Smoke

[BobBobSuperBob]

46 minutes ago, Coombsy said:

They may of had a kid take it in for them as they not allowed to check a minor 

Sad - I thought the days of sending boys down the pits had gone 

[Up The City!]

6 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

I agree with the rationale, and as someone with very very severe asthma, I think its appropriate the club responds, but I'm very glad that this may not necessarily constitute a life ban. Some sort of discipline is obviously, legally in order, but to deprive someone of the opportunity to visit AG forever shocks me.

Surely they have deprived themselves of the oppertunity of visiting Ashton Gate by flouting the law and the ground regulations?

[iamsober]

1 hour ago, Rednwhiterob said:

Smoke bombs are up there with drums as being a complete anti-social annoyance.

Anyone caught with either should be awarded an ASBO and given a really nasty Chinese burn.

don't disagree with you but unfortunately drums are not banned. Unless it has be in the last 2/3 years

[iamsober]

2 hours ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

Booooo

?

to what?

[Red-Robbo]

44 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said:

 to deprive someone of the opportunity to visit AG forever shocks me.

Well, at least a season, is what the bloke said, and I think that's fair enough for a first offence if done in ignorance of the law and with no malice.

Hopefully this thread will alert those thinking of a repeat that it isn't worth it.

[Negan]

13 minutes ago, iamsober said:

?

to what?

To the decision to ban them.. 

[Northern Red]

I'm just surprised that nobody's yet accused the club of lying about a supporter having an asthma attack. 

[Dollymarie]

3 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

I'm just surprised that nobody's yet accused the club of lying about a supporter having an asthma attack. 

I can vouch that someone did. Was in the disabled section on the side of the South Stand that is now unreserved. Saw the medical people there. 

[BCFC Jimmer]

On 05/08/2017 at 17:12, JulieH said:

Although not working today I understand from other officers that 2  Bcfc fans have been arrested for these smoke grenades.

no other details known at this stage but will update once more known.

hope everyone is ok

I find it rather facsinating how the police barely have enough funding to patrol the streets anymore, yet somehow have the time to monitor and post on an independent football fans forum. 

It's a bizarre world we live in nowadays, isn't it?

Oh, and yes smoke bombs are against the law and blah blah blah, but it is mildly amusing how people have got their knickers in such a twist about something which is largely trivial in the grand scheme of things. I wonder if the people having a go reserve the same contempt for tax dodgers, corruption, racism or things that actually are damaging society.  What a parodox that a (admittedly a bit naive) football fan messing around with a smoke bomb is set upon as if he has beaten up an old lady. Grow up please!

 

 

 

 

[RedLionLad]

A warning message on the big screens or an announcement before both kick-offs might stop this from happening .......if only to save a young lad's future support of BCFC.

[iamsober]

37 minutes ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

To the decision to ban them.. 

The law has been broken no choice!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Collis1 said:

I find it rather facsinating how the police barely have enough funding to patrol the streets anymore, yet somehow have the time to monitor and post on an independent football fans forum. 

It's a bizarre world we live in nowadays, isn't it?

Oh, and yes smoke bombs are against the law and blah blah blah, but it is mildly amusing how people have got their knickers in such a twist about something which is largely trivial in the grand scheme of things. I wonder if the people having a go reserve the same contempt for tax dodgers, corruption, racism or things that actually are damaging society.  What a parodox that a (admittedly a bit naive) football fan messing around with a smoke bomb is set upon as if he has beaten up an old lady. Grow up please!

 

 

 

 

@JulieH says: "Although not working today...". By the looks of it JulieH is posting in her own time and probably using her own facilities (and not the forces time or using the forces facilities as you seem to be implying). She might genuinely be taking an interest in BCFC because she's a fan and passing on knowledge she has to fellow reds? Who knows? It looks like you you're the one with a bizarre attitude.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. All contemptible, however this is the football chat section of OTIB, talking about an event at a BCFC football match. If this was a political forum bleating about all of society's ills, maybe you'd have a point.

It appears that you are trying to paint the 'football fan messing around with a smoke bomb' as some butter wouldn't melt, whiter than white angel and that maybe we should be feeling sorry for him/her (I'll put in a sarcasm alert just in case you don't recognise it).

Maybe people do need to grow up, stop making mountains out of mole hills etc.? And maybe the arguments of an apologist should stop also?
Glass houses, stones and all that.

[Lrrr]

I used to have asthma but grew out of it, however I was caught a few times in places which had smoke bombs, not always football and sometimes smoke machines in night clubs etc. I didn't consider myself to have it very bad, but found when I was in the vicinity of them that breathing became a lot harder and wasn't very pleasant when you're simply trying to breath normally again. If anything I also found it harder to watch the football as well depending on the size of the stand you were in, expect it would be thinner at Ashton Gate with no immediate roof overhead for the majority.

[Port Said Red]

I understand the nanny state arguments and to a lesser extent the suggestion that we are over reacting to what see is harmless fun, but there are so many legal ways to make the match day fun I don't understand why someone would risk being banned for these smoke flares.

We should be concerned that so many got in the ground on Saturday, when you read how seemingly innocuous items are used to smuggle explosives into crowded areas, how easy do people think it would be to alter the contents of one of these flares?

[Monkeh]

10 hours ago, Tuggin over Tomlin said:

To the decision to ban them.. 

it's the law, the club have to act, they are already going to be fined for it, 

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

it's the law, the club have to act, they are already going to be fined for it, 

No, it says they 'could' be fined for it

[Monkeh]

Just now, Phileas Fogg said:

No, it says they 'could' be fined for it

they will be, they have been warned in the past about it, I remember this same thread when we got promoted, I think the smoke bomb hit @Dollymarie on the head that day, dying her hair red for a bit, 

[WTFiGO!?!]

32 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I understand the nanny state arguments and to a lesser extent the suggestion that we are over reacting to what see is harmless fun, but there are so many legal ways to make the match day fun I don't understand why someone would risk being banned for these smoke flares.

We should be concerned that so many got in the ground on Saturday, when you read how seemingly innocuous items are used to smuggle explosives into crowded areas, how easy do people think it would be to alter the contents of one of these flares?

I'm just about, and finally some may say, coming of an age whereby 'fun' and breaking rules can actually be mutually exclusive.  

I feel sad for the yoof of today at football as it's had all the fun squeezed out of it.  

The club facilitating 'fun' is a contradiction in my view and their attempts at trying to are always as naff as when Dads try to be down with their kids.  

The best thing the club has ever orchestrated was when the mascots kicked off and that was because it went wrong!

I read the other day that the average age of a football attendee is now 50, in 1990 it was 27.  I think that explains it all.  

Nowadays the important thing is a 5 paged mothers' meeting and the restoration of some good old law and order around here!  

Just glad I'm not a kid anymore.

Bring back National Service.

[Dollymarie]

4 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

they will be, they have been warned in the past about it, I remember this same thread when we got promoted, I think the smoke bomb hit @Dollymarie on the head that day, dying her hair red for a bit, 

Indeed! Took over a fortnight to finally wash out! 

[Mr Popodopolous]

10 hours ago, iamsober said:

The law has been broken no choice!

Ultimately, yes.

If the club decided to ignore,go easy or turn blind eye at this stage then I suspect we'd be in some bother.

[Guest]

I suspect that the crack down on this will be because there are subscribers to the Broken Window theory at the top, along with the need for H&S - there is no getting away from the past on this.

Looking through this thread shows there is no compromise on views for or against smoke (in the majority of cases), so those at the top will win the argument just because they hold all the cards.

[Cowshed]

12 hours ago, iamsober said:

The law has been broken no choice!

That is not correct. Football clubs can impose their own arbitrary bans without civil/criminal proceedings. Post conviction/hearing/bail the club will act as it sees appropriate.

[Cowshed]

22 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

@RedM @Cowshed

I read somewhere that in the last 30 odd years or so, the number of cars on the road or owned in the UK had doubled. That might have something to do with increased asthma etc...or gone up by 2/3 anyway the cars thing. Not saying it's the only reason but it perhaps doesn't help.

Either way, it's millions of extra cars on the road. Okay if you're driving, but if not...Flares and smoking are a bit piddling by comparison.

Have a google of the hygiene hypothesis.

I coach kids whose parents withdraw them from activities due to cold/heat/its too wet/its too sunny ... Anything.

People respiratory systems of course will react to pollutants in the atmosphere. But the society we are creating sees kids and adults who are allergic and scared of life and everything.

 

 

[SARJ]

15 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This of course is the other side of the coin.

For all pro pyro arguments- and I say this as someone who thinks they look great and can enhance the atmosphere- doing it can get the club in trouble.

Reported by the ref and could face a fine. Plus far more importantly the asthma case referred to in OP.

The club charge £45 per replica kit, shirts that probably cost a little over £1 to produce. I'm sure they can afford the odd fine here or there.

[shelts]

Smoke gets in your eyes 

[iamsober]

25 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

That is not correct. Football clubs can impose their own arbitrary bans without civil/criminal proceedings. Post conviction/hearing/bail the club will act as it sees appropriate.

"The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985.
It is on offence for a person to enter or attempt to enter a football ground while in possession of a flare, smoke bomb or firework. The sentence for these offences can be as much as three months in prison, and in many cases, fans who have no previous convictions are being given prison sentences for attempting to enter a football ground with a smoke bomb in their pocket as the courts take these offences very seriously."

[Monkeh]

12 minutes ago, SARJ said:

The club charge £45 per replica kit, shirts that probably cost a little over £1 to produce. I'm sure they can afford the odd fine here or there.

and when the HSE shut down parts of the stadium due persistent and repeated breaches of the law?

[Dave L]

3 minutes ago, iamsober said:

"The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985.
It is on offence for a person to enter or attempt to enter a football ground while in possession of a flare, smoke bomb or firework. The sentence for these offences can be as much as three months in prison, and in many cases, fans who have no previous convictions are being given prison sentences for attempting to enter a football ground with a smoke bomb in their pocket as the courts take these offences very seriously."

And that is the situation in a nutshell, and why the club is obliged to take it seriously and act accordingly. They don't have the luxury of being able to pick and choose which laws they obey and which they choose to ignore. There are clearly differing views on smoke devices, but this isn't about whether or not they are a 'good' or a 'bad' thing. It's about obeying the law.

Presumably those who think it's OK to break that law because they believe smoke is harmless and they get enjoyment from it, will have no objection if I come to their houses while they're out and walk away with their TVs and laptops while chanting 'I'm Dave L, I do what I want'. I'd quite enjoy that, and I need a new laptop.

[Cowshed]

4 minutes ago, iamsober said:

"The Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc.) Act 1985.
It is on offence for a person to enter or attempt to enter a football ground while in possession of a flare, smoke bomb or firework. The sentence for these offences can be as much as three months in prison, and in many cases, fans who have no previous convictions are being given prison sentences for attempting to enter a football ground with a smoke bomb in their pocket as the courts take these offences very seriously."

Without conviction NO offence has taken place.

Any football club can impose their own bans without civil/criminal proceedings (no offence). 

A magistrate may choose to imposed no restriction on an individual post court proceeding/conviction. The football club could then decide to ban the individual themselves for a period of their own discretion. Clubs often decide to ban individuals/extend exclusion arbitrarily.

[Phileas Fogg]

Well I'm glad the club have changed their stance from the preposterous idea of a 'lifetime ban'. Utterly absurd inordinate punishment.

Whilst I think smoke bombs look great (I even like the smell!) I can understand others don't and the draconian punishments make bringing them to the stadium simply not worth it.

There's a real gap in the market for a safe alternative.. a safe version that's as visually impressive and coordinated properly could be really good. There must be some budding chemists on OTIB that can devise a formula..