Otib Update:

[Jay]

As many of you know, keeping this forum ticking requires money. At the moment there are two easy methods in which people can help provide funds for the hosting costs.

1) - Use the 'Donate Now' button that is visible on the main menu. This will allow people to make a monetary donation of their choice. To date, very few have chosen to use this option. Please can we encourage people to make a donation (regardless of size) to help keep this forum running

2) - The shopping forum. There are a number of popular companies in this forum. If you like to buy CD's on-line, then please feel free to use a company like Play.com or amazon. If you buy computer related items then Crucial Memory or ebuyer are both great places to look. Also, if you use ebay, by accessing ebay via the link in this forum, each bid you make generates funds (funds are also generated by registering an account). To date, the shopping forum has generated more revenue than the Donate Now button but it's not nearly enough.

3) - Join the Fantasy Football competition via the button on the main menu screen of this forum.

A few months ago, we asked people to give their opinions regarding ways of funding this site. We took them on board and dealt with the most popular suggestions. It would seem that many did not like the idea of Google Ads within the forum, nor did many like the idea of banner ads at the top. Whilst these ideas are not popular, they do help generate funding and we may have to consider adding these if the current funding options don't generate enough. So far, together we have only just raised enough funding to cover this month & next month's fees for this forum. It's unlikely that the club will take the forum back & Clik do not wish to keep it if it can not be funded. PLEASE: If you feel that you can offer something via the Donate Now button or can get in to the habit of checking the Shopping Forum when looking to make an on-line purchase, you'd be helping support the forum you enjoy using.

Thanks

[phantom]

Are any of the costs supported by the ST ?

[Jay]

Are any of the costs supported by the ST ?

At the moment, there are no monetary costs supportered by the ST. It was discussed & considered as unfair to use ST funds generated from membership fees to pay for a service that not all members use. Therefore, the ST have taken on the responsibility to gain funds via other means such as donations, affiliate deals etc.

The only thing that could be considered a 'cost' supported by the ST is the large amount of voluntary man hours given by those that moderate & maintain this site.

[stevep38]

Just given £10.00, how much money each month does it take to secure the forum?

[Meh]

As stated in an earleir thread, I would be happy to contribute if :-

1. I had a vote in who the moderators are

2. What content should and should not be allowed

You want me to be a financial stakeholder, I want financial stakeholders rights.

A penny a post is the only way to go Not only will it generate revenue, it might slow down some of the crippling threads that have made this forum what it isn't anymore

[Lita For Congo]

Penny a post? Surely not haha. Subbers would become rightfully number one if that was the case.

[hilltop red]

Heres an idea, maybe banned posters could pay a fee, to be allowed to regain posting rights? would get rid of boring constant offenders and would keep those that honestley want to contribute to threads. Would cut out kids, and those looking for trouble.

Or bring in a Q and A section with players or club staff, whereby people pay a fee to otib to ask a question?

[cheshire_red]

Get some advertising on board and quick!!

I've already offered twice, I rarely offer thrice

[Milo]

Get some advertising on board and quick!!

I've already offered twice, I rarely offer thrice

Thanks for the reminder, cheshire_red, much appreciated. We may have to go that way very soon if the shopping forum and donate button don't pick up in the next couple of weeks. If we do, we'll be back in touch.

Regarding Neo's post, I embrace and endorse the sentiments behind stakeholder rights for stakeholders. What we're doing here is asking people who enjoy a service for free to make a contribution to helping the running costs of this site through donations or buying goods on-line via links on the shopping forum. That said, every member of the Trust gets a vote on who runs the Trust so becoming a member could be appropriate for someone who wants to be a stakeholder and cares about stakeholder rights. Democracy can work and by joining the Trust and influencing board positions you can then influence the Trust's input to moderating this site. However, as both Clik's backside and the Trust's are on the line if modding fails and it comes to court proceedings it won't just be the Trust board who would need to be convinced about changes to policy on allowable content or moderating styles.

I really like Hilltop red's suggestion for paying a fee / fine for banned users to come back. We'd never get it past the moderators however. Let's be honest, when they reluctantly have to ban posters they often get criticism and if a banned poster thought they might be being banned for financial gain for otib it'd get even more unpleasant for them.

I think Hilltop's got real potential with his second suggestion. Set up an on-line forum with a guest player, coach, manager, celebrity fan etc where for a small fee (£5 a year?) once a month a forum opens up for subscribers to post questions to that individual a few days in advance, the forum closes for that person to reply and once replied it gets made visible again with answers, all locked (as future replies from that person couldn't be expected). Definite potential there.

Suggestions are great, keep them coming. However, time is short because there are insufficient funds to support this site . Please also use the donate button, re-visit the shopping forums with links to many great suppliers and, if you've entered a team in fantasyleague.com or still plan to (there's a rogue gashead joined who's picked up 0 points after the weekend so you won't have to catch him up!) please sign up to the Trust F&E league (PM or email miles@bristolcityst.org.uk if you'd like more info on the F&E league).

[Rednready]

Without the Otib forum, would the ST footy forum support the same function. Subbers has been a little flat lately, just a dozen or so regular City football posters mostly posters who use Otib as well.

Otib is an excellant site compared to many other clubs, and if we don't wish to use subbers or the ST forum, then its cash flow time. Advertising is a must, sink or swim people.

[Nibor]

Just stick advertising on otherwise you'll have to make posts like this every few months, it's the only realistic way to get the regular cash in. Only make sure it's at either the top or the bottom so we can scroll it off and not down one side please!!

[twaters]

I agree with Nibor. At the top of the page the bcfc is very left justified and you could easily fit in one sponsors logo and link and be called the offical sponsor of the forum. That would be non invasive and raise some extra much needed cash.

[fRed]

I'm with Nibor also, a bit advertising doesn't look too bad. Example... http://www.vbforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

I wouldn't mind advertising. As has already been mentioned though it would be preferable if it were to be at top or the bottom so that it doesn't affect the site as much. As has already been mentioned there is space rigth of the Bristol City logo right at the top, and also more ads could be put to the right of where the donate now button, forum shop etc link is now.

[Guest]

Without the Otib forum, would the ST footy forum support the same function.

The ST forum is again hosted on our network. Infact its on a tiny little server on my desk.

Killing OTIB and moving to that board would not solve the solution, it'll be the same outcome.

The stark reality is, if the ST can't fund it - and personally I think they've done an excellent job so far - then this board is going to end up in the internet void. I just don't have the desire to try and make it work on my own anymore.

Maybe it'll take till OTIB dies for people to relise that I am deadly serious.

[Rednready]

The ST forum is again hosted on our network. Infact its on a tiny little server on my desk.

Killing OTIB and moving to that board would not solve the solution, it'll be the same outcome.

The stark reality is, if the ST can't fund it - and personally I think they've done an excellent job so far - then this board is going to end up in the internet void. I just don't have the desire to try and make it work on my own anymore.

Maybe it'll take till OTIB dies for people to relise that I am deadly serious.

God Almighty, I promised myself I would keep out of this business, but love of club .........

Tom has it right with his cliche "THE DEATH OF OTIB". Hear it loud and clear people, its about to happen so here's the simple solution.

1] Paid advertising on the site at cost per volume.

2] Costs per posts, as prescribed or voluntary.

3] Pensioners, Students and military veterans at a penny a post or more if offerred

4] All others at 5p per post, and thats cheap entertainment people, 20 posts in a week for just a pound.

I am a military veteran with a 100% disabled pension, and I am willing to kick this off and voluntarily pay 5p a post paid monthly, or unlimited posts at 50 pounds a year. You get the drift. I'me not getting paid to paint the picture, just get it done.

I don't agree with young Tom on a lot of topics but he's giving us one of the best sites in England, and I for one am willing to get the ball rolling. I am willing to contribute my 40+ years of management to the end wording, and 50 pounds for a years postings[ or as prescribed ]

Get it done people, its for the good of our club.

[Nibor]

Advertising on it's own should generate enough money.

[Ian M]

Advertising on it's own should generate enough money.

A few more people buying their products online from the shopping forum wouldn't hurt either.

[deadratinmycider]

Money per posts would definitely be the death of the forum. I would not

post on a forum that charged money per post and I doubt many others

would either.

We must all accept that it's time for adverts people.

[BigTone]

Paying per post will not work.

Advertising does.

I have a banner on the shopping forum (French Holidays) and it seems to be working well for me and the yearly charge I pay is well worth it.

[Fodbarmyarmy]

How about a penny a moan?

By the looks of things the forum would be minted by xmas!

I am happy to go with whatever the "experts" suggest on this

If I have to pay to post then so be it!

[Meh]

Paying per post will not work.

Why not?

If everybody put in some money and had "credit" that reduced per post.

People can then choose to post as often as they wish based on what they are prepared to afford.

A pound or two every few weeks doesn't seem quite so bad as a tenner every quarter or whatever.

At the end of the day, it will generate money and it will restrict the amount of complete kak on here that is the main cause for this forum's demise.

I have just logged in to read about last nights game. I should have the choice of 5 threads with well thought-out views as responses.

Instead there must be 50+ threads saying the same cr@p over and over with no replies. Basso was poor, I get it - time after time after firking time.

I am now going away from the forum as it is just too plain difficult to get a decent view as there is too much cr@p to find your way through. On the plus side, you could still have 1p from this post if required!!

[BigTone]

Why not?

If everybody put in some money and had "credit" that reduced per post.

People can then choose to post as often as they wish based on what they are prepared to afford.

A pound or two every few weeks doesn't seem quite so bad as a tenner every quarter or whatever.

At the end of the day, it will generate money and it will restrict the amount of complete kak on here that is the main cause for this forum's demise.

I have just logged in to read about last nights game. I should have the choice of 5 threads with well thought-out views as responses.

Instead there must be 50+ threads saying the same cr@p over and over with no replies. Basso was poor, I get it - time after time after firking time.

I am now going away from the forum as it is just too plain difficult to get a decent view as there is too much cr@p to find your way through. On the plus side, you could still have 1p from this post if required!!

If you introduce paying per post then the amount of people using the forum will decrease but yes an income will be generated. If the amount of Forum users decreases so are the chances of them using the Shopping Forum, therefore a source of income is lost.

The way forward IMO is to encourage more advertisers who will either pay a percentage of turnover to the forum (as some do) or pay an annual fee (which is what I do). IMO the yearly fee is better because you have the money up front rather than rely on sales. A bird in the hand so to speak.

If anyone out there has a business and wants to know if its worth advertising on here then the answer from one who does is a big YES.

To emthasise my point there have been 515482 replies to posts ove how many years(??). Lets say 2. The maths are 515482 x 1p = £5154.82 or £2577.41 per year or £214.78 per month. Thats peanuts compared to what advertising revenue will generate.

Another idea would be to see if any business's would be willing to sponsor the Forum, maybe on a monthly basis. Remember there are the bones of 6000 users on here, thats a lot of people.

Last but not least, payment to use the forum does not guarantee the end of cr@p posts.

[Dan C]

I'm with Nibor also, a bit advertising doesn't look too bad. Example... http://www.vbforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

I have to say I prefer something like this http://community.sigames.com/groupee/forums It is not invasive at all but your one was. I don't mind advertisements(wont ever use them myself because it's usually just crap) as long as they are not invasive.

[BigTone]

I have to say I prefer something like this http://community.sigames.com/groupee/forums It is not invasive at all but your one was. I don't mind advertisements(wont ever use them myself because it's usually just crap) as long as they are not invasive.

I see your point Dan but surely the one that you use in your signature is equally invasive. Why do you use it? To make people sit up and take notice would be the answer. Thats advertising, annoying as it can be.

[Meh]

If you introduce paying per post then the amount of people using the forum will decrease but yes an income will be generated. If the amount of Forum users decreases so are the chances of them using the Shopping Forum, therefore a source of income is lost.

The way forward IMO is to encourage more advertisers who will either pay a percentage of turnover to the forum (as some do) or pay an annual fee (which is what I do). IMO the yearly fee is better because you have the money up front rather than rely on sales. A bird in the hand so to speak.

If anyone out there has a business and wants to know if its worth advertising on here then the answer from one who does is a big YES.

To emthasise my point there have been 515482 replies to posts ove how many years(??). Lets say 2. The maths are 515482 x 1p = £5154.82 or £2577.41 per year or £214.78 per month. Thats peanuts compared to what advertising revenue will generate.

Another idea would be to see if any business's would be willing to sponsor the Forum, maybe on a monthly basis. Remember there are the bones of 6000 users on here, thats a lot of people.

Last but not least, payment to use the forum does not guarantee the end of cr@p posts.

Fair points, but, there needs to be a separate exercise done to restrict the amount of dross as this forum is a big turn-off for many.

There are so many posters disappearing never to re-surface and the decline of the overall quality here has been rapid.

If the negativity and cr@p continues, more and more will go elsewhere. This could end up a forum of adverts with illiterates trying to read them. Hey-ho.

[Nibor]

Fair points, but, there needs to be a separate exercise done to restrict the amount of dross as this forum is a big turn-off for many.

There are so many posters disappearing never to re-surface and the decline of the overall quality here has been rapid.

If the negativity and cr@p continues, more and more will go elsewhere. This could end up a forum of adverts with illiterates trying to read them. Hey-ho.

I don't care whether posts are negative/positive, whether I agree with them or not, but I hate the pointless one line of crap ones that people haven't even thought about and the unreadable txt spk we get sometimes.

It doesn't matter whether people can spell, whether they can type, or what their views are, as long as they can make themselves understood and are able to actually explain their points.

I don't post on TFF but I do read it sometimes and I wish otib was modded like that forum is - zero tolerance for inane gibberish.

[cheshire_red]

Obviously my figures could be wrong and I'm probably out of order to suggest them however:

An advertising link top and bottom on all the forums would have to pay: £125 top and £75 bottom per month for the idea of just top and bottom to work financially I'd have thought.

If either of the individuals who have shown an interest would be prepared to pay that then great, members should get first option. If not I can probably sell them to two reputable local businesses on perhaps 3 month initial contracts.

[Ian M]

I don't care whether posts are negative/positive, whether I agree with them or not, but I hate the pointless one line of crap ones that people haven't even thought about and the unreadable txt spk we get sometimes.

It doesn't matter whether people can spell, whether they can type, or what their views are, as long as they can make themselves understood and are able to actually explain their points.

I don't post on TFF but I do read it sometimes and I wish otib was modded like that forum is - zero tolerance for inane gibberish.

I have had the pleasure of being a moderator both on TFF and on here and the difference in audience is palpable.

Over on TFF (probably because it has always been that way) there is a lot of acceptance from the wide audience that moderating decisions are final. Yes you get the odd challenge from the person who has been moderated but they are told in no uncertain terms that if they don't like it they can **** off.

On here, the moderating team tries to be more relaxed but on the odd occasion that we have had to be more firm we get thread after thread complaining about our actions.

For instance, on TFF if a new user starts off using "txt spk" the first to point this out to them are the users. If it continues they get a one-time-only PM from the mods outlining that it isn't allowed. Continue and they are banned. OTIB isn't as strict as that, maybe we should be?

[cheshire_red]

On the net centre, and obviously it's no where near so busy and has only about 40-50 regular posters, I only get complaints when I delete the carp that some Plymuff Baaadiff and QPR and a few other clubs who are obsessed with us post.

Nice and easy.