of course, and I am concerned as anyone about what British politics is becoming. But there are still MPs with real principles, like Denis Skinner (Lab), Gwyneth Dunwoody (Lab), Lembit Opik (LD), Simon Hughes (LD), Tim Loughton (Con) even if they're not front-benchers (and I don't agree with some of them!). Not to mention George Galloway!!!

Likewise, in times past there were politicians who represented no cause other than their own or were not exactly principled. Even in the relatively modern era, there have been giants like Ramsay MacDonald, Harold MacMillan, Anthony Eden who have all been forced to compromise their stance on certain issues.

[Mr Mosquito]

Churchill famously walked across the house twice.  To say he is consistent is a bit like calling Hitler pleasant.  He was consistent in as much as he was an old colonialist and that during war he persistently encouraged and motivated.  But he wasn't a man of principle, and would often be flexible when political expediency demanded.  Some people might call that strength, but let's not have this hogwash about him being idologically driven.  He was an opportunist.

Powell - in 1954 as Minister for Health travelled to the West Indies to encourage West Indians to apply to live and work in the "mother country".  Actively promoted a multi-cultural Britain.  Changed his mind a bit when the reality turned out different from his ideal.  Strangely however never admitted his own role in creating what he saw as "a coffee-coloured nation".

Benn and Bevan I will agree with you were ideologists and both essentially compromised their careers for their principles.  I happen to admire them for this but others would suggest that unwavering stubbornness is a weakness and not a strength.

Anyway, it is simply not true to suggets that politicians of today are PC and wishy-washy while yesterday's were principled and ideological.  There is a certain amount of truth in it, of course, and I am concerned as anyone about what British politics is becoming.  But there are still MPs with real principles, like Denis Skinner (Lab), Gwyneth Dunwoody (Lab), Lembit Opik (LD), Simon Hughes (LD), Tim Loughton (Con) even if they're not front-benchers (and I don't agree with some of them!).  Not to mention George Galloway!!!

Likewise, in times past there were politicians who represented no cause other than their own or were not exactly principled.  Even in the relatively modern era, there have been giants like Ramsay MacDonald, Harold MacMillan, Anthony Eden who have all been forced to compromise their stance on certain issues.

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Sir, that was an awesome reply

Cometh the hour cometh the man and Churchill was that man in the early 1940's even if he'd gone from being a Liberal to a Tory. Churchill was right to alert this country and to inspire it to fight the cruelty of Hitler's 'mechanised barbarians'. I'm not sure that Churchill ditched any principals as the Tory and Liberal parties are, essentially, one and the same on many issues even today. Enoch Powell was right to warn of the dangers of EEC entry as were Benn, Foot and many others that would be considered mavericks. With regard to Enoch Powell going to the West Indies, this country was desperate for manpower after the massive loss of life in WWII and Enoch was wrong to wag his finger at them for this country's post war problems. However, I'll be going the other way and retiring in the West Indies if I get my way

Perhaps the greatest MP Bristol has ever had was Tony Benn. A marvellous man who often put the work needs of his constituents before his ideology e.g. supporting Rolls Royce Bristol's efforts to stave off closure to keep jobs for his constituents even when that company was engaged in making war machines that I know Tony Benn felt uneasy about.

May I suggest you buy the double CD 'Great Political Speeches' by Hodder Headline Audiobooks 1996. It's got an excerpt of Aneurin Bevan's address to a crowd at Trafalgar Square in 1956. It concerns the Suez crisis and could easily be about the Iraq crisis today - awesome !!!!

[Guest MaloneFM]

This myth of ginger hair needs to stop now! What hair I have is grey. The odour is natural Gas, boom boom.

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DING..the sound of a raw nerve being plucked herr Doktor? Or a 'strawberry blonde one' as you so wittily say before falling flat on your red puffy face.

Anyway you are off limits for this one. So is your ginger 7th wife Dolly. And luckily moi.

So are your goats.

[Guest MaloneFM]

Denis Skinner has principles you know.

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I also agree with the beast of Bolsover comment as well. I fancy a thunderbolt flying into the past and whacking Gordon Owen against Swindle when he said 'penalty? I'LL TAKE IT BOSS.....BOOM!

No Gordon I fancy you won't.

Now where shall we put that retained Freight Rover trophy that Mansfield didn't win?

[Dollymarie]

Anyway you are off limits for this one. So is your ginger 7th wife Dolly.

I aint effin' ginger!

Dollymarie

[Guest MaloneFM]

I aint effin' ginger!

Dollymarie

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DING!

What is it with you copperheads and denial? Finished off the book yet? I'm waiting for the film. Which I won't be arsed to see.

BOOM! J K (richknickers from Yate) Rowling

[Dollymarie]

Havent started it yet, am planning to tonight!

Dollymarie

[Rocky]

June Sarpong.

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What a shout. She can ##c*ing have a thunderbolt right in her eyeball

[Mr Mosquito]

I also agree with the beast of Bolsover comment as well. I fancy a thunderbolt flying into the past and whacking Gordon Owen against Swindle when he said 'penalty? I'LL TAKE IT BOSS.....BOOM!

No Gordon I fancy you won't.

Now where shall we put that retained Freight Rover trophy that Mansfield didn't win?

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Dennis Skinner - the beast of Bolsover - always amuses me when he muddles the words of the oath of allegiance to the British Government's imposter Queen. Why should Republican Englishmen be forced to swear an oath of allegiance to the 'crown'?

[Guest MaloneFM]

Dennis Skinner - the beast of Bolsover - always amuses me when he muddles the words of the oath of allegiance to the British Government's imposter Queen. Why should Republican Englishmen be forced to swear an oath of allegiance to the 'crown'? 

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Yeah well lah de dah and all that!

Cromwell leave them catholics alone-BOOM!

[annanimo]

Sir, that was an awesome reply

Thank you!

Cometh the hour cometh the man and Churchill was that man in the early 1940's even if he'd gone from being a Liberal to a Tory. Churchill was right to alert this country and to inspire it to fight the cruelty of Hitler's 'mechanised barbarians'. I'm not sure that Churchill ditched any principals as the Tory and Liberal parties are, essentially, one and the same on many issues even today.

Yes, he was a great war leader.  He was not, and never was, a man of principle.  He was a political opportunist, and wouldn't even have been PM if he hadn't outmanoevered Halifax for the top job.  He was actually a failed politician prior to the war, who had made serious errors of judgement as chancellor and whose odds of even returning to the cabinet in 1938 must have been astronomical.  Fortunately for him, we only remember his achievements from 1940 onwards.  The point I make is that men of principle may not always make good politicians, and that great leaders don't have to be ideologically consistent.

Enoch Powell was right to warn of the dangers of EEC entry as were Benn, Foot and many others that would be considered mavericks. With regard to Enoch Powell going to the West Indies, this country was desperate for manpower after the massive loss of life in WWII and Enoch was wrong to wag his finger at them for this country's post war problems.  However, I'll be going the other way and retiring in the West Indies if I get my way

I understand Powell's motives for travelling to the West Indies.  I am not as scathingly critical of Powell as many others are.  I do not believe he was inherently "racist" but accept that his speeches were ill-considered and contributed to racist sentiment.  He was responsible for creating a race relations problem and sadly never accepted any responsibility for this.  I have always considered it an anomaly that someone so evidently intellectually capable was unable to recognise the ramification of his words and actions.

Powell was consistent on the issue of Europe but I wouldn't say that this consistency was evident in other areas of his political life, e.g. health and immigration.  His stance in 1954 was entirely different to that in 1968 or later in 1972 (Kenyan Asian Crisis)

Perhaps the greatest MP Bristol has ever had was Tony Benn. A marvellous man who often put the work needs of his constituents before his ideology e.g. supporting Rolls Royce Bristol's efforts to stave off closure to keep jobs for his constituents even when that company was engaged in making war machines that I know Tony Benn felt uneasy about.

Absolutely!  He was what you want your local MP to be - proactive.  He was always very visible and always there when people needed him.  You didn't have to share his political perceptions to know he worked hard for his constituents.

May I suggest you buy the double CD 'Great Political Speeches' by Hodder Headline Audiobooks 1996. It's got an excerpt of Aneurin Bevan's address to a crowd at Trafalgar Square in 1956. It concerns the Suez crisis and could easily be about the Iraq crisis today - awesome !!!!

Thanks for your recommendation!  Will track down a copy!!!

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[Mr Mosquito]

annanimo, you'll enjoy that double CD if you track it down - excuse the pun

There's also an excerpt of the Rev Ian Paisley's address in the Martyrs Memorial Free Presbyterian Curch, Belfast 1985 where he accuses Margaret Thatcher of being the devil's disciple - classic stuff

The double CD was compiled and produced by Peter Hill

ISBN 1-85998-585-8

.....hope that info gives you further help in finding it.

[Mr Mosquito]

Yeah well lah de dah and all that!

Cromwell leave them catholics alone-BOOM!

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Oliver Cromwell was actually England's last legitimate head of state as an independent MP and leader of the victorious English Republican Army. Cromwell warned the English people not to trust the Scots !!!!! And who is leading us now? - none other than the Scottish born Tory Blair together with a Scottish Chancellor - Gordon Brown !!!! No wonder this country is falling into chaos. We were warned

[Guest MaloneFM]

The jocks are in charge and we're DOOMED!

James Doohan-Mr Scott from the Enterprise-BOO... oh has he?

Too late then.

[annanimo]

annanimo, you'll enjoy that double CD if you track it down - excuse the pun 

There's also an excerpt of the Rev Ian Paisley's address in the Martyrs Memorial Free Presbyterian Curch, Belfast 1985 where he accuses Margaret Thatcher of being the devil's disciple    - classic stuff 

The double CD was compiled and produced by Peter Hill

ISBN 1-85998-585-8

.....hope that info gives you further help in finding it.

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Briiliant! Thanks very much.

Also, very sorry to be pedantic, but I am not sure if Oliver Cromwell is in fact "England's last legitimate head of state as an independent MP" - I believe that honour goes to Richard Cromwell for his brief premiership (1558-9).

I don't know about not trusting Scots, but I wouldn't trust New Labour!

[Guest MaloneFM]

It took Paisley THAT long to work it out?

[robins72]

This myth of ginger hair needs to stop now! What hair I have is grey. The odour is natural Gas, boom boom.

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Too many years of watching that dribble doc.

[Guest MaloneFM]

Too many years of watching that dribble doc.

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Isn't the word...drivel?

I have been today pendantic policeman-goodbye.

[Mr Mosquito]

Briiliant!  Thanks very much.

Also, very sorry to be pedantic, but I am not sure if Oliver Cromwell is in fact "England's last legitimate head of state as an independent MP" - I believe that honour goes to Richard Cromwell for his brief premiership (1558-9).

I don't know about not trusting Scots, but I wouldn't trust New Labour!

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Oliver Cromwell was wrong to dictate for his son Richard to inherit his position as Lord Protector - that's a hereditary royalist type principle. Perhaps, Oliver Cromwell should of left the position of 'Lord Protector' open for election amongst the English Republican hierarchy. Oliver Cromwell was head of state on merit whereas Richard Cromwell was not - Oliver Cromwell was, therefore, England's last legitimate head of state. Personally, if I were Cromwell, I would of left the office open for Major General Harrison - a clever man and a staunch English Republican.

[annanimo]

Oliver Cromwell was wrong to dictate for his son Richard to inherit his position as Lord Protector - that's a hereditary royalist type principle. Perhaps, Oliver Cromwell should of left the position of 'Lord Protector' open for election amongst the English Republican hierarchy. Oliver Cromwell was head of state on merit whereas Richard Cromwell was not - Oliver Cromwell was, therefore, England's last legitimate head of state. Personally, if I were Cromwell, I would of left the office open for Major General Harrison - a clever man and a staunch English Republican.

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I think the difficulty with interpreting history is that many of us tend to view those of a previous era through a twenty-first century mindset. This is true of course in regards most historical figures, but Cromwell I'm sure you will agree has suffered more than most at the hands of modern revisionist historians.

In regards legitimacy to govern - how do we determine who or what is legitimate? In today's parliamentary democracy (albeit a lame excuse for one) this is easily determined by gaining a "mandate" from the electorate via "democratic" election. With election comes responsibility and accountability, and so on... Although Cromwell and others like Pym and Ireton are ultimately responsible for the development of the political thought that led to what we consider democracy, these principles as we understand them would not have been comprehended by a 17th century audience.

Cromwell was a man of real principle but many of his principles were the product of a very narrow interpretation of Biblical truth. This does not detract from his heroism and achievements, but does underline the point that he was from a different era, when prayer books were issues that divided nations. He was a man for his time, who responded to the pressures and demands of his time. He should not be interpreted in the same way we interpret the actions of modern leaders.

So was Richard Cromwell legitimate? In the context of today's political expression, probably not. But in that case, was he any less legitimate than Alec Douglas Home or John Major when they were elected to power by a couple of hundred colleagues (in John Major's case 183)? Before the advent of electoral democracy, I am not entirely sure Richard Cromwell would be seen as an illegitimate leader. I am not aware of any system in place at the time to adopt a successor to Cromwell and there was not a great deal of resistance to Richard's elevation. Your point about Harrison is a good one, he had genuine leadership capabilities - but there was opportunity to "elect" (if you like) a new leader of the Commonwealth following Richard's resignation in May 1559. As things turned out, Republicanism decided it would rather give way to monarchy again...

Which begs the question - was Cromwell the legitimate leader of England in the first instance? But I'll leave someone else to answer that!