Bristol Clean Air Zone

[BTRFTG]

Join the club as we've had the pillock mayor up here expand London's zone to the whole of the inside the M25 whilst adding in another unwanted tunnel that will double traffic through an already choc-o-bloc tunnel link.

Sod all to do with air quality, everything to do with raising money for his stupid schemes. If I wish to go north of the river without paying a toll its a 60 mile, polluting drive.

[pillred]

17 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Starts today…..how long until the area is extended?  Surely within 2 years max 

How cynical (correct) of you.

[exAtyeoMax]

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/bristols-clean-air-zone-now-live/

 

[exAtyeoMax]

https://www.cleanairforbristol.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Small-CAZ-D-Final-2021.pdf

 

[Red-Robbo]

I'm not in favour of these schemes. Having lived with congestion charge in London for yonks, you soon realise that traffic is like water. Damn it up one way, it simply runs another, sometimes with disastrous effects.

The car I drive to games will be exempt from Bristol's charges, so by taking some larger vehicles and vans off the roads, it might actually make my journey options wider and easier - but that's not the point.

The real solution is by taking public transport back under public control and extending its scope and reliability, not to mention actually having a system that reliably tells you where buses are: the so-called First Bus App is a joke in Somerset. 

Last season, I took buses to games, but after the fourth time I found myself stranded because the evening bus back had been cancelled, I gave up and went back on the road. A negative for me and my mates (one of us has to stay sober) and the environment.

The way buses operate is so ******* random. My daughters would take one to school if they could. It's a two-mile journey, but unlike when I was a kid, the roads are too dangerous now to cycle in. They have to have to be there 8:30-8:45. There was a bus, but then First changed the time of arrival in Wells to either 8:05 or 9:05 - making it unusable by children. Result, lots of harassed mums and dads clogging up the roads every morning. 

 

[BCFC Rich]

4 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm not in favour of these schemes. Having lived with congestion charge in London for yonks, you soon realise that traffic is like water. Damn it up one way, it simply runs another, sometimes with disastrous effects.

The car I drive to games will be exempt from Bristol's charges, so by taking some larger vehicles and vans off the roads, it might actually make my journey options wider and easier - but that's not the point.

The real solution is by taking public transport back under public control and extending its scope and reliability, not to mention actually having a system that reliably tells you where buses are: the so-called First Bus App is a joke in Somerset. 

Last season, I took buses to games, but after the fourth time I found myself stranded because the evening bus back had been cancelled, I gave up and went back on the road. A negative for me and my mates (one of us has to stay sober) and the environment.

The way buses operate is so ******* random. My daughters would take one to school if they could. It's a two-mile journey, but unlike when I was a kid, the roads are too dangerous now to cycle in. They have to have to be there 8:30-8:45. There was a bus, but then First changed the time of arrival in Wells to either 8:05 or 9:05 - making it unusable by children. Result, lots of harassed mums and dads clogging up the roads every morning. 

 

I admit this is from memory when I last lived in London (years and years ago). But I'm pretty sure the congestion plays a big part in raising the funds for maintaining, improving and expanding the transport network. Not sure if anyone has figures on that. My personal feeling is the congestion charge ciuold be a good thing as long as money raised goes back into transportation. 

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, BCFC Rich said:

I admit this is from memory when I last lived in London (years and years ago). But I'm pretty sure the congestion plays a big part in raising the funds for maintaining, improving and expanding the transport network. Not sure if anyone has figures on that. My personal feeling is the congestion charge ciuold be a good thing as long as money raised goes back into transportation. 

I didn't mind it centrally, which is excellently served for public transport. Let's be honest, you really don't have to drive in central London unless you're delivering something heavy or working with heavy equipment there, or have a genuine disability. Ken Livingstone's western extension however targeted areas that may have had many miles between tube stations and the suspicion was he left east London alone because he got more votes there. 

[Bas's perfect hattrick]

7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

I'm not in favour of these schemes. Having lived with congestion charge in London for yonks, you soon realise that traffic is like water. Damn it up one way, it simply runs another, sometimes with disastrous effects.

The car I drive to games will be exempt from Bristol's charges, so by taking some larger vehicles and vans off the roads, it might actually make my journey options wider and easier - but that's not the point.

The real solution is by taking public transport back under public control and extending its scope and reliability, not to mention actually having a system that reliably tells you where buses are: the so-called First Bus App is a joke in Somerset. 

Last season, I took buses to games, but after the fourth time I found myself stranded because the evening bus back had been cancelled, I gave up and went back on the road. A negative for me and my mates (one of us has to stay sober) and the environment.

The way buses operate is so ******* random. My daughters would take one to school if they could. It's a two-mile journey, but unlike when I was a kid, the roads are too dangerous now to cycle in. They have to have to be there 8:30-8:45. There was a bus, but then First changed the time of arrival in Wells to either 8:05 or 9:05 - making it unusable by children. Result, lots of harassed mums and dads clogging up the roads every morning. 

 

Totally agree that the UK's public transport is useless (apart from maybe central London). It's been basically sabotaged by years of privatisation and underfunding, and the cuts in the 60s which robbed the country of most of its local train network. 

However, I live in Berlin which has excellent public transport and a decent network of cycle paths, and yet many people still choose to drive. 

Cars are great for convenience, but bad for just about everything else: air and noise pollution, vast areas of the country given over to roads and car parks, road traffic deaths etc. 

I get why some people need to drive - if you have limited mobility, or young kids, when you've got a van load of tools, or when there's no bus/train for your route, or when you're heading to the football with a car full of mates for example. But I have colleagues here who drive to work in the office because it takes 45 mins by bus vs. 30 mins by car - which leads to all the problems I mentioned above and more congestion for people who really need to drive. 

Understand your point about these congestion schemes, but equally I don't think simply making public transport better will drastically reduce the congestion on the roads - not until driving is less comfortable and/or people stop seeing the car as the default method of getting around. Expand the scope of public transport, make it affordable... and make driving more expensive/less convenient. 

Just my opinion and maybe not a popular one, but I hope that car traffic will be restricted in city centres. As you mentioned, the roads are now too dangerous to cycle in - largely I imagine by the sheer volume of traffic. 

[forbespm]

Am I correct I thinking I won't have to pay it if I use the portway park and ride!?

I drive from Gloucester so not really sure about all this.

I regularly go to gigs in Bristol too but will knock that on the head of I 

Have to pay that on top of tickets..doesn't seem good for the economy

[Slippin cider]

28 minutes ago, forbespm said:

Am I correct I thinking I won't have to pay it if I use the portway park and ride!?

I drive from Gloucester so not really sure about all this.

I regularly go to gigs in Bristol too but will knock that on the head of I 

Have to pay that on top of tickets..doesn't seem good for the economy

You’re ok using the P&R ….you can actually drive to the bottom of the portway but then have to turn left and go up Bridge Valley road otherwise you enter the CAZ .

[archie andrews]

37 minutes ago, forbespm said:

Am I correct I thinking I won't have to pay it if I use the portway park and ride!?

I drive from Gloucester so not really sure about all this.

I regularly go to gigs in Bristol too but will knock that on the head of I 

Have to pay that on top of tickets..doesn't seem good for the economy

Train cant be much dearer...... Can it? 

[RedRock]

Has anyone asked The Mayor for an explanation as to why part of The Portway and Cumberland Basin is included the scheme?
 

If the scheme is about improving air quality, I just can’t see the reasoning for the inclusion of those sections of highway. Assume it must have been justified somehow as a legal challenge would surely have been raised. 

[Frenchay Red]

1 minute ago, RedRock said:

Has anyone asked The Mayor for an explanation as to why part of The Portway and Cumberland Basin is included the scheme?
 

If the scheme is about improving air quality, I just can’t see the reasoning for the inclusion of those sections of highway. Assume it must have been justified somehow as a legal challenge would surely have been raised. 

[W-S-M Seagull]

3 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Has anyone asked The Mayor for an explanation as to why part of The Portway and Cumberland Basin is included the scheme?
 

If the scheme is about improving air quality, I just can’t see the reasoning for the inclusion of those sections of highway. Assume it must have been justified somehow as a legal challenge would surely have been raised. 

Some bs about catching as many drivers as possible so that it will encourage more people to switch their vehicles to environmentally friendly vehicles. I think they have totally missed the point there. The majority of those that will be charged are not switching out of choice, but becauss they simply can't afford to. 

North and South Bristol has essentially been cut off from each other now for the working class. 

[exAtyeoMax]

wrong thread

Edited November 28, 2022 by exAtyeoMax

[Coombsy]

56 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Has anyone asked The Mayor for an explanation as to why part of The Portway and Cumberland Basin is included the scheme?
 

If the scheme is about improving air quality, I just can’t see the reasoning for the inclusion of those sections of highway. Assume it must have been justified somehow as a legal challenge would surely have been raised. 

Or is he’s a gas head

[Jan Window]

The big decisions are not for the mayor to take.  Many urban areas are in breach of an EU standard for the amount of particulates in Breathing Air.

We are not in the EU any more, why are we bothered?  My guess (I don't really know) is that people with health problems like not being able to breathe will start suing the government.  There was a coroners decision on that in South London.

So areas with the high levels need to have schemes.  To deflect the heat from themselves, the government put the design of the schemes over to the local authorities.  But, the government gets to refuse a scheme if it is either too expensive, or it clearly isn't going to have an impact on particulates.

The mayor had some schemes turned down for these reasons.

I guess the reason that Bristol is badly affected is that it is a bowl surrounded by hills, gorges and escarpments.  If we are pumping particulates into the air at the bottom, that is where it is difficult to escape from and builds up.

Sorry, that was a bit boring.

 

[petehinton]

Put this charge in, force people to get buses. Cancel all the buses and make them unreliable beyond belief. Bring in electric scooters, berate everyone and anyone who uses one as ‘unsafe’. Make cycling incredibly different due to so many roadworks running over cycle lanes. 
 

what do they genuinely expect people to do? Just stump up and pay the charge, meaning lose (for the payer) lose (for the environment, is this about the environment and clean air after all). No matter what you try and do, there’s a fairly big negative against it. 

[And Its Smith]

The scooter is the best way to get around Bristol no question. Cheap, convenient, quick, no pollution. Not always convenient but when possible, it’s the best way 

[CyderInACan]

8 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

The scooter is the best way to get around Bristol no question. Cheap, convenient, quick, no pollution. Not always convenient but when possible, it’s the best way 

The closest we've got yet to the hoverboards of Back to the Future - they're a bloody menace though, well, not the scooters per se but some of the people riding them on pavements/more than one person on there/ignoring traffic lights etc etc are bloody liabilities quite frankly. 

[Tony Tootle]

13 hours ago, Slippin cider said:

You’re ok using the P&R ….you can actually drive to the bottom of the portway but then have to turn left and go up Bridge Valley road otherwise you enter the CAZ .

The whole of Bridge Valley Road is included in the CAZ. Another example of this scheme not making any sense.

[And Its Smith]

37 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

The closest we've got yet to the hoverboards of Back to the Future - they're a bloody menace though, well, not the scooters per se but some of the people riding them on pavements/more than one person on there/ignoring traffic lights etc etc are bloody liabilities quite frankly. 

They shouldn’t be any more of a menace than bikes but yes some complete nutters riding them. 

[forbespm]

12 hours ago, archie andrews said:

Train cant be much dearer...... Can it? 

Yes,thinking of using the train more ,not that expensive but a longer journey.bus to Gloucester station,bus from temple meads.wish they opened up the line by the ship and castle

[CyderInACan]

11 minutes ago, TomF said:

I would hope when Marv finally ***** off that these areas are reversed but I doubt it 

If anything it'll only grow in size, not reduce

[CyderInACan]

6 minutes ago, TomF said:

Part of me is a bit surprised none of the cameras have been taken out yet.  

I'm sure it will happen! 

[Barrs Court Red]

17 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

If anything it'll only grow in size, not reduce

Oh no doubt it will grow, not just in size but by type of car that’s chargeable.  

[Bristol Rob]

Yesterday, clean air zone.

Today, fog so thick it was silly. Now, if we can agree based on no scientific merit whatsoever that the fog was smog, we can blame Marv for it.

[Kid in the Riot]

12 hours ago, RedRock said:

Has anyone asked The Mayor for an explanation as to why part of The Portway and Cumberland Basin is included the scheme?

Because it is within Bristol's AQMA (Air quality management area), as is most of the city.

When Andrea Leadsom was environment sec, her department basically got told by the courts that her air management strategy was unlawful as it was failing to deal with the hundreds of thousands of people that die prematurely in the UK partly due to poor air quality. 

The government were given a timescale to sort this out, and they basically passed the buck to local authorities to sort it out. Hence all the clean air zones we are now seeing. 

I think we've got off lightly in the first instance, as the clean air zone covers a small area of the city. They've targeted the worst area for air quality. Bristol had no choice in reality though, unless BCC fancied getting sued, which wouldn't have been ideal given its current financial predicament. 

[frenchred]

I believe Liverpool city council had the balls not to implement it after a huge backlash in manchester

[spudski]

They are going to have to find a better more sustainable way, than using lithium battery's. Very difficult and expensive to recycle. And apparently only 70 years left of lithium on the planet. You can imagine the price, problems as it gets scarcer. Sticking a plaster over a problem ATM.