Bristol Clean Air Zone

[Eddie Hitler]

45 minutes ago, pillred said:

With the sale of new ICE cars being stopped after 2030 and now older cars being charged to drive in towns it is really beginning to look like the government are trying to price a large percentage of the population off the roads. I mean how is the average man or woman going to come up with the money to buy an electric car I know there will be second hand ones available by then but have you seen the price of replacement batteries? the sort of cars working class people will be able to afford the batteries will be coming to the end of there useful life. 

 

I entirely agree but as a minor caveat you will still be able to buy new hybrid cars after 2030 so if you really want an ICE car, and I do because IMHO driving around with an enormous heavy battery is the sort of stupid idea that a child might come up with, then simply buy one of those hybrids with a small battery and a small electric only range and you will continue to have all the benefits of an ICE car - range, longevity - albeit for a chunky cost premium.

[And Its Smith]

48 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

I entirely agree but as a minor caveat you will still be able to buy new hybrid cars after 2030 so if you really want an ICE car, and I do because IMHO driving around with an enormous heavy battery is the sort of stupid idea that a child might come up with, then simply buy one of those hybrids with a small battery and a small electric only range and you will continue to have all the benefits of an ICE car - range, longevity - albeit for a chunky cost premium.

Why is driving around with a battery a childish idea? I’ve had an electric car for over two years. No issues. 

[freezer]

4 hours ago, italian dave said:

The rules rely on the Euro emissions standard of the car and the dates they quote are the dates on which that standard became compulsory. It”s possible that a particular model was compliant with a higher standard before it became compulsory.

So, Euro 4 is the lowest standard that’s exempt. That became compulsory in 2006, but I’d guess that Mercedes were building cars to that standard in 2004. 

Must've, mine is Euro 3. 

Not complaining mind, great excuse to keep driving it. 

[Eddie Hitler]

32 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Why is driving around with a battery a childish idea? I’ve had an electric car for over two years. No issues. 

 

Why would you add the very substantial extra weight of both the battery structure and the electrolyte within it to a vehicle when you can dispense with both so making the vehicle much lighter and therefore much more energy efficient?

ICE technology doesn't require fossil fuels to operate. It can work with biofuels and potentially liquid ammonia which is already produced on an industrial scale:

 

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/molecule-of-the-week/archive/a/ammonia.html#:~:text=Ammonia is produced commercially via,Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch.

 

[And Its Smith]

4 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Why would you add the very substantial extra weight of both the battery structure and the electrolyte within it to a vehicle when you can dispense with both so making the vehicle much lighter and therefore much more energy efficient?

ICE technology doesn't require fossil fuels to operate. It can work with biofuels and potentially liquid ammonia which is already produced on an industrial scale:

 

https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/molecule-of-the-week/archive/a/ammonia.html#:~:text=Ammonia is produced commercially via,Fritz Haber and Carl Bosch.

 

I don’t know what half of those words mean, sorry! Maybe I am a child!  I love my electric car though much more than my old diesel one 

[Ska Junkie]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t know what half of those words mean, sorry! Maybe I am a child!  I love my electric car though much more than my old diesel one 

How much has the cost changed ais, with the price hikes in electricity? That's a genuine question btw.

[Eddie Hitler]

11 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

I don’t know what half of those words mean, sorry! Maybe I am a child!  I love my electric car though much more than my old diesel one 

 

Fair enough!

IMHO EVs make a lot of sense where the land is fairly flat, so the extra weight isn't an issue, and there are a lot of charging points available meaning not having to queue.

This generally means cities.

I have no issue with their being complementary to ICEs on the basis of "horses for courses" but as they make little sense in rural areas with a lot of hills the government shouldn't be replacing ICEs wholesale.

[TonyTonyTony]

23 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Why would you add the very substantial extra weight of both the battery structure and the electrolyte within it to a vehicle when you can dispense with both so making the vehicle much lighter and therefore much more energy efficient?

ICE technology doesn't require fossil fuels to operate. It can work with biofuels and potentially liquid ammonia which is already produced on an industrial scale:

Electric cars are certainly heavier, however the weight distribution is better. More evenly distributed and down the centre of the car. You dont feel like the car is heavy at all, and the handling is better.

BTW Re Ammonia. Ammonia is essentially derived from natural gas. Whilst ammonia itself is not a fossil fuel, its derived from one (like a lot of things)

[And Its Smith]

11 minutes ago, Ska Junkie said:

How much has the cost changed ais, with the price hikes in electricity? That's a genuine question btw.

It’s gone up a fair bit but still better than diesel. I’m driving from Bristol to Aberdeen soon. Priced it up last year and reckoned it would be £80 return. Priced it up yesterday and reckon it’s now £110-120.  Diesel probably £180+ I guess. I’m a bit out of date on diesel prices so that’s very rough 

[Eddie Hitler]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s gone up a fair bit but still better than diesel. I’m driving from Bristol to Aberdeen soon. Priced it up last year and reckoned it would be £80 return. Priced it up yesterday and reckon it’s now £110-120.  Diesel probably £180+ I guess. I’m a bit out of date on diesel prices so that’s very rough 

 

Please dont mention diesel prices on the forum.  I'm going to have to have a lie down in a darkened room now 

[Bristol Rob]

1 minute ago, Eddie Hitler said:

 

Please dont mention diesel prices on the forum.  I'm going to have to have a lie down in a darkened room now 

It's not as if you get a free chunky tumbler with every £6 these days, either.

Which was something that always baffled me, why did they give away wine glasses and whisky tumbers with fuel, it was almost as if they wanted people to be done for drink driving. 

[pillred]

3 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

It’s gone up a fair bit but still better than diesel. I’m driving from Bristol to Aberdeen soon. Priced it up last year and reckoned it would be £80 return. Priced it up yesterday and reckon it’s now £110-120.  Diesel probably £180+ I guess. I’m a bit out of date on diesel prices so that’s very rough 

That's going to be a lot of stops for recharging, that is the thing that at the moment really puts me off EVs that and the amount you could end up spending on food and coffees in places whilst you wait an hour to recharge, a lot to be said for popping in the petrol station 4 mins later on your way, my car does at least 60mpg on a run and in theory I could do Bristol to Aberdeen easily on one tankful (not that I would ever be able to do that without many comfort stops at my age :laugh:).

[Barrs Court Red]

Absolutely love my electric car.  It absolutely destroys all comers from a standing start at lights. 
 

what it doesn’t do well though, is motorway driving - you’ll get about 60% of the advertised range.  That’s a big issue, and I would imagine range will double each generation of vehicle. 

[freezer]

1 hour ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Absolutely love my electric car.  It absolutely destroys all comers from a standing start at lights. 
 

what it doesn’t do well though, is motorway driving - you’ll get about 60% of the advertised range.  That’s a big issue, and I would imagine range will double each generation of vehicle. 

Ah the old hare and tortoise thing. 

What's your 0 - 60? Heard they can be rapid. 

[italian dave]

9 minutes ago, freezer said:

Ah the old hare and tortoise thing. 

What's your 0 - 60? Heard they can be rapid. 

Supposedly so. I read an interview with the boss of Ferrari a while back. He was asked how you persuade those ‘petrol heads’ to accept electric Ferraris and his answer basically was speed - or acceleration. He recognised that they just needed to work on the noise! 

[freezer]

17 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Supposedly so. I read an interview with the boss of Ferrari a while back. He was asked how you persuade those ‘petrol heads’ to accept electric Ferraris and his answer basically was speed - or acceleration. He recognised that they just needed to work on the noise! 

Certainly do, or we'll all be getting run over in the CAZ by fast and silent killing machines

[And Its Smith]

5 hours ago, pillred said:

That's going to be a lot of stops for recharging, that is the thing that at the moment really puts me off EVs that and the amount you could end up spending on food and coffees in places whilst you wait an hour to recharge, a lot to be said for popping in the petrol station 4 mins later on your way, my car does at least 60mpg on a run and in theory I could do Bristol to Aberdeen easily on one tankful (not that I would ever be able to do that without many comfort stops at my age :laugh:).

Probably 90 mins of charging. I would want to stop for probably an hour anyway so I only see it as 30 mins more. 

[Port Said Red]

14 hours ago, freezer said:

Ah the old hare and tortoise thing. 

What's your 0 - 60? Heard they can be rapid. 

My Corsa e is advertised as being 6.9s, I think they must have measured it going up hill, because I could probably do that in normal mode. In sports mode my wife measured it at 5.5 with her phone timer. The thing is being automatic and having so much torque, you are literally thrown back in your seat when you put your foot down.

Anyway, seeing this thread I looked up the charges, and of course it's free for people like @And Its Smith and I everywhere.....  except Central London where it would still cost £17 even for us!

[Red-Robbo]

30 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

My Corsa e is advertised as being 6.9s, I think they must have measured it going up hill, because I could probably do that in normal mode. In sports mode my wife measured it at 5.5 with her phone timer. The thing is being automatic and having so much torque, you are literally thrown back in your seat when you put your foot down.

Anyway, seeing this thread I looked up the charges, and of course it's free for people like @And Its Smith and I everywhere.....  except Central London where it would still cost £17 even for us!

My approach is always to roll up slowly to two-lane lights. Even if you're doing under 5mph when they turn green, as long as you're in motion you'll still blow away the nippiest sports car that is stationary.  

[Calculus]

I have to pick.my daughter  up from Temple Meads a bit later. Surprised to find that the train station is in the zone (as is tbe bus station).  Not so much as about encouraging public transport use as a council revenue raising exercise. 

[Port Said Red]

53 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

My approach is always to roll up slowly to two-lane lights. Even if you're doing under 5mph when they turn green, as long as you're in motion you'll still blow away the nippiest sports car that is stationary.  

I like it when some idiot drives right up behind you, through a 20 or 30mph zone, trying to hurry you up. Watching them disappearing in the rearview mirror when you shoot off at the end is fun, especially as I don't have the green number plate and my car looks like a standard Corsa.

[redsquirrel]

2 hours ago, Port Said Red said:

My Corsa e is advertised as being 6.9s, I think they must have measured it going up hill, because I could probably do that in normal mode. In sports mode my wife measured it at 5.5 with her phone timer. The thing is being automatic and having so much torque, you are literally thrown back in your seat when you put your foot down.

Anyway, seeing this thread I looked up the charges, and of course it's free for people like @And Its Smith and I everywhere.....  except Central London where it would still cost £17 even for us!

i was listening to a radio phone yesterday,londons mayor is changing it to cover the whole of london, they were talking about ULEZ. apparently,every time a resident goes out in their car,they will have to pay it. i think this is different to the £17 you are referring to but how much money are they trying to con here? 

ULEZ Expansion 2023 - Transport for London (tfl.gov.uk)

[italian dave]

6 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

My approach is always to roll up slowly to two-lane lights. Even if you're doing under 5mph when they turn green, as long as you're in motion you'll still blow away the nippiest sports car that is stationary.  

Never had you down as a boy racer RR

[Lanterne Rouge]

5 minutes ago, italian dave said:

Never had you down as a boy racer RR

I bet his horn plays La Cucaracha too.

[And Its Smith]

On 02/12/2022 at 17:35, pillred said:

That's going to be a lot of stops for recharging, that is the thing that at the moment really puts me off EVs that and the amount you could end up spending on food and coffees in places whilst you wait an hour to recharge, a lot to be said for popping in the petrol station 4 mins later on your way, my car does at least 60mpg on a run and in theory I could do Bristol to Aberdeen easily on one tankful (not that I would ever be able to do that without many comfort stops at my age :laugh:).

I’ve now done Bristol to Aberdeen and back again.  3 stops of the way up,  3 stops on the way up, 3 on the way back and one overnight charge there.  £130 in electricity.  The 6 motorway stops averaged about 30 mins each but would want to stop regularly anyway.  Overall a pretty pleasant experience and a hell of a lot cheaper for 3 people than planes or trains 

[Judda]

On 30/11/2022 at 23:52, pillred said:

Are you sure? I thought only petrol cars built 2006 onwards were exempt. 

Yup. Promise! 

[BTRFTG]

On 02/12/2022 at 13:16, And Its Smith said:

Why is driving around with a battery a childish idea? I’ve had an electric car for over two years. No issues. 

Unless one wishes to travel any distance in a timely fashion.

[BTRFTG]

On 02/12/2022 at 17:45, Barrs Court Red said:

Absolutely love my electric car.  It absolutely destroys all comers from a standing start at lights. 
 

what it doesn’t do well though, is motorway driving - you’ll get about 60% of the advertised range.  That’s a big issue, and I would imagine range will double each generation of vehicle. 

Batteries don't work like that. To increase range you'd need more batteries, heavier weight, less space, deceased efficiency. There's also the major problem that there aren't enough precious metals on the planet to create all the batteries required to power private transport, nor charging infrastructure to support them.

Electric cars, like their diesel & petrol counterparts are hugely damaging to the planet, the difference with electric being the damage released is at distance to the vehicle itself, but out of sight - out of mind, eh?  As with all the 'carbon offset' crap, there isn't sufficient capacity to trap CO2, plant trees or whatever harebrained scheme folks propose. Folks pollute as normal and salve their consciences by paying  levies that do precisely Sweet FA.

The solution is to ban private transport but with the state of public transport and public transport operatives that's a wholly unrealistic proposition.

[And Its Smith]

57 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Unless one wishes to travel any distance in a timely fashion.

Not experienced any issues with getting anywhere timely other than a trip to Cornwall which didnt have the infrastructure when I did it.  As I said above, Aberdeen to Bristol?  No issues.  If I had been driving a diesel or petrol car, it would have probably saved me 30 minutes which is nothing considering the distance. 

[pillred]

55 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Batteries don't work like that. To increase range you'd need more batteries, heavier weight, less space, deceased efficiency. There's also the major problem that there aren't enough precious metals on the planet to create all the batteries required to power private transport, nor charging infrastructure to support them.

Electric cars, like their diesel & petrol counterparts are hugely damaging to the planet, the difference with electric being the damage released is at distance to the vehicle itself, but out of sight - out of mind, eh?  As with all the 'carbon offset' crap, there isn't sufficient capacity to trap CO2, plant trees or whatever harebrained scheme folks propose. Folks pollute as normal and salve their consciences by paying  levies that do precisely Sweet FA.

The solution is to ban private transport but with the state of public transport and public transport operatives that's a wholly unrealistic proposition.

They won't have it though they are almost evangelical in their obsession, you are right unless there is a major leap forward in the performance of batteries made from alternative materials then we are almost certain to run out of the raw materials to make enough batteries for the amount of cars needed to replace the ICE.