Terracing

[WTFiGO!?!]

THE WHOLE THING IS LAUGHABLE

[Barry]

THE WHOLE THING IS LAUGHABLE

yes it is!

i think the powers that be will also not want to go back on their decisions as they may feel it might cause to much controversy or make them look weak.

this would make it even more pathetic

[WTFiGO!?!]

yes it is!

i think the powers that be will also not want to go back on their decisions as they may feel it might cause to much controversy or make them look weak.

this would make it even more pathetic

Steve did accuse us of only being so pro-East-End because we had the bit between our teeth and were rebellious antagonistic types, fighting on principle.

''Pot-kettle-black'' I thought.

Yes, I'm only so pro people having freedom of reasonable choice at the Football because I have pent up anger and a need for revolt.

I'm now also off on some extreme RSPCA march - damn them bloody Scientists !!

Scootered's off on some Gay Pride march down Brighton from what I gather, fair play to him too.

[Red Head]

You know where you can stick your terracing. Crowds are up since the awful days of terracing. More and more families are watchin football - why?

Because they can sit in comfort and get a good view of a footy match without being pushed, jostled, feet stamped on. I take my five and eight year old boys to football, what kind of shitty view would they get terracing? And if someone pushed from behind into them, crushing them when a goal is scored, what then? A right hook from me and then there would be trouble.

The only reasons I can take my boys to watch football is that they are safer and can watch footy in relevant comfort, not left at the front of a terrace where I can't give them my 100% attention.

Screw the terrace!

[Guest North Street]

You know where you can stick your terracing. Crowds are up since the awful days of terracing. More and more families are watchin football - why?

Because they can sit in comfort and get a good view of a footy match without being pushed, jostled, feet stamped on. I take my five and eight year old boys to football, what kind of shitty view would they get terracing? And if someone pushed from behind into them, crushing them when a goal is scored, what then? A right hook from me and then there would be trouble.

The only reasons I can take my boys to watch football is that they are safer and can watch footy in relevant comfort, not left at the front of a terrace where I can't give them my 100% attention.

Screw the terrace!

Not that it is ever going to happen here but some grounds even had terracing for families.

Crowds increased on the back of a successful national team in 1990 for the first time for decades since 66 and look what happened there.

[Guest ashtonyate]

You know where you can stick your terracing. Crowds are up since the awful days of terracing. More and more families are watchin football - why?

Because they can sit in comfort and get a good view of a footy match without being pushed, jostled, feet stamped on. I take my five and eight year old boys to football, what kind of shitty view would they get terracing? And if someone pushed from behind into them, crushing them when a goal is scored, what then? A right hook from me and then there would be trouble.

The only reasons I can take my boys to watch football is that they are safer and can watch footy in relevant comfort, not left at the front of a terrace where I can't give them my 100% attention.

Screw the terrace!

A lot of what you said is true I stood in the EE for years now I am older I would not like to stand for Two plus hours but I think there is a case for pay on the day part of the ground. I think that the Club are missing out on the person who suddenly decided to want to watch a game but its to late to book or to much hassle to do so. As from a policing point of view its easier to keep fans in check when they are sat down

[Flaxbourton Red]

You know where you can stick your terracing. Crowds are up since the awful days of terracing. More and more families are watchin football - why?

Because they can sit in comfort and get a good view of a footy match without being pushed, jostled, feet stamped on. I take my five and eight year old boys to football, what kind of shitty view would they get terracing? And if someone pushed from behind into them, crushing them when a goal is scored, what then? A right hook from me and then there would be trouble.

The only reasons I can take my boys to watch football is that they are safer and can watch footy in relevant comfort, not left at the front of a terrace where I can't give them my 100% attention.

Screw the terrace!

yes thats right in the days before the gentrification of football, we did not have stands for people to sit in if they wanted, everything changed in 1994, when the dolaman, ateyo and williams stands were built. Before that city fans were routinely squashed and women and children frightened for their lives. It was hell.

[22A]

Flaxbourton Red refers to the gentryfication of the game.

Following Hillsborough, Lord Chief Justice Taylor was appointed (by whom?) and his terms of reference (decided by whom?) were to investigate the disaster and then find ways of making football (but not cricket or rugby) grounds safer AND to bring about the <gentryfication of the game>. In other ways to deter the likes of you and me and replace us with families sat there and applauding politely at the end of the game.

Think there was that dreadful fire at Bradford City but wooden stands remain at some rugby and cricket grounds. My son is at Uni in Huddersfield where football and rugby league use the same stadium. Watch football and the stewards make you sit down and you are not permitted to drink alcohol within sight of the pitch. Watch the rugby two days later and the same stewards in the same block of the same stand permit you to stand up with a beer in your hand.

Rushden's ground was built after Hillsborough yet has terracing at the home end. Alright they're non league now, but only three years ago were in this div with City, so obviously standing IS permitted at our level! As I've posted before, City claim the Council will revoke the safety certificate if fans are permitted to stand at AGwhich means the game cannot be played. Either OUR club is lying to US, or else Bristol Council is taking a stance no other council appears to be taking. Imagine Liverpool council threatening to shut Anfield. I know I'm repeating earlier posts of mine, but come the local elections (since major issues such as defence, education, health etc are decided nationally) when a candidate knocks on your door asking for your vote; ask his/her opinion at standing in football grounds.

[Blagdon red]

I'd suggest that all those in favour of standing safely at football matches should stop talking about 'terraces' or a 'return to standing'. No politicians like to be seen to be going backwards, and 'terracing' is simply a far too emotive word for many.

What we should be seeking is ways to make standing at your seat safe. It is clear that many fans prefer to stand, yet current stands are not designed to enable safe standing at your seat. Legislation dictates only that all stadia in the top two divisions have to provide all-seater accommodation. The law does not stipulate that fans have to be seated at all times. This directive comes from the Secretary of State via the Football Licensing Authority. In other words, it does not require a change in the law to permit standing at football grounds, it just requires a change of heart by the Secretary of State.

If the campaign became one not of "give us back our terraces, you bullies!", but "as thousands of fans stand in seated areas at dozens of grounds every week, let's work together to make this safe", then it might have a chance of success. Club stewards, for one, would then have a much easier life!

The pictures below show areas at 3 German stadia where fans are able to stand safely in front of seats. Each row has a handrail, so the possibility of a crowd surging (or people falling over seats as seen last night in the Spurs game) is totally ruled out. Standing at such seats is clearly safer than (a) standing on old terraces and, more importantly, than (b) standing at seats in current-style stands.

It is important that the people who are currently against the concept of safe standing at football are shown pictures like these so that they understand what is being proposed. It is not a return to swelling masses on the Kop, Stretford End, Leppings Lane or even the East End. It is relatively small areas (perhaps no more than 10% of the stadium capacity) being converted to this style of accommodation. This would enable those fans that want to stand to do so in safety and those that want to sit to do so anywhere else in the remaining 90% of the stadium, safe in the knowledge that fans will not be standing up in front of them or their children.

If you are in favour of this style of safe standing, I suggest you let as many people as possible see pictures like these ... if they see what is being proposed by campaigns like Stand Up, Sit Down, I'm sure many - if not all - of their reservations will be overcome.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I'd suggest that all those in favour of standing safely at football matches should stop talking about 'terraces' or a 'return to standing'. No politicians like to be seen to be going backwards, and 'terracing' is simply a far too emotive word for many.

What we should be seeking is ways to make standing at your seat safe. It is clear that many fans prefer to stand, yet current stands are not designed to enable safe standing at your seat. Legislation dictates only that all stadia in the top two divisions have to provide all-seater accommodation. The law does not stipulate that fans have to be seated at all times. This directive comes from the Secretary of State via the Football Licensing Authority. In other words, it does not require a change in the law to permit standing at football grounds, it just requires a change of heart by the Secretary of State.

If the campaign became one not of "give us back our terraces, you bullies!", but "as thousands of fans stand in seated areas at dozens of grounds every week, let's work together to make this safe", then it might have a chance of success. Club stewards, for one, would then have a much easier life!

The pictures below show areas at 3 German stadia where fans are able to stand safely in front of seats. Each row has a handrail, so the possibility of a crowd surging (or people falling over seats as seen last night in the Spurs game) is totally ruled out. Standing at such seats is clearly safer than (a) standing on old terraces and, more importantly, than (b) standing at seats in current-style stands.

It is important that the people who are currently against the concept of safe standing at football are shown pictures like these so that they understand what is being proposed. It is not a return to swelling masses on the Kop, Stretford End, Leppings Lane or even the East End. It is relatively small areas (perhaps no more than 10% of the stadium capacity) being converted to this style of accommodation. This would enable those fans that want to stand to do so in safety and those that want to sit to do so anywhere else in the remaining 90% of the stadium, safe in the knowledge that fans will not be standing up in front of them or their children.

If you are in favour of this style of safe standing, I suggest you let as many people as possible see pictures like these ... if they see what is being proposed by campaigns like Stand Up, Sit Down, I'm sure many - if not all - of their reservations will be overcome.

You raise some very valid points.

As with any heated issue and it's campaigning inevitably an ''us verses them'' dynamic is inadvertantly created. Personal pride can sometimes become more important than the issue itself.

All I as a pro-standing extremist want is the choice to stand at Football. It is in itself an innocent enough request, there must be a way.

[Collis]

Crowds are up since the awful days of terracing.

Wrong.

From the perspective of BCFC if you look at a sample of attendances during the 1965/66 season you will see that crowds have actually declined since the days of terracing.

Manchester City 1 - 1 L-2 H 25723 (Thanks to City stats!)

Naturally, terracing allowed us to cram more fans in but we were still averaging an estimate of over 15,000 in division 2!

Even as a reasonably young football supporter it amazes me why people would want to sit down at a football game unless your an OAP or disabled. Even when I was much younger I always preferred away games where I could stand.

[Red Head]

Wrong.

From the perspective of BCFC if you look at a sample of attendances during the 1965/66 season you will see that crowds have actually declined since the days of terracing.

Manchester City 1 - 1 L-2 H 25723 (Thanks to City stats!)

Naturally, terracing allowed us to cram more fans in but we were still averaging an estimate of over 15,000 in division 2!

Even as a reasonably young football supporter it amazes me why people would want to sit down at a football game unless your an OAP or disabled. Even when I was much younger I always preferred away games where I could stand.

When you were younger.

What about if your 65+ with a dodgy leg, still like to stand for 2 hours then?

1965/66 season? How much football violence was around then? I'm talking of the decline of the 70's 80's when violence was rife on the terraces.

Seating has been the main stay of getting the fans back to the grounds since then, along with Jerry Keys and Andy Gray!

Although I can't see a reason why you shouldn't have your own shed with a roof over it, go back to smoking as well?

[WTFiGO!?!]

Wrong.

From the perspective of BCFC if you look at a sample of attendances during the 1965/66 season you will see that crowds have actually declined since the days of terracing.

Manchester City 1 - 1 L-2 H 25723 (Thanks to City stats!)

Naturally, terracing allowed us to cram more fans in but we were still averaging an estimate of over 15,000 in division 2!

Even as a reasonably young football supporter it amazes me why people would want to sit down at a football game unless your an OAP or disabled. Even when I was much younger I always preferred away games where I could stand.

Collis, RedTop is amazed how people would prefer to stand in the East End with it's poorer facility and inferior view.

That matters not either.

What amazes me most of all is that in the current day with it's self proclaimed pride in 'modern thinking' choice is not afforded and all are not catered for in their reasonable demands.

'Modern thinking' is code phrase for 'PC tyranny and social control' it seems to me.

If people wanna sit let them sit and if people wanna stand let them stand....... and I'm the one who takes abuse for having a liberal disposition !!

[Collis]

When you were younger.

What about if your 65+ with a dodgy leg, still like to stand for 2 hours then?

If you read my post you will note that I made exception to OAP's. If terracing did come back there would be sections in the ground to accommodate these kind of people. (including families in your case)

1965/66 season? How much football violence was around then? I'm talking of the decline of the 70's 80's when violence was rife on the terraces.

Times have changed, read some of my earlier posts and you will find evidence that backs this up. There is certain league stadiums that still have terracing and they have been to full capacity with minimal crowd problems. Have you heard of any?

Seating has been the main stay of getting the fans back to the grounds since then, along with Jerry Keys and Andy Gray!

Although I can't see a reason why you shouldn't have your own shed with a roof over it, go back to smoking as well?

Then why are you trying to hijack this thread which has been mainly used to post constructive views on this issue?

[Collis]

Collis, RedTop is amazed how people would prefer to stand in the East End with it's poorer facility and inferior view.

That matters not either.

What amazes me most of all is that in the current day with it's self proclaimed pride in 'modern thinking' choice is not afforded and all are not catered for in their reasonable demands.

'Modern thinking' is code phrase for 'PC tyranny and social control' it seems to me.

If people wanna sit let them sit and if people wanna stand let them stand....... and I'm the one who takes abuse for having a liberal disposition !!

I can't help but think that BCFC is purposely driving away fans who want to stand and sing in order to replace their seats with families or executive tweed boys.

Look at the hassle the lads in the G Block have dealt with this season. No nonsense, kicking fans out for being passionate and trying to get behind their team.

Liverpool fans consistently stand week in week out in the Kop and stewards make little or no attempt to make them sit down probably for the fear of losing the supurb support they are famous for.

[Red Head]

Then why are you trying to hijack this thread which has been mainly used to post constructive views on this issue?

[Guest North Street]

When you were younger.

What about if your 65+ with a dodgy leg, still like to stand for 2 hours then?

1965/66 season? How much football violence was around then? I'm talking of the decline of the 70's 80's when violence was rife on the terraces.

Seating has been the main stay of getting the fans back to the grounds since then, along with Jerry Keys and Andy Gray!

Although I can't see a reason why you shouldn't have your own shed with a roof over it, go back to smoking as well?

Gates were already in serious decline from the 1940's onwards.

[Red Head]

Then why are you trying to hijack this thread which has been mainly used to post constructive views on this issue?

Hijack? What do you mean?

Only constructive crititcism allowed? tut tut....

Collis, to be fair, I have no objection to what you want, or any of the East end claims. I personally think you should have a section in the East End seated or unseated. But this kind of thread is now boring me, can't you take it somewhere esle?

I know, lets meet and have a drink in the Dolman bar on Saturday at half time, and chat about what a great goal Stevie Brooker has just scored.

Heck, we could talk about what a glorious day it's been in the sun!

[Barry]

You know where you can stick your terracing. Crowds are up since the awful days of terracing. More and more families are watchin football - why?

Because they can sit in comfort and get a good view of a footy match without being pushed, jostled, feet stamped on. I take my five and eight year old boys to football, what kind of shitty view would they get terracing? And if someone pushed from behind into them, crushing them when a goal is scored, what then? A right hook from me and then there would be trouble.

The only reasons I can take my boys to watch football is that they are safer and can watch footy in relevant comfort, not left at the front of a terrace where I can't give them my 100% attention.

Screw the terrace!

i think you miss the point of campaigners. They are not trying to bring back vast amounts of terracing, but enough for people to have the CHOICE of whether they sit and stand. There would still be more than plenty of room for people to sit where they may feel 'safer'. That would be their choice.

i just fail to see why you would cast of this argument without realising it doesn't have to affect those people who want to remain seated.

"screw the terrace" is a bold statement, and if terraces are made in a better way, like in Germany, you will find this statement hard to justify

[Collis]

Hijack? What do you mean?

Only constructive crititcism allowed? tut tut....

Collis, to be fair, I have no objection to what you want, or any of the East end claims. I personally think you should have a section in the East End seated or unseated. But this kind of thread is now boring me, can't you take it somewhere esle?

This thread has nothing to do with the EE. It is about the possibility of bringing back terracing in football stadiums! I'm pretty sure this thread is pretty unique on the forum and is a good debating point!

I know, lets meet and have a drink in the Dolman bar on Saturday at half time, and chat about what a great goal Stevie Brooker has just scored.

Heck, we could talk about what a glorious day it's been in the sun!

And I am sat in the garden enjoying it. I would meet you for a drink at half time but I will be standing in the EE whcih I take it you wont be.

[bringbacktherobin]

Having terracing doesn't effect if there is going to be trouble or not.

That was the Spurs game, i somehow don't think that seat is meant to be half way up in the air. Just because i want to stand at football and sing doesnt make me a hooligan along with many many others at football matches.

Somewhere along the line, the passion of football fans has given the police etc the thought your going to be violent.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I can't help but think that BCFC is purposely driving away fans who want to stand and sing in order to replace their seats with families or executive tweed boys.

Look at the hassle the lads in the G Block have dealt with this season. No nonsense, kicking fans out for being passionate and trying to get behind their team.

Liverpool fans consistently stand week in week out in the Kop and stewards make little or no attempt to make them sit down probably for the fear of losing the supurb support they are famous for.

It is certainly true that folk I've dragged along in the past have thoroughly enjoyed their experiance and were mad for coming back (when in the EE) and were bored stiff with the alternative option that the Club offer's and have understandably not returned.

I thought though that this thread (like the alliteration there?) was dedicated to safe standing not the politics of BCFC.

For the record I get the impression that Steve (some of his advisers I have reservations about) is beginning to not only listen but hear and understand the message from our element of The People. Hostile 'opponents' will rub him up the wrong way and are detrimental. Sermon endeth here.

Mad for Swansea?

East, East Eastenders !!

[Red Head]

Going to golf now but i'll be sat in the sunny Dolman on Saturday, then up to the baccy factory to celebrate a City win. Happy Easter.

[Collis]

It is certainly true that folk I've dragged along in the past have thoroughly enjoyed their experiance and were mad for coming back (when in the EE) and were bored stiff with the alternative option that the Club offer's and have understandably not returned.

Too true.

I thought though that this thread (like the alliteration there?) was dedicated to safe standing not the politics of BCFC.

I think in a way its related. If safe standing was introduced would this club follow?

For the record I get the impression that Steve (some of his advisers I have reservations about) is beginning to not only listen but hear and understand the message from our element of The People. Hostile 'opponents' will rub him up the wrong way and are detrimental. Sermon endeth here.

Mad for Swansea?

East, East Eastenders !!

Can't wait.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Going to golf now but i'll be sat in the sunny Dolman on Saturday, then up to the baccy factory to celebrate a City win. Happy Easter.

Thanks for your contribution.

I too didn't give a **** whether Red Robin the other day was displeased with the great Bristol public and their non sell-out at that point in time for Swansea but allowed myself to get involved anyway.

That won't be happening agian.

Enjoy the Golf and I'm glad you will now allow people to discuss a burning issue to them without the input of cheap self-entertainers or fisherman.

fao Collis: I think if safe standing was suddenly to be incoperated into 'modern thinking' and a national trend was to follow this Club would follow suit sharpish.

If I were No.1 gov'nor at BCFC I'd be pestering higher authoreties and trying to pioneer Football into the future, as it is I will just have to wait and put faith into the sitdownstandup activests. If I weren't such a lazy (and poor, unorganised bastard) I would have got up for that Wycombe game protest the other season, I'd certainly be on for some rallies if organised.

[Flaxbourton Red]

If I were No.1 gov'nor at BCFC I'd be pestering higher authoreties and trying to pioneer Football into the future, as it is I will just have to wait and put faith into the sitdownstandup activests. If I weren't such a lazy (and poor, unorganised bastard) I would have got up for that Wycombe game protest the other season, I'd certainly be on for some rallies if organised.

The game needs pioneering chairmen and women to take on the small minds of people such as Richard Caborn. Bristol city should be leading the way in fighting for the interests of all fans. Just because you have an all seater stadium doesn't mean everybody is going to sit down.

The current forced mix of those that want to stand with those that want to sit is in nobodies interest. Those that want to sit should be able to do so without people constantly standing up in thier way. Likewise those that want to stand should be able to do so without be criminalised. Stewards should be there for pointing people in the right direction, towards standing or seated area; and not having to pretend they are in the A Team.

[Blagdon red]

The game needs pioneering chairmen and women to take on the small minds of people such as Richard Caborn. Bristol city should be leading the way in fighting for the interests of all fans. Just because you have an all seater stadium doesn't mean everybody is going to sit down.

The current forced mix of those that want to stand with those that want to sit is in nobodies interest. Those that want to sit should be able to do so without people constantly standing up in thier way. Likewise those that want to stand should be able to do so without be criminalised. Stewards should be there for pointing people in the right direction, towards standing or seated area; and not having to pretend they are in the A Team.

Unfortunately Mr Caborn is one of the major obstacles. He was already MP for Sheffield Central at the time of the Hillsborough disaster. There is therefore very little chance that he'll ever agree to any form of standing at football - even if he was persuaded it was safe, it would be politically impossible for him as MP for the Hillsborough area to be the man that "brought back terracing".

That doesn't mean that the campaign is hopeless - just that nothing is likely to be resolved while he remains Sports Minister.

(The best chance is probably to get David Cameron onside - as he has already hinted he'd look at safe standing - and hope the Tories get in next time around)

[Dave L]

and hope the Tories get in next time around)

I'm all for sfae standing, but that's far too high a price to pay. :noexpression:

[22A]

Just heard on the radio about the Davis Cup Tennis at the NEC. English fans sat at the back can see very little as the 200 Dutch fans are standing and cheering on their players throughout the game. The NEC is a purpose built indoor seated arena not a sports ground that was hurridly converted. It seems irrespective of the sport being played many (admittedly not all) fans prefer gasp, shock horror.......

The Choice To Sit Or Stand.

[Barry]

Just heard on the radio about the Davis Cup Tennis at the NEC. English fans sat at the back can see very little as the 200 Dutch fans are standing and cheering on their players throughout the game. The NEC is a purpose built indoor seated arena not a sports ground that was hurridly converted. It seems irrespective of the sport being played many (admittedly not all) fans prefer gasp, shock horror.......

The Choice To Sit Or Stand.

and by giving the people the choice by having safe standing areas, those people who wish to stand would not obstruct the view of those who wish to remain seated.

surely everyone is a winner in this situation!