VITAL TO GET BALANCE RIGHT - JOHNSON

[Phileas Fogg]

9 minutes ago, spudski said:

Why is that right Philly...? Lots of kids in foreign countries step up to the plate much younger, as many did many of the older generation. You can go back to the 80s for kids being like that here. I know I was. Just because things have 'moved on' it doesn't mean it's right or the best thing. Some things are, some things aren't...not everything is progress, in fact in many cases it's regression.

 

I was challenging his point at face value.. I think it's a good thing that 6 or 8 year olds don't make bus journeys on their own or that the police or a random neighbour doesn't have licence to 'smack' children round the ear.

His post read like a non-parody version of the twitter account "Old Bob" (which is a very amusing parody)

[spudski]

9 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I was challenging his point at face value.. I think it's a good thing that 6 or 8 year olds don't make bus journeys on their own or that the police or a random neighbour doesn't have licence to 'smack' children round the ear.

His post read like a non-parody version of the twitter account "Old Bob" (which is a very amusing parody)

Why do you think it's not a good idea Philly? 

[Three Lions]

2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

I think you are both missing the point completely.

I asked you how something would work and came back with a lot that was not relevant.

 

2 hours ago, spudski said:

 

I think you are both missing the point completely.

As for what style do I use...I break them so to speak. I knock them down then build them back up. They come in with an attitude that doesn't work. They aren't used to discipline on being told what to do, or taking advice or 'orders'. I speak to the parents and tell them what I'm doing. I've had kids in tears at the beginning...but all of them came good in the end. Better at what they did, better rounded individuals, and stronger all round. Everyone to a person thanked me for it.

.

How is the big one? break them?? knock them down?? how?

 

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

 

TAPS, TIPS and SPIT, peer assessment, self assessment, three sixty review its constant negative and positive feedback. This assessment can be used to create an exciting future for that player. 

same again. How would it work if players as spudski says a cannot take being told things that are negative?

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

Why do you think it's not a good idea Philly? 

I don't know many 6 year olds or 8 year olds who have the maturity to travel from Filton to Cardiff independently. As for allowing policeman or random neighbours to 'smack' children round the ear.. well obviously I wouldn't want that happening, goes without saying really.

It's pretty clear that CA is older than most on this forum, and his views reflect that. It's not applicable to the modern era.

Also, I can see this becoming a long and fairly dull drawn out debate so I won't be replying further. In short; I just don't think children of the age he mentioned should travel such long distances alone and that it's not right for policemen or random neighbours to have carte blanche to physically hurt children in the name of discipline. 

I don't think that makes me, or the theoretical children 'snowflakes' for thinking that however! Just seems like common sense.

[spudski]

4 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

I asked you how something would work and came back with a lot that was not relevant.

 

How is the big one? break them?? knock them down?? how?

 

same again. How would it work if players as spudski says a cannot take being told things that are negative?

Depends on the person...the individual. I make it hard work, I take them out of their comfort zones. I find what their weakness is, then make them do it. If they fail, I make them continue til they can do it, each time giving praise when they do something well. They don't like it at first, but when they realise they can do it with some effort and hard work, they work even harder. 

[spudski]

1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't know many 6 year olds or 8 year olds who have the maturity to travel from Filton to Cardiff independently. As for allowing policeman or random neighbours to 'smack' children round the ear.. well obviously I wouldn't want that happening, goes without saying really.

It's pretty clear that CA is older than most on this forum, and his views reflect that. It's not applicable to the modern era.

Also, I can see this becoming a long and fairly dull drawn out debate so I won't be replying further. In short; I just don't think children of the age he mentioned should travel such long distances alone and that it's not right for policemen or random neighbours to have carte blanche to physically hurt children in the name of discipline. 

I don't think that makes me, or the theoretical children 'snowflakes' for thinking that however! Just seems like common sense.

So the older generation of children including myself during the 80s were perfectly capable of doing this and mature enough, with no problems...but now they aren't!!! Is that progress...children now having to rely on their parents?

Why is that a good thing?

Same for kids having to be driven to school...why are they incapable of getting there themselves?

Seems like regression and dumbing down to me. ;-)

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I will ignore that one because I cannot understand it.

 

Insert the word "clutch" somewhere - anywhere - in there and it all becomes clear.......

[Cowshed]

37 minutes ago, Three Lions said:

I asked you how something would work and came back with a lot that was not relevant.

 

How is the big one? break them?? knock them down?? how?

 

same again. How would it work if players as spudski says a cannot take being told things that are negative?

Assessment by peers can carry more resonance in a young players mind than that of a coach. Particularly younger players. These individuals do care what their friends and team mates think.

Self assessment. Many people can be brutally honest with themselves, and some will display a unrealistic view good or bad of themselves.

Assessment can be negative critical, stressful, but also highly positive as  individuals can have a picture painted of themselves as the player they want to be in future, and a exciting path agreed with the coaches support involving role specific training to work towards that goal.

Coach assessment. Its what you want it to be. You player A are good at these technical elements - ball manipulation, short passing, not as good at receiving, so how good would you be if we worked on your control?  There is a negative sandwiched by a positive.

The means and how it works are finite.

Means can be catered to individuals and be player centred v about solely the team. Critique is encouraged, not hidden or turned away from and looked upon as healthy and above all necessary. Skilled coaching gets young players integrated into that process and internalised (self evaluating) to the point where criticism/observation is welcomed.

[Olé]

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

You’ve either got that “bollox, I’m in charge” confidence or you haven’t. 

Totally agree with your point Dave, but the thing is, there's no such thing as a "bollox, I'm in charge" DNA that automatically confers respect.

What that comes from is experience. People who've been through the wars, come out the other side with success. That will get listened to.

As I said in my prior post, the one thing the younger generation (and I hate generalising them) listen to, is the benefit of relevant experience. 

Someone who brings authority to situations because they've survived them before, does not need to indulge their team with love and care.

They simply provide the valuable leadership of knowing a situation and dictating how it should be overcome. No patting of head required.

LJ is learning on the job, and also can't share experience of having played under top managers. He has limited "been there done it" to share.

It's not a criticism per se, but perhaps a lot closer to the reason why LJ's players won't respond to directness, than any of this "snowflakery".

I also suspect the nature of LJs obsession with innovation makes it hard for him to speak with authority because so much is experimental.

More "let's try this" than "right, we're doing this, no ifs or buts, been in this spot before and came out the other side by using this approach". 

So it's not that "millennial" players can't be shouted at, it's simply that LJ has insufficient experience to take the "bollox, I'm in charge" route.

[Olé]

7 hours ago, spudski said:

Watch that video I posted fellas...it really is well put together and explains many things. It's worth watch and shows it's not the 'snowflake' generations fault.

I watched some of it mate. Still didn't buy a word of it and turned it off before the end*.

- Yes the generation has in some cases become more indulged by parents (but nonsense to say this is universal - plenty of other examples where kids are inspired by single parent or parents to understand the value of things and work hard to achieve them)

- Yes we live in a world where a new generation has technology and social platforms prior generations didn't have, and which stimulate dependency on being acknowledged and appreciated (but nonsense to say real leadership can't quickly cut through it)

Still calling b*ll*cks. If anything it epitomises the excuse culture that transcends EVERY generation, where we create a science or scapegoat from much more basic and obvious failings of our own. "Mistakes were made (but not by me)" as @Jack Dawe pointed out.

*I'll declare some prior here. I can't stand American experts. I've worked with Silicon Valley companies and without generalising, I find Americans are very fond of the identity of doing business, leadership and expertise, far more so than they actually live it or make the necessary sacrifices before they start broadcasting their supposed "experience". Plus they'll write self-help books on literally everything. Some parts of life are complicated. Achieving goals is not. It requires hard work not hot air.

[Frenchay Red]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

I'm basing everything on my coaching experience which covers coaching many hundreds of people...the youngest being 4yo, the oldest being 93....the majority between 12 and 35. It's not something I read...but a day to day experience.

I would imagine after being subjected to your coaching sessions, most of your pupils go down hill very quickly. 

[Bazooka Joe]

So based on this, I guess John Scales will be joining the backroom staff.

It'll be a weight off Johnson's shoulders.

 

[ScottishRed]

8 hours ago, spudski said:

I'm not justifying LJ at all. But I don't think he's making any excuses...just saying it as it is.

Who's suggesting LJ has a massive generational disconnect? Neither me not him.

Unfortunately whatever LJ says will be nit picked.

The bloke is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I can totally relate to what he say's regarding coaching a certain generation.

I've experienced it many times myself. You have to adjust your coaching methods. Yes, it's man management, but when coaching a group of that generation it's completely different to coaching the 35yo + generation.

You have to completely change your tact and approach.

In fact it's something we had to address and discuss in meetings before the coaching day started. On how to get the best out of a certain generation. And he's right when he mentions 'communication'...getting them to actually talk and communicate was an absolute ball ache. Getting feedback was hard. So many suffering from anxiety...worried what their peers thought. Didn't like speaking openly in a group. Worried if they got it wrong...what the coach or their peers would think. In fact we had an exercise where we would pair them up and get one another to critique their technical ability, and tell one another where they were getting it right or wrong. This to show their understanding and also to promote communication. They as a majority ( not all ) failed miserably. They just didn't want to speak openly and honestly. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the other, felt anxious in doing so, clammed up, didn't want to say the wrong thing in front of their peer or coach. Worried what others thought. Became nervous and inevitably when under that pressure under performed.

I could go on...but the fact it was one of the most talked about problems in morning meetings before coaching, just tells you how big a problem it has become.

One of the solutions was to bring out an coaching app that they could refer to. It was like a comfort blanket for them.

There is a whole generation that has grown up with phones and computers with social media. During their formative years, it's these devises that they turned to for comfort. It goes right back to parenting...parents have busy lives, so they pack their kids off with these devises to their rooms. The knock on effect, is that this generation have become addicted to this technology and it gives them the same security and comfort as what parents did to their children in older generations. Because their is less communication in talking face to face with someone, and that natural bonding, this new generation find it harder when under pressure in a 'natural' situation.

I could go on...but it's a massive problem.

Of course it's not every person...but there is a massive proportion that are.

@Olé and @Mr Popodopolous

Watch that video I posted fellas...it really is well put together and explains many things. It's worth watch and shows it's not the 'snowflake' generations fault.

I would not disagree that we have a societal problem with technology and the way that it is affecting social interaction.

It should be a concern to all of us because its not going away and in fact will increase with many people now not actually requiring to leave their homes to work, shop or be entertained.

I would raise two points however,

1. A professional football player today has been in and around coaches and team mates for some years prior to actually 'working' in it, which is very different from most jobs or professions when they only enter it after completing their education. Sure, when you go 'senior' that is a much more stressed environment than an  academy when you are mixing with people of a highly similar age to you - but its not that different.

2. Why is our HC bringing this up now? Why was it not mentioned in the many press and media interactions since he came here? If it is a problem now it was a problem then. Has he only worked this out/ I don't think so, its simply another excuse. I will give him this though, I have never once heard a HC of a professional football club use this as one of the reasons for failure!

[spudski]

18 minutes ago, Olé said:

I watched some of it mate. Still didn't buy a word of it and turned it off before the end*.

- Yes the generation has in some cases become more indulged by parents (but nonsense to say this is universal - plenty of other examples where kids are inspired by single parent or parents to understand the value of things and work hard to achieve them)

- Yes we live in a world where a new generation has technology and social platforms prior generations didn't have, and which stimulate dependency on being acknowledged and appreciated (but nonsense to say real leadership can't quickly cut through it)

Still calling b*ll*cks. If anything it epitomises the excuse culture that transcends EVERY generation, where we create a science or scapegoat from much more basic and obvious failings of our own. "Mistakes were made (but not by me)" as @Jack Dawe pointed out.

*I'll declare some prior here. I can't stand American experts. I've worked with Silicon Valley companies and without generalising, I find Americans are very fond of the identity of doing business, leadership and expertise, far more so than they actually live it or make the necessary sacrifices before they start broadcasting their supposed "experience". Plus they'll write self-help books on literally everything. Some parts of life are complicated. Achieving goals is not. It requires hard work not hot air.

I agree with your sentiment, but that guy speaks from experience and is an employer. I think you've already come to the conclusion of not wanting to agree with him, because of what you say about the American culture, which to much extent I agree with.

Blimey...this has taken a whole new tangent fella.

All good mate

[Davefevs]

58 minutes ago, Olé said:

Totally agree with your point Dave, but the thing is, there's no such thing as a "bollox, I'm in charge" DNA that automatically confers respect.

What that comes from is experience. People who've been through the wars, come out the other side with success. That will get listened to.

As I said in my prior post, the one thing the younger generation (and I hate generalising them) listen to, is the benefit of relevant experience. 

Someone who brings authority to situations because they've survived them before, does not need to indulge their team with love and care.

They simply provide the valuable leadership of knowing a situation and dictating how it should be overcome. No patting of head required.

LJ is learning on the job, and also can't share experience of having played under top managers. He has limited "been there done it" to share.

It's not a criticism per se, but perhaps a lot closer to the reason why LJ's players won't respond to directness, than any of this "snowflakery".

I also suspect the nature of LJs obsession with innovation makes it hard for him to speak with authority because so much is experimental.

More "let's try this" than "right, we're doing this, no ifs or buts, been in this spot before and came out the other side by using this approach". 

So it's not that "millennial" players can't be shouted at, it's simply that LJ has insufficient experience to take the "bollox, I'm in charge" route.

Totally agree.  The "I’m in charge" comes from the confidence of all of those points you make above.

[ScottishRed]

7 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

There have been an awful lot of very fine managers who did not play at the highest level.  Of current premiership managers none of Arsene Wenger, Eddie Howe, Sean Dyche, David Moyes, Roy Hodgson played much at a high level, and it doesn't seem to have done them any harm.  What many successful managers have in common is a focus on management at a relatively early age.

I suspect when they appointed him they knew it was going to be a bit of a 'journey' and, given that, to be where we are is not a bad place to be.  If we go backwards next season, then that's the time to start asking questions.

Oh, and am I alone in feeling that the notion that he spouts glib meaningless cliches is a bit unjust.  He speaks the way managers speak these days.  It would be refreshing if they didn't, but management speak is everywhere, much as I detest it (as a senior manager myself).

There are indeed many managers who never had much of a playing career to speak of and have been successful, and you missed out two of note,  Jose and Villas Boas. ( Although the later was more successful in getting large settlements after being dismissed).

I don't think that 'show us your medals' is as prevalent in football as it used to be but I do think that if you come from a limited playing background you have to be able to take the players with you very quickly, much more so than if you had a playing career that itself demanded respect, at least initially. 

You are correct in that I assume BS thought there would be a 'journey' and it certainly has been, however, I do get very concerned when our HC talks about a lack of leaders - he has had 4 transfer windows and not insignificant resource to resolve that - is this a sudden epiphany or is the fact that no 'leaders' are prepared to come and play for him or actually he doesn't really want those leaders as they may start asking a few difficult questions, as allegedly happened last season.

The communication comments are ones I find very disturbing, as a senior manager yourself, I am sure you agree that is a concerning statement from an individual in charge of 30 + members of staff.

I think he has done himself no favours in the past week regarding his comments as it only re-enforces the view that there is an increasing chance of us all realising he doesn't actually know what he is doing. 

I sincerely do hope that he is successful here and I think to do so he needs to get some experience into the coaching team quickly.

I am not sure how I interpret the owners recent comments but you could draw the conclusion, maybe incorrectly, that the heat is going to be turned up a notch or two from now onward.

[Nibor]

On 15/05/2018 at 13:51, spudski said:

It's what I've been referring to in other posts re the younger Snowflake millennial generation. 

Trying to manage these kids must be a nightmare. They can't take constructive criticism or being shouted at. It's all about being positive, making them feel wanted, always showing the positives etc.

What LJ is asking, is for them to move 20% closer to our generations way of communicating, whilst he has to Adapt 20% there way... obviously it's not those actual figures, just a figure of speech.

Problem is, it's only going to get worse.

I've hired quite a few of these "snowflakes".  They're no different to any other generation, except maybe a bit better educated with healthier attitudes towards life.  Moaning about kids today just means you're getting old I'm afraid spud.

[Three Lions]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

Depends on the person...the individual. I make it hard work, I take them out of their comfort zones. I find what their weakness is, then make them do it. If they fail, I make them continue til they can do it, each time giving praise when they do something well. They don't like it at first, but when they realise they can do it with some effort and hard work, they work even harder. 

I think at times you need to break your posts down a bit. You come across as contradictory at times. You are not that far from others there but in other posts appear to be saying something different. 

[Olé]

Nothing else to say @billywedlock. Absolutely brilliant. 

(and with reference to another thread at the moment, here is an insightful, well articulated explanation, that would probably be filed under negativity or wouldn't see the light of day if we didn't have somewhere to unpick what happens at our club and what the people we invest our time, money and belief in, say).

[spudski]

22 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I am fortunate to have managed thousands, globally of all age groups . Even taking into account these notable differences , there are a number of human characteristics that really have not changed and a few that have . There are still those that  rise to the top, have more drive, more desire and commitment that others. Over the years , yes things are changed, most notable in the way people communicate and interact. But the basic instincts are there. Common sense in practical terms has reduced, as people do less and less things themselves , but these are evolutions, much like 120 years ago people would probably be familiar with handling a horse, 50 years ago able to change a spark plug, and today not know what is under the bonnet of the car. But when it comes to success , talent shines, and the way in which you lead and manage that talent has evolved with society too, but not just one generation, everyone. It is not related to an age group, but the whole workforce. When I first started working, there were many of the Alex Fergie hair dryer approach, many many. If you did that today, everyone would look at you like a dinosaur.  That is not to say hard talk has gone, far far from it, people want and need straight talking, without any , let us say "Brent esque" bollocks, but clear and qualified support and guidance. Respect. 

If I come to the world of sport, I have worked with many top performers , am personal friends with a number of top 50 (or ex) tennis players, golfers , international cricketers and footballers , some current. I am not sure how some would take to being called the "snowflake generation" and I often have asked what makes for them the best coach or manager. Despite the difference in sports, differences in requirements, single and team sports,  the comment that has always struck me is rather old fashioned. It is about leadership. It is simple, do I believe in this person, what they are telling me, and what it means. It is why Churchill was great in war, and Montgomery got people to do extraordinary things. If we return to football, it is why today Klopp and Pep are making such great results, and even if you hate this, why Warnock got a bunch of misfits into the Prem . 

Lj has not enhanced his image by these recent comments, if anything it has highlighted exactly he he is doomed to fail in the role he has. He is going more in the O'Driscol (who players appreciated as a coach for his technical knowledge) direction than the Dyche/Houghton/Howe way. He is not a leader, he is a coach, possibly, potentially a very good one, but he is never going to lead a squad to perform as a greater sum of it's parts or take the club to the levels it desires. They are making it up and learning on the job, that is no shame as they did not steal the job, but we are at a level where you need to know what you are doing, LJ needed to learn his skills elsewhere at a lower level . He has been lucky that he has been afforded the patience and largesse of Mr Lansdown's wallet, almost no one else gets that gift. In reality, if he did have the natural and innate skill as a leader, that would have been shown by now, and it is missing today as it will be tomorrow. LJ is a number 2 , a coach, should have been pulled into BCFC as the under 23 coach if he was coming back. 

I leave to some millennials to go and sort out Mr snowflake . Really ? 

I agree...I don't think LJ has done himself any favours with this latest interview.

I'm all for managers and coach's talking about the game, like LJ and SoD did, however....some of the things he has come out with lately make you cringe.

The one for me was about sitting in the stand and taking a poll...perhaps it was said tongue in cheek, but it won't come across like that on radio.

The fact he said fans like to see the manager getting passionate on the side line did make me chuckle...because apart from when we scored against Utd, I can't remember much 'passion' or energy being shown.

I know fans like to know as much as possible, but he is quickly doing himself no favours with some of things he says, and it's almost going down a SoD route again.

I think he's a good coach, but increasingly becoming concerned that he might, as you say, not be a leader.

Having said that...Wenger never came across as a 'leader' to me, yet he got players to perform.

Jury is out still for me.

All I know, is that with the system we have in place, any coach or manager would have to agree to working within the boards confines. Plus have to have a good working relationship with SL. That's how we work...so that's limiting.

As for whether LJ is respected by the players and can lead them...I understand the public image we see on matchday is different to the one in the dressing room and on the training pitch.

So who knows...only time will tell.

Good post though BW

[ooRya]

11 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

I am fortunate to have managed thousands, globally of all age groups . Even taking into account these notable differences , there are a number of human characteristics that really have not changed and a few that have . There are still those that  rise to the top, have more drive, more desire and commitment that others. Over the years , yes things are changed, most notable in the way people communicate and interact. But the basic instincts are there. Common sense in practical terms has reduced, as people do less and less things themselves , but these are evolutions, much like 120 years ago people would probably be familiar with handling a horse, 50 years ago able to change a spark plug, and today not know what is under the bonnet of the car. But when it comes to success , talent shines, and the way in which you lead and manage that talent has evolved with society too, but not just one generation, everyone. It is not related to an age group, but the whole workforce. When I first started working, there were many of the Alex Fergie hair dryer approach, many many. If you did that today, everyone would look at you like a dinosaur.  That is not to say hard talk has gone, far far from it, people want and need straight talking, without any , let us say "Brent esque" bollocks, but clear and qualified support and guidance. Respect. 

If I come to the world of sport, I have worked with many top performers , am personal friends with a number of top 50 (or ex) tennis players, golfers , international cricketers and footballers , some current. I am not sure how some would take to being called the "snowflake generation" and I often have asked what makes for them the best coach or manager. Despite the difference in sports, differences in requirements, single and team sports,  the comment that has always struck me is rather old fashioned. It is about leadership. It is simple, do I believe in this person, what they are telling me, and what it means. It is why Churchill was great in war, and Montgomery got people to do extraordinary things. If we return to football, it is why today Klopp and Pep are making such great results, and even if you hate this, why Warnock got a bunch of misfits into the Prem . 

Lj has not enhanced his image by these recent comments, if anything it has highlighted exactly he he is doomed to fail in the role he has. He is going more in the O'Driscol (who players appreciated as a coach for his technical knowledge) direction than the Dyche/Houghton/Howe way. He is not a leader, he is a coach, possibly, potentially a very good one, but he is never going to lead a squad to perform as a greater sum of it's parts or take the club to the levels it desires. They are making it up and learning on the job, that is no shame as they did not steal the job, but we are at a level where you need to know what you are doing, LJ needed to learn his skills elsewhere at a lower level . He has been lucky that he has been afforded the patience and largesse of Mr Lansdown's wallet, almost no one else gets that gift. In reality, if he did have the natural and innate skill as a leader, that would have been shown by now, and it is missing today as it will be tomorrow. LJ is a number 2 , a coach, should have been pulled into BCFC as the under 23 coach if he was coming back. 

I leave to some millennials to go and sort out Mr snowflake . Really ? 

A good, well thought out post.

However, whilst I don't have the vast experience that you clearly do, I do have the experience of being a parent of a 7 year old, whilst myself being in my 50's.

Children today are treated vastly different than when I was a child myself, and personally I do believe that this does bring it's own range of issues.

When I was my son's age, I would be out all day with my friends - just popping home to eat, I walked to school with my friends, I caught buses with my friends. We had fun together, we fought together, we dealt with things together and we developed together.

Today, I see parents taking their children to the local park and staying with them whilst they are there. I see parents driving their children to school and picking them up again (and I live in a village FFS!) I see children coming home from school and disappearing into their bedrooms with their keyboards and mobile phones, until time to go to bed.

Do I see myself as a better person for the way I was brought up? Well, that's debatable, but I would definitely say that I am a stronger person for it.

I'm reminded of a friend I once had. When we were children he wasn't allowed to mix and join in with the rest of us, and was basically brought up in the same way that today's children are. Whist he definitely had a comfortable/happy/safe upbringing, he certainly didn't get the opportunity to develop his own inner strength. This was sadly highlighted later in life, when the first time he had to deal with a major setback he couldn't deal with it, and ended up trying to take his own life. An extreme example I know, and I'm not saying that all modern children are this weak, but I can categorically say that any other of my friends would have comfortably dealt with the issues that he faced.

A bit of a ramble, and of course a generalisation, but in short I can understand what LJ is trying to say re the "millennials".  They do tend to "need a cuddle", because that's all they have ever known.

However, it is what it is, and isn't going to change. So LJ needs to find the best way to deal with it.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Interesting take on this from a player a similar age to LJ.

Higher levels of course, but worth a look- stuff he said about generations (LJ) had some validity for sure IMO.

Quote

But the United boss' approach has been consistent throughout his career, according to Deco. The 40-year-old suggested modern players have a different mentality when it comes to criticism.

This isn't 70's v now, this is changes even within the modern era.

[spudski]

54 minutes ago, ooRya said:

A good, well thought out post.

However, whilst I don't have the vast experience that you clearly do, I do have the experience of being a parent of a 7 year old, whilst myself being in my 50's.

Children today are treated vastly different than when I was a child myself, and personally I do believe that this does bring it's own range of issues.

When I was my son's age, I would be out all day with my friends - just popping home to eat, I walked to school with my friends, I caught buses with my friends. We had fun together, we fought together, we dealt with things together and we developed together.

Today, I see parents taking their children to the local park and staying with them whilst they are there. I see parents driving their children to school and picking them up again (and I live in a village FFS!) I see children coming home from school and disappearing into their bedrooms with their keyboards and mobile phones, until time to go to bed.

Do I see myself as a better person for the way I was brought up? Well, that's debatable, but I would definitely say that I am a stronger person for it.

I'm reminded of a friend I once had. When we were children he wasn't allowed to mix and join in with the rest of us, and was basically brought up in the same way that today's children are. Whist he definitely had a comfortable/happy/safe upbringing, he certainly didn't get the opportunity to develop his own inner strength. This was sadly highlighted later in life, when the first time he had to deal with a major setback he couldn't deal with it, and ended up trying to take his own life. An extreme example I know, and I'm not saying that all modern children are this weak, but I can categorically say that any other of my friends would have comfortably dealt with the issues that he faced.

A bit of a ramble, and of course a generalisation, but in short I can understand what LJ is trying to say re the "millennials".  They do tend to "need a cuddle", because that's all they have ever known.

However, it is what it is, and isn't going to change. So LJ needs to find the best way to deal with it.

Ran out of likes...but very similar in my experience.

My best friend who was wrapped in cotton wool growing up also topped himself. Like your example...couldn't deal with certain stresses, that everyone else I know has dealt with.

Finding his body was one of the most traumatic things I have ever had to deal with, but I did...knowing generations before hand have lived through wars and still do to this day. It's part of life...we have to deal with it.

[Jack Dawe]

1 hour ago, ooRya said:

A good, well thought out post.

However, whilst I don't have the vast experience that you clearly do, I do have the experience of being a parent of a 7 year old, whilst myself being in my 50's.

Children today are treated vastly different than when I was a child myself, and personally I do believe that this does bring it's own range of issues.

When I was my son's age, I would be out all day with my friends - just popping home to eat, I walked to school with my friends, I caught buses with my friends. We had fun together, we fought together, we dealt with things together and we developed together.

Today, I see parents taking their children to the local park and staying with them whilst they are there. I see parents driving their children to school and picking them up again (and I live in a village FFS!) I see children coming home from school and disappearing into their bedrooms with their keyboards and mobile phones, until time to go to bed.

Do I see myself as a better person for the way I was brought up? Well, that's debatable, but I would definitely say that I am a stronger person for it.

I'm reminded of a friend I once had. When we were children he wasn't allowed to mix and join in with the rest of us, and was basically brought up in the same way that today's children are. Whist he definitely had a comfortable/happy/safe upbringing, he certainly didn't get the opportunity to develop his own inner strength. This was sadly highlighted later in life, when the first time he had to deal with a major setback he couldn't deal with it, and ended up trying to take his own life. An extreme example I know, and I'm not saying that all modern children are this weak, but I can categorically say that any other of my friends would have comfortably dealt with the issues that he faced.

A bit of a ramble, and of course a generalisation, but in short I can understand what LJ is trying to say re the "millennials".  They do tend to "need a cuddle", because that's all they have ever known.

However, it is what it is, and isn't going to change. So LJ needs to find the best way to deal with it.

How do you manage to see all that?

[ooRya]

27 minutes ago, Jack Dawe said:

How do you manage to see all that?

"See" in the figurative sense obviously.

I do talk to my son, and talk to parents of other children. So I "see" what they do .

 

Is that OK?

[Merrick's Marvels]

1 hour ago, billywedlock said:

Thought of the day to create meltdown. 

Steve Cotterill as manager and Lee Johnson as head coach. 

Tongue in cheek , but it covers what was missing in  both regimes IMHO.

Have a good day. 

Is 100% the right answer.

Thousands of words on this thread, covering all sorts of hi-falutin' psycho-social claptrap, but this gets to the heart of the matter and nails it, certainly with regard to Johnson's strengths and weaknesses. 

Just a shame you can't ever imagine the two of them getting on or, indeed, the owner having the balls to employ "difficult" people again, no matter how successful they are.

[CotswoldRed]

8 hours ago, billywedlock said:

Thought of the day to create meltdown. 

Steve Cotterill as manager and Lee Johnson as head coach. 

Tongue in cheek , but it covers what was missing in  both regimes IMHO.

Have a good day. 

Tantalising idea. 

Yer on a roll today 

[BRISTOL86]

9 hours ago, ooRya said:

A good, well thought out post.

However, whilst I don't have the vast experience that you clearly do, I do have the experience of being a parent of a 7 year old, whilst myself being in my 50's.

Children today are treated vastly different than when I was a child myself, and personally I do believe that this does bring it's own range of issues.

When I was my son's age, I would be out all day with my friends - just popping home to eat, I walked to school with my friends, I caught buses with my friends. We had fun together, we fought together, we dealt with things together and we developed together.

Today, I see parents taking their children to the local park and staying with them whilst they are there. I see parents driving their children to school and picking them up again (and I live in a village FFS!) I see children coming home from school and disappearing into their bedrooms with their keyboards and mobile phones, until time to go to bed.

Do I see myself as a better person for the way I was brought up? Well, that's debatable, but I would definitely say that I am a stronger person for it.

I'm reminded of a friend I once had. When we were children he wasn't allowed to mix and join in with the rest of us, and was basically brought up in the same way that today's children are. Whist he definitely had a comfortable/happy/safe upbringing, he certainly didn't get the opportunity to develop his own inner strength. This was sadly highlighted later in life, when the first time he had to deal with a major setback he couldn't deal with it, and ended up trying to take his own life. An extreme example I know, and I'm not saying that all modern children are this weak, but I can categorically say that any other of my friends would have comfortably dealt with the issues that he faced.

A bit of a ramble, and of course a generalisation, but in short I can understand what LJ is trying to say re the "millennials".  They do tend to "need a cuddle", because that's all they have ever known.

However, it is what it is, and isn't going to change. So LJ needs to find the best way to deal with it.

Well said. I’m 32 and I’m gobsmacked at the difference between the way children live now compared to when I was of that age, and let’s be honest that’s not a lot of time ago.

Change has been rapid with the advent of social media and people who exist purely within their phones and computers.