Jurassic Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Has LJ stumbled upon a magic formula? Injuries have forced us to play without a traditional “target man”. As a result blindly punting the ball forward is pointless, we have to pass our way through midfield and create chances using skill and speed. Last season it was all about finding Tammy upfront, as good as he was we are now a better team. Do we need a big front man - our performances of late say NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayOutWest Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I think a fully fit Duric would be one of the first players on the team sheet. LJ loves him. We havent seen the best of this player yet. More to his game and in fairness to ours then lumping it forward Stevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ealing Robin Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 The "false 9" where we effectively have 6 midfield players on the pitch, enables our midfielders to constantly interchange creating the best movement i have ever seen us play. Championship teams historically would not have the technical ability to play it, but we have so much talent in midfield it owrks a treat. Fammy/Duric/Taylor all enable us to have so many different approaches which Johnson seems incredibly astute at executing at the moment. Long may it continue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SStandUp Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 23 minutes ago, WR5 said: The "false 9" where we effectively have 6 midfield players on the pitch, enables our midfielders to constantly interchange creating the best movement i have ever seen us play. Championship teams historically would not have the technical ability to play it, but we have so much talent in midfield it owrks a treat. Fammy/Duric/Taylor all enable us to have so many different approaches which Johnson seems incredibly astute at executing at the moment. Long may it continue! Massively agree. I love when we cram the midfield - we look our biggest threat going forward and defensively we always have atleast 2 covering. Also allows Pato that free/ floating role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wendyredredrobin Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 I've been loving this since we first tried it at Fulham. Then if it's not working, bring on a winger and centre forward in the second half. Seems to be working though. We are now the Barcelona of the Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 33 minutes ago, WR5 said: The "false 9" where we effectively have 6 midfield players on the pitch, enables our midfielders to constantly interchange creating the best movement i have ever seen us play. Championship teams historically would not have the technical ability to play it, but we have so much talent in midfield it owrks a treat. Fammy/Duric/Taylor all enable us to have so many different approaches which Johnson seems incredibly astute at executing at the moment. Long may it continue! 9 minutes ago, ForeverRes said: Massively agree. I love when we cram the midfield - we look our biggest threat going forward and defensively we always have atleast 2 covering. Also allows Pato that free/ floating role The big plus in this method , in the way we play it ((Well coached) is we continually get runners going beyond the ball , when in possession in the final third’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the frampton balti Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 it does seem very unconventional . we dont really have full backs . we have four of the best centre backs in the country and six midfielders . our two holding midfielders are getting themselves on the score sheet now. smith and pack. lovin it! an organism... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 A target man is a useful option but not one that should be adopted game after game. I In fact LJ took Djuric off at ht recently because all the defence did was hoof long ball upto him with minimal success and LJ figured that without a target man that City would start to play proper football - and they did. He went up in my estimation when he did that. Its not something many previous managers would have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossi the Robin Posted December 21, 2017 Report Share Posted December 21, 2017 Loved Holden playing the cool guy saying calm it, still not won, even with 30 seconds left Reminded me of Mcclaren with Alex Ferguson in the 1999 champions league final A good balanced management team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Posted December 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 It seems that if we have a conventional big target man then a long ball in his direction is always an easy option. Without that option the players have to pass and move, keep possession and work for the opening. The system is working and we seem to be able to mix and match players almost at will. Huge respect to the coaching staff for sticking with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 I noticed against Man Utd, we sometimes never had an option on when pressed, so had to play a longer ball in the air to Reid. I thought at the time, 'well this isn't going to work', as he didn't win one header. However...those airial battles are 50/50...it's the second ball that's got to be won. And because we have a high pressing, active midfield, we often won that second ball. Another thing I've noticed, is that we often get into scoring opportunities when intercepting passes when out of possession. We seem to be more effective when doing this, than when trying to play from the back and build through the pitch. Our work out of possession is what has improved so much. It's been paramount to our success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, spudski said: I noticed against Man Utd, we sometimes never had an option on when pressed, so had to play a longer ball in the air to Reid. I thought at the time, 'well this isn't going to work', as he didn't win one header. However...those airial battles are 50/50...it's the second ball that's got to be won. And because we have a high pressing, active midfield, we often won that second ball. Another thing I've noticed, is that we often get into scoring opportunities when intercepting passes when out of possession. We seem to be more effective when doing this, than when trying to play from the back and build through the pitch. Our work out of possession is what has improved so much. It's been paramount to our success. Good post Spud Agree with all of those good points - finding our ethos and tactical approach fascinating - playing the popular modern way very well atm As for the long balls , I think , understandably there were times that as you say we were under the cosh, had no out and went long to relieve the pressure The great thing the other night was we only did so when we really needed to and chose the right times to do it The other point re second balls is very important and pivotal In amongst lots of goods and pluses the other night I thought that our winnning of second ,balls , sometimes third balls, was awesome and decisive at times we appeared to have 15 on the pitch as there appeared to be a queue of red shirts covering each other and taking turns to nip in to challenge or pinch the ball I can only think of one or two occasions where any single player was isolated without a teammate(s) getting in position , backing him up - the 'ugly' side was breathtaking at times And again ,I totally agree that we are at our most dangerous in transition, when we regain possession and a major part of the ethos is to try and win the ball back in their half of the pitch whenever we can - Both of our goals started almost identically the other night regaining possssion on our Left near touchline around half way line - With Koreys winner coming after we lost and then regained possession on edge of their own box Our intention , and clear plan , to create a chance / threat on goal so quickly once we have regained possession high up the pitch , is the key for me - we have profited from this so many times this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 11 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Good post Spud Agree with all of those good points - finding our ethos and tactical approach fascinating - playing the popular modern way very well atm As for the long balls , I think , understandably there were times that as you say we were under the cosh, had no out and went long to relieve the pressure The great thing the other night was we only did so when we really needed to and chose the right times to do it The other point re second balls is very important and pivotal In amongst lots of goods and pluses the other night I thought that our winnning of second ,balls , sometimes third balls, was awesome and decisive at times we appeared to have 15 on the pitch as there appeared to be a queue of red shirts covering each other and taking turns to nip in to challenge or pinch the ball I can only think of one or two occasions where any single player was isolated without a teammate(s) getting in position , backing him up - the 'ugly' side was breathtaking at times And again ,I totally agree that we are at our most dangerous in transition, when we regain possession and a major part of the ethos is to try and win the ball back in their half of the pitch whenever we can - Both of our goals started almost identically the other night regaining possssion on our Left near touchline around half way line - With Koreys winner coming after we lost and then regained possession on edge of their own box Our intention , and clear plan , to create a chance / threat on goal so quickly once we have regained possession high up the pitch , is the key for me - we have profited from this so many times this season Totally agree BBSB. Our transition work is superb. I was watching for the 'triggers' in the Man Utd game, for when we'd press the man who had just received the ball. It was fantastic. One would press the man on the ball, another two would read the game and cut out the pass lines. We were working as units of three's it seemed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf Hucker Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 11 hours ago, the frampton balti said: it does seem very unconventional . we dont really have full backs . we have four of the best centre backs in the country and six midfielders . our two holding midfielders are getting themselves on the score sheet now. smith and pack. lovin it! an organism... Sorry, misread that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 24 minutes ago, spudski said: I noticed against Man Utd, we sometimes never had an option on when pressed, so had to play a longer ball in the air to Reid. I thought at the time, 'well this isn't going to work', as he didn't win one header. However...those airial battles are 50/50...it's the second ball that's got to be won. And because we have a high pressing, active midfield, we often won that second ball. Another thing I've noticed, is that we often get into scoring opportunities when intercepting passes when out of possession. We seem to be more effective when doing this, than when trying to play from the back and build through the pitch. Our work out of possession is what has improved so much. It's been paramount to our success. I also noticed that we quite often do a "long ball" with a bit of curl on it intended for someone to run on to. There was a very clear one against Middlesbrough where Paterson (I think) ran around the defended on the opposite side to where the ball was played, but if you drew a straight line from where the ball was played to where Pato got it then it would have gone right through where the defender was. We've played quite a few of these passes- usually with the run on the opposite side of the defender to where the ball travels- and even when they don't come off the defender is under pressure because there is someone on him immediately due to the nature of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Good post Spud Agree with all of those good points - finding our ethos and tactical approach fascinating - playing the popular modern way very well atm As for the long balls , I think , understandably there were times that as you say we were under the cosh, had no out and went long to relieve the pressure The great thing the other night was we only did so when we really needed to and chose the right times to do it The other point re second balls is very important and pivotal In amongst lots of goods and pluses the other night I thought that our winnning of second ,balls , sometimes third balls, was awesome and decisive at times we appeared to have 15 on the pitch as there appeared to be a queue of red shirts covering each other and taking turns to nip in to challenge or pinch the ball I can only think of one or two occasions where any single player was isolated without a teammate(s) getting in position , backing him up - the 'ugly' side was breathtaking at times And again ,I totally agree that we are at our most dangerous in transition, when we regain possession and a major part of the ethos is to try and win the ball back in their half of the pitch whenever we can - Both of our goals started almost identically the other night regaining possssion on our Left near touchline around half way line - With Koreys winner coming after we lost and then regained possession on edge of their own box Our intention , and clear plan , to create a chance / threat on goal so quickly once we have regained possession high up the pitch , is the key for me - we have profited from this so many times this season Going back to the point about it seeming like there were 15 on the pitch, at one point Ibrahimovic got crowder out by 3-4 of our players, yet there didn't seem to be any huge gaps or Manchester players left wide open in a dangerous area. The work going into that is fantastic, and I have to wonder if that's exactly the type of thing we would have been able to use the drones in training to improve on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 1 minute ago, spudski said: Totally agree BBSB. Our transition work is superb. I was watching for the 'triggers' in the Man Utd, game for when we'd press the man who had just received the ball. It was fantastic. One would press the man on the ball, another two would read the game and cut out the pass lines. We were working as units of three's it seemed. Agree - we didn't press high as often as we would in say a Championship game - thought we got it nigh on perfect all night when to and when not to - Tactically I thought we were brilliant and massive credit to LJ and the coaching staff for the game plan and ethos and for the players executing the plan brilliantly and for their commitment The Man City challenge will be fascinating (And possibly frightening !) We will have to be very careful when we high press (Even more so than against United) and will be a big challenge to cope with their high press which is possibly the best around Love how we continually try to get players running from behind to beyond the ball , in the last third , mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Agree - we didn't press high as often as we would in say a Championship game - thought we got it nigh on perfect all night when to and when not to - Tactically I thought we were brilliant and massive credit to LJ and the coaching staff for the game plan and ethos and for the players executing the plan brilliantly and for their commitment The Man City challenge will be fascinating (And possibly frightening !) We will have to be very careful when we high press (Even more so than against United) and will be a big challenge to cope with their high press which is possibly the best around Love how we continually try to get players running from behind to beyond the ball , in the last third , mate It certainly will be interesting. We also may have some new recruits by then. Hopefully they won't be cup tied. Strangely imo, I thought it would be a perfect game for Vyner and Kelly to play in. The speed down their flanks against Wright and Magners would worry me. If we could match them on that, it would help. Allowing others to recover positions and stop any space developing behind. I'm probably in a minority in that thinking though :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, spudski said: It certainly will be interesting. We also may have some new recruits by then. Hopefully they won't be cup tied. Strangely imo, I thought it would be a perfect game for Vyner and Kelly to play in. The speed down their flanks against Wright and Magners would worry me. If we could match them on that, it would help. Allowing others to recover positions and stop any space developing behind. I'm probably in a minority in that thinking though Good interesting thought Spud - my initial thought is I'm not so sure I fall out with that Spud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBobSuperBob Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 47 minutes ago, spudski said: Totally agree BBSB. Our transition work is superb. I was watching for the 'triggers' in the Man Utd game, for when we'd press the man who had just received the ball. It was fantastic. One would press the man on the ball, another two would read the game and cut out the pass lines. We were working as units of three's it seemed. Meant to say Spud I know you havnt been his biggest fan but for a couple of spells I watched Korey Smith when United were in possession - his reading of the game, sometimes two passes ahead was awesome , constantly covering and filling holes, cutting off passing options for the opposition , and ball pinching numerous times Sometimes the ball wouldn't come within 15-20 yards of him and we would close down and win the ball back elsewhere but often his closing off off a space or passing option elsewhere had preceded that He wasn't the only one but his reading and hole filling was truly fantastic - and certainly the other night , of Premier League quality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Meant to say Spud I know you havnt been his biggest fan but for a couple of spells I watched Korey Smith when United were in possession - his reading of the game, sometimes two passes ahead was awesome , constantly covering and filling holes, cutting off passing options for the opposition , and ball pinching numerous times Sometimes the ball wouldn't come within 15-20 yards of him and we would close down and win the ball back elsewhere but often his closing off off a space or passing option elsewhere had preceded that He wasn't the only one but his reading and hole filling was truly fantastic - and certainly the other night , of Premier League quality I have been a big critic of his BBSB. He does have the talent...but hadn't been showing it consistently for a while. But over the last two months he's come back fighting. That's what you want from him on a regular basis. I thought he'd peaked and lost it. Happy that he's found his quality again and is producing it consistently again. I'm also of the same opinion that Harry has about JB. Much better as a LM than LB. Happy if he keeps developing in either position which makes him versatile...we will struggle to keep hold of him, especially being left footed as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 42 minutes ago, spudski said: Totally agree BBSB. Our transition work is superb. I was watching for the 'triggers' in the Man Utd game, for when we'd press the man who had just received the ball. It was fantastic. One would press the man on the ball, another two would read the game and cut out the pass lines. We were working as units of three's it seemed. Good post @spudski at the start of this mini-thread. When the triggers weren’t quite right, the quality of Man Utd showed. But in general, we got them spot on. Was talking to my dad about it, there were a couple of times when Reid was half a second off, but them moved the ball on and then created overload on Pato or Smith or Pack. Clever players do that, but testament to our pressing that it didn’t happen very often. 39 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: I also noticed that we quite often do a "long ball" with a bit of curl on it intended for someone to run on to. There was a very clear one against Middlesbrough where Paterson (I think) ran around the defended on the opposite side to where the ball was played, but if you drew a straight line from where the ball was played to where Pato got it then it would have gone right through where the defender was. We've played quite a few of these passes- usually with the run on the opposite side of the defender to where the ball travels- and even when they don't come off the defender is under pressure because there is someone on him immediately due to the nature of it. This is "the ball" we have to play when you don’t have a typical big man. Curled ball either around full back or if pushed up (like Boro’s FBs), the down the side of the CB’s. How many tines On Wed did the willing run of Reid mean that Lindelof or Rojo gave to knock it our for a throw 40 yards further up the pitch than the original pass (wrong to call it a lump). Darmian was one who actually dealt with it well, trying to keep possession, but often, going back to Romero who then went long. Back to OP, we’d just started to get Diedhiou making those runs in the few games before he got injured, and played some decent stuff. Having said that I wouldn’t say Diedhiou is a target man like Djúric, he has a good all around game, and I think Reid misses him, in terms of his own scoring exploits. But when you see Pack off the mark (and easily could’ve had a brace on Sat), and Smith up to the heady heights of three goals (already), it’s time to realise it doesn’t matter who scores, just that we do. We are exciting to watch, and that’s with a flexible system based on 442/4411. Let’s not forget, we started the season hoping to see both Pisano and Bryan, flying past their opposing fullbacks, but we’ve adjusted to Wright and Magnússon as our FBs, and I think this is why Smith and Pack have a little more licence to get forward. I don’t think opposition managers know exactly how to match us up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, spudski said: I have been a big critic of his BBSB. He does have the talent...but hadn't been showing it consistently for a while. But over the last two months he's come back fighting. That's what you want from him on a regular basis. I thought he'd peaked and lost it. Happy that he's found his quality again and is producing it consistently again. I'm also of the same opinion that Harry has about JB. Much better as a LM than LB. Happy if he keeps developing in either position which makes him versatile...we will struggle to keep hold of him, especially being left footed as well. I chatted to DH re Smith, and asked whether a pre-season made a difference. His response was it is almost impossible for a player to play catch-up if they miss pre-season. The whole season is geared around it. To think some on here would be happy to see Smith go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudski Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 @Davefevs...whilst Reid hasn't been so prolific at scoring recently, it's his work off the ball that has been most important. Harassing players high up the pitch, not letting them settle, making them make rushed poor passes. This allows our midfield to intercept and quickly counter. It's a great tactic. Good to hear about Korey fella...thankfully he's caught up. I still think we need another CM though. Just for competition, cover etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Good post @spudski at the start of this mini-thread. When the triggers weren’t quite right, the quality of Man Utd showed. But in general, we got them spot on. Was talking to my dad about it, there were a couple of times when Reid was half a second off, but them moved the ball on and then created overload on Pato or Smith or Pack. Clever players do that, but testament to our pressing that it didn’t happen very often. This is "the ball" we have to play when you don’t have a typical big man. Curled ball either around full back or if pushed up (like Boro’s FBs), the down the side of the CB’s. How many tines On Wed did the willing run of Reid mean that Lindelof or Rojo gave to knock it our for a throw 40 yards further up the pitch than the original pass (wrong to call it a lump). Darmian was one who actually dealt with it well, trying to keep possession, but often, going back to Romero who then went long. Back to OP, we’d just started to get Diedhiou making those runs in the few games before he got injured, and played some decent stuff. Having said that I wouldn’t say Diedhiou is a target man like Djúric, he has a good all around game, and I think Reid misses him, in terms of his own scoring exploits. But when you see Pack off the mark (and easily could’ve had a brace on Sat), and Smith up to the heady heights of three goals (already), it’s time to realise it doesn’t matter who scores, just that we do. We are exciting to watch, and that’s with a flexible system based on 442/4411. Let’s not forget, we started the season hoping to see both Pisano and Bryan, flying past their opposing fullbacks, but we’ve adjusted to Wright and Magnússon as our FBs, and I think this is why Smith and Pack have a little more licence to get forward. I don’t think opposition managers know exactly how to match us up. What I'd love to see- assuming all our players were fit- would be a match between a balanced split of our squad, but not played out as if it was a friendly or training match. A competitive match between 2 sides playing our type of football would be a great spectacle. Alternatively I feel that if we play as well against Manchester next month as we did against Manchester on Wednesday, then whatever the result the game will be incredibly entertaining, particularly for neutrals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 23 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said: Meant to say Spud I know you havnt been his biggest fan but for a couple of spells I watched Korey Smith when United were in possession - his reading of the game, sometimes two passes ahead was awesome , constantly covering and filling holes, cutting off passing options for the opposition , and ball pinching numerous times Sometimes the ball wouldn't come within 15-20 yards of him and we would close down and win the ball back elsewhere but often his closing off off a space or passing option elsewhere had preceded that He wasn't the only one but his reading and hole filling was truly fantastic - and certainly the other night , of Premier League quality He wasn't the only one but his reading and hole filling was truly fantastic - and certainly the other night , of Premier League quality. The Rudolph Hucker of the team if you like . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted December 22, 2017 Report Share Posted December 22, 2017 Let's just face it we are frocking awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.