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4 minutes ago, RichardEdd said:

To be fair here, this seems to be you guys clinging to your version of what JHAGa said and what you're claiming here, is not it. Even in this thread  he has explained it:

He's not even claiming that that Johnson didn't have a say! And the only reason to constantly have to maintain it is that certain people like to continually bring it up.

 

Leave him to it. The guy has an obsession with me. He's been blocked by me for weeks now, which he's aware of. I've debated with him numerous times in the past but he never listens and still can't resist.

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1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Too bloody right he is.

After the PNE humiliation the crowd arrived at AG already angry and ready to turn on LJ en masse if we'd gone behind against Wolves.

LJ owes a huge debt to Fielding for that save from Dicko. If Dicko had scored confidence would have drained from the team again, another embarrassing debacle was likely, and calls for LJ's head from the stands would have been so overpowering even SL would have been forced to act.

That save was an absolutely pivotal moment.

Nope.  I was one of the crowd and I wasn't even mildly agitated when I arrived. I wish I'd had the chance to compete the poll that you must have set up to make such a statement.

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16 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

 

I'm sorry, regardless of time spent on the forum or how many posts they've made, if someone makes a silly comment I am free to respond to it. No need to be so patronising.

 

By opting to not focus solely on the negatives, maybe that's how I see more than those others. Although it's important to note that most people will give LJ credit when due and won't use any excuse to not praise him when its due, as Nogbad did. Nothing against Nogbad personally. I'm debating the post, not the poster.

 

As with you, I and others on the other side, pause and ask myself how people such as yourself can genuinely judge a person by focusing on one bad run of form, when outside of that, LJ has done a good job since joining, and we've gone on to recover from the bad run of form. Overall he has done a respectable job here and if people want to focus on that bad run and ignore everything that happened before and after it because it suits their argument, it's on them. But in choosing to ignore everything else or come up with excuses to suit their argument, I'm free to point out those factors.

I'm sorry if you feel I was patronising, not my intention. I can't speak for others but I can assure you that I'm not judging LJ on one bad run. I've watched the majority of our matches this season. I think LJ talks a good game but I think he's been floundering. I don't believe that he knew what was going wrong in the bad run and the good run seems to have come as a surprise to him. What he's not been able to instill is the confidence that the players need to play to their potential...in my opinion. Heads have regularly dropped when the opposition have scored, happened all season...as far back as away matches at Wednesday and Rotherham. I've been watching City pretty regularly for the best part of 40 years now. It's on the basis of that experience I'm reaching my conclusions...Lee's by no means the worst City manager I've seen, but he's far from the best, and I think he's very lucky to still have the job. Going into next season with him in charge doesn't fill me with confidence.

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Just now, Red Exile said:

I'm sorry if you feel I was patronising, not my intention. I can't speak for others but I can assure you that I'm not judging LJ on one bad run. I've watched the majority of our matches this season. I think LJ talks a good game but I think he's been floundering. I don't believe that he knew what was going wrong in the bad run and the good run seems to have come as a surprise to him. What he's not been able to install is the confidence that the players need to play to their potential...in my opinion. Heads have regularly dropped when the opposition have scored, happened all season...as far back as away matches at Wednesday and Rotherham. I've been watching City pretty regularly for the best part of 40 years now. It's on the basis of that experience I'm reaching my conclusions...Lee's by no means the worst City manager I've seen, but he's far from the best, and I think he's very lucky to still have the job.

agree with your views. As far as Lee is concerned he knows he is learning and so does SL. We have survived this season and he must have learned a lot. Next season who knows  - has he learn't enough or will he need another season? Time will tell. You have to give SL credit for sticking with him when pressure was pretty high to get rid (not by me I have to say)!

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Just now, iamsober said:

agree with your views. As far as Lee is concerned he knows he is learning and so does SL. We have survived this season and he must have learned a lot. Next season who knows  - has he learn't enough or will he need another season? Time will tell. You have to give SL credit for sticking with him when pressure was pretty high to get rid (not by me I have to say)!

You're right, time will tell, on both fronts, LJ and SL's decision. And I'd love to think that lessons have been learned, and to be watching a side playing with confidence, and dare I say it, a bit of swagger, next season. 

I recently watched the interview with Wilbs that he gave when he joined and then the highlights of the first match of that season at Sheffield...now that was a summer when the players we had recruited brought confidence...I'd love to see a summer like that again.

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12 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm sorry if you feel I was patronising, not my intention. I can't speak for others but I can assure you that I'm not judging LJ on one bad run. I've watched the majority of our matches this season. I think LJ talks a good game but I think he's been floundering. I don't believe that he knew what was going wrong in the bad run and the good run seems to have come as a surprise to him. What he's not been able to instill is the confidence that the players need to play to their potential...in my opinion. Heads have regularly dropped when the opposition have scored, happened all season...as far back as away matches at Wednesday and Rotherham. I've been watching City pretty regularly for the best part of 40 years now. It's on the basis of that experience I'm reaching my conclusions...Lee's by no means the worst City manager I've seen, but he's far from the best, and I think he's very lucky to still have the job. Going into next season with him in charge doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

Concerns, I completely understand. At no point have I claimed LJ has done a good job this season, nor will he. But I can understand how events unfolded, and outside of the bad run we did very well to start and end the season. Our final position (15th-19th) is nothing shocking going by the resources we have. My gripe is with the people that refuse to give credit when its due and look for any excuse not to do so but are quick to focus on, or exaggerate the negatives. Like I said in the post you're replying to, most people will give LJ credit but there are a few on here that won't and it's always the same names.

 

I believe LJ has shown enough outside of the bad run to suggest he can do a good job here in the future. His overall record speaks for itself. We're won about two less games than any other team in the league outside the top 8 and not many people expected us to be in the top 8, so we're hardly miles off. He has the backing of the owner and knows the club very well. I believe he will have learned a lot from his first full season managing at Championship level, particularly in the testing times, and it will be an advantage going into next season that he has had the experience of managing the squad for a full season and knows our strengths and weaknesses. There's no excusing the bad run we went on, LJ and SL both stated that criticism was warranted, but we've since recovered from it and I simply disagree with people failing to give any credit to LJ for when things have gone well. 6 wins in 10 is a tremendous response to the low point we found ourselves at. Hopefully with a summer's recruitment we can push on next season. The aim has to be to at least avoid another relegation battle.

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10 minutes ago, iamsober said:

The only like is the joker! haha

Thanks for the quality debate, glad you're happy! :clap:

When you get back to the BS offices tomorrow can you print me off a couple of Brum tickets?  Ta

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1 hour ago, iamsober said:

agree with your views. As far as Lee is concerned he knows he is learning and so does SL. We have survived this season and he must have learned a lot. Next season who knows  - has he learn't enough or will he need another season? Time will tell. You have to give SL credit for sticking with him when pressure was pretty high to get rid (not by me I have to say)!

I do agree that LJ has learnt a lot this season.

a) how to disappear down the tunnel like a ferret up a drainpipe when we've lost but walk round the pitch clapping the fans when we've won.

b) how to give a press conference slagging off the young players he is supposed to be developing when we lose e.g. accusing Mags of spending more time on his backside than upright.

c) how to make ludicrous, laughable statements about players he refused to pick for months now being worth £5m....or £25m.

I can't see how the players could see a manager doing these things and think he was anything but a bit of a clown. So personally I will be very surprised if this learning will make him any more successful next season. Of course I will be very happy if he proves me wrong and gets us into the play offs but I'm not holding my breath.

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2 minutes ago, robin_unreliant said:

I do agree that LJ has learnt a lot this season.

a) how to disappear down the tunnel like a ferret up a drainpipe when we've lost but walk round the pitch clapping the fans when we've won.

b) how to give a press conference slagging off the young players he is supposed to be developing when we lose e.g. accusing Mags of spending more time on his backside than upright.

c) how to make ludicrous, laughable statements about players he refused to pick for months now being worth £5m....or £25m.

I can't see how the players could see a manager doing these things and think he was anything but a bit of a clown. So personally I will be very surprised if this learning will make him any more successful next season. Of course I will be very happy if he proves me wrong and gets us into the play offs but I'm not holding my breath.

not worth replying!

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7 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Who are the "same names"? And where are these posts that "keep selling this season as a success"?

This was in response to @JHAGa's post where he called out those questioning the status quo.  It was that post that used the phrase 'same names'.

And as for selling the season as a success please refer to anyone who put 5 or above on the score the season thread.

Personally I rate it at as a 3 but I'll put the 'absolutely barking mad' level at 5 in this instance.

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4 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

You live in hypothetical, conspiracy theorist world. That's how you're deluded. You opt to focus on everything negative and give no credit to the manager, only when called out for your negativity. S***e for too long? We're 17th, went on one horrendous run but started and ended the season well. You opt to focus solely on the negatives and ignore everything that goes against your argument.

 

Still bringing up the Kodjia post? Haha, some people really can't let things go, as is the case with you and others with the losing run. I pointed out that LJ would not have wanted to lose Kodjia, as would any Head Coach/Manager, and that it would have been a board and financial choice to let him go. Once again, you and the same old negative posters claimed it was LJ's decision and therefore he bore that responsibility. Yeah, just like Rodgers was at fault for Liverpool selling Suarez, or AVB for Spurs selling Bale, eh? Even the top managers struggle in scenarios like that. And they had entire summers to replace them, not two days. We weren't prepared for him leaving and that cost us until we got reinforcements in January. Only then could Lee work with more than a very inexperienced Abraham and a very old (but fantastic servant) Wilbraham as his striking options, which wasn't enough at this level. We had a 0 net spend and find ourselves in a similar position to where we were last season. Nothing groundbreaking.

 

But the same old names turn every possible thing into as negative spin as possible. It's desperate and really quite sad.

Yes, "still bringing" it up because you carry on ignoring my quote from SL, a quote I have used to correct your mistaken impression that LJ had no say in the Kodjia sale, twice, and here I am again, with Steve Lansdown's words on the transfer. 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Steve Lansdown, in conversation with Adam Baker, on the club's youtube channel, 2 September 2016, speaking about the decision to sell Kodjia to Aston Villa:

 

"....both Mark and Lee recommended to me we should accept the offer.....so I went along with it." Steve Lansdown, to Adam Baker, 2 September 2016.

 

That is what Steve Lansdown said, not me claiming anything, it's me quoting Steve Lansdown. It's on youtube, for all to see. Very simple, very clear.

In fairness to Steve, who is often accused of interfering, he left Mark and Lee to decide, and part of that decision must have involved an assessment of whether selling Kodj at that point would leave us short of forwards, and whether we had replacements in mind, and the likelihood of getting them signed in the time available.

Those are the critical judgments Johnson, and Ashton, are employed at this club to make. Get enough of them right, we have a good chance of doing well; get too many wrong, we might struggle. The two of them are here to "manage" these difficult situations. 

That this all happened late in August and involved a player asking not to play is not an excuse; as Lee Johnson himself (ie, not me "claiming;" Lee Johnson saying) said in August:

 

"We are always prepared for anything. If you are not, then you are not doing your job properly. There always has to be a recruitment strategy in place."  Lee Johnson, August 2016.

 

If they did not see or did not think an offer for a forward with 20 goals to his name, matching SL's valuation, coming, then they "were not doing their job properly."

 

You do not like the fact that I corrected you twice on this, quoting Steve Lansdown both times; fair enough, no one enjoys being wrong, and shown up a bit. Yet still you carry on! I do not expect me correcting you once again, with quotes from SL himself (in stark contrast to your absence of quotes from any one at the club), will make any more difference than the first two times.

It's not nice being wrong. As we all know, from time to time (I know, you're "not listening.")

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5 hours ago, Robbored said:

Clearly you don't grasp how it works do you? I'll explain.....

SL employs MA to run the club on a day to day basis and employs LJ to run the football. That said, no major decisions are made without SLs approval.

If LJ wants to sign a player he's goes through MA and then SL. They may all meet up together to discuss such things for all we know.

For SL to say to LJ that he'd heard Tomlin is disruptive is simply ludicrous. That is LJs area of expertise and SL allows him to get on with it. Quite right to. 

Yeah which is why he speaks to the Coach on a Friday, is often in the dressing room on a Saturday, and conducts a debrief of the Coach on a Sunday/Monday.

And I've garnered all that info from statements by Lansdown and Johnson themselves.

Clearly there's much you don't grasp either, Mr Sanctimonious

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Just now, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yeah which is why he speaks to the Coach on a Friday, is often in the dressing room on a Saturday, and conducts a debrief of the Coach on a Sunday/Monday.

And I've garnered all that info from statements by Lansdown and Johnson themselves.

Don't feed the troll 

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1 minute ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Yeah which is why he speaks to the Coach on a Friday, is often in the dressing room on a Saturday, and conducts a debrief of the Coach on a Sunday/Monday.

And I've garnered all that info from statements by Lansdown and Johnson themselves.

Clearly there's much you don't grasp either, Mr Sanctimonious

You missed my point MM.............

Of course SL iknows what's going on both in the day to day running of the club and the football side. Of course he speaks to LJ and MA regularly but he doesn't get too involved in what's going on in the dressing room.........that's not his area of expertise and that's why he employs a manager.

Jeez.........:disapointed2se:

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3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You missed my point MM.............

Of course SL iknows what's going on both in the day to day running of the club and the football side. Of course he speaks to LJ and MA regularly but he doesn't get too involved in what's going on in the dressing room.........that's not his area of expertise and that's why he employs a manager.

Jeez.........:disapointed2se:

Again, that is not was been intimated by previous managers or even the current 'Head Coach'.  That is the point some of us are trying to make, I'd love SL to leave it to football people but it 'appears' he doesn't.

Many of us got your point but don't believe it.

 

Are you just misreading the posts to be a wind up merchant or are you just not grasping the points that some of us are trying to make?

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56 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

Yes, "still bringing" it up because you carry on ignoring my quote from SL, a quote I have used to correct your mistaken impression that LJ had no say in the Kodjia sale, twice, and here I am again, with Steve Lansdown's words on the transfer. 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Steve Lansdown, in conversation with Adam Baker, on the club's youtube channel, 2 September 2016, speaking about the decision to sell Kodjia to Aston Villa:

 

"....both Mark and Lee recommended to me we should accept the offer.....so I went along with it." Steve Lansdown, to Adam Baker, 2 September 2016.

 

That is what Steve Lansdown said, not me claiming anything, it's me quoting Steve Lansdown. It's on youtube, for all to see. Very simple, very clear.

In fairness to Steve, who is often accused of interfering, he left Mark and Lee to decide, and part of that decision must have involved an assessment of whether selling Kodj at that point would leave us short of forwards, and whether we had replacements in mind, and the likelihood of getting them signed in the time available.

Those are the critical judgments Johnson, and Ashton, are employed at this club to make. Get enough of them right, we have a good chance of doing well; get too many wrong, we might struggle. The two of them are here to "manage" these difficult situations. 

That this all happened late in August and involved a player asking not to play is not an excuse; as Lee Johnson himself (ie, not me "claiming;" Lee Johnson saying) said in August:

 

"We are always prepared for anything. If you are not, then you are not doing your job properly. There always has to be a recruitment strategy in place."  Lee Johnson, August 2016.

 

If they did not see or did not think an offer for a forward with 20 goals to his name, matching SL's valuation, coming, then they "were not doing their job properly."

 

You do not like the fact that I corrected you twice on this, quoting Steve Lansdown both times; fair enough, no one enjoys being wrong, and shown up a bit. Yet still you carry on! I do not expect me correcting you once again, with quotes from SL himself (in stark contrast to your absence of quotes from any one at the club), will make any more difference than the first two times.

It's not nice being wrong. As we all know, from time to time (I know, you're "not listening.")

 

And I've said before that if LJ said we're prepared for anything, he was mistaken or the board let him down. The panic bids of £6.5M on deadline day for Joe Mason suggested otherwise. Do you think LJ would have wanted to lose Kodjia? No. No manager would have, particularly with a day or two left in the transfer window. It wasn't solely LJ's decision, it was a board and financial decision. And I've not ignored your quote, I've directly responded to it in the past and have no idea why you persist in bringing it up. Maybe it's because you don't like being called out for your nonsensical posts and instead repeat yourself like a broken record on something completely off-topic. Anything to change the conversation when you get called out for your negative drivel, eh?

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Are we still on about Kodjia ?. We all know his head was turned by his agent when Villa came knocking. He didn't want to play for us and in so many words said so didn't he ?

Money was his criteria and wouldn't it be for anyone ? I and most fans were gutted when he left as we were trying to build a team around him capable of pushing for the top 6. If he had stayed we would not have been struggling I'm sure and the defence would not have been under so much pressure. Replacing him was going to be very very difficult almost impossible given the time allowed.

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2 hours ago, Jack Dawe said:

Yes, "still bringing" it up because you carry on ignoring my quote from SL, a quote I have used to correct your mistaken impression that LJ had no say in the Kodjia sale, twice, and here I am again, with Steve Lansdown's words on the transfer. 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Steve Lansdown, in conversation with Adam Baker, on the club's youtube channel, 2 September 2016, speaking about the decision to sell Kodjia to Aston Villa:

 

"....both Mark and Lee recommended to me we should accept the offer.....so I went along with it." Steve Lansdown, to Adam Baker, 2 September 2016.

 

That is what Steve Lansdown said, not me claiming anything, it's me quoting Steve Lansdown. It's on youtube, for all to see. Very simple, very clear.

In fairness to Steve, who is often accused of interfering, he left Mark and Lee to decide, and part of that decision must have involved an assessment of whether selling Kodj at that point would leave us short of forwards, and whether we had replacements in mind, and the likelihood of getting them signed in the time available.

Those are the critical judgments Johnson, and Ashton, are employed at this club to make. Get enough of them right, we have a good chance of doing well; get too many wrong, we might struggle. The two of them are here to "manage" these difficult situations. 

That this all happened late in August and involved a player asking not to play is not an excuse; as Lee Johnson himself (ie, not me "claiming;" Lee Johnson saying) said in August:

 

"We are always prepared for anything. If you are not, then you are not doing your job properly. There always has to be a recruitment strategy in place."  Lee Johnson, August 2016.

 

If they did not see or did not think an offer for a forward with 20 goals to his name, matching SL's valuation, coming, then they "were not doing their job properly."

 

You do not like the fact that I corrected you twice on this, quoting Steve Lansdown both times; fair enough, no one enjoys being wrong, and shown up a bit. Yet still you carry on! I do not expect me correcting you once again, with quotes from SL himself (in stark contrast to your absence of quotes from any one at the club), will make any more difference than the first two times.

It's not nice being wrong. As we all know, from time to time (I know, you're "not listening.")

Haven't read the whole thread so forgive my naivety but what has this got to do with the thread or are you just "point scoring"?

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18 hours ago, Chivs said:

Nope.  I was one of the crowd and I wasn't even mildly agitated when I arrived. I wish I'd had the chance to compete the poll that you must have set up to make such a statement.

Some people - like you perhaps Chivs - just don't get agitated by something like how poorly a City manager is performing.

But others get more emotionally involved with all things BCFC, and the majority will have a tipping point.

For example, there are four 50 something blokes who sit in a line directly in front of me every week in the Lower Dolman.

Obviously very old friends who meet up at home games, always chatting and having a laugh with each other before the match, studiously watch the game, quietly supportive of the team, joyous when we score, and seem to thoroughly enjoy getting together at  AG.

Very much a typical group of City fans perhaps, who had never joined in any anti LJ chanting.

Before the Wolves match 3 of them were sat there in silence, when the 4th one came up from the bogs just before ko he was frowning and said to his mates, 'Right, if we go behind today that's it, Johnson's getting both ******* barrels.'

'Too right mate, I've had it up to here with him'.

My impression was that was the general mood of the crowd assembling at AG following the PNE game, and certainly the feelings of enough of that crowd to make their frustration and anger ultra clear if things hadn't gone LJ's way.

I didn't say every single person in the ground was waiting for that goal to vent, there will always be some who remain silent or supportive to the end for whatever reason, but I've no doubt what the stormy reaction from the stands would have been had we gone behind.

Btw, re. your sarcastic reference to polls. I really don't need polls to judge the mood of a City crowd, and I'm surprised if you do.

There are occasions when being in amongst the crowd the general mood of your fellow fans couldn't be more obvious and the pent up wrath evident in the build up to ko in the Wolves game was most definitely one of those occasions.

 

 

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20 hours ago, JHAGa said:

 

Not fixated just laughed at the absurdity of it (and now your continuous defence of the comment). Those other games weren't 'any old games' either, they were all of vital importance. We ended the season in brilliant fashion and you seem opposed to acknowledge that. Again, like a previous poster, you're living in some hypothetical world and refuse to give the manager credit but opt to focus on negatives, even when they don't even exist.

Stop lording it,

if he deserves credit he also deserves all the criticism as well,

ine wolves goal and the place would of exploded, it's not hypothetical it would of happened,

lose a few in a row next season and it will happen,

the long poor run will stay in people's minds for a long time, 

 

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24 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Stop lording it,

if he deserves credit he also deserves all the criticism as well,

ine wolves goal and the place would of exploded, it's not hypothetical it would of happened,

lose a few in a row next season and it will happen,

the long poor run will stay in people's minds for a long time, 

 

 

How many times has it been said that criticism is warranted for the bad run? LJ and SL themselves stated it. At no point did I say he didn't deserve criticism when things weren't going well, my point was just that if people are going to criticise him for when things are bad (and won't be prepared to let go of it months on) then they should also give him credit when warranted. Instead of twisting positive things into negatives.

 

It absolutely is hypothetical as it did not happen, it's some alternate universe where Fielding didn't do his job and make some saves at the start of the Wolves game. But that didn't happen, we won 6 of our last 10 games. Instead of giving LJ credit for that, it's 'Well LJ was lucky that Fielding made those saves at the start of that one game!'... unbelievable. But that's the negative mentality a few people on here have unfortunately.

 

You got the last part of your post right. Some people are just unwilling to let go of it, which I find very sad. But they're conveniently totally prepared to forget all the good work LJ has done before and after it, to suit their arguments.

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16 minutes ago, JHAGa said:

How many times has it been said that criticism is warranted for the bad run? LJ and SL themselves stated it. At no point did I say he didn't deserve criticism when things weren't going well, my point was just that if people are going to criticise him for when things are bad (and won't be prepared to let go of it months on) then they should also give him credit when warranted. Instead of twisting positive things into negatives.

Well that's a bit odd then because you joined this forum in December 2016 and immediately set about writing posts that defended LJ, despite the fact we were in the middle of an appalling run of form.

Since joining the forum you've been posting on a very regular basis (750 posts in 4 months) pretty much exclusively defending LJ at every given opportunity.

So, my questions to you are:

1) Did you have a previous alias on this forum before you signed up in December?

2) If not, why did you decide to sign up to the forum 4 months ago? Are you a long-term reader of the forum?

Now, call me suspicious or whatever but it seems a little odd to me that someone should sign up in December and be posting topics/replies within days, prolifically, defending LJ.

You don't have to answer the questions of course but I am interested as people don't tend to appear out of nowhere and immediately start posting on a daily basis...

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