MarcusX Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, TomThumb84 said: 5 years ago? If we were going down that route then we should have kept our side from 5 years ago (with a few additions). Bentley Ayling, Flint, D.Williams Hunt, Smith, Pack, Freeman, Bryan Kodjia, Diedhiou Wonder where that side would finish this season?! Obviously a few have wanted to leave and been sold for good money (Ayling, Smith, Freeman aside), but worth a whimsical pre-friday beers ponder!! On paper I'd probably still take: Bentley Kalas over Flint (at champ level, and I loved Flint), Mawson over Ayling/Williams The rest is probably accurate, maybe peak Wells over peak Fam and again at Champ level maybe JD over Bryan - depends which Bryan turns up but hes been found out a bit in the Prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 28 minutes ago, richyy66 said: If you do some digging on the net there is one common factor with Andy Rolls. Both at West Ham and Arsenal these clubs had horrific injury lists while he was there. These are quotes from articles on the net during his time at these clubs. West Ham (2009 - 2014) "Rolls had overseen a department at West Ham that has been besieged by injury problems" Arsenal (2014 - 2018) "This isn’t something that’s happened overnight. Arsenal have been trying to deal with their injury problems since 2014 and, as you’ll see, they’ve steadily been succeeding. On average over the last five seasons, according to Cute Injury, Arsenal have had 30 injuries per campaign. Last season, Arsenal suffered 32 injuries. The season before that, 26, and during the 2014/15 campaign it was a whopping 35." Seriously if you were to employ a leading figure in your medical Department then you would do your homework before doing so. A quick google search on him and you get the picture - He's not very good. So, is Andy Rolls the Harold Shipman of football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 Just now, Harry said: So, is Andy Rolls the Harold Shipman of football? Similar number of “victims”........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, MarcusX said: Enough points? Safe? We're 3 points from the playoffs? I don't know why anyone seriously thinks we might get relegated Hull would’ve thought the same this time last year whilst on the same number of points. Not saying I think we’re likely to do the same as them...just I’ll be happier after a few more wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan said: Hull would’ve thought the same this time last year whilst on the same number of points. Not saying I think we’re likely to do the same as them...just I’ll be happier after a few more wins. No they lost all their goals in January, pretty much literally, and just bombed from there. If anything we’ve increased our goal threat with Palmer returning even if it’s only for 20 minutes a game. That 20 minutes beat Huddersfield in effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardy Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 I think it is becoming very clear that this is no longer bad luck or a coincidence. We have a serious problem & all roads appear to lead to Rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Numero Uno said: Holden is the football Manager not the Sports Scientist. The person in charge of that Department SHOULD be answering the question but strangely it’s Holden who has to face the music instead, not the bloke who has presided over the same issue at other clubs? Seems like until MA’s double interview recently, Dean has had to face the music for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpexile Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: I thought he was Head Coach? I think you know exactly what was inferred !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Seems like until MA’s double interview recently, Dean has had to face the music for everyone. It just makes the reasoning behind his appointment so obvious. You can imagine a Chris Hughton or Paul Cook putting up with this crap and that is why I don’t begrudge Holden a single penny of what he is taking out of the club. It also speaks volumes about the people above him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanburyRed Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Harry said: So, is Andy Rolls the Harold Shipman of football? More Harold Bishop than Harold Shipman.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted February 5, 2021 Report Share Posted February 5, 2021 7 hours ago, cidercity1987 said: Grossly overplayed since Sept/Oct, no surprise at all to hear of this injury I’m glad someone has said it! When we all suggested games in which he’d get a rest, he kept getting wheeled out. First his work rate dropped, then his form and now he’s injured. He started 20 of our first 24 games this season and it was only Diedhiou’s goal flurry that changed that. We could have rotated more but chose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 @cidercity1987 @mozo Agree with you both, absolutely. He has or had an underlying medical condition- Derby used him wisely last season, I wondered why we were playing him into the ground! Especially of late, say within the last month during the colder winter months. Good post from their forum in early December. Quote Is he slowly getting less effective the more minutes he has on the pitch? He had a great start for Bristol in terms of overall performance & assists (4 in 5 games but hasn't registered one on his last 10), if not goals - but against us he looked like the player we saw when he was forced to play too much over lockdown (the one who tired badly after an hour in most games) and after that he was benched for a couple of games. He still stands at only 1 league goal and at this stage doesn't look anywhere near to contributing directly to the 18 goals (12 himself + 6 assists) he got for us by being used more sparingly & kept fresh last season, but is this because Bristol simply have far more attacking threats and aren't reliant on him, or is it because Bristol haven't been managing his game time with quite so much scrutiny? Well I cannot find the post that outlined his medical issue/condition but he definitely had one that meant using him sparingly might,might have been prudent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 My thinking on this is that whatever “fitness training” our players have done is both obscuring sport science’s and the player’s ability to spot fatigue / wear. I just can’t see how a player can go from a position of being warm and stretched to a “tear” in such volume. As a player, unless you are a Sessegnon who tore his hamstring at full-sprint, it is more normal to feel “tightening” first. It is then pushing on that makes that worse. Keep pushing and you tear. We are only getting tears. As per my opening sentence, the triggers for fatigue must be being missed. What has happened to cause this? Have we damaged our player’s bodies through pre-season conditioning to such an extent that a player can no longer feel fatigue nor sports science pick it up. If so, would have serious repercussions for those players going forward too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dolman Pragmatist Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 14 hours ago, Numero Uno said: Fine if semantics mean that much to you. He also picks the team, decides on the formation, works out the shape we will line up with and if Ashton is to believed has the final say on transfers. So basically a Head Coach who is effectively the Manager. I can quite confidently say he ISN’T the Performance Manager, the Club Doctor, Chief Physiotherapist or Head Sports Scientist and therefore should not be getting pushed in front of the bus to explain the clubs atrocious injury and rehabilitation record. You seem to know an awful lot about it, but one thing I do know is that there is a difference between a head coach and a manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, Davefevs said: My thinking on this is that whatever “fitness training” our players have done is both obscuring sport science’s and the player’s ability to spot fatigue / wear. I just can’t see how a player can go from a position of being warm and stretched to a “tear” in such volume. As a player, unless you are a Sessegnon who tore his hamstring at full-sprint, it is more normal to feel “tightening” first. It is then pushing on that makes that worse. Keep pushing and you tear. We are only getting tears. As per my opening sentence, the triggers for fatigue must be being missed. What has happened to cause this? Have we damaged our player’s bodies through pre-season conditioning to such an extent that a player can no longer feel fatigue nor sports science pick it up. If so, would have serious repercussions for those players going forward too. I think you're right, though it's not just pushing through smaller "damage" that causes tears, they can happen suddenly or from impact/trauma. That said, when it's so many muscle tears there has to be an underlying cause and I'd be surprised if they weren't expressing signs or symptoms of damage before going on to cause more severe injury. Perhaps its a culture thing? Holden wants his players to run through walls for him. Is someone putting too much pressure on them to play through the pain? Are they ignoring muscular fatigue and putting it down as par for the course when there is so many games? There's something not right. There's too much history with Rolls. Arsenal were the most injured team in the Premier league while he was there. Think how we went through that L1 campaign with barely any injuries? How have we gone from that to almost as many injuries as we had players that season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 13 hours ago, Cardy said: I think it is becoming very clear that this is no longer bad luck or a coincidence. We have a serious problem & all roads appear to lead to Rolls. And what's also clear, someone's head needs to Roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 10 minutes ago, MarcusX said: I think you're right, though it's not just pushing through smaller "damage" that causes tears, they can happen suddenly or from impact/trauma. That said, when it's so many muscle tears there has to be an underlying cause and I'd be surprised if they weren't expressing signs or symptoms of damage before going on to cause more severe injury. that’s the thing, the likes of O’Dowda felt nothing, then ping, but not through doing anything sudden like sprinting. It’s almost like “they’ve” damaged the “things” that send messages to the brain to say “you’re injured mate, stop exercising”. And whatever they’ve damaged has stopped sports science picking it up too. A huge mess if so. Perhaps its a culture thing? Holden wants his players to run through walls for him. Is someone putting too much pressure on them to play through the pain? Are they ignoring muscular fatigue and putting it down as par for the course when there is so many games? There's something not right. Agree. There's too much history with Rolls. Arsenal were the most injured team in the Premier league while he was there. I don’t think he had such a prominent role then, but... ....if he was influenced in certain methods by his “senior” maybe he took that method to West Ham and now here? So I can’t hang him out to dry, because I don’t know enough, nor the roles of Orme, Proctor and the physios. Think how we went through that L1 campaign with barely any injuries? How have we gone from that to almost as many injuries as we had players that season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Yea the COD one is strange. Painkillers maybe? Surely not though, that would be a scandal if the club were plying them with medication to get through games and they ended up injured. I believe Rolls went from West Ham to Arsenal in 2014. Admittedly Arsenal's problems date back to 2011/2012 but were still prominent up until 2017. I couldn't find any discussions calling out Rolls though through google or twitter. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/arsenal-head-sport-science-west-ham "Rolls had overseen a department at West Ham that has been besieged by injury problems, with the most damaging being that to Andy Carroll, the £15m record signing. The striker only made his first appearance of the season as a substitute in the 2-0 win at Cardiff City on Saturday, having suffered from a long-term foot problem." Looks like he took on a head of sports science role at Arsenal though in his defence, Arsenal's injury woes continued right into 18/19 season after he left. As you say he could have picked up ideas/influence from someone else. Colin Lewin for example was there a lot of that time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Yea the COD one is strange. Painkillers maybe? Surely not though, that would be a scandal if the club were plying them with medication to get through games and they ended up injured. I believe Rolls went from West Ham to Arsenal in 2014. Admittedly Arsenal's problems date back to 2011/2012 but were still prominent up until 2017. I couldn't find any discussions calling out Rolls though through google or twitter. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jan/15/arsenal-head-sport-science-west-ham "Rolls had overseen a department at West Ham that has been besieged by injury problems, with the most damaging being that to Andy Carroll, the £15m record signing. The striker only made his first appearance of the season as a substitute in the 2-0 win at Cardiff City on Saturday, having suffered from a long-term foot problem." Looks like he took on a head of sports science role at Arsenal though in his defence, Arsenal's injury woes continued right into 18/19 season after he left. As you say he could have picked up ideas/influence from someone else. Colin Lewin for example was there a lot of that time too. Not sure why, but I’d not considered painkillers as a possible cause. It’s not just COD though is it? It definitely needs an independent review. If football goes back to normal next season, there’s no guarantee these injuries won’t carry on unless we do a review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said: You seem to know an awful lot about it, but one thing I do know is that there is a difference between a head coach and a manager. Ignore the point being made and concentrate on the semantics. Well done you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lrrr Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Viva Louis Britton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBB Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, markcarter said: 12 weeks takes us to 7 May. Any chance he’ll be back for the final match of the season on 8 May in which Brentford confirm the Championship for them and our relegation to League One? Or given recent injury recoveries, is it more likely to be May 2022 for the match when Rovers send us down to League Two? Surprised you think we’ll still be in with a chance of staying up on the final day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, markcarter said: 12 weeks takes us to 7 May. Any chance he’ll be back for the final match of the season on 8 May in which Brentford confirm the Championship for them and our relegation to League One? Or given recent injury recoveries, is it more likely to be May 2022 for the match when Rovers send us down to League Two? You're not a City fan. Why are you here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WECANDO Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 There's some good news then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 I don’t think we’ll miss him too much, bar his first few games I don’t think he offered much at all. He did however seem capable of creating some sort of partnership with Wells when it was the 2 of them up top. Hopefully comes back strong for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, Carey 6 said: I don’t think we’ll miss him too much, bar his first few games I don’t think he offered much at all. He did however seem capable of creating some sort of partnership with Wells when it was the 2 of them up top. Hopefully comes back strong for next season. Not having a go, but that's one of the best contradictory posts that I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Top Robin Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 He has been poor recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carey 6 Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 Just now, Superjack said: Not having a go, buy that's one of the best contradictory posts that I've ever seen. In what way? I do think he played well for the first 5/6 games when it was a front 2 of him & Wells. I just think he’s been poor ever since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superjack Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 1 minute ago, Carey 6 said: In what way? I do think he played well for the first 5/6 games when it was a front 2 of him & Wells. I just think he’s been poor ever since. Like I said, I'm not having a go, but "I don't think we'll miss him much.... Hopefully comes back strong for next season" is pretty contradictory. I just found it amusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galley is our king Posted February 12, 2021 Report Share Posted February 12, 2021 53 minutes ago, markcarter said: 12 weeks takes us to 7 May. Any chance he’ll be back for the final match of the season on 8 May in which Brentford confirm the Championship for them and our relegation to League One? Or given recent injury recoveries, is it more likely to be May 2022 for the match when Rovers send us down to League Two? How can they "send us down" they will already be there!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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