Bnp & Council Elections

[The Batman]

44 seats

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4968406.stm

foot in the door or little phase that will die down in a few years???

hopefully the latter but the way this country is going, you never know.

[barry_manc]

Third/Fourth Reich springs to mind. So many similarities it scares me. Hitler bombed the Reichstag to heighten public hatred towards a specific minority, people very high up where apparently involved with the London bombs. Areas like Stoke are already being lead by the BNP, their control on matters is increasing as is the public hatred towards Islam. Since last july lots of Mosques have been burnt down in the north east, none of which was in the media, yet a couple of muslims beating up white men becomes front line news. The papers say a lot about the demise of Chrisitian, Muslim relations - and although it is promotion of fear tactics, it is certaintly working and I am worried that if this continues, there will be another hatred campaign like Hitler did with the jews. Very bad news in my opinion. Have only ever met a few BNP 'fans' they were all skinheads, lower class, and fairly 'thuggish', one of them was a copper who had just arrested me, he turned round midinterview and said "I read that BNP manifesto, totally agree with all of it". That is what's running our country. Not good at all.

[The Batman]

Third/Fourth Reich springs to mind. So many similarities it scares me. Hitler bombed the Reichstag to heighten public hatred towards a specific minority, people very high up where apparently involved with the London bombs. Areas like Stoke are already being lead by the BNP, their control on matters is increasing as is the public hatred towards Islam. Since last july lots of Mosques have been burnt down in the north east, none of which was in the media, yet a couple of muslims beating up white men becomes front line news. The papers say a lot about the demise of Chrisitian, Muslim relations - and although it is promotion of fear tactics, it is certaintly working and I am worried that if this continues, there will be another hatred campaign like Hitler did with the jews. Very bad news in my opinion. Have only ever met a few BNP 'fans' they were all skinheads, lower class, and fairly 'thuggish', one of them was a copper who had just arrested me, he turned round midinterview and said "I read that BNP manifesto, totally agree with all of it". That is what's running our country. Not good at all.

i see your point about the comparison to hitler, but u have to remember that hitler made a coalition with the conservatives, which is why they won the 1933 election. I cant see David Cameron turning round to Nick Griffith and asking for a form of allegiance.

[barry_manc]

i see your point about the comparison to hitler, but u have to remember that hitler made a coalition with the conservatives, which is why they won the 1933 election. I cant see David Cameron turning round to Nick Griffith and asking for a form of allegiance.

Good point and you are right, but I'm not so concerned with how they will get their power, if they do even, more with the support they are getting across the country. To have a blatantly racist political party as leader of any constituancy is just wrong in this country in this day and age. It shoudln't be happening, these people voting for them should know that racism will not sort out a problem. And they should be ashamed of holding such backwards views. Sorry to get on my high horse here but I can't help but perceive racists as a lower breed than the rest of us. Did you know racism was only made illegal in this country in the 60's? Funked up country thisun.

[deadratinmycider]

Interesting views guys.

I think you are both right to be concerned about the growing support of the BNP. It will continue to grow and I think the main culprit is the media. Tabloids like The Sun are writing a lot of headline stories about illegal imigrants committing crime, etc and the BNP are benefiting from this.

People who are not necessarily racists but are angry about the amount of overseas immigrants are starting to become sympathetic to the BNP's views. Labour are at their most unpopular, the Tory's are pretty hopeless and Liberal are going through leader changes so I can only see the support for BNP increasing, helped along by the red top papers.

[barry_manc]

But it's not just the so called lower class papers that are promoting the anti-Islam theme, a fair few of the broadsheets have been, with the likes of Murdock and the Times seeming pretty on que with the fear tactics, as are the likes of Channel 4 news, who seem biased in a more subtle way. The more I hear the more it reminds me of that fat blokes 9/11 film and the fear tactics he talked about in that. And for me, that points a big finger at the origin of the fear tactics... The government? I don't think that makes sense, because ultimatly it will cost them their positions, but then why is so much of the media concentrating on these themes when there are far bigger issues (still in Afghan, still in Iraq, now Iran etc)? I always assume that the freemasons have a say in these issues and can't help but think they're involved - it would explain a lot of the medias perspectives anyway.

Also the goings on in France is worrying. There is a lot of anti-sematism going on and that facist bloke nearly came into power in the last elections. And, obviously they're on strike every other day, so, could France revolt, start up a new facist regime and we follow their lead? Let's hope not, although I'm getting ideas for my new book...

[deadratinmycider]

But it's not just the so called lower class papers that are promoting the anti-Islam theme, a fair few of the broadsheets have been, with the likes of Murdock and the Times seeming pretty on que with the fear tactics, as are the likes of Channel 4 news, who seem biased in a more subtle way. The more I hear the more it reminds me of that fat blokes 9/11 film and the fear tactics he talked about in that. And for me, that points a big finger at the origin of the fear tactics... The government? I don't think that makes sense, because ultimatly it will cost them their positions, but then why is so much of the media concentrating on these themes when there are far bigger issues (still in Afghan, still in Iraq, now Iran etc)? I always assume that the freemasons have a say in these issues and can't help but think they're involved - it would explain a lot of the medias perspectives anyway.

Also the goings on in France is worrying. There is a lot of anti-sematism going on and that facist bloke nearly came into power in the last elections. And, obviously they're on strike every other day, so, could France revolt, start up a new facist regime and we follow their lead? Let's hope not, although I'm getting ideas for my new book...

I think we have a long way to go until we are at the same level as France when it comes to anti-sematism. I travelled all around France last year and it was very strange. I visited a lot of the City's and, for a country with a large multi-racial population, you barely saw any mix of races in the City centre's.

The only time I came accross a black community was in a really run-down part of Lyon. The recent riots came as no surprise to me as racial tension seems to have been simmering there for a long time. Should the BNP's popularity rise to the point where the BNP leader was on the verge of power, then we may see the same sort of problems here. There have already been such riots in Bradford and these would be

more common place as the ethnic minority groups became more and more threatened by any increase in facist support.

[barry_manc]

I think we have a long way to go until we are at the same level as France when it comes to anti-sematism. I travelled all around France last year and it was very strange. I visited a lot of the City's and, for a country with a large multi-racial population, you barely saw any mix of races in the City centre's.

The only time I came accross a black community was in a really run-down part of Lyon. The recent riots came as no surprise to me as racial tension seems to have been simmering there for a long time. Should the BNP's popularity rise to the point where the BNP leader was on the verge of power, then we may see the same sort of problems here. There have already been such riots in Bradford and these would be

more common place as the ethnic minority groups became more and more threatened by any increase in facist support.

It's certaintly brewing up in France, I just hope that they can forsee it and prevent what would be a European calastrophe. You have highlighted the similarities between the problems both countries are suffering from facism, and the US can be similarily attributed what with Bushs lack of interest in New Orleans' black culture after that hurricane, and the fear propaganda constantly attributed towards the black people. It seems to be another problem that is only growing with time. It is worrying, and seemingly Christian vs Muslim based, although I can't help but wonder how much oil and its control plays a part. If the two religions where to go head to head I would surely spell the end of the world - if you had to which side would you follow? Balls to the christians, I'd hate to think I was doing God's work via Bush in some small Arab country. Then again I wouldn't be too keen on being a Shiite terrorist so, pfft, chuck em all down the well.

[dagest]

I think you are both right to be concerned about the growing support of the BNP. It will continue to grow and I think the main culprit is the media. Tabloids like The Sun are writing a lot of headline stories about illegal imigrants committing crime, etc and the BNP are benefiting from this.

Exactly. And there's Bristolborn and Red who never wastes an opportunity to demonise Musilms too.

[scootered]

Exactly. And there's Bristolborn and Red who never wastes an opportunity to demonise Musilms too.

Maybe, just maybe, he has a point

[barry_manc]

Maybe, just maybe, he has a point

Who's that in your sig? He looks familiar

[scootered]

Baldrick, AKA Tony Robinson AKA God

[barry_manc]

Oh yeh, he looks a bit like Avid Merrion minus the ging...

Wouldn't expect you to be advocating a gay in your cig.

[Mr Mosquito]

Baldrick, AKA Tony Robinson AKA God

Baldrick AKA Tony Robinson is a true TV icon and an iconic Bristol City FC supporter. Tony Robinson once hosted a brilliant historical CH4 programme on the issue of the imposter German descended 'God' Queen Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg-Gotha AKA Queen Elizabeth II. Twas great when Baldrick stood outside Buckingham Palace and proclaimed Queen Elizabeth II to be nothing but a German descended imposter monarch living in the UK's most expensive council house at our expense. Great television and entertainment indeed.

[mozo]

Good point and you are right, but I'm not so concerned with how they will get their power, if they do even, more with the support they are getting across the country. To have a blatantly racist political party as leader of any constituancy is just wrong in this country in this day and age. It shoudln't be happening, these people voting for them should know that racism will not sort out a problem. And they should be ashamed of holding such backwards views. Sorry to get on my high horse here but I can't help but perceive racists as a lower breed than the rest of us. Did you know racism was only made illegal in this country in the 60's? Funked up country thisun.

But it's not just the so called lower class papers that are promoting the anti-Islam theme, a fair few of the broadsheets have been, with the likes of Murdock and the Times seeming pretty on que with the fear tactics, as are the likes of Channel 4 news, who seem biased in a more subtle way. The more I hear the more it reminds me of that fat blokes 9/11 film and the fear tactics he talked about in that. And for me, that points a big finger at the origin of the fear tactics... The government? I don't think that makes sense, because ultimatly it will cost them their positions, but then why is so much of the media concentrating on these themes when there are far bigger issues (still in Afghan, still in Iraq, now Iran etc)? I always assume that the freemasons have a say in these issues and can't help but think they're involved - it would explain a lot of the medias perspectives anyway.

Also the goings on in France is worrying. There is a lot of anti-sematism going on and that facist bloke nearly came into power in the last elections. And, obviously they're on strike every other day, so, could France revolt, start up a new facist regime and we follow their lead? Let's hope not, although I'm getting ideas for my new book...

Good to hear you share my concern Baz. I always thought you were a fascist **** but I don't anymore .

The TV expose's were very interesting. Every undercover documentary so far has found the BNP to be nothing but a bunch of racists. The best one was when the undercover Jewish documentary maker secretly filmed one of the BNP's protigees boasting about how Nazi Germany was his inspiration!

Far from the lower class people that you've met, many of the BNP's clan are well-to-do idiots, desperate for some attention.

Having lived up north and had mates from Bradford, I'm deeply concerned about race relations in this country.

Which oddly enough was the subject matter of my very first post on Non-Footy. Who would have thought it would have descended into such 'raffe-based farce?!

[bristolborn_and_red]

Exactly. And there's Bristolborn and Red who never wastes an opportunity to demonise Musilms too.

Me demonise, never.

All i do is point out what fundalmentalist islam is up to and where they get their inspiration from. I don't like islam because i've learned about it and its history. Islamic ideology is as facist as the BNP. If you don't like facism then you cannot favour islam.

[bucksred]

Exactly. And there's Bristolborn and Red who never wastes an opportunity to demonise Musilms too.

So the demo in London was a figment of our imagination, and the terrorist attacks on 07/07? And that school in Berlin, where the overwhelmingly Muslim pupils WONT speak German, wont behave, and the left wing teachers there refuse to teach in said school? These people are EXACTLY the type of people the BNP's new found confidence is based on.

Abu Hamsa, Al Majaroun, The London Bombers......all grist to BNP mill.

Little public condemnation of these nutters, little assimilation........all grist to BNP mill

signs in Brick Lane in Urdu/Gudjarat...............in ENGLAND.........all grist to BNP mill

Honour killings, arranged marriages...........all grist to BNP mill

Fighting for the full muslim dress in SECULAR Britain..........all grist to BNP mill

Wether you like it or not, and you clearly don't, its EXACTLY why the seig heiling sheytehawks are winning seats......British people are feeling alienated, and unrepresented, and BNP fill that void.

I've a lot more reason to want the BNP gone (I'm an immigrant too)..........but they only thrive on fertile ground

[dagest]

So the demo in London was a figment of our imagination, and the terrorist attacks on 07/07? And that school in Berlin, where the overwhelmingly Muslim pupils WONT speak German, wont behave, and the left wing teachers there refuse to teach in said school? These people are EXACTLY the type of people the BNP's new found confidence is based on.

Abu Hamsa, Al Majaroun, The London Bombers......all grist to BNP mill.

Little public condemnation of these nutters, little assimilation........all grist to BNP mill

signs in Brick Lane in Urdu/Gudjarat...............in ENGLAND.........all grist to BNP mill

Honour killings, arranged marriages...........all grist to BNP mill

Fighting for the full muslim dress in SECULAR Britain..........all grist to BNP mill

Wether you like it or not, and you clearly don't, its EXACTLY why the seig heiling sheytehawks are winning seats......British people are feeling alienated, and unrepresented, and BNP fill that void.

I've a lot more reason to want the BNP gone (I'm an immigrant too)..........but they only thrive on fertile ground

What I don't like is the stereotyping attached to stories about Muslims. Of course I don't like the fundamentalists they're as wacky as they come, but I can't accept the typical portrayal of Muslims presented in the Murdoch media circus. And to try and claim Islam is fundamentally evil is complete hogwash.

I'd argue (and I guess this what you're saying too) that the decadence of parliamentary politics in Her Majesty's realm creates as much grist for the BNP mill as anything else.

[Mr Mosquito]

What I don't like is the stereotyping attached to stories about Muslims. Of course I don't like the fundamentalists they're as wacky as they come, but I can't accept the typical portrayal of Muslims presented in the Murdoch media circus. And to try and claim Islam is fundamentally evil is complete hogwash.

I'd argue (and I guess this what you're saying too) that the decadence of parliamentary politics in Her Majesty's realm creates as much grist for the BNP mill as anything else.

Oliver Cromwell's English Republican regime taught us to be tolerant of our fellow Englishman's religious beliefs lest they be that of the 'God' King/Queen cult i.e. the Church of England - the only church that was banned under the period of the Commonwealth and Protectorate.

"By 1646 King Charles was holed up in Oxford under siege by Cromwell's army and the worst of the fighting was soon to be over with defeat for the Royalists. In December 1648, the 'Council of Mechanics' of the new Commonwealth voted for a toleration of various religious groups, including the Muslims. The next year, in 1649, the first English translation of the Qur'an, by Ross, was printed. It had two imprints, attesting to a wide circulation, "notwithstanding", says Matar, "the inaccuracy of the translation or the bigotry of the translator".

Following the regicide in 1649, sole authority now rested with Cromwell, 'Lord Protector'. Reference to Islam and Muslims was part of the discourse of the times. Cromwell's enemies attacked the revolutionaries for their disrespect of parish priests and rejection of the 'High Anglican' official tenets: "And indeed if Christians will but diligently read and observe the Laws and Histories of the Mahometans, they may blush to see how zealous they are in the works of devotion, piety and charity, how devout, cleanly and reverend in their Mosques, how obedient to their Priests, that even the Great Turk himself will attempt nothing without consulting his Mufti". The revolutionaries, according to their critics, followed their own self-declared religious authorities, while even the Sultan heeded the advice of the Mufti on religious matters. Other writers who were unsympathetic to the revolution compared the 'Professours of Religion' amongst the Turks with 'the Puritans' of Cromwell. In Cromwell's camp there were men like the remarkable Henry Stubbe, scholar in Latin, Greek and Hebrew and friend of Pococke, the first professor of Arabic in Oxford. According to or own contemporary (English) Muslim scholar in Cambridge, Abdal Hakim Murad, Stubbe "had sided with Parliament during the civil war, holding, with Cromwell, that the righteous man may sometimes justly bear the burden of the sword. An admirer of Cromwell, he became an admirer of the Prophet".

Stubbe's circle must have known his private views on Muslims and Islam, which could not be publicly disclosed at the time: "their articles of faith are few and plain, whereby they are preserved from schisms and heresies, for although' they have great diversity of opinion in the explication of their Law, yet, agreeing in the fundamentals, their difference in opinion do not reach the breach of charity so common among the Christians, who thereby become a scandal to all other religions in the world". At least six manuscripts of Stubbe's book 'An account of the Rise and Progress of Mahometanism, and a Vindication of him and his Religion from the Calumnies of the Christians' circulated in a clandestine manner (not to be published until 1911).

Professor Matar believes that Cromwell, and/or his Secretary, John Milton, showed familiarity with the Qur'an in a letter to the ruler of Algiers in June 1656. "Cromwell expected the addressee to abide by the commercial agreements between their two countries because of the nature of Muslim religion: 'We now at this time require the like of you who have declar'd your selves hitherto in all things to be men loving righteousness, hating wrong, & observing faithfulnesse in covenant'. The last words repeat the exact description of Islam as a religion that advocates righteousness and repudiates wrong-doing". Matar rightly concludes that " from sectary to antiquarian to Lord Protector, the Qur'an was a text widely consulted and quoted: it had legitimacy for addressing not only Muslims overseas but Christians in England and the rest of the British Isles".

Cromwell's Protestant Commonwealth died with him in 1658, and following the Restoration of the monarchy and the return of Orthodox Anglicanism, the period of toleration ended. All students signing for their BA at Oxford or Cambridge had to attest to an acceptance of the Thirty-Nine Articles of the Anglican Church, which included belief in a Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Ghost, 'one and indivisible, three in one and one in three'. Englishmen who viewed Islam favourably or had rejected Trinitarianism were accused of heresy. Stubbe himself was imprisoned. It is interesting to note that his contemporary at Cambridge, Isaac Newton, who was much influenced by Muslim Arab scholarship (more about this later), placed the offer of the Lucasian Professorship made to him in 1674 at risk by refusing to take holy orders, a mandatory requirement at the time. Newton secretly rejected Trinitarianism (according to his biographer, Michael White, Newton was 'fanatically opposed' to the concept of Trinity). Fortunately for science, King Charles II granted him a special dispensation and all subsequent holders of the chair were exempted from holy orders."

Source: http://www.salaam.co.uk/bookshelf/iinbritain.html

[The Batman]

What I don't like is the stereotyping attached to stories about Muslims. Of course I don't like the fundamentalists they're as wacky as they come, but I can't accept the typical portrayal of Muslims presented in the Murdoch media circus. And to try and claim Islam is fundamentally evil is complete hogwash.

I'd argue (and I guess this what you're saying too) that the decadence of parliamentary politics in Her Majesty's realm creates as much grist for the BNP mill as anything else.

agreed 1 million percent, (for once i agree with you)

My mate is a muslim and he hates getting tarred with the same brush as those who are extremist in their views on British society,

small story here, but it is always the Asian guys who kick off the fights in wolves (where i live), and my mate (muslim lad mentioned above) hates it as he has to be considered the same as them because he's an asian lad who is a muslim, and as stated above by myself, he hates being confused with those who wanna start trouble every night, it is a massive sterotype and it annoys me as well, because me being a catholic and my ancestors being Irish, i get accused of being a member of the IRA every half hour. I laugh it off, but there are some who cant hack it as well as some people.

At least this is what i think Dagest is trying to get across to us.

[bristolborn_and_red]

agreed 1 million percent, (for once i agree with you)

My mate is a muslim and he hates getting tarred with the same brush as those who are extremist in their views on British society,

small story here, but it is always the Asian guys who kick off the fights in wolves (where i live), and my mate (muslim lad mentioned above) hates it as he has to be considered the same as them because he's an asian lad who is a muslim, and as stated above by myself, he hates being confused with those who wanna start trouble every night, it is a massive sterotype and it annoys me as well, because me being a catholic and my ancestors being Irish, i get accused of being a member of the IRA every half hour. I laugh it off, but there are some who cant hack it as well as some people.

At least this is what i think Dagest is trying to get across to us.

So ask your mate to go to his local mosque at Friday prayers. Ask him to stand up and condemn the jihad, that sharia law is outdated and not for the 21st century and that all people, muslim and non-muslim, are of equal status. If he hates the stereotype so much, remind him he lives in a free country and he can do something about. Ask him to go the local mosque and set the ball rolling in organising a march against fundalmentalist islam (muslims were quite eager to march against cartoons that weren't even printed in this country). He wont because he can't. If he did, he would be branded a heretic or an apostate and that could put his life in danger.

[mozo]

So ask your mate to go to his local mosque at Friday prayers. Ask him to stand up and condemn the jihad, that sharia law is outdated and not for the 21st century and that all people, muslim and non-muslim, are of equal status. If he hates the stereotype so much, remind him he lives in a free country and he can do something about. Ask him to go the local mosque and set the ball rolling in organising a march against fundalmentalist islam (muslims were quite eager to march against cartoons that weren't even printed in this country). He wont because he can't. If he did, he would be branded a heretic or an apostate and that could put his life in danger.

I hate to tell you bud, but most muslim clerics have denounced the fundamentalist terrorists - it just hasn't been deemed newsworthy by the Sun and Daily Mail (what a surprise).

Nor does the muslim faith preach superiority over others any more than any other religion.

Did you actually think that normal muslims support terrorism?

At least this is what i think Dagest is trying to get across to us.

The point Dagest is making is very simple: there is a difference between a true muslim and a fundamentalist nutter. They are not one and the same.

The reason many British non-muslims can't see that is because they're fed a very one-sided, negative and false porttrayal of the muslim faith in the media.

[screech]

Interesting views guys.

I think you are both right to be concerned about the growing support of the BNP. It will continue to grow and I think the main culprit is the media. Tabloids like The Sun are writing a lot of headline stories about illegal imigrants committing crime, etc and the BNP are benefiting from this.

Would that be because there are a lot of immigrants coming into this country illegally and committing crime and staying here, being housed fed and clothed before some of our own people.

Why shouldn't they be writing about that? Bloody good on them I say for highlighting the fact that this is going on while young kids born here can't even get on the council lists for homes.

Illegal immigrants should be sent packing as soon as they turn up into the hands of the law, not sent to jail at yours and mine expense after committing crime and let out to do it all again, boo bloody hoo to the tabloids for being pro sending them back home.

People who are not necessarily racists but are angry about the amount of overseas immigrants are starting to become sympathetic to the BNP's views. Labour are at their most unpopular, the Tory's are pretty hopeless and Liberal are going through leader changes so I can only see the support for BNP increasing, helped along by the red top papers.

Agree with the first bit of that but it's not the papers fault for highlighting the stories that are going on, it's the governments fault for letting it happen in the first place, stop the illegal immigrants by manning our soldiers in airports and sea ports instead of sending them to a country on it's knees IRAQ, and we may see more top stories like "Jordan gets her breasts out on beach" again from the wonderful inventive journos.

I'm a spoilt paper voter if you must know my persuasion at election time. I'd rather not vote to show all parties exactly how much confidence I have in all of them to run my country.

Not one of them have ever represented me.

[Dolman_Stand]

I may be alone in this but I think the BNP are being unbelievably clever at the mo and are not coming across as racist

[mozo]

I may be alone in this but I think the BNP are being unbelievably clever at the mo and are not coming across as racist

Well they were doing quite well until the BBC undercover documentary exposed them and some of their top people ended up in court!

Their tactics are certainly predatory if that's what you mean by clever.

[bristolborn_and_red]

[scootered]

I hate to tell you bud, but most muslim clerics have denounced the fundamentalist terrorists -

Excellent news, but being the cynic I am, could you show me some proof of that statement please.

[Flaxbourton Red]

People voting for the BNP?

Scum. Should be banned.

Who'd live in a democracy eh?

[dagest]

[mozo]

Excellent news, but being the cynic I am, could you show me some proof of that statement please.

I saw it on the Channel four news and on documentaries. I'm sure if there's owt on-line you can find it for yourself.