Back SL time

[reddoc]

1 minute ago, Neo said:

No need for awestruck idolisation, just a level of respect for what he has put in to sport in thugs great part of the world.

I dont subscribe to the hobby bit though - you don't throw away good money for any passing interest no matter how much you got.

And yes our input each season is much more in terms of percentage of wealth but all of our combined input does not keep a football club going so we need a sugar daddy type whether we like it or not.

I certainly throw away money on passing interests, so we'll beg to differ there. I'd also suggest there's a lot of hobby ownership going on in football nowadays explaining the majority of club ownership in the Prem. If I decide to respect SL , it will because of what this club eventually achieves on the pitch, and therefore for now I'll pass on that one.

[glastonred]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

We still have nearly have a season left and another week in the transfer window. Sacking ANY manager at this very moment, makes no sense at all. I still want to give LJ time to turn it around, as he and the rest of the backroom staff have developed over the last year. I don't want to see all that broken up again, as I see what we have as the strongest ever.

If we were in the relegation zone but still in with a fighting chance of staying up, I'd still give the manager until at least 5 games left.

Changing managers causes more damage than good long term.

The fact we are getting good players coming here, even though we are struggling, speaks a thousand words in my book.

People keep blaming LJ...I'm pointing my finger more at certain experienced Pros in the team, who aren't pulling their weight imo.

This echoes my thoughts exactly. Couldn't have said it better. Keep the faith.

[The goal is that way]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

We don't do anything different tactically or formation wise, to what we were doing when we were winning mate. If we were getting hammered and the manager losing the plot like SC did, then I'd get it, but we aren't.

We've attracted some good players recently in the transfer window...what message does that send out to them if we sack LJ now.

If he continues to lose and we really do look like we are going down with say five games to go, but within safety of staying up, then I'd then say yes do it. But only if we have found someone who can work with what we are creating. Someone who isn't going to come in and rip it all up again.

C'mon mate...I know it's a results game, but we aren't being outplayed and not doing anything any different to any other team in this league.

We need to unite and fight...not give up every time the going gets tough.

A sacking culture, just sends out a message of failure, and a fan base constantly bleating when the going gets tough, makes us look like losers...and as they sing back at us...'you only sing when you're winning.'

I'd rather fight with my back to the wall...than bleat and moan and complain all the time.

Away with the fairies 

[spudski]

9 hours ago, Olé said:

@spudski I think we're giving each other a wide berth (!! - I also know what it's like to have to pick and choose threads to maintain sanity) but as it happens what you've said in this thread about sacking managers, is what I was saying the last 4 times a City manager was sacked. More or less word for word. I was still complaining that we don't give managers time when we appointed Cotterill - I wanted to see a strategy really given a chance to succeed (and thank god I was wrong on SOD). I can't imagine anyone disagrees with your sentiment on stability.

The question with hindsight is have we got the right person to execute the long term strategy?

As you know better than me, the answer appears to be yes in many crucial places - behind the scenes, public PR (no one can deny LJ has until recently been a very media friendly face for the club), and incentive to youth development. Unfortunately, on the pitch it hasn't looked like we have the right person, and I'd go a step further - it's not about avoiding relegation, or losing 8 games on the spin - it's the manner we play the game and deteriorating quality of players.

I know we don't agree on that but I just felt the need to point out that I would and always have supported stability of the managerial position, if it wasn't for the season-long evidence to my eyes (irrespective of results) that the football isn't particularly effective, quite negative, and the players aren't getting any better. It has depressed me precisely because of LJ's potential. Hand on heart, if I had seen positive signs on all those things (which I don't think is asking a lot), then even 8 defeats in a row, I would be with you demanding stability for the manager.

It begs a different question for me - what does "turning it round" mean? We need results is the universal and logical answer, but I'm not ashamed to admit, we could win 5 in a row now, if the football was the same as it has been all season, I honestly wouldn't be persuaded he is the credible long term answer.  What "turning it round" really means to me, is seeing a specific philosophy of football, played consistently for 3 or 4 games, that regardless of results, is watchable, attacking, encourages players to try things, and takes risks. Something LJ can hang his hat on and say, that's my brand of football - take it or leave it. Who knows, we might be gung-ho and lose all 4 games 5-0 and he gets the boot, but I'd be behind him 100% if he just opened up a bit and played "his" game.

Not avoiding you mate...just got the bleeding flu and feel like shit, so not being so active on here. So apologies if I've missed yours or anyone's quotes.

Having read through peoples comments, I see the frustration, I'm frustrated too.

However...right now, IMo, is not the right time to bring any new manager in.

As for the style of football...I always recall in times like these, a good friend of mine who works for Burnley. He's seen his fair share of the Championship and repeatedly said the majority of games in the Championship are boring games from all teams, mostly ground out cagey affairs, where if you try to play 'expansive' and 'entertaining' football you get ripped apart.

It is what it is..

Right now he's just trying to just grind out a win.

When I watch Magners, Wright, Hegeler, Duric, Wilbs, Tammy...I don't see frightened little men. I do with certain others...especially some of more experienced players. I put the blame totally at their feet for this predicament. Either careless, always bloody injured ( which i'm starting to doubt...GoN, Matthews ) or just plain not good enough...Little etc.

We imo, are still 4 to 5 players short of being an average Championship side. First picks. A RB a LB and 3 midfielders. That's how I see it.

Any new manager would still have the same problems.

[spudski]

10 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

But the whole idea is that th 'head coach' is just a cog in the wheel isn't it ?

MA told us that was the whole idea, if the Head Coach moves on , everything remains the same

So what other implications ?

Why is LJ so integral to this new philosophy ?

You know , as well as I do , that he's lost major chunks , at best , of the dressing room and there's normally good reason for this

Theres too much concern in building a nest whilst the newborn are starving to death

Yes I agree...but the new cog has to be someone we want and is available and who will fit. Not someone in a panic.

The only weakness I can see...Is LJ can be pig headed. And his misjudgement in certain key players...Matthews, FF, RoD, GoN, Tomlin...and to a lesser extent Engval and Elstrand. Who'd have thought the first five I mentioned would be so poor this season.

Any new manager is still going to come in with pretty much a depleted team in terms of quality. GoN, Smith, Matthews, Golbourne, Tomlin, FF...have all let us down this season, either from Injury or poor form.

From what I've watched this season...Flint, Magners, Wright, Hegeler, Duric, Tammy and to a lesser extent Bryan, Tomlin, and I'm hoping the new Keeper who I've not watched yet, are the only players we have right now, who are capable of putting in a competent performance every game, to a level that is expected. The rest are just squad players imo, that will make errors and cost us games. This is what is happening.

[LondonBristolian]

12 hours ago, hay dens party said:

LG is definitely not the right man for the job, freedom of speech!

Freedom of speech is all well and good but you leave Larry Grayson out of this. He has done nothing to upset you and does not deserve your scorn.

Although I would accept he probably isn't my ideal City manager either...

[Meh]

8 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Freedom of speech is all well and good but you leave Larry Grayson out of this. He has done nothing to upset you and does not deserve your scorn.

Although I would accept he probably isn't my ideal City manager either...

I think he does deserve some scorn - like millions of others I have one of his 4G teles in my lounge and the ultra  clear picture gives me a headache.

I would shut that bloody door if I saw him now with his tempting new 56 inch line !!

[Guest]

SL`s stubbornness is quite likely i.m.o. to put us another 6 or even 9pts further back than we are now and an almost impossible situation to recover from; add that to LJ`s refusal to link the 2 forwards to the rest of the team, (so much so that they just as well be sat in the stands) does not bode well. 

As the memory of past defeats fade we all hope for a change in fortunes, cannot see it without a change in their current beliefs; until that happens its same old same old.

"Just a couple more games"? then what? "its to late to change now, just as well stick with what we have"

Come Neo ffs the guy even believes LJ has the support of most fans..............

[Son of Fred]

On 23/01/2017 at 18:45, Neo said:

As we know we are nothing without this guy and he has clearly stated his backing for LJ.

Surely then so must we? Talk of banners, booing and general shite like that has to stop otherwise we will now be indirectly criticising SL and the board - and if anybody deserves a bit more patience, despite all the utter frustration will feel it must be them.

To boo, boycott, bitch and moan now can only hurt the club and the confidence of the entire coaching and playing staff further.

Please resist and at least give it two more home games - after that firk it - do what you want !! 

To be frank,despite SL's huge success as a businessmen I see him as really rather meek,an even timid character and I see weakness infecting critical decision making regarding this club..

[City Ben]

On 1/24/2017 at 02:47, reddoc said:

I certainly throw away money on passing interests, so we'll beg to differ there. I'd also suggest there's a lot of hobby ownership going on in football nowadays explaining the majority of club ownership in the Prem. If I decide to respect SL , it will because of what this club eventually achieves on the pitch, and therefore for now I'll pass on that one.

OK so just to be clear on this, is it fair to say that you have no respect for SL and the only way he could earn your respect would be ultimate achievement on the pitch.

No thought for the money he's invested? Or, even if you think "so what, he's minted - the investment is trifling to him" - how about just the fact that he loves the club and clearly is trying his best? 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, which I why I ask. But I would find that position completely unbelievable.

[Dr Balls]

19 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

To be frank,despite SL's huge success as a businessmen I see him as really rather meek,an even timid character and I see weakness infecting critical decision making regarding this club..

Because as we know "hire & fire'em" doesn't work...

Witness Watford & Leeds in past seasons, who have gone through managers quicker than you can say "compensation payments". But eventually they find one who does bring a modicum of success. Not that fans of those clubs necessarily like their owners, but they at least enjoy the football.

The reality is that football is not a normal business. The things that a businessman can control have been done e.g. the stadium, but for the most important part you are dependent on a small number of people to actually deliver results. And it's likely it's something that you have never done yourself, unlike investments etc. Which is why some European teams have successful ex-players as Presidents as at least they understand football.

i admire SL for coming out & defending LJ, because somebody had to say something on Monday, but our lack of real success at a higher level after all his time at the club suggests that he isn't ruthless enough for football.

I will happily eat humble pie if I am wrong, but LJ will not have us in a higher position at the end of the season than we were last season. Considering the amount spent that constitutes failure on his part. If we get relegated it will be his failure, and SL will get blamed "for letting it happen" just 2 years after one of the most successful seasons in our history. Fair? Possibly not, but that's football for you.

 

[The Coach]

18 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Because as we know "hire & fire'em" doesn't work...

Witness Watford & Leeds in past seasons, who have gone through managers quicker than you can say "compensation payments". But eventually they find one who does bring a modicum of success. Not that fans of those clubs necessarily like their owners, but they at least enjoy the football.

The reality is that football is not a normal business. The things that a businessman can control have been done e.g. the stadium, but for the most important part you are dependent on a small number of people to actually deliver results. And it's likely it's something that you have never done yourself, unlike investments etc. Which is why some European teams have successful ex-players as Presidents as at least they understand football.

i admire SL for coming out & defending LJ, because somebody had to say something on Monday, but our lack of real success at a higher level after all his time at the club suggests that he isn't ruthless enough for football.

I will happily eat humble pie if I am wrong, but LJ will not have us in a higher position at the end of the season than we were last season. Considering the amount spent that constitutes failure on his part. If we get relegated it will be his failure, and SL will get blamed "for letting it happen" just 2 years after one of the most successful seasons in our history. Fair? Possibly not, but that's football for you.

 

 

Indeed it doesn't, and I was glad Lansdown came out last year and said the club need stability and need a long term plan. However, the curse of being of Bristol City strikes again. When we are looking for stability and a long term Head Coach. Our current Head Coach goes and sets a new club record for most losses set in a row. Which we now have to look to release him from his duties. Joys of football and being a part of Bristol City.

Your post is spot on.

[City Ben]

On 1/24/2017 at 12:20, spudski said:

Yes I agree...but the new cog has to be someone we want and is available and who will fit. Not someone in a panic.

The only weakness I can see...Is LJ can be pig headed. And his misjudgement in certain key players...Matthews, FF, RoD, GoN, Tomlin...and to a lesser extent Engval and Elstrand. Who'd have thought the first five I mentioned would be so poor this season.

Any new manager is still going to come in with pretty much a depleted team in terms of quality. GoN, Smith, Matthews, Golbourne, Tomlin, FF...have all let us down this season, either from Injury or poor form.

From what I've watched this season...Flint, Magners, Wright, Hegeler, Duric, Tammy and to a lesser extent Bryan, Tomlin, and I'm hoping the new Keeper who I've not watched yet, are the only players we have right now, who are capable of putting in a competent performance every game, to a level that is expected. The rest are just squad players imo, that will make errors and cost us games. This is what is happening.

Spudski I am sensing that you are in the minority in this thread so let me help! I couldn't agree more with you. 

Reverting to some of your earlier points, I don't think that it's right to say "we sacked managers, the new guys kept us up, so those sackings were successes". They were not a success at all - look at us now. We are in the exact same position. That's not progress.

Success, in my view, has to be measured over a longer term. 

All managers are always learning. Unless we were to bring in someone like Ancelotti or Wenger who has presumably seen it all, we accept our manager has to learn. Look at Pep! Seems he has a lot to learn in his current role. It would be complete folly in my view to put someone through this learning opportunity but not reap the benefit from them turning it around, and becoming a better manager in the process.

So the question becomes - does LJ have the capacity to learn? The ability to change? This is of course subjective. I think yes. (And note this is now a comment on his character and intellect rather than how we played v Forest and Cardiff). 

If that's accepted (and I recognise that it's not!) then the next question is - can he learn, and put those learnings in to practice, in time for us to escape relegation? Again, I think yes - with the quality in the team, and the amount of time left, I see us turning it around. Again I appreciate that this isn't a view shared by all... or even shared by many. 

My view is therefore that if we stick by him, and avoid relegation even by a point, we start next season in a great place. We have an improved squad, who have had a year together. We have an improved manager, who won't make the same mistakes again. You know what, we as fans probably even come out of it with a better sense of what the club is trying to do and, having turned it around, a renewed sense of belief in what the team and manager can achieve. 

As painful as it is right now - and believe me we all feel the pain - I have to think that if we can hold on and see this season through we will be better in the long term. 

[hoxton casual]

Support the team through thick and thin whatever. This board have more to lose than us and will TRY and make the right decisions for the club. If they get it wrong, it wont be for not putting the club and therefore us supporters at the front of their thinking. I would not say that about many boards of football clubs.

[reddoc]

18 minutes ago, City Ben said:

OK so just to be clear on this, is it fair to say that you have no respect for SL and the only way he could earn your respect would be ultimate achievement on the pitch.

No thought for the money he's invested? Or, even if you think "so what, he's minted - the investment is trifling to him" - how about just the fact that he loves the club and clearly is trying his best? 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, which I why I ask. But I would find that position completely unbelievable.

Sure, fair question. I suppose what I'm saying is that I suspect he owns the club because he wants to and can afford to. I'm not convinced he's done it for the greater good of the community or his love of City fans in general, as a great magnanimous gesture, and I find it interesting that there is a level of suspicion over the Bristol Sport development which arguably could be seen to benefit the community at large.

Therefore I think it's reasonable to respect him for his business activities, his achievements speak for themselves. If you're so inclined you could feel gratitude for the Stadium which is very nice and he lets me sit in once a fortnight for a reasonable fee. As for respect, I've been critical over the years of his handling of the club, both as a Chairman and owner so may as well remain consistent. I'm waiting to see this club become something other than a yo yo Div 1/ bottom end of Champ outfit. Lots of grand words about where we're headed, same old mistakes , same result, same old City. 

Fact is SL couldn't care less about what i think, and neither should anyone else. Just my opinion.

[City Ben]

4 minutes ago, reddoc said:

Sure, fair question. I suppose what I'm saying is that I suspect he owns the club because he wants to and can afford to. I'm not convinced he's done it for the greater good of the community or his love of City fans in general, as a great magnanimous gesture, and I find it interesting that there is a level of suspicion over the Bristol Sport development which arguably could be seen to benefit the community at large.

Therefore I think it's reasonable to respect him for his business activities, his achievements speak for themselves. If you're so inclined you could feel gratitude for the Stadium which is very nice and he lets me sit in once a fortnight for a reasonable fee. As for respect, I've been critical over the years of his handling of the club, both as a Chairman and owner so may as well remain consistent. I'm waiting to see this club become something other than a yo yo Div 1/ bottom end of Champ outfit. Lots of grand words about where we're headed, same old mistakes , same result, same old City. 

Fact is SL couldn't care less about what i think, and neither should anyone else. Just my opinion.

... and thank you for a fair answer. 

I disagree with you, but such is life! I think that he definitely has the greater good of the community in his heart. In fact, I think he is absolutely resolute in his desire to leave a real legacy to Bristol. He knows that the Lansdowns are the modern day Wills family, and he wants to give back to the city which enabled his ascent. I think investing in City, the redevelopment and Bristol Sport are his way to do that. 

Obvs I am speculating, but that's my view. 

How successful he is with his managerial appointments is a different question, but I don't think his passion should be questioned. 

[reddoc]

You may well be right. However unless 2 promotions from league 1 , a Paint cup and a Championship play off final in 15 odd years does it for you, I still think his record in charge is shocking.

[cidered abroad]

Respect SL for what he's done for City. But he'll never invest as high a percentage of his wealth as I, and probably others did, back in 1982. I bought £80 of shares to help save the Club I love for the future generations. That amount was 90% of my savings at the time and boy did my wife let me know that she wasn't best pleased.

And for all his wealth, he never seems to choose the right manager, does he?

[Cowshed]

1 hour ago, City Ben said:

... and thank you for a fair answer. 

I disagree with you, but such is life! I think that he definitely has the greater good of the community in his heart. In fact, I think he is absolutely resolute in his desire to leave a real legacy to Bristol. He knows that the Lansdowns are the modern day Wills family, and he wants to give back to the city which enabled his ascent. I think investing in City, the redevelopment and Bristol Sport are his way to do that. 

Obvs I am speculating, but that's my view. 

How successful he is with his managerial appointments is a different question, but I don't think his passion should be questioned. 

Speaking as somebody working in charity and involved in kids football how does Bristol Sport work for the greater good of the community?

I am always hoping that the land at Ashton Vale is turned into a sporting academy for the good of South Bristol and further. Turning kids into being part of a FC where the C stands for community rather than customers/consumers.

[EnderMB]

I have nothing against Lansdown, and I think what he has done for the club is exceptional, but I fundamentally disagree with those of you that think he shouldn't be criticised for his poor decisions.

[Alessandro]

On 1/24/2017 at 09:01, spudski said:

Not avoiding you mate...just got the bleeding flu and feel like shit, so not being so active on here. So apologies if I've missed yours or anyone's quotes.

Having read through peoples comments, I see the frustration, I'm frustrated too.

However...right now, IMo, is not the right time to bring any new manager in.

As for the style of football...I always recall in times like these, a good friend of mine who works for Burnley. He's seen his fair share of the Championship and repeatedly said the majority of games in the Championship are boring games from all teams, mostly ground out cagey affairs, where if you try to play 'expansive' and 'entertaining' football you get ripped apart.

It is what it is..

Right now he's just trying to just grind out a win.

When I watch Magners, Wright, Hegeler, Duric, Wilbs, Tammy...I don't see frightened little men. I do with certain others...especially some of more experienced players. I put the blame totally at their feet for this predicament. Either careless, always bloody injured ( which i'm starting to doubt...GoN, Matthews ) or just plain not good enough...Little etc.

We imo, are still 4 to 5 players short of being an average Championship side. First picks. A RB a LB and 3 midfielders. That's how I see it.

Any new manager would still have the same problems.

I agree with this - I just cannot get on board with this 'brand' of football argument many on here are using against LJ.

I think that as results have taken a turn for the worse, LJ has looked to play a more contained, damage limitation style of football, in the hope of staying in games and grinding out a win. Obviously this has created a rod for his own back as far as many fans are concerned. "Johnson is clueless. If we are going to lose, at least let's lose trying to win, playing a 'brand' of football". Whatever a 'brand' is. 

Well, it wasn't that long ago that many were lambasting the previous manager for doing the opposite. SC persisted with 3-5-2 leaving us constantly exposed. "Why can everyone but Cotterill see that we need to tighten up and switch to 4-4-2?!"

I don't remember reading once last year when SC was taking us down anyone saying "It's OK, we keep losing, but at least we are playing attacking football".