A Question For Religous Types...

[hilltop red]

2 questions for people of the christian faith:

1- jesus christ was a simple man who lived a simple existance and not generating wealth. Why is the vatican such an eloberate place of great wealth and massive imposing buildings.

2- if the christian religion is all about forgiveness, why have a judgement day at the end of it all?

[Dollymarie]

Sadly cos thats the twisted and slightly odd Catholic church for you. And yes I do feel in a position to make a comment like that, having spent 11 years in catholic school. don't get me started.

(and no I am no longer a practicing catholic)

[DolmanDudess]

Sadly cos thats the twisted and slightly odd Catholic church for you. And yes I do feel in a position to make a comment like that, having spent 11 years in catholic school. don't get me started.

(and no I am no longer a practicing catholic)

I went to a Catholic school aswell!! Weird concepts and ideas. They werent allowed to teach us about contraception because they don't believe in it. With what seem's an epidemic of STI's, HIV floating around I'm sure they would of touched on it but no!! Strange

[Dollymarie]

Yup the only sex education I got was don't have sex until you get married.

And if Gods so bloody wonderful why are there so many people dying and suffering in the world is how I see it.

[hilltop red]

Sadly cos thats the twisted and slightly odd Catholic church for you. And yes I do feel in a position to make a comment like that, having spent 11 years in catholic school. don't get me started.

(and no I am no longer a practicing catholic)

Thank good henry vIII pulled away from rome. And elizabeth I'st didnt marry the king of spain. That was a good thing wasn't it red goblin

[DolmanDudess]

Yup the only sex education I got was don't have sex until you get married.

And if Gods so bloody wonderful why are there so many people dying and suffering in the world is how I see it.

You are spot on there Dolly. Why are so many innocent people suffering when murderers, rapists and the such like get such leinancy?? These questions really have made me question the big JC in recent times!! Sighs

[hilltop red]

when murderers, rapists and the such like get such leinancy?? These questions really have made me question the big JC in recent times!! Sighs

that would be because the current corrupt gestapo police force( ) and tony blair regime accepting the eu human rights law. and some of the nutter p.c crowd beliveing rapists to be mis understood.

[DolmanDudess]

that would be because the current corrupt gestapo police force( ) and tony blair regime accepting the eu human rights law. and some of the nutter p.c crowd beliveing rapists to be mis understood.

What a ###### up world we do live in eh?!!

[Dollymarie]

that would be because the current corrupt gestapo police force( ) and tony blair regime accepting the eu human rights law. and some of the nutter p.c crowd beliveing rapists to be mis understood.

Yeah but if god was so bloody wonderful that he could create the world in which we live in, why would he then allow "bad" people to a)be born in it and b) commit the evil they do

(I can see a good debate developing here)

[hilltop red]

Yeah but if god was so bloody wonderful that he could create the world in which we live in, why would he then allow "bad" people to a)be born in it and b) commit the evil they do

(I can see a good debate developing here)

i don't belive in the christian sense of a god. I belive in fate and such like. And hope death is't the end. But christian texts and beliefs wont change my mind. I need a sign. A burning bush, sea parting kind of sign!

[DolmanDudess]

Yeah but if god was so bloody wonderful that he could create the world in which we live in, why would he then allow "bad" people to a)be born in it and b) commit the evil they do

(I can see a good debate developing here)

And why doesnt he do more to save some of his most faithful servents and allow, peado's, rapists and evil idiots back into our communities to carry on committing the most terrible of crimes!! This world is unjust and unfair and well, just damn right confuzzling!!

[Dorset_Cider]

2 questions for people of the christian faith:

1- jesus christ was a simple man who lived a simple existance and not generating wealth. Why is the vatican such an eloberate place of great wealth and massive imposing buildings.

>>Because Historically The Vatican Is/Was About Power & Influence By Usage Of Putting The Fear Of God Into The Population

2- if the christian religion is all about forgiveness, why have a judgement day at the end of it all?

>>See above Fear Of God....... Keeps the Peasants down

>>The Medieval Church played a far greater role in Medieval England than the Church does today. In Medieval England, the Church dominated everybody's life. All Medieval people - be they village peasants or towns people - believed that God, Heaven and Hell all existed. From the very earliest of ages, the people were taught that the only way they could get to Heaven was if the Roman Catholic Church let them. Everybody would have been terrified of Hell and the people would have been told of the sheer horrors awaiting for them in Hell in the weekly services they attended.

The control the Church had over the people was total. Peasants worked for free on Church land. This proved difficult for peasants as the time they spent working on Church land, could have been better spent working on their own plots of land producing food for their families.

They paid 10% of what they earned in a year to the Church (this tax was called tithes). Tithes could be paid in either money or in goods produced by the peasant farmers. As peasants had little money, they almost always had to pay in seeds, harvested grain, animals etc. This usually caused a peasant a lot of hardship as seeds, for example, would be needed to feed a family the following year. What the Church got in tithes was kept in huge tithe barns; a lot of the stored grain would have been eaten by rats or poisoned by their urine. A failure to pay tithes, so the peasants were told by the Church, would lead to their souls going to Hell after they had died.

[mozo]

Why are so many innocent people suffering when murderers, rapists and the such like get such leinancy??

Well, they're going to hell which is apparently worse than prison, whilst those who are good go somwhere better. I'd imagine that's the Christian answer, not that I am one.

[hilltop red]

Well, they're going to hell which is apparently worse than prison, whilst those who are good go somwhere better. I'd imagine that's the Christian answer, not that I am one.

but if god forgives everybody, then he is a hypocrite if he sends them to hell. The christian faith is built on forgiveness apparentley!

[DolmanDudess]

Well, they're going to hell which is apparently worse than prison, whilst those who are good go somwhere better. I'd imagine that's the Christian answer, not that I am one.

Confuzzled?? Cos i sure am!! As Hilltop says, the whole Christian faith is based on forgiveness, so if they are forgiven and are cleansed of all their sin so say why should they go to hell??

Ahhhhhhhh

[Guest Ron]

Yeah but if god was so bloody wonderful that he could create the world in which we live in, why would he then allow "bad" people to a)be born in it and b) commit the evil they do

(I can see a good debate developing here)

Agree. And if God is so powerful then why do we all need to worship him?

As I heard it once, and this is class in my opinion, "The Executive Producer in the Sky".

[mozo]

Yeah but if god was so bloody wonderful that he could create the world in which we live in, why would he then allow "bad" people to a)be born in it and b) commit the evil they do

(I can see a good debate developing here)

I'd imagine that being God, creator of all that exists, there isn't much time to personally vet all humans, nor to watch their progress. Even his admin team must have other duties to deal with.

I believe the bad stuff is the devils work isn't it? So if the whole world were good Christians, the devil would probably get annoyed and bugger off.

Surely the fact that Bristol City are languishing in the murky depths of league one is evidence that God has just upped and left the human race to it!!

[Guest Ron]

I'd imagine that being God, creator of all that exists, there isn't much time to personally vet all humans, nor to watch their progress. Even his admin team must have other duties to deal with.

I believe the bad stuff is the devils work isn't it? So if the whole world were good Christians, the devil would probably get annoyed and bugger off.

Surely the fact that Bristol City are languishing in the murky depths of league one is evidence that God has just upped and left the human race to it!!

If God is all-powerful then why is there a Devil???

[mozo]

As Hilltop says, the whole Christian faith is based on forgiveness, so if they are forgiven and are cleansed of all their sin so say why should they go to hell??

I would imagine the answer to be that making mistakes is fine, but if your time comes to an end and you still don't feel remorse, then you deserve punishment to teach you a lesson you won't forget.

If you have remorse for your sins, you must be a good person at heart...I guess?

[DolmanDudess]

I would imagine the answer to be that making mistakes is fine, but if your time comes to an end and you still don't feel remorse, then you deserve punishment to teach you a lesson you won't forget.

If you have remorse for your sins, you must be a good person at heart...I guess?

Mozo, my dear dear mozo. It is far to late for my little brain to be coping with all this!! I guess you might be right but a mass murderer feeling remorse for their sins - a good person??!! I might find that one quite hard to comprehend

[mozo]

If God is all-powerful then why is there a Devil???

I don't know if all Christians believe God to be omniscient and omnipotent (mozo's fancy words of the day) but if he is all-powerful, maybe he just fancied a challenge.

We're supposedly being 'tested' aren't we?

[hilltop red]

I would imagine the answer to be that making mistakes is fine, but if your time comes to an end and you still don't feel remorse, then you deserve punishment to teach you a lesson you won't forget.

If you have remorse for your sins, you must be a good person at heart...I guess?

No, that cant be right. That women vicar in somerset who left the preist hood because she couldn't forgive the suicide london bombers who killed her daughter. If they were going to hell, why did she have to even contomplate forgiving them?

[Guest Ron]

We're supposedly being 'tested' aren't we?

Would that not make god incredibly arrogant and irresponsible?

[Dollymarie]

Funny sort of testing when you're a newborn baby starving in Africa and your parents have both died of AIDS because the Catholic church refuses to tell the practicing catholics there that they can use condoms because "they don't believe in them"

[mozo]

Mozo, my dear dear mozo. It is far to late for my little brain to be coping with all this!! I guess you might be right but a mass murderer feeling remorse for their sins - a good person??!! I might find that one quite hard to comprehend

They might have a good soul, but have struggled emotionally or mentally. This should twist your melon further: If you murder someone who murdered one of your relatives - are you evil? If Gary Glitter was metally and emotionally affected by himself having been abused as a child - would he still be evil?

Disturbing stuff - I'm just glad that I don't do bad stuff despite my lack of religious belief

[Dollymarie]

If Gary Glitter was metally and emotionally affected by himself having been abused as a child - would he still be evil?

Gary glitter has no excuse sorry but he doesnt. There are millions of abuse victims all over the world that don't go and do the degrading despicable things that he did. Just because he was abused doesnt give him the allowance (if I can use that word) to go and carry on the cycle.

[DolmanDudess]

They might have a good soul, but have struggled emotionally or mentally. This should twist your melon further: If you murder someone who murdered one of your relatives - are you evil? If Gary Glitter was metally and emotionally affected by himself having been abused as a child - would he still be evil?

Disturbing stuff - I'm just glad that I don't do bad stuff despite my lack of religious belief

Ah shudup!! My brain is well and truly mashed now!! As ive said my religious beliefs have been greatly challenged over the last few years!! There's so many questions i need answering and this really isnt helping. A messed up world we truly do live in!!

[mozo]

Would that not make god incredibly arrogant and irresponsible?

I dunno. We do driving tests to see if we're fit to command a vehicle. We do tests at school to see if we're fit for further education. We do tests to see if we're fit for employment.

Maybe life is one test to see if we're fit for a blissful afterlife - heaven. Maybe God has set the ultimate test.

Ah shudup!! My brain is well and truly mashed now!! As ive said my religious beliefs have been greatly challenged over the last few years!! There's so many questions i need answering and this really isnt helping. A messed up world we truly do live in!!

Life's not a walk in the park (unless at that point in time you are actually taking a walk in the park )

I reckon that if you hold doors open for people and smile to show you don't mind doing so; if you make your fair share of cuppas; if you don't judge other people too harshly - then you're on the right track.

You certainly don't need religion to be a good person.

[DolmanDudess]

I dunno. We do driving tests to see if we're fit to command a vehicle. We do tests at school to see if we're fit for further education. We do tests to see if we're fit for employment.

Maybe life is one test to see if we're fit for a blissful afterlife - heaven. Maybe God has set the ultimate test.

Life's not a walk in the park (unless at that point in time you are actually taking a walk in the park )

I reckon that if you hold doors open for people and smile to show you don't mind doing so; if you make your fair share of cuppas; if you don't judge other people too harshly - then you're on the right track.

You certainly don't need religion to be a good person.

Ah, you might be right on the mark there. Cheers Mozo, thats damned good advice

[KevinC]

2 questions for people of the christian faith:

1- jesus christ was a simple man who lived a simple existance and not generating wealth. Why is the vatican such an eloberate place of great wealth and massive imposing buildings.

2- if the christian religion is all about forgiveness, why have a judgement day at the end of it all?

My goodness, you've all been busy... I go out to take one service and all of a sudden a moral and existential debate pops up!!!!

Good debate though.

I agree that Jesus was a man of simple tastes who connected with the struggling, ordinary people of his day. The greatest tragedy was in the fourth century when the Roman emperor Constantine adopted Christianity and suddenly the Church was allied with power and prestige. I can't speak for the Vatican as I'm an Anglican (I was a practising Catholic who got so good at it that I left to join the C of E), but would be happy to see bishops' palaces sold off and them live in much more modest accommodation, and some of our empty churches (there are a few in Bristol, none in Wigan by the way) demolished and turned into flats for the elderly or the otherwise homeless.

The Christian religion is about forgiveness but it's all about repentance too, so while we do stuff that's wrong we do have to desire to repent.... THAT'S when God meets us with forgiveness. If however we go through life being a total ####### then we deserve everything we get.

We live in an imperfect world where evil sometimes seems to have the upper hand. But that's the way it is, and we're offered no promises of health, wealth or success. I suppose what this weekend is all about is that not all the evil in the world could keep Jesus in the grave, he wins in the end, and if we hang in there, so do we.

Here endeth my Easter sermon, I must take the dog for a walk!