belfastrobin Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I've already told you I understand, I was asking you a different question...Given a choice between Byfield or Trundle I feel it's a complete toss up because neither has scored many and any slight extra workrate Byfield has is countered by Trundle's ability outside the box but we're not limited to that choice. We've played 442 in the majority of our games this season and got some outstanding results.Which Games have we played and got outstanding results?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fRed Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think Byfield and Myrie-Williams would work well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfastcityfan Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 The only attitude I have is one that finds how you're making hundreds of posts slating Trundle without watching him play and without backing up any of those "opinions" and on the other hand having a pop at anyone who criticises Lee Johnson to be both hugely hypocritical and very amusing.It seems that you're upset just because I asked you what the reasons were for your slating of Trundle's workrate and stamina. I guess I hit a nerve, sorry about that chap, I thought that part of debating an opinion was trying to understand the reasons for it but I guess that's harder when someone isn't willing to explain them.I was willing to debate my opinions until you started making your childish comments Nibor. I enjoy a good discussion and I willing to debate anything I post. But I won't do for the reasons you do it, to score points. That is why I can't be bothered to explain them to you.If you had have asked me my reasons behind my posts maturely, like most do on here do, then our discussion would be a little more productive now wouldn't it Lee Johnson is a different matter, I feel he is slated for the fact he is the managers son. Thats not just my opinion, but the opinion others on this forum. When you can act more maturely, feel free to debate with me sometime in the future. If you can't, stop wasting my time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Which Games have we played and got outstanding results??The first 9 league games of the season after which we were third in the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I was willing to debate my opinions until you started making your childish comments Nibor. I enjoy a good discussion and I willing to debate anything I post. But I won't do for the reasons you do it, to score points. That is why I can't be bothered to explain them to you.If you had have asked me my reasons behind my posts maturely, like most do on here do, then our discussion would be a little more productive now wouldn't it Lee Johnson is a different matter, I feel he is slated for the fact he is the managers son. Thats not just my opinion, but the opinion others on this forum. When you can act more maturely, feel free to debate with me sometime in the future. If you can't, stop wasting my timeHahaha, and take your ball with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastrobin Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 The first 9 league games of the season after which we were third in the table.Did we not play trundle up front with Murray or Spoule in behind playing Nobles role for the first 9 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfastcityfan Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 The contradiction lies where you suggest that Noble, who's the very definition of unfit should come in, while advocating that Trundle is dropped for said reason. Because you haven't managed to articulate your reasons for this properly we ensued a pointless argument where you'd probably agree with Nibor if you just thought about what he's actually asking/suggesting.I incidentally agree that Byfield should be picked as the one up front and that we should play 4-5-1. Not that he works any more than LT23 it's just his style stretches play more and that he covers more ground because he's physically quicker. But then of course you can turn it around and go for putting him on the bench as an impact player for the same reasons.I don't really understand why Trundle hasn't been asked/perhaps isn't capable of performing the "Noble" attacking midfield role.That is what I have said previusly, I feel Trundle could play Nobles role if he(Noble) were not fit. It might suit him, and bring out the best from him. Ifit worked, Noble couldcome in for LJ.I tottally agree with your comments on Byfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Did we not play trundle up front with Murray or Spoule in behind playing Nobles role for the first 9 games?No. We played Trundle pretty much on his own with a winger wandering about next to him doing little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfastcityfan Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Hahaha, and take your ball with you.Nah, I'll leave it with you. Add it to the others......you talk plenty of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Nah, I'll leave it with you. Add it to the others......you talk plenty of it Well I thought I'd better make a childish comment just to give your excuses some credibility.Seriously, the only reason you won't explain why you think Trundle is unfit and lazy is because you don't have any basis for thinking that.I'd never criticise someone for not being able to watch the games, but I think it's wrong to continually slate a player when you can't possibly have watched enough of him to fairly have an opinion like that on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfastcityfan Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well I thought I'd better make a childish comment just to give your excuses some credibility.Seriously, the only reason you won't explain why you think Trundle is unfit and lazy is because you don't have any basis for thinking that.I'd never criticise someone for not being able to watch the games, but I think it's wrong to continually slate a player when you can't possibly have watched enough of him to fairly have an opinion like that on him.Nibor, I did not slate him, I said that he was underperforming and that his position in the starting 11 was not set in stone. When you pay a million for a striker I personally would expect a better return goals wise.I never said he was unfit and lazy, I thought that Byfield was the fitter of the two and suited the 4411 formation more that LT.If I "hated" LT that much, why would I suggest playing him in Nobles role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfastcityfan Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Off to bed, nite folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Nibor, I did not slate him, I said that he was underperforming and that his position in the starting 11 was not set in stone. When you pay a million for a striker I personally would expect a better return goals wise.I never said he was unfit and lazy, I thought that Byfield was the fitter of the two and suited the 4411 formation more that LT.If I "hated" LT that much, why would I suggest playing him in Nobles role?BFC you post negative things again and again about Trundle.In this thread alone (and there are plenty of other) you've said: - he's never been the fittest- he hasn't got the stamina - he's ineffective- he doesn't contribute as much as ByfieldAnd these aren't really fair criticisms if you can't, through no fault of your own, see him play - are they?We're not talking about goals here - easy things to measure, can you really get an impression about those subjective things from match reports and highlights?That's why I call it slating and tried to get you to explain why you feel like that about Trundle - and by the way I've not said you hate him either.To be honest I agree with you that plenty of people criticise LJ unfairly due to him being the manager's son and I've said so in other posts, but I think you're criticising Trundle unfairly because Gary Johnson and Steve Lansdown decided to pay £1m for him. He never got a say in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 BFC you post negative things again and again about Trundle.In this thread alone (and there are plenty of other) you've said: - he's never been the fittest- he hasn't got the stamina - he's ineffective- he doesn't contribute as much as ByfieldAnd these aren't really fair criticisms if you can't, through no fault of your own, see him play - are they?Well Nibor I have seen Trundle play plenty this this season and by and large I would agree with BFCs' comments.The only thing I would not necessarily agree with is the point about Trundles fitness.Trundle goes awol in matches far to often for my liking.He occaisionally pulls off a good pass or a couple of tricks but apart from that he does little else.How often to we see Trundle win a tackle or rob an opposition player? Byfield does it regularly - possibly because he's far quicker than Trundle.Last week at Wolves I thought Trundle worked far harder than in any other game that I've seen him this season and I came on here and said so, but on Tuesday night he was back to his old self - ineffective. It was no surprise that he got subbed.The point of this thread was to see what views other fans have on Trundle or Noble starting today.Some have said they would like to see them both start - well imo, Trundle doesn't have the pace to react to someone as quick as Noble is with his vision.A pacy front man is therefore essential to get quickly into space where Noble has the skill to find them.The only way I can see Noble and Trundle in the same starting 11 is if Noble drops back into midfield with Byfield alonside Trundle.The problem with that is that, imo your're not getting the best out of Noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastrobin Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well Nibor I have seen Trundle play plenty this this season and by and large I would agree with BFCs' comments.The only thing I would not necessarily agree with is the point about Trundles fitness.Trundles goes awol in matches far to often for my liking.He occaisionally pulls off a good pass or a couple of tricks but apart from that he does little else.How often to we see Trundle win a tackle or rob an opposition player? Byfield does it regularly - possibly because he's far quicker than Trundle.Last week at Wolves I thought Trundle worked far harder than in any other game that I've seen him this season and I came on here and said so, but on Tuesday night he was back to his old self - ineffective. It was no surprise that he got subbed.The point of this thread was to see what views other fans have on Trundle or Noble starting today.Some have said they would like to see them both start - well imo, Trundle doesn't have the pace to react to someone as quick as Noble is with his vision.A pacy front man is therefore essential to get quickly into space where Noble has the skill to find them.The only way I can see Noble and Trundle in the same starting 11 is if Noble drops back into midfield with Byfield alonside Trundle.The problem with that is that, imo your're not getting the best out of Noble.So Nibor it Looks like you can tell if a player is playing well or not just by listening to the radio and watching on tv then. Otherwise no one would agree with BCF's opinions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well Nibor I have seen Trundle play plenty this this season and by and large I would agree with BFCs' comments.The only thing I would not necessarily agree with is the point about Trundles fitness.Trundle goes awol in matches far to often for my liking.He occaisionally pulls off a good pass or a couple of tricks but apart from that he does little else.How often to we see Trundle win a tackle or rob an opposition player? Byfield does it regularly - possibly because he's far quicker than Trundle.Last week at Wolves I thought Trundle worked far harder than in any other game that I've seen him this season and I came on here and said so, but on Tuesday night he was back to his old self - ineffective. It was no surprise that he got subbed.The point of this thread was to see what views other fans have on Trundle or Noble starting today.Some have said they would like to see them both start - well imo, Trundle doesn't have the pace to react to someone as quick as Noble is with his vision.A pacy front man is therefore essential to get quickly into space where Noble has the skill to find them.The only way I can see Noble and Trundle in the same starting 11 is if Noble drops back into midfield with Byfield alonside Trundle.The problem with that is that, imo your're not getting the best out of Noble.I thought Byfield was very ineffective on Tuesday and the manager got it wrong by bringing off Trundle. In a tight game Trunds is a matchwinner and i thought deserved to stay on.. The problem with Noble is he cant play a full game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I thought Byfield was very ineffective on Tuesday and the manager got it wrong by bringing off Trundle. In a tight game Trunds is a matchwinner and i thought deserved to stay on.. The problem with Noble is he cant play a full game.Well - as has been said many times - its all about opinions.We both watched the same game and yet saw it differently.Trundle deserved to be subbed imo.As to your comment about Noble 'he cant play a full game' I would say one word - yet! Give him time to get match fit.After all he was out for months so its no surprise that he starts to flag before 90mins is in sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunley Legend Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 When Noble gets himself fully match fit then he should be the first name on the teamsheet in my view. He has the best "footballing brain" at the club and the players to make way will be one of Byfield, Trundle or Lee Johnson (nothing to do with being the manager's son - he is a good player but is not in Noble's class in my opinion). It is also noticable to me that Johnson's game steps up at least 20% when Noble is in alongside him. It would also be interesting to see how Trundle fares alongside Noble.Today is difficult - do we play 5 in midfield and get as many minutes as we can out of Noble, knowing that we will keep possession well whilst he is on the pitch or do we stick with two up front, try and hold out/edge in front over 60-70 minutes and then use Noble to retain possession in the vital part of the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo87 Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I agree that Johnson looks a better player when Nobes plays, not only because of Nobles class but because there are more numbers in midfield meaning LJ can drop deep to pick the ball up off of the back 4 and dictate play from there.But not sure we need LJ to do this away from home?I think eventually we may look to play 4-4-2 with Noble in midfield, providing he is fit enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 So Nibor it Looks like you can tell if a player is playing well or not just by listening to the radio and watching on tv then. Otherwise no one would agree with BCF's opinionsNot really. You'll get different opinions from people who've seen the game, that's football. It's still unfair to slate someone when you've not even seen them play. You simply can't get an accurate idea of a player's fitness or workrate from the radio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well Nibor I have seen Trundle play plenty this this season and by and large I would agree with BFCs' comments.The only thing I would not necessarily agree with is the point about Trundles fitness.Trundle goes awol in matches far to often for my liking.He occaisionally pulls off a good pass or a couple of tricks but apart from that he does little else.How often to we see Trundle win a tackle or rob an opposition player? Byfield does it regularly - possibly because he's far quicker than Trundle.Last week at Wolves I thought Trundle worked far harder than in any other game that I've seen him this season and I came on here and said so, but on Tuesday night he was back to his old self - ineffective. It was no surprise that he got subbed.The point of this thread was to see what views other fans have on Trundle or Noble starting today.Some have said they would like to see them both start - well imo, Trundle doesn't have the pace to react to someone as quick as Noble is with his vision.A pacy front man is therefore essential to get quickly into space where Noble has the skill to find them.The only way I can see Noble and Trundle in the same starting 11 is if Noble drops back into midfield with Byfield alonside Trundle.The problem with that is that, imo your're not getting the best out of Noble.Well Robbo on Tuesday night I thought Trundle worked very hard, much more so than Byfield and was unlucky to get subbed. Others have posted the same. Byfield is definitely quicker but Trundle comes out wide in support an awful lot.I am not sure I agree that you need pace to play onto Noble passes. In fact if you watch Trundle he makes many, many runs that Johnson doesn't see until too late whereas I think Noble probably would. I agree they probably won't be in the same side until Noble plays in central midfield though and that's a pity to my mind.I think Noble plays just as well in central midfield as he does in behind the front two, it's just that he can't yet because he's nowhere near fit enough. He didn't really look fully fit to me for much of the second half of last season, only the final couple of games, so I do wonder how long it will be before he can get over the 60-70 minute mark with anything left in the tank.The other disadvantage of playing him in behind the front man is that his shooting is on the same level as Liam Fontaine's. Trundle is far better than that at striking a ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well Nibor, it seems that Gary Johnson agrees with me.Noble starts ahead of Trundle at Ipswich today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Controller Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think Gj will go with Noble ahead of Trundle, Byfield as lone striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well Nibor, it seems that Gary Johnson agrees with me.Noble starts ahead of Trundle at Ipswich today.Not really surprising as I said earlier especially given the opposition's record.I just hope he lasts a decent proportion of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob k Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Well we done quite well today with the wonder kid Noble and Byfield, Trundle is better than both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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