C.a.t.s.

[Maesknoll Red]

It certainly seems excessive, look at the price Plymouth fans are paying to get to Hull & back...

http://www.pafc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/AwayT...1074972,00.html

[Barrs Court Red]

It certainly seems excessive, look at the price Plymouth fans are paying to get to Hull & back...

http://www.pafc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/AwayT...1074972,00.html

Their running costs are low mind you..

[Nibor]

OK i will look harder, but don't be sucked in though, i don't see how the club can ensure its runs on a non profit basis unless they have a number crucher working there full time to check.

I'm sorry but i've never read such utter 5h1t in my life.

The word 'non profit' is a marketing tool used by the most ruthless of businessmen, it really means 'the customer is a ####' and we should seek to rip him off.

Becuase they use the word non profit, you instantly think, Bargin! They instantly think SUCKER!

There are plenty of organisations run on a non profit basis that truly are run without the aim of making profit. Housing agencies, internet standards bodies, third world development organisations, and numerous regulatory bodies for example.

Often this is done retrospectively so that if an organisation makes a profit that is simply factored into the pricing for the next year. Sometimes that money is reinvested. The key point is that it isn't paid out to shareholders.

And if we we're all being naive and thinking "Bargain" then why's this thread asking questions?

[Nibor]

Without going into any detail, it appears that something isn't quite right.

Question is, is the club ripping us off or is it Peter Carrol? WhistleHappy has the right idea, we won't find out unless we get a quote.

[CiderHider]

There are plenty of organisations run on a non profit basis that truly are run without the aim of making profit. Housing agencies, internet standards bodies, third world development organisations, and numerous regulatory bodies for example.

Often this is done retrospectively so that if an organisation makes a profit that is simply factored into the pricing for the next year. Sometimes that money is reinvested. The key point is that it isn't paid out to shareholders.

And if we we're all being naive and thinking "Bargain" then why's this thread asking questions?

Fair do's

I understand with respect to the above mentioned NGO's etc, these organizations are the real defination of non profit orgs, and the ones that stand to lose credibility when profit making businesses use peoples better nature to their advantage.

[cheshire_red]

I have a quote, did it the other way round Blackpool to Bristol, arriving Bristol 2pm. Leaving Bristol at 6pm, they assure me one driver only is required.

£820 plus any coach parking costs. 53 seater inc toilet.

£15:47 each.

[cheshire_red]

Yes and that is a one-off, not a minimum of 23 trips and 2,3,4 + coaches each time. Don't they also provide the official coach?

[Nibor]

I have a quote, did it the other way round Blackpool to Bristol, arriving Bristol 2pm. Leaving Bristol at 6pm, they assure me one driver only is required.

£820 plus any coach parking costs. 53 seater inc toilet.

£15:47 each.

Two things that potentially add to that cost are if the club has to pay VAT and that the club has to account for one of the coaches not being full. The club's price still seems a little high.

[italian dave]

Firstly, the site talks about the drivers hours rules, and lots above on this thread about how they work, but are they any different to what they were last February? If my memory serves, the cost then was under £20?

Secondly, I'd like to ask CS whether CATS makes a surplus. Technically, I think, profits are what complanies make, and what is shared out amongst shareholders by way of dividends. What organisations that aren't companies make, and what 'not for profit' organisations (eg charities) make are surpluses. Playing with words, I know, but something it seems to me CS is very good at.

Thirdly, it was mentioned a long way back in this thread that this is surely something that the Fans Forum or the Supporters Trust ought to be taking up for us, and disappointing that no-ones so far come on to say they will.

[cheshire_red]

Two things that potentially add to that cost are if the club has to pay VAT and that the club has to account for one of the coaches not being full. The club's price still seems a little high.

VAT is included in the £820.

[Bristol Boy]

Takes deep breath.

Having been involved with major fleets of vehicles and seen the law change regarding The Working Time Directive and Tachograph (Drivers Hours) I can tell you that it's minefield of legislation.

In terms of pay that isn't fantastic and a breakdown driver who works all through the night earns about £6.75ph plus a small one off amount for call out (£10).If he goes on Tacho he'll earn about two thirds of what he's earning now but if he doesn't he's only allowed to work in a 60 mile radius of his depot! That's minor to what these guys do driving for what they call "Hire & Reward."

There is a simple way around this for those who need the service and are discontent-Contact a coach company and organise your own-If you can do that cheaper then the club, with all its financial clout and buying power, has some serious questions to answer.

I'm sure if you can do it for £20/21 you'll have enough takers from contacts on here and at the gate.

If you can't do it cheaper on a like for like basis-then CS's comments and the £27 are justified.

[Bristol Boy]

Thirdly, it was mentioned a long way back in this thread that this is surely something that the Fans Forum or the Supporters Trust ought to be taking up for us, and disappointing that no-ones so far come on to say they will.

One major problem is the City Fans themselves-The Millwall fiasco proved it when the vast majority accepted the offer of an alternative coach ticket for a similar game or £10 cash, without a whimper.It should have been a full cash refund-but the trouble is people moan and groan, but don't follow through with threats of legal action of get together to complain properly.

I agree that the ST should take situations like that up as should the SC if their members are involved.

As I've said-if it can be proven that the coaches are over priced then the club has serious questions to answer.

[PhatWill]

I have a quote, did it the other way round Blackpool to Bristol, arriving Bristol 2pm. Leaving Bristol at 6pm, they assure me one driver only is required.

£820 plus any coach parking costs. 53 seater inc toilet.

£15:47 each.

Did you say you were going to a football match?

I believe the insurance is a lot higher for the coach company if you are. They'd add that to the final cost.

[collier]

Takes deep breath.

Having been involved with major fleets of vehicles and seen the law change regarding The Working Time Directive and Tachograph (Drivers Hours) I can tell you that it's minefield of legislation.

In terms of pay that isn't fantastic and a breakdown driver who works all through the night earns about £6.75ph plus a small one off amount for call out (£10).If he goes on Tacho he'll earn about two thirds of what he's earning now but if he doesn't he's only allowed to work in a 60 mile radius of his depot! That's minor to what these guys do driving for what they call "Hire & Reward."

There is a simple way around this for those who need the service and are discontent-Contact a coach company and organise your own-If you can do that cheaper then the club, with all its financial clout and buying power, has some serious questions to answer.

I'm sure if you can do it for £20/21 you'll have enough takers from contacts on here and at the gate.

If you can't do it cheaper on a like for like basis-then CS's comments and the £27 are justified.

so would you agree that if city were to take 5 coaches away to blackpool then the total costs of coaches, drivers, fuel and any extras included would amount to nearly 7 thousand pounds based on the fact that city say that it doesnt make any money on the trip??

[NickJ]

There is a simple way around this for those who need the service and are discontent-Contact a coach company and organise your own-If you can do that cheaper then the club, with all its financial clout and buying power, has some serious questions to answer.

I'm sure if you can do it for £20/21 you'll have enough takers from contacts on here and at the gate.

Sounds a good solution BB, but in my experience doesnt happen.

I already said earlier in this thread I ran a coach to Middlesboro last season for £900 (inc VAT and 2 drivers), and that was leaving Bristol 9am and arriving back 4am the following day. Our price per person was lower than CATS and had the luxury of card tables etc.

I filled the coach, but not one of them came off this forum, despite my advertising it on here a few times.

We had a good day, too...

CATS trip to Blackpool at £27 per head equates to £1400. I can book a coach for Blackpool at £800 max, so there appears to be a difference of £600 in the official site's "CATS is non-profit making" claim. Or perhaps a mark-up of near 100% doesnt constitute profit making in Mr Sexstones scheme of things?

[RedLionLad]

No. To be honest I don't need too.

Of course they will have spin to justify the hike just like they did with the season tickets, and of course you're going to get individuals on here who believe what there told but common sense tells you they are just on the make again. Sextoy & Co needs to remember football isnt like a normal business and if he keeps pissing of the fans off it will come back to bite him on the arse in the long term.

I advise everyone who normally travels on coaches to find another mode of transport if possible and just don't use the service. Thats the only way you can make a stand and not allow the club to take the micheal.

I don't mean to be picky...but it's AE in Michael

[foghornred]

Nice of the club to respond to our complaints but I don't think that they have answered all of our questions.

If C.A.T.S is non profit making then fair enough, but i think that their overheads need looking at !

This now makes driving or train a far more competitive alternative.

[Seend Red]

I have a quote, did it the other way round Blackpool to Bristol, arriving Bristol 2pm. Leaving Bristol at 6pm, they assure me one driver only is required.

£820 plus any coach parking costs. 53 seater inc toilet.

£15:47 each.

So we've established 2 driver are not required by law unless the trip is more than 10 hours, you can hire a coach between Bristol & Blackpool for £820, yet the club hire them for £1'484?? We are being told by a man who I personally don't trust that CAT's make no profit.

If this is the case the coach company's are making a killing and the club should be looking for better quotes so the fans get a better deal. In short the only way you can stop it is not to use the service.

Sextone must really think we're all stupid with his constant spin and bullshit excuses. I'm really starting to hate that side of the club. This is the whole problem with Sextone, he's a business man and doesnt see any further than maximising his profit margins at cost of pissing off loyal football supporters. It will come back to bite him on the arse .

[Denilson]

Perhaps we could arrange own coachs on this forum?

[devonrobin]

Is it something the ST/SC could be involved in ?

If not, maybe they should be taking this up with the club this week.

if not we could start a car share system.

i drive to every away on a sat as my 2 mates cant drive so ive got room for 2

and it wouldnt cost 27 quid

[SyntaxtheRed]

One cost that people seem to be overlooking is that of the staff to man the ticket office and phones, not sure what this cost would be but could add a couple of quid per head to the ticket cost. I would agree that the Coaches probably load the prices as a Football outing given increased likelyhood of vandalism to the coaches etc.

[Seend Red]

One cost that people seem to be overlooking is that of the staff to man the ticket office and phones, not sure what this cost would be but could add a couple of quid per head to the ticket cost. I would agree that the Coaches probably load the prices as a Football outing given increased likelyhood of vandalism to the coaches etc.

Coaches have gone up £9 on last season because they now have someone answering the phone in the ticket office :noexpression:

[Guest DanC]

Good job me and my mate decided to drive to away games this season. What a rip off! Absolutely disgraceful. It only cost £21 to get to Carlisle for christ sake!

And yet there was two drivers on each coach for Carlisle.

[SyntaxtheRed]

Coaches have gone up £9 on last season because they now have someone answering the phone in the ticket office :noexpression:

certainley not - however when people are comparing quotes they have had privatley to the cats prices, these costs haven't been taken into account. By taking them into account it does reduce the 'surplus'.

[lukejones2]

certainley not - however when people are comparing quotes they have had privatley to the cats prices, these costs haven't been taken into account. By taking them into account it does reduce the 'surplus'.

Indeed, as does the insurance that CATS would have and perhaps a proportion of CS and others' wages which could be attributed to CATS.

This stuff all existed last year however, and the increase still seems extremely high to me though, which is not particularly surprising given the number of other areas the club have increased prices this season with no regard for supporters or loyalty.

[freezer]

Perhaps the increase is to supply the drivers with Polish versions of Tom Tom, thereby ensuring that a fiasco of 'Millwallian' proportions doesn't happen again.

On that point, I left it too late to claim my voucher or refund from that game so I'll get it back by travelling with my mates by car this season.

Good job Bristol City's Public Disaster Relations Department.

[CodeRed]

Indeed, as does the insurance that CATS would have and perhaps a proportion of CS and others' wages which could be attributed to CATS.

This stuff all existed last year however, and the increase still seems extremely high to me though, which is not particularly surprising given the number of other areas the club have increased prices this season with no regard for supporters or loyalty.

If you are in agreement with the general feeling that the charges for the Blackpool coach are well over what is fair and reasonable - and that supporters deserve a detailed explaination (rather than a bit of "off the cuff" flannel from CS) will you - as a leading member of the ST - ask the club for an explaination when the next opportunity arises?

Otherwise I can see the club continuing with this line for Preston, Burnley, Scunny, Hull, Norwich,Ipswich etc

I would have thought the club would be encouraging as many fans as possible to attend these away games to support the team, sadly our Ch.Exec seems to have completely missed the point here and can only see the ££ sign as he continues to grab every shabby opportunity to make a quick buck.

as others have said (many times) - the naked greed and the desparate attempt to overcharge fans at every possible opportunity (S/T 36%, Coach up 43%, charge for friendlies, change to profit making Premium rate phone number to book tickets) has - I'm sorry to say taken the feel good factor - that Gary Johnson worked so hard to create - right out of this club!

[Bristol Boy]

Is it something the ST/SC could be involved in ?

If not, maybe they should be taking this up with the club this week.

They should and perhaps fans could e mail SL

One cost that people seem to be overlooking is that of the staff to man the ticket office and phones, not sure what this cost would be but could add a couple of quid per head to the ticket cost. I would agree that the Coaches probably load the prices as a Football outing given increased likelyhood of vandalism to the coaches etc.

I can't remember the last time I heard about a football coach being vandalised, never mind a CATS Coach.CS & Co are on overhead of The Stadium Co and therefore should have no impact on CATS on a not for profit basis.

CS seems to quick to take information from people like Carrolls (Millwall Drivers didn't get lost) at face value and I'd like to know who organises these coaches and agrees the contracts because if Cheshire Red & Nick J can book a one off far cheaper by making a few phone calls it doesn't say much for Citys Supply Chain Management.

[freezer]

Is it something the ST/SC could be involved in ?

If not, maybe they should be taking this up with the club this week.

Perhaps they should, that's if they actually do represent the fans of course.

Maybe the SC could put something on 'the notice board, in the corridor, by the toilets'. That should advertise it to at least 4000 fans, it would put the fear of GOD into CS.

Or is this sort of 'flippin' boring'? Looking for 'official' organisations to speak-up for and liase with the people they represent.

Finally got it! It's 'Bristol City Purporters Club'. They only pretend to do what it says on the tin.

[tompo]

Is it something the ST/SC could be involved in ?

If not, maybe they should be taking this up with the club this week.

Already in hand plus lots of other issues to raise.