Bristol Clean Air Zone

[Red DNA]

12 hours ago, Rocking Red Cyril said:

Why are we not supporting clean air agenda. And it's simple if you wanna drive drive electric

I trust you all be on the climate demo tommorrow. College green 12.00 pm

Think I’ll wait a while until the cars that run on ‘green’ hydrogen are available - that’s the one where all the real big smart money is going on. 

in the meantime I’ll keep playing the lottery to get a chance to buy something newer

[Roger Red Hat]

6 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

Is he not due for re-election within the year?

If so why not vote for who ever says,they will not implement the clean air zone in certain(non central) areas of the City

If you're referring to Marvin, he's not running for a third term.

[redsquirrel]

wouldnt surprise  me if the bright sparks were planning a solar power train for a new underground system

[The Fat Controller]

14 hours ago, Sweeneys Penalties said:

thats me buggered then. 

No, it's not that draconian, you just have to pay a charge. 

[Red-Robbo]

As has been pointed out, bringing these in to large cities is compulsory and has been ordered by central government.

London has had a low emission zone through most of the inner M25 area for more than a decade.  Charging depends on the emissions made by your vehicle.  It simply isn't true to say it is a tax on old cars. Nor does it only apply to diesel vehicles. 

[Ska Junkie]

6 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

As has been pointed out, bringing these in to large cities is compulsory and has been ordered by central government.

London has had a low emission zone through most of the inner M25 area for more than a decade.  Charging depends on the emissions made by your vehicle.  It simply isn't true to say it is a tax on old cars. Nor does it only apply to diesel vehicles. 

London, Brum, Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester have decent options that we don't have. The tram system in Manchester is superb and cheap. Why can't we utilise the unused railway lines all over the city and put trams on them? Damn cheaper than the pie in the sky underground.

At the mo, park and ride is the only alternative to paying as I see it.

[weepywall]

5 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

I can just see the dirty air being moved elsewhere as people make longer journeys (creating more air pollution) to avoid driving in to the clear air zone.

Exactly what has happened in Bath.

[Jan Window]

15 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

Not forgetting the £35+ Million squandered on Bristol Energy who've never made a profit and probably never will - well done Marv!

Bristol Energy was set up in 2015 by Mr Rees' predecessor, Independent George Ferguson.  Bristol Energy's business plan 'overly unrealistic'

[TheReds]

If this scheme is all about clean air, and clean air only, then why are people allowed to pay money to pollute the air? Also is this scheme still exempt for Marvin and his buddies in the Council?

As for public transport being the answer, then we are doomed.

 

[redsquirrel]

what they need to do is change the diesel emissions test,instead of seeing if light passes through the exhaust gas, actually measure the harmful gases they are pumping out.  id be very surprised if they got anywhere near as low as a modern petrol engine

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Ska Junkie said:

London, Brum, Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester have decent options that we don't have. The tram system in Manchester is superb and cheap. Why can't we utilise the unused railway lines all over the city and put trams on them? Damn cheaper than the pie in the sky underground.

At the mo, park and ride is the only alternative to paying as I see it.

 

I agree, but that's a different topic. Having read some of the comments I clicked on the map expecting to see a vast swathe of Bristol encompassed by this CAZ, but the reality is it's just the comparatively small number of streets in the city centre.  it doesn't extend south of the river, nor east of Temple Meads nor even into Clifton or Kingsdown.

The vast expansion of double-yellow lines and dropped curbs has made it far more difficult for me to come to football than this will.  In fact, because of parking issues, I choose to take the bus up more often than not these days. Get more of a drink in that way.  

If you drive through the city centre you'll be charged - from next season - if your petrol car doesn't meet Euro standard 4 (which TBH the vast majority will) or your diesel doesn't meet Euro standard 6 (which is a bit more stringent, some older diesels may not).  If you have your last MOT emissions test document, you can check if your vehicle meets these levels here:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_emission_standards

[Roger Red Hat]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Having read some of the comments I clicked on the map expecting to see a vast swathe of Bristol encompassed by this CAZ, but the reality is it's just the comparatively small number of streets in the city centre. 

Indeed. It's like a written version of a John Turner phone in.

[semblar]

I'm lucky in that my work offers a salary sacrifice scheme which with the government rules on the benefit in kind tax effectively means I can lease it for half the headline price. many people are not so lucky or couldn't afford it even if their employer ran the scheme. We need two things to really get people to move over in large numbers:

1. a functional second hand electric car market. That will probably be a few years away, as it will need some of the current new models with better ranges (mine does over 300 miles on a full charge) to come onto that market

2. sufficient on-street infrastructure to allow people with no driveway to charge their car. There is a Post article that converting lamposts to work as charging points was "coming soon"...in November 2017! The chargers in many local park carparks now charge £1 plus 30p per Kwh, a lot more than your household electric but apparently if they used the right scheme it would be possible to get this electricity directly billed to your household account as if you were plugged in on a driveway. An alternative would be to allow culverts to be installed into a pavement (at a sensible cost) so that a charge cable can be run to the car without causing a trip hazard

[Ciderhead433]

7 hours ago, Never to the dark side said:

Is he not due for re-election within the year?

If so why not vote for who ever says,they will not implement the clean air zone in certain(non central) areas of the City

Only people affected are the poorer.

People with older cars living in South Bristol will have to try and find a new way to Avonmouth.

 

Edited November 6, 2021 by Ciderhead433

[Roger Red Hat]

Basically, in the long term, there is going to have to be less cars, whether they be petrol, diesel OR electric. The process of manufacturing them is polluting, along with components like the tyres, and the building of more roads.  

[Red-Robbo]

16 minutes ago, Ciderhead433 said:

Only people affected are the poorer.

People with older cars living in South Bristol will have to try and find a new way to Avonmouth.

 

 

The vast majority of cars pass the requirement. I just used the checker on Gov.UK to see if Mrs R's 13-year-old car (1.8l engine) passed and it does.

I think unless you want to drive through the city centre in an old Bedford van you needn't worry.  

Even then, if you have work in the zone (or are earning under £26K a year) you don't pay.

Edited November 6, 2021 by Red-Robbo

[Maesknoll Red]

Just now, Red-Robbo said:

 

The vast majority of cars pass the requirement. I just used the checker on Gov.UK to see if Mrs R's 13-year-old car (1.8l engine) passed and it does.

I think unless you want to drive through the city centre in an old Bedford van you needn't worry.  

Even then, if you have work in the zone (or are earning under £26K a year) you don't pay.

Or relatively new vans…… both mine, as explained earlier, despite being Euro 5 will be charged.  As another poster asked, if it’s about pollution, why is anyone being allowed to pay tax to pollute?

in all seriousness, I might just buy a 40 year old Land Rover with a V8 in to drive to work, I can drive that straight through the zone with no charge, whereas my modern diesel, built to the spec. in place at the time of it’s build would be less polluting, but charged.

[Red-Robbo]

3 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Or relatively new vans…… both mine, as explained earlier, despite being Euro 5 will be charged.  As another poster asked, if it’s about pollution, why is anyone being allowed to pay tax to pollute?

in all seriousness, I might just buy a 40 year old Land Rover with a V8 in to drive to work, I can drive that straight through the zone with no charge, whereas my modern diesel, built to the spec. in place at the time of it’s build would be less polluting, but charged.

 

There are various reasons why diesels in particular are being encouraged to be phased out, but whether you agree with the emissions guidelines, they are set by the government - not Marvin Rees or BCC.  The zone is forced on the city because the area within it fails European air quality levels. 

They may not help you, but there is £42m worth of loans and grants available to those who say they have to switch vehicles because of this.

[Maesknoll Red]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

There are various reasons why diesels in particular are being encouraged to be phased out, but whether you agree with the emissions guidelines, they are set by the government - not Marvin Rees or BCC.  The zone is forced on the city because the area within it fails European air quality levels. 

They may not help you, but there is £42m worth of loans and grants available to those who say they have to switch vehicles because of this.

It wasn’t long ago there was a definite move to persuade people to move to diesel, no responsibility shouldered for that I see!

 I doubt if the government set the area, including the Portway is a blow to many, it will add miles to my journey as I will have to go out through Abbott’s Leigh and Portbury to get to the motorway and get to work that way, not reducing pollution at all. Either that or a big sweep to the East and back to North Bristol.

I doubt I’ll get a grant, I’ve never qualified for any handout of any kind from the state.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

It wasn’t long ago there was a definite move to persuade people to move to diesel, no responsibility shouldered for that I see!

 I doubt if the government set the area, including the Portway is a blow to many, it will add miles to my journey as I will have to go out through Abbott’s Leigh and Portbury to get to the motorway and get to work that way, not reducing pollution at all. Either that or a big sweep to the East and back to North Bristol.

I doubt I’ll get a grant, I’ve never qualified for any handout of any kind from the state.

 

The area is the area that fails the air quality standard, there is little choice in the matter. Like you, I've crawled up the Portway in rush hour and it's not difficult to see how its incredible heavy use contributes to this poor air quality.

HOWEVER, I agree with everyone who says charging zones simply push cars onto nearby roads, spreading and sometimes exacerbating problems.  When I needed to drive from work in London, the congestion charge pushed me and countless others onto Euston Road, making it a 1mph endless crawl, spewing out fumes that must've blanketed the entire area.

Only weaning  more of us of the need to drive to work by better public transport provision and (in the long-run) better town planning will solve the serious air issues in cities.

[Roger Red Hat]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

the congestion charge pushed me and countless others onto Euston Road, making it a 1mph endless crawl, spewing out fumes that must've blanketed the entire area.

I used to work in London a lot, and that route was a crawl long  before the congestion zone was ever thought of!

[Sir Geoff]

1 hour ago, Ska Junkie said:

London, Brum, Sheffield, Leeds and Manchester have decent options that we don't have. The tram system in Manchester is superb and cheap. DWhy can't we utilise the unused railway lines all over the city and put trams on them? amn cheaper than the pie in the sky underground.

At the mo, park and ride is the only alternative to paying as I see it.

Would have been even cheaper when it was first proposed by BCC and reported in the EP back in the late 70's early 80's.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Roger Red Hat said:

I used to work in London a lot, and that route was a crawl long  before the congestion zone was ever thought of!

 I know, but making it the one CC exempt route through central London turned it into something else.

Obviously, I usually took the tube in, but Fridays I needed to leave for Somerset after work, so I used to go in early and leave at 3 and crawl all the way to the Westway. 

[Sir Geoff]

22 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

It wasn’t long ago there was a definite move to persuade people to move to diesel, no responsibility shouldered for that I see!

 I doubt if the government set the area, including the Portway is a blow to many, it will add miles to my journey as I will have to go out through Abbott’s Leigh and Portbury to get to the motorway and get to work that way, not reducing pollution at all. Either that or a big sweep to the East and back to North Bristol.

I doubt I’ll get a grant, I’ve never qualified for any handout of any kind from the state.

Just put a bike rack over your number plate.

[Roger Red Hat]

1 minute ago, Red-Robbo said:

crawl all the way to the Westway. 

Done it many times, but then I discovered a parallel route to the south that came out at the foot of the Westway. No good after the zone was introduced tho'.

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Done it many times, but then I discovered a parallel route to the south that came out at the foot of the Westway. No good after the zone was introduced tho'.

 

I was working in Portland Place, so Euston Rd, as dreadful as it was, was but 2 minutes drive away, past no CC cameras. I was stuck using it. 

[joe jordans teeth]

47 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

There are various reasons why diesels in particular are being encouraged to be phased out, but whether you agree with the emissions guidelines, they are set by the government - not Marvin Rees or BCC.  The zone is forced on the city because the area within it fails European air quality levels. 

They may not help you, but there is £42m worth of loans and grants available to those who say they have to switch vehicles because of this.

£42 million won’t even touch the surface,just recently bought a second hand car 19 plate and to find one that wasn’t diesel was hard work although I did in the end,obviously people are getting rid of diesels at a rate so I imagine that’s a good thing 

[Sir Leigh of Somerset]

1 hour ago, Roger Red Hat said:

Basically, in the long term, there is going to have to be less cars, whether they be petrol, diesel OR electric. The process of manufacturing them is polluting, along with components like the tyres, and the building of more roads.  

Back to the future.....

[weepywall]

3 hours ago, 22A said:

On Points West last night did they say busses will be charged £100 / day?

If true, the bus company will pass that on to the passengers which fill force many more people off public transport.

I think most buses are Euro 6.

[Robin-hugh-blind]

Another working man's tax, I can't afford a new van. Small business should be exempt, Chelsea tractor should pay double.