the1stknowle

10 minutes ago, Lrrr said:

If they come down they'll have much bigger assests they can sell for big money, Twine with a season of Championship football & relatively low cost to them would likely still have use, even relegated teams still need squad players. 

We will see. Their previous season in champ didn't really bear this out. The wage bill is the wage bill and its not always easy to chop when relegated so you sell what you can out of what you dont want to keep. Twine should be sellable. But likely not a 5m. 

All speculation so lets see. I just don't think he will have many/any suitors that could pay close to 5m for him in this market.

15 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

It was £5m in January, I’m not convinced there’s as much wiggle-room as people hope.

If they stay up, they will want to cut losses on him. And if they come down, they will be looking to chop squad generally and cash in a bit. And who would pay 5m for him (and I say that as someone who really likes him). Assuming his market is the championship, then not many will have 5m to spend on him - maybe one of the relegated teams I guess.

We obviously can't do 5m for him; probably not even half that. But if there was a chance at a price that didnt spunk our entire budget on one player, I'd be really keen to keep him.

1 hour ago, bcfctim said:

Between him, Dickie, Knight and McCrorie coming on in the last couple of months, the recruitment we did do in the summer is looking very solid. One to remember for the Tinnion bashers

Interesting that this comment got a confused reaction. Which is the bit you disagree with? 

On the main topic, Roberts has been absolutely brilliant since coming in. Wouldn't even mind him playing CB in a back two although that would give manager some decisions to make. But surely one of first names in starting 11 at the moment, regardless of formation. 

17 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Thought he was excellent. My man of the match 

Agree. That level of composure on ball at back with way we want to play under manning makes a massive difference. At least it did today. 

6 minutes ago, ProfitInMyPocket said:

Enjoy the result and performance. A lot of the things said today were said after Southampton and looks how it went after.

He got it right today and fair enough to him, the staff and the team. Now try break down a team who sits in and see how the response is on here.

Going to keep going in circles if you get too high and defensive after every win against a big team. From the 25 odd games he's been here, in my opinion he hasn't showed enough.

We're good when we are the counter attacking team and a team gives us space to work in, let's see if you say the same after struggling against a team who sit in.

 

One thing I think is fair to say is that when we are good under manning, we are really good. That at least is something to build on. 
 

Lets see if we can carry it on this time. 
 

Really enjoyable game today. 

5 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

As is Choudhary. We need to get at them.

We are 

17 hours ago, Roe said:

I'm not sure it can really be proven from the outside. Which is convenient seeing as he's apparently great at it.

But can you not make exactly the same argument the other way? Or you're saying while it's impossible from the outside to prove he is responsible/had a huge positive impact on anything good, we can definitively prove he is directly or largely responsible for the negative things.

Seems to me that it is that line of thinking which, to use your words, is convenient. 

5 minutes ago, Superjack said:

I'm not even critiquing him on the job he is doing. 

He's out of his depth. So is Manning. But guess what? That's what you get when egotistical ****wit owners get rid of a whole working set up because it threatens their control. 

I'm critiquing Tinnion for his treachery. Something, by all accounts, he has years of form for.

Except, not by all accounts at all.

2 hours ago, Roe said:

Nah.

I'm not at all convinced by this whole "great with the academy" stuff either. His communication is terrible and he seems pretty delusional.

Those are pretty big areas that I'd want to address in someone running a high level academy.

Seems pretty easy to claim he's great at something that can't be proven

If you're not convinced, what would you need to see to think that since his involvement, the Academy set up has improved beyond all recognition? Just, as you say, that his communication improves and he stops being 'delusional'? And that would be more conclusive than, for example, significant increase in standard, first team contribution, and sale value of players produced by the Academy?

I think this kind of post is exactly what the OP is talking about when they say that Tins isn't being critiqued on the job that he is doing but instead, at least in part, on a set of OTIB talking points that have now come to be accepted truth on here (snake, grass, idiot, out of his depth, Lansdown yes man, delusional, self-aggrandising, can't string sentence together, blah). 

2 hours ago, Tim Monaghan said:

Right, I've just listened to this interview. 

So, lots of U18's training with the first team. Some not playing in the U21's because they want to keep the squad together. Reason some of them haven't travelled as bench fillers is due to timescales of games at the fatigue of the travelling to sit on the bench. Some are also stepping up to the U21's because a lot of them are out on loan gaining higher level experience. BT - "No problem with them being on the bench if they prove themselves". 

It sounds very much to me that they think the best of the U21's are out on loan, the rest aren't going to make it, so they want to keep the better batch together in the U18's to get ready for the U21's. Then there is a really good batch of U16's coming up. I really don't see what the issue is here?  We've got a chance of getting into a MAJOR youth final, so why wouldn't you focus on it?  Class of 92' for example, they all stayed together. David Beckham for example only made 9 U21's appearances. Other than that, it was at U18 level until he went out on loan to Preston when he was 19. So an argument could be made that these kids are being pushed and given more opportunities than most at this age. 

Look at recent history of winners! Do you not think it would be good for the academy to have this as an attraction piece? We moan enough (funny that) about not being able to attract the top young talent, then also moan when we're trying to give us the selling points in doing so. 
 

  

Some pretty decent teams there, eh.  But lets not focus on what an achievement it would be, but of course, lets hammer the club for not putting these kids on the bench with the first team even though they aren't even ready. They're training with the first team, and that's all that matters in terms of reaching those levels. We all know if we put a 17 year old on and he has a stinker, we'd all be saying "whats he doing, he clearly isn't ready, his confidence will be shoot now". 

Moaning for moaning's sake for me I'm afraid.

As for the rest of it, well, you can't sack Pearson with an injured squad and then blame injuries for the new coach not succeeding. That's insane.  McKenna stats is madness. If you're going to come out with a stat like that, you have to get it right .  Comparing us to Coventry is a joke too. Not sure if that was a slight shot at the owners for not spending, but maybe not.  

Agree that the signing of Dickie for £600k was a steal. Jason Knight, Hayden Roberts (free), Ross McCrorie signing. Not mentioned, but Max Bird, Josh Stokes and Adam Murphy (best young player in Ireland; BT's quote).  Cornick was a bit of a stinker though wasn't he. 

So, apart from the Coventry and McKenna gaff which was strange, I don't see much wrong with the interview.  He's clearly passionate about Bristol City, and MA was hated because of his corporate language. The club literally can't win, can it.  

Agree exactly with this. I listened this morning and the listen and what I’d already read on here was very different. 
 

The u18 thing sounds like a deliberate decision related to the particular view of this u18 group and what is best for them. A view formed by, whatever everyone here thinks of Tins I hope they would agree, someone that knows infinitely more about youth development than every person on this forum. I don’t think the interpretation that it’s some whimsy of the Lansdowns that is behind that decision is a fair one from what was said. Maybe they think this group would benefit from pushing themselves against elite youth teams or trying to instil a winning culture. The idea that it has affected the first team in any real way is totally fanciful. 
 

The rest of it I thought was pretty forthcoming. It was fine. I disagree that it was some irrefutable proof of his incompetence or the terrible state we are in as a mid table championship club. 

2 minutes ago, JP Hampton said:

Frustrating but I’ve no complaints on that performance. Well done City. 

Yeah, that was a lot better watch than last three. Weirdly, Cornick going off was massive for us.  

16 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

Did you read the op. 'Caretaker till the end of the season.'

No harm in that.

If there is no harm in it, what's the harm in sticking with Manning?

8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

This feels like foreboding news for Harvey Wiles-Richards and potentially Bajic. 
 

Joe Duncan is very highly rated and is the next batch below Casa-Grande. I’d be thinking that there may be some engagement with the first team (even as third choice) in the next year or two for both and with that being the case, it’d seem to me that HWR would need to have a huge uptick to remain at his place in the pecking order. Bajic doesn’t seem close to displacing Max (and nor should he currently) and if he has a couple of further contenders coming up behind him he may look to move on as opposed to sitting as number two for a season before potentially being displaced.

I always thought Will Buse looked like the better prospect of all the up and coming keepers. Admittedly from little I saw him.

Anyone know if he is getting into team at Yeovil? Would hope he’s a few levels above NLS. 
 

17 minutes ago, Citychuds said:

In my opinion we have a cracking Championship keeper in Max O'leary. I liked Bentley and when he got dropped in favour of Max I was concerned it was a step backwards and maybe a cost cutting exercise. I now feel I was wrong, and wonder if the club just saw Max as the better keeper and therefore didnt need to pay Bentleys high wage. Now id take Max over Bentley any day and comparing him to other Champ keepers I feel we are in a good position. However its clear Max has always been a bit marmite and maybe some fans would happily see him replaced. 

I feel he is cracking at keeping the ball out the net, we dont ship loads of goals he has pulled off a number of excellent stops and has kept us in many games. Has made a few mistakes (Preston etc) but not many and in fairness his timing on coming out or punching is pretty good

The distribution issue is frustrating but I wonder if this fogs some fans overall view of him. Vyners distribution at points is interesting yet nobody seems to want him replaced. 

I also wonder if both his quieter demeanor, smaller stature and the fact he came through the youth setup (which rarely happens for keepers) none of which seem to affect his performances also fog our view of the player we have.

Ive not seen Bajic play so I dont know how good he is, is he a champ backup keeper? If not and we need to get a keeper in (which seems to be the consensus) id still argue we dont need a number one keeper.

Interested to know peoples thoughts?

There seems more confirmation bias with people's opinions of keepers. It is the position where people seem less open to the idea of professional development - drop a few clangers and you are a dodgy keeper, not up to it, need to be shifted, a problem to solve. Whereas other positions are allowed to be inexperienced and develop, probably because their mistakes don't stand out as much. 

Max is clearly a good keeper and is demonstrably improving in performance, confidence and presence (same as the two centre backs in front of him). Not only do I not think he needs to be moved on. I also think he is nowhere near his ceiling and he could get very good. Hopefully fans on here can give him some space and not copy and paste the 'we need new keeper to progress' thread after every defeat.

14 minutes ago, mozo said:

Sky bemoaning poor Russel Martin's defeat

Come on now. They have given us tonnes of credit all night. They are talking about the end of a 25-game unbeaten run because that is an incredible run and it coming to an end is a thing that deserves being talked about. But they haven't gone overboard with that to the exclusion of talking about how well we've played individually and tactically. 

3 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Well said Don Goodman, Matty James MOM.

Rob Dickie for me but not going to argue with James. Was excellent. But so was everyone. Genuinely best 90-minute performance I can remember from us in years. 

Just now, cidercity1987 said:

What a weird post

Manning has barely taken any stick and only very few shouting for him to be sacked , it's all directed at Tinnion and Lansdown

We are far from the play off challengers they hoped for in making the change

Come on now. Without myself fully being on board with the original post, no one can honestly say ‘Manning has barely taken any stick‘ on this forum. 

1 hour ago, tin said:

Did than come from our recruitment team or from SL’s Guernsey link?  

Is that not exactly the outside the box thinking you want though? 

I mean, if you want another example literally our latest signing was a very highly rated youngster who hadn’t played a game for the team he came up through and has been recruited from a Benelux league. And perhaps, like Summerville, it might take a bit of time for him to adapt and thrive.

I’m not trying to be argumentative but I honestly don’t see the 100 appearances in lower leagues model. Mccrorie, Dickie, Knight, Bird - all substantial Champ/SPL experience. In one case an established international. Or your counting Champ as lower leagues?

Who did you have in mind when talking about the prototype recruit we now go for? 
 

And look, if Summerville is your point of reference, then that means Leeds recruitment is what you’re saying you admire. So what about Rutter? Or Augustin? Or Roca? Or Mckennie? Or Koch? Or Woeber? Or are you just saying you wish we had a player like Summerville? Because that I can get on board with and wholeheartedly agree with. 

3 hours ago, tin said:

I didn’t say our recruitment wasn’t good; I inferred we recruited to a template. For example, youngsters who’ve played 100+ games in the lower leagues. It seems very much sign by template, rather than think out of the box. 

While that has some merit, look at Summerville as an example of thinking out of the box. He didn’t play a single game for Feyenoord but came onto Leeds’ radar after two loan spells in Holland. When was the last time we made a signing like that? 

Our net is cast particularly wide IMO.

Errr. Alex Scott??

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

It reminded me of very few Nige team performances once he got the wasters out in summer of 2021.

Slightly off topic but I’ll give you many less examples in 22-23. But post summer of 21 was the 21-22 season and all those away games that were exactly like that last night - Barnsley, forest, sheff Utd, def Birmingham, Blackpool, Fulham and west brom thrashings. 
 

But even in 2022-23, there were those games like the two Burnley games or reading away where it just went completely flat and felt defeated throughout. That to me is what last night felt like. Let’s also be fair that Leeds are half decent and full of multi million pound players. 
 

Don’t think anyone has a warm and fuzzy feeling right now. But where I differ from a lot on here is that I am pretty optimistic about general direction of travel and am willing to be patient. Hope club are too. 

6 minutes ago, tin said:

I haven’t heard his interview but how can he be salivating when the mandate for all new signings is to sign younger players we can sell on, all while those younger players may block the pathway of what Tinnion said is the best crop coming through. 

As for him drooling at our summer plans, I bet it doesn’t involve the sort of forward-thinking recruitment Leeds did with Summerville, for example. Young players who could make a tangible difference, rather than more passive players who produce little in terms of goals or assists. 

I loved him as a player, but he’s way out of his depth being in charge of recruitment. Delusions of grandeur.

Genuine question - is our recruitment not good at the moment? What's the disappointment exactly?

6 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think back to Nige’s sacking (nothing to do with Nige’s sacking itself) but the two fixtures that followed - and the naivety of Wednesday (h) and QPR (a) and the “easy 6 points” brigade getting ready to feast.  We got 4 points.

We come off the back of Boro and Saints with the reverse fixtures.  They don’t look like “easy 6 points” anymore.

Hopefully we will find a way to get a win over the next couple.

I haven’t really read much of OTIB tonight, so not sure what has been said / written, but I was surprised that we continued to try to build attacks from goal-kicks by Dickie passing to O’Leary.  What happened to Manning’s “if we are well pressed we will go over it” appointment speech?

Secondly at 1-0 down why was TC screening Gruev when Meslier had the ball at his feet.  We have to gamble a bit, and get TC to press Meslier, and get James or TGH to go onto Gruev (no44).  It put little pressure on Leeds back line.  Pipe and slippers for Gruev.  That really disappointed me.  TC wasn’t happy either.

It’s the underlying numbers that worry me more.

But having said that, I’m more than happy to watch how he solves his problems (it’s not just down to the players).  Tonight’s game in isolation isn’t a concern.

This is how I feel - I'm fully behind Manning, can see promise in certain things we do, am frustrated by others, but enjoying watching how things might evolve and how what is clearly a sharp young manager might evolve with us. And, personally, I'd love him to have chance to manage a club where all fans are genuinely behind him for a bit.

But, I also feel, little point saying it on forum currently because to me this place just feels like a confirmation bias bubble ready to jump on everything and anything to slate club, Manning, JL and Tinns and to eulogise about the glorious football under Nige. That Leeds game last night actually really reminded me of a lot of games under Nige where it felt like we'd accepted we'd just go through the motions against a team demonstrably better than us. Scroll back through the Nige-time match threads for similar sentiments among a wide range of supporters.. 

I'm writing this not to change any minds and definitely not to get involved in the 'you're wrong' comments that follow. But only to say there are people like me that are nowhere near 'Manning out' and aren't walking through footballing life in despair at Nige's departure and Manning's appointment. There is clearly an attempt to play in a certain way now and when it does work (the three FA Cup prem games) its been better to watch than any City team in a long time. Im even enjoying watching our centre backs really try to stick to the play out from back rules even when they always look like they're a split second from giving the ball away each time they have to pass to a team mate ahead of them. 

Hope club sticks course and, with the decision made, they ignore the nonsense, back manager for a reasonable period of time, and give their plan a chance. They will have to put up with a section of fan base saying 'top six squad apparently' every five minutes, but if that's enough to sway them then there's no point in them making any plan.

9 hours ago, Henry said:

I hadn’t realised Tinnion’s son played in that game either.

Have some respect for yourself. Jesus. 

14 hours ago, luke_bristol said:

We looked shell-shocked at first, standing off them and giving them all the time in the world, but after 20 mins we really grew into the game. LM due loads of credit for not panicking.

I thought it was much sooner than that. Immediately after goal, and esp, obviously, after Paqueta injury, we found our feet, calmed down, and started playing. After first 5 minutes I thought it was really even.

11 hours ago, Sandhurst Red said:

Exactly this. Talking to a West Ham fan (who was very complimentary about not only our side but our fans) said the same. They rely on him too much. Hadn't dawned on me until he said it, how his substitution changed the whole game. 

Yeah, I was sat with the WH fans and they love him. (They seem to love Kudus more). 

In fairness, re running away with it, when they scored and Pacqueta was still on pitch, I told my WH mate I was sat with that this might get tough for us and he said he almost guaranteed that there would be points in the game where West Ham fans would be nervous. Which proved right. Think the fans there are used to the team losing control of games that really they should be bossing with the players they have. 

They also all loathe Danny Ings and booed him when he came on. He had about 4 touches but all really classy - imagine he's still a very good player.

Anyway, the fans I spoke with thought we were decent, played nice football, and Max got a lot of compliments for his worldie saves.