Steve Brooker?

[dezgimed]

I know, and it pains me to say that on this occasion i think GJ's wrong

A 3 year deal does indicate he wanted Brooker to progress the club into the championship. But if we finish top ten, then i don't think Brooker would progress us to the next level in the way Elliot, Sproule, McIndoe can.

I'm sorry but in your example, disregarding Elliott I doubt McIndoe and/or Sproule are able to propel us up into the Premiership. They've been consistently solid and competent at this level.

don't look at them as awsome because we've watched League 1 dross for the last 9 years.

They're handy players, but Premiership bound?

Very unlikely. Brooker falls under that category too, but at least give him a crack at the whip first.

[Henry]

I get the impression you're deliberately talking out of your arse just to get a rise today.

Brooker was a far better player than Trundle at the last level, the City fan that would have swapped him for Trundle would have been one in a hundred.

If he gets fit he will definitely succeed at this level, no doubt about it.

Sorry Nibor, I agree with you 99% of the time and you are a top poster.

But I'm with Redhyde on this one, I would have swapped Brooker with Trundle in League One, based of ability and goals scored.

Although Brooks says he is a target man, I actually think he'll do better in this league when the ball is played to his feet around the box, where he does very good.

I just don't think Brooker could boss defenders like Howard and the like can, he just isnt that strong or that good in the air. But saying that, I'm looking forward to when Brooker is back in the squad.

[Nibor]

I know, and it pains me to say that on this occasion i think GJ's wrong

Well, yes but then you think Enoch's a great lone striker with pace ability and physique who will do well in the Championship...

[dezgimed]

Strikers score goals..

You want to tell Kevin Davies, Carlton Cole, Kevin Kilbane, Lee Peacock, Dean Ashton, Mark Viduka, Claudio Pizzaro, Andre Voronin etc x 1000 they're out of a job or shall I?

Not heard of 'Target man' ?

Type of player to chip in with 8-15 goals a season maybe a la Brooks, but goalscoring?

Thats not what they're on the pitch for.

[Nibor]

But I'm with Redhyde on this one, I would have swapped Brooker with Trundle in League One, based of ability and goals scored.

Well, if you go back before last season I think you'd have been well in the minority. Of course Trundle has more skill, but I think he's a different sort of player - one we're not getting the best out of because we're playing him in a role that means he's facing away from the goal most of the time.

Now if Brooker was doing that with Trundle playing off him and running at players I think we'd see the best of both of them, and then you've got Byfield when you need a bit pace down the middle or a poacher.

Although Brooks says he is a target man, I actually think he'll do better in this league when the ball is played to his feet around the box, where he does very good.

I just don't think Brooker could boss defenders like Howard and the like can, he just isnt that strong or that good in the air. But saying that, I'm looking forward to when Brooker is back in the squad.

Target man doesn't necessarily mean high balls to me, it can just as well be chest height or on the floor. The point is they're who the ball forward is usually aimed at and their job is to retain the ball until they've got support. Brooker has always done that well both in the air and on the deck using his strength in the games I've watched him. Remember that Howard has 5 years on Brooker and that role is typically one where a player gets better with age.

[dezgimed]

Well, if you go back before last season I think you'd have been well in the minority. Of course Trundle has more skill, but I think he's a different sort of player - one we're not getting the best out of because we're playing him in a role that means he's facing away from the goal most of the time.

Now if Brooker was doing that with Trundle playing off him and running at players I think we'd see the best of both of them, and then you've got Byfield when you need a bit pace down the middle or a poacher.

Target man doesn't necessarily mean high balls to me, it can just as well be chest height or on the floor. The point is they're who the ball forward is usually aimed at and their job is to retain the ball until they've got support. Brooker has always done that well both in the air and on the deck using his strength in the games I've watched him. Remember that Howard has 5 years on Brooker and that role is typically one where a player gets better with age.

By the by Nibor, how many onions has Billy Sharp bagged in the old Championship this season?

[bucksred]

You want to tell Kevin Davies, Carlton Cole, Kevin Kilbane, Lee Peacock, Dean Ashton, Mark Viduka, Claudio Pizzaro, Andre Voronin etc x 1000 they're out of a job or shall I?

Not heard of 'Target man' ?

Type of player to chip in with 8-15 goals a season maybe a la Brooks, but goalscoring?

Thats not what they're on the pitch for.

I nearly agreed with you there, but then you mentioned that c**k, Leapy. And I wouldnt agree with Viduka either.

You also assume Brooker would get the chances he did in League 1. Against far better defenders in this one. Thats what I have considerable doubts about. Will he?

[Redhyde]

As for i have not seen the past?

I promise you i have...........

No i mean, you don't see past the fact we're 2nd and are delighted at that.

Whereas i'm also delighted we're second but feel the need to pick at that in order to see where we can improve.

[Alex_BCFC]

I would rather have a fit and firing Brooker than Trundle right now. But having both fully fit and firing would be fantastic!

Brooker was our best player and single handedly dragged us up the table when we were struggling. People have short memories on here...And to bring up his goal scoring record isn't exactly proof he is worse than Trundle. I would say he contributes more than Trundle in all round play.

[Nibor]

Fair shout, the season before. Last season? Naaah, don't think so.The team were just as good without him during the run in how many goals did he get? He is a striker, I'm led to beleive. They are there to score. If they don't, they aint performing, simple. If the rest of our team who are chipping goals in left right and centre, suddenly dry up, where do the goals come from?

I wouldn't argue that his contribution wasn't good enough last season, but we played him before he had recovered from injury leading to him being out again. He never really got a run in the side despite making about 30 appearances, they were one here, two there etc. The two seasons before that he scored at a great rate.

Have been known to make mistakes, a bit of a human fault really. No one is infallible.

Qualified medics are far less fallible than internet guessers though.

you what? strikers score goals, thats why they are there and Trundle did, last season, and probably the season before too.

The last time he was properly fit he scored as consistently as Trundle did. I'm not suggesting a half fit Brooker should be in the side, I'm suggesting that if he's properly recovered he will be an assett to us and I find it hard to understand why anyone who's watched the last three seasons can really think otherwise. Put it this way, if Byfield (whose injury history is as bad as Brooker's) takes a knock... are you happy to fall back on Enoch or Jevons? Maybe Sproule or Murray?

Players take longer to come back as they get older, and this problem of Brookers is hardly a new one. I have nothing against the bloke, but I have serious doubts if he can ever acheive a significant impact in the Championship, particularly the longer the season goes on before he arrives back in.

It's a niggly problem that until this summer we never gave a chance to heal properly. He's only 26 not 36.

And I seem to remember you defended another player who failed to have an impact either. Sometimes it don't work out, sometimes it does.

My thoughts on that were always quite simple - he was better than the player we were playing instead and we might as well get something out of the money he was costing. It's irrelevant to the Brooker question.

cold light of day, BCFC may not be able to risk keeping him on, which is the point of it all

What's the risk? We have no option but to keep him.

[Henry]

Well, if you go back before last season I think you'd have been well in the minority.

Well I think a few years ago in League One alot of people would have perfered Trundle who was banging them in rather then Brooks. But I respect your opinion so I'll agree to disagree there.

Of course Trundle has more skill, but I think he's a different sort of player - one we're not getting the best out of because we're playing him in a role that means he's facing away from the goal most of the time.

But we were talking about League One. Its too early to say whether Trundle will be a success and same for Brooker. Although they are different players, I think they will both do a similar job in the end, where they both score a modest amount of goals (8-12) but create and lay off alot more for their team mates.

Now if Brooker was doing that with Trundle playing off him and running at players I think we'd see the best of both of them, and then you've got Byfield when you need a bit pace down the middle or a poacher.

Agreed and I hope that happens after Christmas because we will need it to stay in the top 6.

Target man doesn't necessarily mean high balls to me, it can just as well be chest height or on the floor. The point is they're who the ball forward is usually aimed at and their job is to retain the ball until they've got support. Brooker has always done that well both in the air and on the deck using his strength in the games I've watched him. Remember that Howard has 5 years on Brooker and that role is typically one where a player gets better with age.

Agree that it isnt just in the air but he still doesnt have the strength like Howard or Henderson. Whilst I like Brooker, I'd perfer if we had signed Henderson or Howard who we were both chasing around the time we signed Brooker.

[Nibor]

By the by Nibor, how many onions has Billy Sharp bagged in the old Championship this season?

He hasn't even been given a league start yet - wait and see.

[Belfastcityfan]

I would rather have a fit and firing Brooker than Trundle right now. But having both fully fit and firing would be fantastic!

Brooker was our best player and single handedly dragged us up the table when we were struggling. People have short memories on here...And to bring up his goal scoring record isn't exactly proof he is worse than Trundle. I would say he contributes more than Trundle in all round play.

I would second that Alex. A fit Brooker and firing would be my first choice up front. I would put him in front of Trundle and Byfield.

Brooker works hard and brings more to the game than Trundle. Yes Trundle has the skill, but his work rate can let him down. Byfield works his socks off and is our first line of defence.

Give me a front two of Brooks and Byfield any time, with Trundle waiting in the wings

[Dolman Block B]

No i mean, you don't see past the fact we're 2nd and are delighted at that.

Whereas i'm also delighted we're second but feel the need to pick at that in order to see where we can improve.

Good lad, you debate, I'm off to catch some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Belfastcityfan]

He hasn't even been given a league start yet - wait and see.

Sharp will come good.

[dezgimed]

If people need reminding (which I believe they do) of Steves ability, perhaps view the footage of the final game of the season at Sheffield Wednesday 04/05.

Wednesday in the play offs, torn apart by Steve, scoring 2 good goals, showing pace, power, finishing ability.

Same Wednesday that got promoted and comfortably survived.

[Belfastcityfan]

If people need reminding (which I believe they do) of Steves ability, perhaps view the footage of the final game of the season at Sheffield Wednesday 04/05.

Wednesday in the play offs, torn apart by Steve, scoring 2 good goals, showing pace, power, finishing ability.

Same Wednesday that got promoted and comfortably survived.

I remember that! The guys got class, I hope he still has it after this long layoff

[Redhyde]

Well, yes but then you think Enoch's a great lone striker with pace ability and physique who will do well in the Championship...

What were you saying about cheap point scoring Nibor?

"Stewart is a great player and would be a fantastic addition to any team in our division".- Nibor

Hmm, we can all drag players up who posters have got things wrong on can't we? Beneath a poster and man of your quality.

GJ thought that too btw otherwise he wouldn't have got the start the first few games. Hey i still think Enoch can play in this league effectively once he gets his arse in gear, so we'll wait and judge once we see Enoch again. To see if he sorts himself out.

[Nibor]

What were you saying about cheap point scoring Nibor?

You finally got the point then.

Perhaps you could see your way to getting the point about quotes out of context too.

[Redhyde]

You finally got the point then.

Perhaps you could see your way to getting the point about quotes out of context too.

Oh dear, dragging things across from other threads. Attack the post not the poster dude

[Nibor]

Oh dear, dragging things across from other threads. Attack the post not the poster dude

Don't complain about it when you've done it first dude

Bloody students these days have no character.

[Belfastcityfan]

Do you two want me to book you both into the Ibis? You can feel the sexual tension on here.

[Nibor]

Do you two want me to book you both into the Ibis? You can feel the sexual tension on here.

The Ibis is a dump pretty much everywhere in the world, no thanks.

[dezgimed]

Bloody students these days have no character.

Oi!

[Guest SarahB]

Brooks will fire us to the premiership. Just you lot wait and see.

[Gaffer]

Apart from the bickering this has been an excellent thread with good points argued and counter argued.

I haven't posted since #29 but have read this thread with interest. In the style of Peter Jones of Dragons Deg fame, 'here's where i am'.

I believe that a fit and firing Brooker would be a huge asset to this team, and a partnership with Lee Trundle would allow them both to play their prefered roles. I think GJ see's the potential in Brooker too and that's why he is the single most frustating player in the squad. As Brooks plays a different role to our other strikers, we'd have to play a slightly different way to accomodate him, this is very hard to do if your star striker is injured quite a lot! Therefore, i am in agreement with the 'pro brooker' mob, he could cut it at this level.

However, i have huge doubts on whether or not he'll ever play for us again. As that saddens me. I'd rate his chances at 20% but i would be delighted if he does play. Good luck Steve.

[Redhyde]

Don't complain about it when you've done it first dude

I won't if you don't dude

Do you two want me to book you both into the Ibis? You can feel the sexual tension on here.

The Ibis is a dump pretty much everywhere in the world, no thanks.

Me and Nibor are classier than that.

Bloody students these days have no character.

Oi!

To be fair, i totally agree with Nibor on that.

Although i'd add that adults these days don't really know how to argue without swearing or insulting people.

[Ian M]

That's an incredible statement to make. Huge amounts of league one strikers don't cut it in the championship. Even ones with great records. Brooker doesn't even have that. He doesn't have the physical or technical attributes in him to match this level. It's not arse talking but my observations backed by reason.

"Target men" need to be huge monsters in this league. A Horsfield, a Hartson, a Howard. Brooker's weak and small by comparison. Is he technically great? Not in my opinion. Does he score enough goals? Factually no. His best performances have come when he's next to a target man too what does that say about him?

So IMO he's not good enough to either hold the ball up or score the goals. We've enough height and physicality in the team already.

Why do you think he will succeed? What have you seen to mark him out as a championship player? Don't just say i'm wrong, say why you think i'm wrong.

Would would Brooker bring to the team we don't already have?

With apologies for intruding on your argument with Nibor I would have said Brooker's arguably better seasons (from a goals return perspective) have come at Vale alongside McPhee and at City alongside Lita. Now I'm sure you'll agree neither McPhee nor Lita are regarded by many as "target men".

I'd actually just say his best performances come when he's next to a half decent striker and how many of them have we had since Lita was sold?

I'll certainly be interested to see how he gets on alongside Trundle & Byfield should he fully recover from his latest op.

[CGS RED]

I won't if you don't dude

Me and Nibor are classier than that.

To be fair, i totally agree with Nibor on that.

Although i'd add that adults these days don't really know how to argue without swearing or insulting people.

Adults of any period find trite arguements less and less appealing as years accumulate and swearing is unneccessary. This topic was interesting and now ......zzzzzz time to go.

[giles_23_bcfc]

Steve is a better player than Trundle and Byfield put together. Can either of them hold up the ball like Steve does? NO!!!

have you been to any of the last 3 or 4 city games?! That's what Trundle has done the best! Back to the rubber room i think...