Hörður (Merged)

[shelts]

5 minutes ago, Shtanley said:

If the paperwork had gone through to Rostov perhaps Lloyd Kelly could've already developed into a solid Championship defender.

Maybe Maggs will have a good World Cup and we can cash in on him. 

We’ve played him because he cost us a few quid and he’s a senior. Might as well develop one of our own and as u z let him become a true championship player in time . Maggers puts in a shift and tries his best , at times it’s not good enough. A gamble that never paid off 

[ZiderEyed]

I am worried about the frequency of these errors.

He was doing really well recently and it's not like the rest of our back 4 aren't error prone either.

Is it because Magnússon's mistakes result in goals more often? **** knows. Just needs to cut it out of his game.

[BITW]

1 hour ago, brad blit said:

I was waiting for Magnússon out brigade to start.

Ball comes over, he dosnt believe Frankie will make it (no idea why he decided to come that far out?!) so decides to try clear but mis kicks and they score - bad mistake but not the worst performance tonight and generally been better recently. 

But obviously we need a scape goat for tonight, and you can’t possibly berate Smith and Bryan for not clearing the ball for 2nd goal, or Flint for stupidly getting sent off...: 

Regarding Smith and Bryan, I’m sure they were the two culprits who let Ameobi run through and score the winner for Bolton. I hate to criticise KS who’s been outstanding but we need to be less naive  and commit the ‘clever fouls’ sometimes. 

[Gert Mare]

@Port Said Red You are officially a jinx! 

[Berkshire Red]

I think Magnússon played well tonight, he was winning every aerial battle. Preston were targeting that left side in first half and think he covered well for Bryan on several occasions

Running towards the ball for their first goal he is not aware of what's behind him. Fielding however can see what's going on and should have shouted to clear at first opportunity. I blame frankie on this occasion and worry while he is a brilliant shot stopper, he doesnt command the defence well and is poor coming off his line .. caught in no mans land for goal today.

I think mags had a good game tonight and we looked a lot weaker in defence when he went off 

[Mr Popodopolous]

49 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Been saying for ages he has a balance / agility issue - never looks balanced or comfortable 

Can’t cope with English football IMO

Hes mid 20s , not a fledgling youngster 

Not good enough IMHO (If we are aiming to be a challenging Champ Club)

Never looked like he is IMHO

And any improvement in 2 seasons with us ? 

Starting to agree. I thought he was not too bad at times in the Autumn, early Winter and had some hopes, but these errors are becoming too frequent, a worrying pattern.

Balance and agility... Yeah, when players press him, harry him, run at him or get physical..there seems to be an issue for sure!

I also am coming around to the view, that our high pressing, possession based attacking gameplan and him... Don't suit each other.

Yes he plays well for Iceland and v decent sides too...(Croatia, Ukraine, Turkey), but Iceland do sit quite deep, are more likely to counter attack and less emphasis on playing out. Maybe he just isn't that suited to us and our setup.

[BarnzFM]

He’s a young player still developing in a position you don’t tend to master until 26-28 (see Flint) let’s not be to hard on him, I do wonder how much training he gets at centre back given the prefered partnership is Flint and Baker, he’s potentially one of those players that would benefit for a consistent run of games in one position. Saying that we can’t risk him at centre back - he’s in that position that you see a lot of aspiring centre backs in, where they are better off playing as a full back until they understand the game more. 

In this case I do think Frankie is just as much to blame as mags but as always we need a scapegoat and Mags is just that., I don’t see anyone blaming Bryan and Smith for the second goal.....

[Olé]

Before I say this, let me say I am no Magnússon apologist and have spent more time in the "he makes too many mistakes" brigade - particularly at left back. But I do think both this season and last, there are flashes of a really good central defender, and that was true last night in spades.

To blame him for last night would be laughable, personally I thought Fielding turned a mis-kick into an easy goal (and surely it's his job to call), while Magnússon actually looked about our best player at times, he has had 2 of our 4 shots on target (a shot from the edge of the box and a point blank header), made one goal saving far post header, and I can think of several other good touches too playing out of defence (one where he very casually lifted the ball over their striker out to Joe Bryan).

The issue, unfortunately, is exactly as both @petehinton and @Mr Popodopolous have highlighted - he can't deal with quick direct teams. I'm not sure it's physical, I've seen him stand up to stronger opponents in the air in slower tempo games. The issue is speed of thought and pressure, when forced to make quick decisions he isn't composed and produces mistakes. I don't know if you can ever coach that out of him, he is okay in the air but gets unnerved by not having time to put his foot on the ball when it comes to him on the ground. Those that say he will make a very good player in Europe but not England are most likely spot on, sadly.

[Aaron-Bcfc]

League One defender at best. Seems to get a free ride off many of our fans because he's Icelandic, milks clapping the fans at the end, and is funny on social media.

Nobody wanted Derrick Williams at this level but he was more solid at both centre back and left back than Magnússon.

[Flagon]

9 minutes ago, Olé said:

Before I say this, let me say I am no Magnússon apologist and have spent more time in the "he makes too many mistakes" brigade - particularly at left back. But I do think both this season and last, there are flashes of a really good central defender, and that was true last night in spades.

To blame him for last night would be laughable, personally I thought Fielding turned a mis-kick into an easy goal (and surely it's his job to call), while Magnússon actually looked about our best player at times, he has had 2 of our 4 shots on target (a shot from the edge of the box and a point blank header), made one goal saving far post header, and I can think of several other good touches too playing out of defence (one where he very casually lifted the ball over their striker out to Joe Bryan).

The issue, unfortunately, is exactly as both @petehinton and @Mr Popodopolous have highlighted - he can't deal with quick direct teams. I'm not sure it's physical, I've seen him stand up to stronger opponents in the air in slower tempo games. The issue is speed of thought and pressure, when forced to make quick decisions he isn't composed and produces mistakes. I don't know if you can ever coach that out of him, he is okay in the air but gets unnerved by not having time to put his foot on the ball when it comes to him on the ground. Those that say he will make a very good player in Europe but not England are most likely spot on, sadly.

Yeah I think he is pretty sound when it comes to generally clearing the ball and when playing out without the other team pressing. The problem is he is technically poor when it comes to trying to do basic things like shielding the ball plus as you say losing his composure when he is put under pressure and closed down quickly. 

 

[Cowshed]

37 minutes ago, Olé said:

Before I say this, let me say I am no Magnússon apologist and have spent more time in the "he makes too many mistakes" brigade - particularly at left back. But I do think both this season and last, there are flashes of a really good central defender, and that was true last night in spades.

To blame him for last night would be laughable, personally I thought Fielding turned a mis-kick into an easy goal (and surely it's his job to call), while Magnússon actually looked about our best player at times, he has had 2 of our 4 shots on target (a shot from the edge of the box and a point blank header), made one goal saving far post header, and I can think of several other good touches too playing out of defence (one where he very casually lifted the ball over their striker out to Joe Bryan).

The issue, unfortunately, is exactly as both @petehinton and @Mr Popodopolous have highlighted - he can't deal with quick direct teams. I'm not sure it's physical, I've seen him stand up to stronger opponents in the air in slower tempo games. The issue is speed of thought and pressure, when forced to make quick decisions he isn't composed and produces mistakes. I don't know if you can ever coach that out of him, he is okay in the air but gets unnerved by not having time to put his foot on the ball when it comes to him on the ground. Those that say he will make a very good player in Europe but not England are most likely spot on, sadly.

It is easier to improve defensive ability v footballing ability. Position specific training working on stressed realistic game like positions lead to improvement. 

There is a balance to be made. How many mistakes does the player really make leading to goals versus the benefits of his ball playing ability? Does the latter outweigh the former?

It is also about psychology and intent. Does the team identity really allow playing. If it does error has to be accepted as part of that intent, as it is at clubs with players costing multiples of Bristol City's. We can hope for the academy to unearth a John Terry, City cannot afford one, so its a case of practical balance.

I would make a similar case regarding Fielding. Does shot stopping ability outweigh his distribution, commanding of the box and lack of playing outside it.

[Super]

31 minutes ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

League One defender at best. Seems to get a free ride off many of our fans because he's Icelandic, milks clapping the fans at the end, and is funny on social media.

Nobody wanted Derrick Williams at this level but he was more solid at both centre back and left back than Magnússon.

Williams is certainly a level above him. 

[Olé]

11 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

It is also about psychology and intent. Does the team identity really allow playing. If it does error has to be accepted as part of that intent

This is an extremely important point you're making. We are encouraging our team to take risks in trying to pass their way out of everything. Mistakes should be expected as the trade off from the intent, and Mags is particularly susceptible with his nerves with the ball at his feet.

Point of fact last night I lost track of the number of times Joe Bryan gave the ball away with a poorly timed or careless short pass - he has the energy to tidy up well when he does but he was far more of a liability than Mags at making mistakes last night. And you then have Kent on who seems to have license to make errors and give the ball away endlessly, so long as he is showing intent.

Let's not peg Magnússon as not up to it when they're all playing with a degree of anticipated mistakes in their game.

[Bs4Red]

Watching the goal, they’re both massively at fault. 

Frankie has absolutely no need to come out and proves my point of the last year or so that if you want to take the next step in this league, a new keeper is vital, he is a liability still. 

However I’m sorry but a professional footballer should have no problem with putting the ball 40/50 yards up the field, its on the half volley. His only pressure was from Fielding. 

We cannot just excuse it because it isn’t scapegoating, it’s a horrendous mistake at this level. 

[Cowshed]

25 minutes ago, Olé said:

This is an extremely important point you're making. We are encouraging our team to take risks in trying to pass their way out of everything. Mistakes should be expected as the trade off from the intent, and Mags is particularly susceptible with his nerves with the ball at his feet.

Point of fact last night I lost track of the number of times Joe Bryan gave the ball away with a poorly timed or careless short pass - he has the energy to tidy up well when he does but he was far more of a liability than Mags at making mistakes last night. And you then have Kent on who seems to have license to make errors and give the ball away endlessly, so long as he is showing intent.

Let's not peg Magnússon as not up to it when they're all playing with a degree of anticipated mistakes in their game.

And there is the balance again. Do you want full backs to play the FULL length of the pitch, or just be defenders sitting deep defending! 

"We are encouraging our team to take risks in trying to pass their way out of everything" ... To do so, to improve further players are needed who can play. To build out from the back players become centre backs starting at the back playing out rather than defenders . 

Riskless none of it is. Defenders getting rid .. It comes back more.

People should frame (re frame) their thoughts on what they want their football to be. 

 

[Bs4Red]

23 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And there is the balance again. Do you want full backs to play the FULL length of the pitch, or just be defenders sitting deep defending! 

"We are encouraging our team to take risks in trying to pass their way out of everything" ... To do so, to improve further players are needed who can play. To build out from the back players become centre backs starting at the back playing out rather than defenders . 

Riskless none of it is. Defenders getting rid .. It comes back more.

People should frame (re frame) their thoughts on what they want their football to be. 

 

Couldn’t agree more Cowshed and after our talk yesterday.

The problem for me is our ball playing centre backs I believe are not good enough defensively or on the ball. 

You watch Man City as probably the best example at present, Ottimendi has improved so much as a defender but also his ability to play. 

I don’t think Hörður or Flint have the range of passing or ability imo to play in the same way. 

A massive massive competent for me in this also is the goalkeeper. If he isn’t comfortable with the ball then it’s a killer which I’m afraid I don’t think Frank is. 

 

[phantom]

1 hour ago, Bs4Red said:

However I’m sorry but a professional footballer should have no problem with putting the ball 40/50 yards up the field, its on the half volley. His only pressure was from Fielding. 

To me that was the problem, he has taken his eye off of the ball as Fielding is coming up behind him, and thus shanked his clearance

[Bs4Red]

6 minutes ago, phantom said:

To me that was the problem, he has taken his eye off of the ball as Fielding is coming up behind him, and thus shanked his clearance

Possibly mate just think at that level it’s inexcusable. I’d be disappointed to do that when playing myself. 

Always told as a defender if you’re unsure take responsibility. Once he’s done that, he has to clear it. 

All perception, but I totally also agree that Frankie has no reason to of come out for that ball.

[Cowshed]

39 minutes ago, Bs4Red said:

Couldn’t agree more Cowshed and after our talk yesterday.

The problem for me is our ball playing centre backs I believe are not good enough defensively or on the ball. 

You watch Man City as probably the best example at present, Ottimendi has improved so much as a defender but also his ability to play. 

I don’t think Hörður or Flint have the range of passing or ability imo to play in the same way. 

A massive massive competent for me in this also is the goalkeeper. If he isn’t comfortable with the ball then it’s a killer which I’m afraid I don’t think Frank is. 

 

Out today, Man City .. 

Two weeks ago I was watching a BCFC  academy team play out from the back, with CB's splitting wide and very deep. Children including goal keepers comfortable on the ball. Goal Keepers stood fifteen metres outside the goal joining in play. Kids attempting and at times succeeding with Intricate interplay building through the thirds..

Maybe its in the post but years off.

Meanwhile for me its slow progression. And it starts at the back. Outline principles. Look at realistic improvements that can be made short term.

 

[Bs4Red]

6 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Out today, Man City .. 

Two weeks ago I was watching a BCFC  academy team play out from the back, with CB's splitting wide and very deep. Children including goal keepers comfortable on the ball. Goal Keepers stood fifteen metres outside the goal joining in play. Kids attempting and at times succeeding with Intricate interplay building through the thirds..

Maybe its in the post but years off.

Meanwhile for me its slow progression. And it starts at the back. Outline principles. Look at realistic improvements that can be made short term.

 

The difference these days is when I implement my coaching we don’t have positions up until around 14 years of age because we want everyone to be comfortable on the ball. 

Also you could put a child in goal who ends up being excellent outfield. This is being used quite a lot now. 

The modern day goalkeeper is so much more than a shot stopper.

massively agree the progression is there to see mate. Just needs some more fine tuning 

[Robin1988]

4 hours ago, BarnzFM said:

I don’t see anyone blaming Bryan and Smith for the second goal

They should. Smith's original header is crap, and then his defending is even worse.

[Spike]

2 hours ago, Olé said:

This is an extremely important point you're making. We are encouraging our team to take risks in trying to pass their way out of everything. Mistakes should be expected as the trade off from the intent, and Mags is particularly susceptible with his nerves with the ball at his feet.

Point of fact last night I lost track of the number of times Joe Bryan gave the ball away with a poorly timed or careless short pass - he has the energy to tidy up well when he does but he was far more of a liability than Mags at making mistakes last night. And you then have Kent on who seems to have license to make errors and give the ball away endlessly, so long as he is showing intent.

Let's not peg Magnússon as not up to it when they're all playing with a degree of anticipated mistakes in their game.

To be fair if anyone gets stick about losing the ball it's Kent. He's a winger so he needs to run at players with intent, that's a part of his role in the team. The crazy thing is Kent's only real issue is his decision making, he can beat 1-2 players and then when he needs to make the simple pass or get the ball in he'll try and beat another and fail which results in him losing the ball, this is all down to experience and the man management, this is exactly what a good development team will take him aside and talk to him about. At this point in his career after every game he should be hearing "if you beat the man and there is an option to offload the ball, do it!", I think if he actually did that there would be a lot more players singing his praises than abusing him.

Back to Hodor, he's a CB, if we're trying to play the play it out from the back game then he needs to be sold because he's not that center back and I don't think any amount of time will change that. He doesn't have the vision or the composure and whilst time will improve his confidence that doesn't necessarily mean his composure in a difficult situation will improve if he's naturally prone to panicking, which in my opinion he is. Magnússon hit's me as a player who would be better playing the long ball and whilst that may not be what LJ wants it just reaffirms to me that Hodor is not the player he needs. Bottom line is Baker and Flint are our CB's, Hodor is not a LB in any way shape or form so logically we would sell Hodor and look to buy a defensive minded left back with the composure to play a pass under pressure to replace him. We'll then have Baker, Flint and Wright as our options for CB with space to add another for competition/cover and we'd have the much needed LB allowing Bryan to play in the midfield and even have a game off when he needs rest or needs the wake up call that he's not immune to the bench. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

I think with Kent, if he played higher up the pitch as more of a front 3, if we had 3 central midfielders...could attack with more freedom and losing the ball wouldn't be such an issue. However, that trade-off would mean changing how we have played this season to accommodate him in this. Would it be worth it? Possibly not, but his losing of the ball would arguably be less exposed in this set up. Whether it would be worth it? Different debate entirely.

[Super]

47 minutes ago, Robin1988 said:

They should. Smith's original header is crap, and then his defending is even worse.

Korey is the golden boy thats why.

[robin_unreliant]

Whatever the merits, or otherwise, of Hörður, I think we let in far too many soft goals. It seems to invariably be put down to 'individual errors'. However our style of play must be contributing to this to some extent.

Last season we were very vulnerable to being caught on the break. That does seem to have improved. However Flint spends a lot of time in the opposition box, waiting for long throws or set pieces. LJ does seem to like the team to push up and press high up the pitch. Are we paying for this by being less solid at the back? 

It is easy to pick out Korey for the second goal but how open were we at that point? In a way I like having a coach who prefers to push on and take a risk. When it works it is great but recently we just seem to be too easy to score against.

[Cowshed]

2 hours ago, Bs4Red said:

The difference these days is when I implement my coaching we don’t have positions up until around 14 years of age because we want everyone to be comfortable on the ball. 

Also you could put a child in goal who ends up being excellent outfield. This is being used quite a lot now. 

The modern day goalkeeper is so much more than a shot stopper.

massively agree the progression is there to see mate. Just needs some more fine tuning 

A topic for another day.

I know many parents do not get it, and some do not want to as little Johnny has to play there ... And many Junior clubs are not that enlightened.  

Top work.

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

5 hours ago, Olé said:

Before I say this, let me say I am no Magnússon apologist and have spent more time in the "he makes too many mistakes" brigade - particularly at left back. But I do think both this season and last, there are flashes of a really good central defender, and that was true last night in spades.

To blame him for last night would be laughable, personally I thought Fielding turned a mis-kick into an easy goal (and surely it's his job to call), while Magnússon actually looked about our best player at times, he has had 2 of our 4 shots on target (a shot from the edge of the box and a point blank header), made one goal saving far post header, and I can think of several other good touches too playing out of defence (one where he very casually lifted the ball over their striker out to Joe Bryan).

The issue, unfortunately, is exactly as both @petehinton and @Mr Popodopolous have highlighted - he can't deal with quick direct teams. I'm not sure it's physical, I've seen him stand up to stronger opponents in the air in slower tempo games. The issue is speed of thought and pressure, when forced to make quick decisions he isn't composed and produces mistakes. I don't know if you can ever coach that out of him, he is okay in the air but gets unnerved by not having time to put his foot on the ball when it comes to him on the ground. Those that say he will make a very good player in Europe but not England are most likely spot on, sadly.

The real problem is his all of his good points are totally undone by his hesitancy, his lack of physical ability (at times) and his casualness at other times, all of this impacts upon his team mates most of whom must think WTF is he going to do now, I am not seeking to exonerate Fielding at all for his part in the first goal but I suspect even Fielding must have thought WTF do I do here and how many times does he get outmuscled on the byline?, 4 times I can recall twice resulting in goals.

His mistakes tend to be so glaring that they far too often cost us goals and his overall play where you know he will need rescuing when either being easily outmuscled or being far too casual, the whole package makes him unreliable at this level IMHO.

[Major Isewater]

7 hours ago, Aaron-Bcfc said:

League One defender at best. Seems to get a free ride off many of our fans because he's Icelandic, milks clapping the fans at the end, and is funny on social media.

Nobody wanted Derrick Williams at this level but he was more solid at both centre back and left back than Magnússon.

I did . I thought DW was a good defender but not so great on the offensive .

 

[Major Isewater]

3 hours ago, robin_unreliant said:

Whatever the merits, or otherwise, of Hörður, I think we let in far too many soft goals. It seems to invariably be put down to 'individual errors'. However our style of play must be contributing to this to some extent.

Last season we were very vulnerable to being caught on the break. That does seem to have improved. However Flint spends a lot of time in the opposition box, waiting for long throws or set pieces. LJ does seem to like the team to push up and press high up the pitch. Are we paying for this by being less solid at the back? 

It is easy to pick out Korey for the second goal but how open were we at that point? In a way I like having a coach who prefers to push on and take a risk. When it works it is great but recently we just seem to be too easy to score against.

Korey was isolated he did well to get anything on the ball , the rest of the team just switched off. 

[bristolcitysweden]

Watching a game of English football is a total nightmare. Head under shoulder and hundreds of technical mistakes under a game..

What the **** did Frank Fielding do? Zero understanding of the game!