The Scott Brown Issue

[Godzilla]

[cheshire_red]

Oh, and there was me thinking that some internet group of city fans had decided to big Scotty up.

[cider head]

thing is skuse and noble are not dominating the midfield area being a tough tackler or not and huddersfield

took the pee out of us, the fact remains our current midfield is not working and still there is no width

and a bit less passion is going on there to, brooker is in there looking for the ball, there is a problem with the 2 we got now

it needs sorting and it's not all about scotty brown but he can be the answer.

it don't matter if browner plays central our out wide he has to start, also russell must feel hard done

by as to be fair skuse has done nothing for for me and even russell deserves a shout.

Oh, and there was me thinking that some internet group of city fans had decided to big Scotty up.

and why not

the lad got passion and would run through brick walls to play for city and deserves his chance.

[twofingers]

[Nibor]

Agree with every word Godzilla posted.

thing is skuse and noble are not dominating the midfield area being a tough tackler or not and huddersfield

took the pee out of us, the fact remains our current midfield is not working and still there is no width

and a bit less passion is going on there to, brooker is in there looking for the ball, there is a problem with the 2 we got now

it needs sorting and it's not all about scotty brown but he can be the answer.

The problem against Huddersfield was nothing to do with the midfield pairing at all, when they had battles in the middle of the park they generally won them and they didn't waste possession. The problem was the Huddersfield played the ball over the midfield nearly all the time and we let them. Scott Brown on the wing closing down defenders playing long balls would have helped, Scott Brown in the middle would have got neck ache.

it don't matter if browner plays central our out wide he has to start, also russell must feel hard done

by as to be fair skuse has done nothing for for me and even russell deserves a shout.

and why not

Skuse is one of those underappreciated players who plays neat tidy football and avoids having to make two footed lunges that make players like Brown and Doherty popular because he very rarely gets caught out in position. Brown is a hell for leather player, he has some decent ability but he doesn't see the bigger picture and just goes for it. There's occasions where that is useful but it isn't something we need in the middle of the park in a 442.

the lad got passion and would run through brick walls to play for city and deserves his chance.

Bas Savage had passion. Passion is overrated.

[PhatWill]

Admittedly, Scott is only young and has all of this to learn, but I tend to agree with PhatWill in that he gets out of position far too easily and can go missing for periods in games.

Yeh, fantastic post. I certainly couldn't put it anywhere near as well as you have.

This time last year (after B'mouth away) I speculated as to whether Scott Brown was even good enough for League One football. Since then I think he's proved that he is up to this level. But he's not in the BCFC first team on merit. Central midfield is a strong area for us right now, and the addition of Johnson helps further.

Brown would be wasted on the flanks, and besides he's not what we need in that position right now.

Skuse doesn't get anywhere near as much praise for the way he plays the holding midfield role because he keeps his position so well, reads the game well and DOES put in hard tackles when necessary. Just because he doesn't send the man 2 feet in the air like Tommy used to or Scott Brown does, doesn't mean he's not an effective tackler.

I think Johnson genuinely rates Brown as a player of potential, but right now he's going to struggle to make many starts this season. A very useful squad player though, and when the injuries and suspensions start mounting up his time will come.

[cider head]

Agree with every word Godzilla posted.

The problem against Huddersfield was nothing to do with the midfield pairing at all, when they had battles in the middle of the park they generally won them and they didn't waste possession. The problem was the Huddersfield played the ball over the midfield nearly all the time and we let them. Scott Brown on the wing closing down defenders playing long balls would have helped, Scott Brown in the middle would have got neck ache.

Skuse is one of those underappreciated players who plays neat tidy football and avoids having to make two footed lunges that make players like Brown and Doherty popular because he very rarely gets caught out in position. Brown is a hell for leather player, he has some decent ability but he doesn't see the bigger picture and just goes for it. There's occasions where that is useful but it isn't something we need in the middle of the park in a 442.

Bas Savage had passion. Passion is overrated.

huddersfield playing over midfield at times mabe, but it's bought on because of the center 2.

brooker was flying in to tackles in the middle, he had no need to be there and brings in to question the drifting thing, as they are all drifting to get the ball, brooker, murray etc because the midfield are chasing chickens, hudders field were winning the ball in the middle and spreading it wide as our flanks and strikers had come inside to get the ball that the middle 2 were not winning, it leaves you exposed to a wide ball,

win it in the first place in the middle of the park and if we keep shape they have no out let wide,

city were very bunched against huddersfield without even battling for the ball, brooker seen this and came in to try and win it.

thing with skuse is he needs to play along side a battler who rattles the cages of the opposition

and can as you say do the neat and tidy stuff and out let the the fowards same with noble

it's like the burnell and tommy doc thing but in reverse, they were to much alike and we had no

out let, skuse and noble are good out let footballers but lack the battling, all teams have got one,

battling ball winner and holder.

Passion is overrated hmmm i feel roy keane, paul ince, gerry gow etc would disagree and if so

it explains why ashton gate is so shit in the stands as opposed to away games, but thats your opinion and

your entitled to it.

everyone needs a bit of Passion now and again and johnson is for ever saying it in his interviews

[Nibor]

huddersfield playing over midfield at times mabe, but it's bought on because of the center 2.

brooker was flying in to tackles in the middle, he had no need to be there and brings in to question the drifting thing, as they are all drifting to get the ball, brooker, murray etc because the midfield are chasing chickens, hudders field were winning the ball in the middle and spreading it wide as our flanks and strikers had come inside to get the ball that the middle 2 were not winning, it leaves you exposed to a wide ball,

win it in the first place in the middle of the park and if we keep shape they have no out let wide,

city were very bunched against huddersfield without even battling for the ball, brooker seen this and came in to try and win it.

thing with skuse is he needs to play along side a battler who rattles the cages of the opposition

and can as you say do the neat and tidy stuff and out let the the fowards same with noble

it's like the burnell and tommy doc thing but in reverse, they were to much alike and we had no

out let, skuse and noble are good out let footballers but lack the battling, all teams have got one,

battling ball winner and holder.

Well, I had a different view of the H'field game, I didn't think Brooker spend much time in midfield at all, and that nearly every attack H'field had was started by a long ball played under no pressure. There weren't loose balls in the middle of the park to win, they were on the edge of our box from knock downs or clearances. I meant the wingers and forwards should have been putting the opposition back four under pressure when they were trying to launch one not coming inside - when we did that it was successful.

Passion is overrated hmmm i feel roy keane, paul ince, gerry gow etc would disagree and if so

it explains why ashton gate is so shit in the stands as opposed to away games, but thats your opinion and

your entitled to it.

everyone needs a bit of Passion now and again and johnson is for ever saying it in his interviews

I'm not saying passion is bad, but on it's own it's of no use to man nor beast. All the players you mentioned as examples had masses of ability, and were intelligent players who were positionally sound. Scott Brown has passion, decent ability, but I just think he chases the ball around too much and gets caught out.

[Payney]

I'm not so sure about Skuse. I agree that you don't have to be diving in and tough tackling for 90mins, as a central midfield player, but I do think he is a bit lightweight, and if a battle ensues, would you want somebody like Skuse fighting your corner. I'm not so sure I would. However, willing to give the benefit of doubt and this Saturday, I shall study his play and perhaps, just perhaps I am being a little unfair on the chap.

However, GJ must consider his son a better player than Skuse/Brown/Russell otherwise there was absolutely no need to bring him on board.

[cider head]

Well, I had a different view of the H'field game, I didn't think Brooker spend much time in midfield at all, and that nearly every attack H'field had was started by a long ball played under no pressure. There weren't loose balls in the middle of the park to win, they were on the edge of our box from knock downs or clearances. I meant the wingers and forwards should have been putting the opposition back four under pressure when they were trying to launch one not coming inside - when we did that it was successful.

it's lack of shape and drifting that causes us problems and we do still have a problem getting foward with the

left hand side not linking up, woody is great at defending but he needs to get foward and help his left sided

midfielder as it's pulling them too deep for the ball and were to easy to mark going foward.

but yeah we are too deep at times and invite pressure.

[Godzilla]

huddersfield playing over midfield at times mabe, but it's bought on because of the center 2.

brooker was flying in to tackles in the middle, he had no need to be there and brings in to question the drifting thing, as they are all drifting to get the ball, brooker, murray etc because the midfield are chasing chickens, hudders field were winning the ball in the middle and spreading it wide as our flanks and strikers had come inside to get the ball that the middle 2 were not winning, it leaves you exposed to a wide ball,

win it in the first place in the middle of the park and if we keep shape they have no out let wide,

city were very bunched against huddersfield without even battling for the ball, brooker seen this and came in to try and win it.

thing with skuse is he needs to play along side a battler who rattles the cages of the opposition

and can as you say do the neat and tidy stuff and out let the the fowards same with noble

it's like the burnell and tommy doc thing but in reverse, they were to much alike and we had no

out let, skuse and noble are good out let footballers but lack the battling, all teams have got one,

battling ball winner and holder.

Passion is overrated hmmm i feel roy keane, paul ince, gerry gow etc would disagree and if so

it explains why ashton gate is so shit in the stands as opposed to away games, but thats your opinion and

your entitled to it.

everyone needs a bit of Passion now and again and johnson is for ever saying it in his interviews

But it's how you express that passion. It's 100% about demonstrating that passion in the right way; and sometimes that means standing out less, in order to do your job more effectively. You're not seriously telling me a player like Cole Skuse doesn't demonstrate as much passion as a player like Scott Brown? A young Bristol lad, who gets up and down for 90 minutes, giving 100% week in, week out, showing a far greater discipline and proffesionalism both on and off the pitch than Tommy Doherty ever did? Alex Russell is another who has shown exactly the same application since coming to the club. Those are the proffesionals I want at our football club. Those are the proffesionals that can take us to the next level.

You don't have to hit players hard to show passion. You don't have to run around like a headless chicken to show passion. Inevitably, those players that do tend to be the crowd favourites, because those are the ones that stand out.

However, it's not about 'looking busy', it's about doing the job for the team. I'm fairly sure Gary Johnson would agree that for the vast majority of the time, Skuse and Russell have been excellent in doing just that.

This isn't a dig at Scott Brown; far from it. As I say, I happen to think he has the physical and footballing attributes to become a very good player. But he has a lot to learn and understand about positional sense and awareness. It could be argued the only way he'll do that is by playing games, so if needs be, maybe a months loan to a league club would be an option. Providing that club could garauntee him a place in the middle, of course.

Either way, I'd sooner have a central midfield with two players who understand their jobs and have the discipline and quality to carry out their jobs, over a central midfield that consists of battlers who perhaps lack that understanding. And we know Skuse, Russell and Noble can do that job quite excellently... just look at the tail-end of last season! They're good players, and a midfield of Russell or Skuse next to Noble can work very well at this level.

[PhatWill]

You're not seriously telling me a player like Cole Skuse doesn't have as much passion as a player like Scott Brown? A young Bristol lad, who gets up and down for 90 minutes, giving 100% week in, week out, showing a far greater discipline and proffesionalism both on and off the pitch than Tommy Doherty ever did?

Life-long City fan Cole Skuse Vs Scott (massive Everton tattoo on arm) Brown

[cider head]

But it's how you express that passion. It's 100% about demonstrating that passion in the right way; and sometimes that means standing out less, in order to do your job more effectively. You're not seriously telling me a player like Cole Skuse doesn't demonstrate as much passion as a player like Scott Brown? A young Bristol lad, who gets up and down for 90 minutes, giving 100% week in, week out, showing a far greater discipline and proffesionalism both on and off the pitch than Tommy Doherty ever did? Alex Russell is another who has shown exactly the same application since coming to the club. Those are the proffesionals I want at our football club. Those are the proffesionals that can take us to the next level.

You don't have to hit players hard to show passion. You don't have to run around like a headless chicken to show passion. Inevitably, those players that do tend to be the crowd favourites, because those are the ones that stand out.

However, it's not about 'looking busy', it's about doing the job for the team. I'm fairly sure Gary Johnson would agree that for the vast majority of the time, Skuse and Russell have been excellent in doing just that.

This isn't a dig at Scott Brown; far from it. As I say, I happen to think he has the physical and footballing attributes to become a very good player. But he has a lot to learn and understand about positional sense and awareness. It could be argued the only way he'll do that is by playing games, so if needs be, maybe a months loan to a league club would be an option. Providing that club could garauntee him a place in the middle, of course.

Either way, I'd sooner have a central midfield with two players who understand their jobs and have the discipline and quality to carry out their jobs, over a central midfield that consists of battlers who perhaps lack that understanding. And we know Skuse, Russell and Noble can do that job quite excellently... just look at the tail-end of last season! They're good players, and a midfield of Russell or Skuse next to Noble can work very well at this level.

mabe passion is also being confused with leadership, skuse is a quiet lad and at times follows instead of

leading, not saying he has no passion he strikes me as still learning and looking to be led,

yes in time he will be a good player but it is still the fact we got to players in the team that are to alike in him and noble,

i'm not also saying we should kick the opposition 10 foot in the air but win tackles yes.

center midfield is a hard place to play and i'm not sure skuse can boss oppositions in this league,

can't argue about tommys off the field antics which really put pay to his future here but you can't

argue about him on the pitch and we are missing it and the close thing to him is brown,

thing with certain players off the pitch antics is some learn by it some don't, orr brown brooker have,

partridge and tommy doc i'm not so sure. skuse attitude yeah is good fair play to him but like i said

he needs to be in there with someone leading him, he does tend to look around with the ball with a sense

of ''where do i pass it to''.

one thing i will say whatever team starts saturday i wish them a win, thats all i want, just going by

the last 3 games i've sensed we have struggled in the middle and out wide,

bradford and huddersfield our our yard stick to better teams in this league to where we need to get to,

we need to improve and i just think browner or even russell should play their part.

[Wilksi]

Fair enough to what Godzilla and everyone else has to say, all I want to see is brown in that team, be it centre mid or left wing, I strongly belive that he will add that something extra that we have been missing so far this season.

You can go on till the cows come home about 4-4-2 3-5-2 etc etc but the fact of the matter is that this midfield is missing something, that something is a player not afraid to get stuck in there will allways give 120% and can pass, tackle and shoot with the best of them, Brown needs games and he needs games in the first team, we have seen in the past what he has given us and I'm sure we will see that again..

People are allowed thier opinions, its just a shame yours are all wrong!! ha ha ha

Cheshire Red, its got nowt to do with "internet fans" at all.

[Robbored]

Scott Brown imo is simply an 'up and downer' with average ability.He lacks vision,which as a midfielder is essential.He also lacks any real pace so wide on the wing is not really the place to play him.

He's a usefull squad player in a Division 1 outfit.

I can't agree with all those who see him as the answer to our midfield problems.

[cider head]

Scott Brown imo is simply an 'up and downer' with average ability.He lacks vision,which as a midfielder is essential.He also lacks any real pace so wide on the wing is not really the place to play him.

He's a usefull squad player in a Division 1 outfit.

I can't agree with all those who see him as the answer to our midfield problems.

we'll agree to disagree on this..

answer to our midfield problems, then we do have problems so skuse,

noble, murray cots is not the answer then?

but something needs sorting out in the middle.

i guess a few fans can see what the other clubs can see who are after him

[Topbuzz]

Scott Brown imo is simply an 'up and downer' with average ability.He lacks vision,which as a midfielder is essential.He also lacks any real pace so wide on the wing is not really the place to play him.

He's a usefull squad player in a Division 1 outfit.

I can't agree with all those who see him as the answer to our midfield problems.

He might not have the vision of Noble but if all the midfield was about was vision Jan Molby would of been the worlds greatest player

He has a superb engine heart of a lion and is definately in my eyes the man for the job alingside Noble or Johnson

[Robbored]

answer to our midfield problems, then we do have problems so skuse,

noble, murray cots is not the answer then?

but something needs sorting out in the middle.

You are forgetting the arrival of Johnson Junior.

Don't suprised if he starts on Saturday alongside Noble in the midfield.

One of the midfield problems has been the lack of 'bite' and the infrequency of the midfield getting ahead of the strikers.Johnson will provide both.According to the Yeovil fans he has tremedous stamina and is all over the pitch for 90mins.

[Wilksi]

Scott Brown imo is simply an 'up and downer' with average ability.He lacks vision,which as a midfielder is essential.He also lacks any real pace so wide on the wing is not really the place to play him.

He's a usefull squad player in a Division 1 outfit.

I can't agree with all those who see him as the answer to our midfield problems.

Why didnt casky stay again then?

As for your "vision" point...

Remind me who was the leading assit player last season?

No vision??? Its you without the vision....

[cider head]

He might not have the vision of Noble but if all the midfield was about was vision Jan Molby would of been the worlds greatest player

He has a superb engine heart of a lion and is definately in my eyes the man for the job alingside Noble or Johnson

there is the main point the guard for the play maker, ball gets won and played to play maker

for their vision to get the strikers and wide men working, this ain't happening causing

wide men and strikers to come deep for the ball, hense shape lost.

the back 4 gets invited pressure as their is no gaurd for them as 2 players with so called vision are trying

to play so called pretty football.

roy keane was no pretty footballer

[Robbored]

Why didnt casky stay again then?

As for your "vision" point...

Remind me who was the leading assit player last season?

No vision??? Its you without the vision....

Caskey didn't stay because he was unfit.

I don't know who the leading 'assist' player was last season but from your response its probably Brown.

Thats a suprise to me as Brown didn't seem to play that much.I would have had my money on Cotterill,Murray or maybe Skuse.

Also 'assist' stats don't actually mean that much - after all the final ball would have to have been played to the passer in the first place.

[Topbuzz]

.

Thats a suprise to me as Brown didn't seem to play that much.I would have had my money on Cotterill,Murray or maybe Skuse.

What is this fascination with Skuse i know a few people bang on about Browner but if Skuse is the hero we can all look to things aint good

[Wilksi]

Caskey didn't stay because he was unfit.

I don't know who the leading 'assist' player was last season but from your response its probably Brown.

Thats a suprise to me as Brown didn't seem to play that much.I would have had my money on Cotterill,Murray or maybe Skuse.

Also 'assist' stats don't actually mean that much - after all the final ball would have to have been played to the passer in the first place.

It is Brown with 9 assists.

If No one assists then we would score hardly any goals. All goals would have to come from individual genuis..

don't see that much of it down the gate to be honest, so we may as well be relegated now.

Ill take your money off you anytime you like!!

I honestly cant belive you think assits don't mean much.... I think you should think about what your saying.

[Robbored]

I honestly cant belive you think assits don't mean much.... I think you should think about what your saying.

Why don't you explain the significance of assists?

It obvious that I don't get it.

[Wilksi]

Why don't you explain the significance of assists?

It obvious that I don't get it.

If you don't know the basics of the game then I find it astoudning that you one, come to football, and two are chairman of the supporters club.

I have one question. Whats the aim of football?

[Topbuzz]

Whos the chairman of the supporters club???

[Robbored]

If you don't know the basics of the game then I find it astoudning that you one, come to football, and two are chairman of the supporters club.

I have one question. Whats the aim of football?

So you don't know the significance of assists then?

The significance of goalscorers is obvious but my point, that was lost on you is that the player who plays the final ball must have got the ball from somewhere.For example if Brown takes a corner and Carey heads it in that assist goes to Brown but that corner routine might have been worked on in training with any number of different players taking the corner.Therefore you could say it was a team goal.

Another example - if Noble pings a tremedous visionary pass through to Brown and Brown simply taps it sideways to Brooker who scores its Brown that gets the assist when it was Nobles ball that did the damage.

Thats why assist stats are not so important.

[twofingers]

Your noble example surely highlights that assists are important...... if it was a lesser player who hasn't such vision then the goal would not have occured.

am I being thick here??? isn't the assist just as important as the goal especially in cases where the striker just taps the ball in????????????

[Wilksi]

So you don't know the significance of assists then?

The significance of goalscorers is obvious but my point, that was lost on you is that the player who plays the final ball must have got the ball from somewhere.For example if Brown takes a corner and Carey heads it in that assist goes to Brown but that corner routine might have been worked on in training with any number of different players taking the corner.Therefore you could say it was a team goal.

Another example - if Noble pings a tremedous visionary pass through to Brown and Brown simply taps it sideways to Brooker who scores its Brown that gets the assist when it was Nobles ball that did the damage.

Thats why assist stats are not so important.

So your saying if Nobel had pinged the ball straight through using "vision" to Brooker and got the assist then this as well is not important?

My point which as you missed as well, was to make the assist you not only have to have some sort of skill but you also need "vision" to be able to see the pass as well as make it.

Your noble example surely highlights that assists are important...... if it was a lesser player who hasn't such vision then the goal would not have occured.

am I being thick here??? isn't the assist just as important as the goal especially in cases where the striker just taps the ball in????????????

I think what he is trying to say is, assists are important if any player apart from Brown makes them.

[SE23Red]

So you don't know the significance of assists then?

The significance of goalscorers is obvious but my point, that was lost on you is that the player who plays the final ball must have got the ball from somewhere.For example if Brown takes a corner and Carey heads it in that assist goes to Brown but that corner routine might have been worked on in training with any number of different players taking the corner.Therefore you could say it was a team goal.

Another example - if Noble pings a tremedous visionary pass through to Brown and Brown simply taps it sideways to Brooker who scores its Brown that gets the assist when it was Nobles ball that did the damage.

Thats why assist stats are not so important.

These are two very bad examples to use in an attempt to discredit assists as in both cases the goalscorer and the player with the assist seem to have a similar significance to the goal.

(1) If a corner routine is a team goal then the same can be said of taker and scorer.

(2) If Noble plays the visionary pass to Brown who taps it to Brooker who taps it in then both Brown and Brooker did the easy bit.