Red-Robbo

But all the UK requires is holidaymakers coming back from abroad test and potentially isolate if they've been in certain high-infection countries: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/travel-abroad-from-england-during-coronavirus-covid-19 If any country requires all visitors to be vaccinated, then that is their policy, not the UK government's. I'm unaware of any country that requires proof of vaccination for under-12s, certainly Greece and Spain do not, so your friends can still have a foreign holiday.

How young are the children and which country insists on having the entire family vaccinated? In the UK, vaccines are not routinely offered to under-13s.

Er, I think to get the leaders of 200 odd nations to go along with it, you'd need a pretty big conspiracy and involving the most eminent people in their field. It is true that there are a tiny number of Covid-sceptic scientists, but no-one who works currently in the field of virology, epidemiology or pharmacology is saying Covid is anything other than it is - the dangerous zoonotic pandemic that experts had warned might be coming, but politicians ignored because preparing for pandemics is costly and not a "sexy" vote-winner. On average, human society suffers a pandemic every hundred years. "Spanish flu" our last one, was 1918-1920, so this one was pretty much right on schedule. No "Big Pharma" involved in that one, or the Black Death, Plague of Justinian etc etc. We have doctors and nurses working in our hospitals who post on this board. They have seen Covid deaths up close and know how under-pressure hospital services are. Are you saying they are liars?

Have you really thought through how many politicians, scientists, doctors, nurses, statisticians, even undertakers and so on would have to be "bought" to maintain a phoney Pandemic? In every country of the world. Everyone from Jacinta Arden to Kim Jong Un from Angela Merkel to Vladimir Putin to Justin Trudeau etc etc etc. How big a bribe do you think Pfizer/AZ/Moderna/Johnson & Johnson have paid to persuade democratic leaders to do something that adversely affects their nation's economy and makes them likely to lose power? Not just couldnt-care-less shits like Johnson, but proper, decent politicians. And why wouldn't the rival Big Pharma companies call this out if a massive fraud - bigger than anything in human history - is being perpetrated on the world by their competitors? And why would not-for-profit institutions, like our universities, get involved? The Chinese and Russian vaccines were developed and are distributed by state institutions and are not sold for profit. If it's all a scam for cash, why are they involved? While there have been people cashing in throughout this Pandemic, shamelessly enabled by our government, the idea that the entire thing is made-up or exaggerated for the benefit of four companies is nuts. We know from Watergate that you can't keep a conspiracy hushed up for weeks, even when it involves fewer than a dozen people. Right here, "partygate" leaked to the Mirror, even though apparently only 30-40 attended. To maintain a global conspiracy for two years involving bribes from pharmaceutical companies to literally tens of thousands of people if not hundreds of thousands of people, a whistleblower would have emerged with concrete evidence. None has. The whole idea is a fantasy.

I think that's a rather complacent view. It's too early to say this variant has very mild symptoms. There are reports of some children dying in South Africa from it. People with diabetes do not as a general rule become hospitalised with flu. Flu acts primarily as an upper respiratory infection, SARS-2-CoV spreads virons around the body: this is why it has affected organs other than just lungs. This is why Covid has a higher case mortality rate than normal influenza. It could be that research finds that Omicron is a milder strain and even though more infectious, it will lead to fewer hospitalisations. If it is, restrictions will no doubt be dropped. Most infections in the UK at present are Delta anyway, and we currently have more than a million people carrying the virus and that number is rising. This fact alone justifies taking extra care.

Nagy had some decent games. It's unfortunate he was one of a number of players who gave up on this club last season. You need only to have watched him in Hungarian internationals to see how he could be effective in a different formation. Styvar never really shone here, though he was a trier. To be fair, he was no worse than other Gary Johnson efforts to supply a second striker to partner Adebola (and later Maynard) - Stern John, John Akinde, Patrick Agyemang, Chris Iwulemo, David Clarkson and the legend that is Stefan Maierhoffer.

Indeed. In fact, if Plan B is only about the government's friends making money, they'd be telling you to carry on working from the office.

I reckon this "I'm not watching City again while they obey the law" and "I am protesting outside" is this season's equivalent of the classic "I WILL BOO" thread.

A gross insult to the Jewish community and yet more proof of Godwin's Law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

This party's tendency is de facto authoritarian. That was the case before the Pandemic. The Policing Bill was outlined in a green paper well before the virus was even heard of and was presented as a white paper in 2019, beginning its legislative passage which is currently at the Lords. However, vaccine passes are not just the response to the Pandemic of authoritarian regimes. They are in place in multiple countries.

People are making money out of it. I never said they weren't. I'd rather we paid 40 times less for the NHS app, which is what the Germans did for their, more sophisticated, version. But that's Tory cronyism and inefficiency for you. However downloading an app (or taking a PCR) is not a vast imposition on anyone and isn't some mighty power grab by the state. It might make little difference to infections, but it makes some, so it's worth a few seconds of anyone's time. If you're worried about state power grabs I'd be more concerned about the implications of the Policing Bill or Priti Patel giving herself unilateral power to take away citizenship without right to appeal. These are more worthy of your angst.

But H - even your back-of-fag-packet calculations (which I haven't time to check) - the risk to the unvaccinated spectator is very marginally decreased. If that spectator is 80, as some guys sitting near me are, or has COPD or diabetes (ditto), I suspect that very small number might be higher. You need to magnify your tiny number by everyone attending a football match, rugby match, race meeting, antiques fair, and other large event add in everyone going to a nightclub, for potentially a period of multiple months. Then that tiny fraction becomes a larger whole figure. Importantly it is a positive figure, not a negative one. I will agree with you that there's something a bit tokenistic about the app as it is being used. The difference it'll make to overall infections is small. I'd rather they enforced masking in the concourses and crowds in front of them, that would probably prevent more infections. However the name of the game is slightly slowing, not stopping, the advance of Omicron, and it is clear this will help in a tiny way towards this. Downloading the app won't make money for any of the elites or big corporations. It's free. It's available at no cost. The government has already forked out a fortune for it and this won't go up if 50 million people use it or none do. So in this case, I feel the explanation "they are doing this to cash in on the Pandemic" doesn't hold water.

I asked you why you thought these regulations were being brought in? Not for a laugh, surely? And not to distract from the No.10 Party scandal either - as doing something he said he wouldn't do hardly enhances Bozo's credibility. You haven't answered and I'd be interested what you thought. To be fair, it's not you but someone else wibbling on about the "government controlling every aspect of your life", as if downloading an app and potentially showing it at football is some major imposition. Somerset County Council telling me which days to put my bins out has a bigger impact! I don't love the idea of vaccine passes or compulsory testing (remember, you can still go to football unvaccinated, you just need to take a PCR) however I'm guessing the reason the move was brought in is they think it's a fairly painless way of slowing rising infections just by a smidgeon. They've done the sums, not on the back of a fag packet, and shown that even a small individual decrease in risk, magnified by every large event in the UK, makes it worth doing.

That explains it. But also confirms that "looking tidy in the Slovakian league" might be a bit like "seemed a good manager in Scotland".

I think we sold him for scrap. No, that was unfair on Styvar. I believe he was someone who we mysteriously played up front for us when he'd never played that role in Slovakia.

In Portugal apparently. They've probably drooped by now though. Things you never tire of watching! ? ?

Yep, I agree. I'm happy to restrict to the politics forum posting evidence as to why scientists think this measure will help. Ultimately, whatever we think, we've gotta lump it. Fulminating on a fans' football forum ain't going to change government policy. Which brings me to how it is administered in practical terms. It seems to me having stewards ask a random selection of fans to show their pass before they enter is easier than having to inspect everyone's phone/read printouts. I believe this is what they do at Scottish matches. Anyone care to confirm?

Well yeah, but your statement would only make sense if no over-18s were catching the virus. Clearly they are. The mean age of those testing positive is 32. It's about reducing risk, not trying to eliminate it entirely. To do that, you'd have to stop football - which nobody wants. The comments you are referring to, are my response to a poster who seems to think Covid passes will lead to some catastrophic fall in crowd sizes at AG. Has this happened in Scotland or Wales? Not sure it has, but happy to accept genuine evidence.

Jeez mate. These are recent studies, conducted by virologists, peer-reviewed, that find that on average the unvaccinated will be more likely to infect others than the vaccinated. That is because the vaccine neutralises virons within the body. If you want more evidence on this look at the study conducted by Oxford University this autumn which examined the contact tracing details of 650,000 Britons who reported infections. again, that study reported unvaccinated persons on average infecting more people than vaccinated ones. You are, statistically, 18 times more likely to require hospitalisation if you are under 50 and catch Covid while unvaccinated, than your vaccinated peers. What does that statistic tell you about length of time Covid virons stay in the body of unvaccinated people?

Lots ARE. Which is why making those crowded areas safer might encourage them out. Why should elderly fans and those with underlying health conditions (one-third of the population) confine themselves to their homes, just so some can carry on catching and spreading the virus willy nilly? Downloading a phone app is just such a minor inconvenience to get worked up about. Even if you think it's pointless, it's so minuscule an effort. And anyway, the government doesn't control every aspect of my life. I've got Mrs Robbo for that!

We actually aren't performing that badly ATM. I'll be going to watch the Huddersfield game and will assess then the effect on the crowd. I'm guessing it'll be minimal. Most of the fanbase who attend matches are in the age range where vaccine take-up is very high. Christmas shopping is likely to have a much bigger issue. The idea that we'll now see passes for pubs and restaurants is hypothetical, but if we did, for anyone who it keeps away it might encourage more elderly and worried customers to return. In my local, a number of old boys are no longer regulars as they are worried about catching the virus in a venue where there are zero restrictions. If restrictions were to be brought in, they might return. Just to be clear. I haven't been agitating for Covid Passes in the UK and think they'll be a pain in the arse. But I don't think they are such a big deal I would ever consider not watching City over them.

If you read it, that story acknowledges that viral loads can be similar during infection, but in vaccinated people the high viral load phase WILL BE SHORTER. Therefore, on average, vaccinated people will have lower viral loads than unvaccinated ones. This is the entire reason d'etre of these restrictions. Why else do you think they are being brought in? As part of some sinister New World Order conspiracy? It isn't an opinion piece and it contains more links than to "two researchers". It's the most recent research on the subject.

How would I know that French infection, hospitalisation and death rates are lower than the UK? The stats are there for you to see. Can you explain why showing a pass to go to a restaurant will lose someone their relationship - or life??? They are more likely to lose both if they catch Covid. Which this measure is aimed at making less likely. Just a reminder, a minimum 5,250,000 people have lost their lives from this virus. No business is going to go bust or no one is going to die because we have to download a simple app and potentially show it at a football match. What a ridiculous tantrum over something so uncomplicated.

Maybe you should ask yourself how high French infections (which are marginally below the UK) would be without this measure? Lower death rates and hospitalisation rates in France suggest that pushing people to get vaccinated is achieving goals the French authorities want to meet.

No misinformation in my post. I suggest you read this and follow the links: https://theconversation.com/no-vaccinated-people-are-not-just-as-infectious-as-unvaccinated-people-if-they-get-covid-171302 There is a reason they've imposed these passes They aren't just for fun and no one is making money out of them. (They've already done that! Whether the system is used or not is irrelevant to the developers). The scientific consensus is that restricting unvaccinated and/or untested people from large events will slow the spread. I'm happy to accept expert opinion, rather than that of non-experts.