the1stknowle

From memory, this guy is a Man U fan (that might be wrong), so maybe a pinch of salt needed. And i have seen similarly forceful threads the other way from well informed Man City fans, such as Slbsn. But, for those willing to get through this long thread, it lays out a lot of the salient info around the City charges. 

1 hour ago, Port Said Red said:

Literally in June this year, there were posters praising the early recruitment and getting deals through the door, last year the deal for Naismith in particular was seen as a coup. The way he and Pearson were revamping the squad in tandem was noted on more than one occasion. Now, in the space of two weeks the man has become the devil incarnate, the snake in the grass, the epitome of the Lansdown regime.

I think we are witnessing Social Media at its worst right here, I refuse to believe the bloke has changed and I for one will not be part of the "cancelling" of someone who has always done his best for this club. 

And I don't give a **** if people think that makes some sort of Lansdown Bot or whatever people think is going on here.

Great post. 

6 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

It's common knowledge. Your feigned ignorance fools no-one.

After losing the play-off final to Brighton 20 years ago, he went to the owner and grassed on Danny Wilson.

As a reward for being teacher's pet, he was given Wilson's job. He's continued to tell the owner what he wants to hear ever since, including that Pearson wasn't training the players properly and he wasn't fit for work. 

Tonight, Brighton are playing in Europe, beating Ajax in Amsterdam as we speak, while we prepare to play Queens Park Rangers for the millionth time.

You are defending 20 years of failure.

Do you feel prowed?

I genuinely don’t know this. Grassed on Wilson for what?

I assume you don’t mean losing the play offs as.. that was on the tele and the owner was probably watching. 

What had Wilson done to be grassed on? 

5 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Good article, and I wouldn’t expect anything less from Piercy. However, I find it hard - nigh on impossible - to believe a word Tinnion says in general, so I’m certainly in the camp of Pearson would have wanted a Scott replacement.

What it does do is crystallise expectation. They’re not spending money in January so Manning has to do better than Pearson with the squad Pearson had. If he doesn’t, as someone almost once says “It’ll be judged on Tinnion”

And if he does, ‘judged on Tinnion’ too? 

4 hours ago, transfer reader said:

I think there is a valid point about him leaving quickly though. 

Is it going to be harder in this summer for him to sell to others that he's building a long term project when players can see him leaving 1/3 of the way through a season?

I'm sure there's counter points like it being a divisional jump, and the way Benjamin Bloom said (probably paraphrased) it's about a 3 year jump from where he was to where he is now.

He’s likely disappointed himself that he didn’t get to see it through as it was looking very positive. 

But career chances don’t always come along when you want them, or indeed, twice. So sometimes you have to be selfish. Hardly a morality issue. But fully understand the frustration from Oxford fans (search ‘Alex Scott’ ‘Bournemouth’ on OTIB). 

24 minutes ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

We ALL support Manning, mate.

Why wouldn't we? We want to win on Saturday, and the game after that, and the one after that.

As for Tinnion, plenty of evidence he's a back stabber.

And - to be clear - no-one takes pleasure in saying that. It's just that all the available evidence points that way, massively.

Re support for Manning, I'd love that to be the case. Just not sure its 100% true going by the posts. Hopefully, he gets a good start so can diffuse the atmosphere a bit and move the club on. 

On Tinnion, if there is 'plenty of evidence' he is a back stabber - I haven't seen it and I think he deserves more respect. But we don't need to rehash arguments about Tinns that are well played out on other threads.

3 minutes ago, StefanDimz said:

Where's this claim comes from? Do you personally know something the rest of us don't? How do you know he'a a 'yes' man?

So many posts that feel like they are willing Manning to fail just so it confirms their blinkered, petty and snide views on Tinns. 
 

‘I’ll give Manning my support but he’s a yes man and a patsy and will do what Tinns says and Tinns will basically be manager and did you know Manning was sacked by MK Dons?? But he has my support and I’ll give him a fair go. But if he doesn’t get into the playoffs then he has to be sacked because that is exactly what Lansdown said word for word.  But he has my full support and I’m willing to give him a fair go. Until he inevitably fails.’

12 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

“Ultimately made the decision (to sack NP) because we think the squad is good enough”

We can split hairs about what exactly he means by “good enough” if you want but I assume finishing 12th doesn’t qualify as good enough in JL’s eyes and he means the POs.

Fair enough but, if that really is the quote everyone is using to back up the 'promoted or sacked' posts, then that is pretty tenuous.

30 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

Not promoted, to get into the Playoffs. It was during his club interview rather than the longer BBC one with Joe Sims.

“We all wanted Nigel to achieve our ambition to be promoted but, with our recent results, feel that now is the time to make a change to give the club the best possible chance of success.”

This quote?

6 minutes ago, luke_bristol said:

He said that’s the standard he expects from this squad, it was the basis for the decision to sack NP. He may find that comes back to haunt him, but let’s all hope it doesn’t and LM gets us up there.

He said the standard was that we have to get promoted? Genuine question.

I've now see it repeated so many times on the forum but I cannot find the quote. Just the ones I mention in my original post.

6 minutes ago, The Coach said:

So it’s possible we don’t have pay off 3 years if end of season we don’t get promoted?

Because that’s what our chairman has stated right?

I keep seeing this brought up but haven't seen the quote. I've seen a quote of 'challenging around playoffs' and 'outperforming our top 10 budget' and an ambition of promotion. But nowhere have I seen JL say 'we have to get promotion this season'. 

Where did our chairman say we have to get promotion this season?

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

When I met Rennie - which of course makes me biased - he talked about the improvements in fitness, the change they’d introduced, how the players bought into it, started to take ownership for monitoring themselves.  He talked about other managers noticing their fitness levels, Kompany being one.  We’ve heard from more than one manager this season about our relentless running this season.

And then you hear Jon Effing Lansdown coming out with words like “deconditioned”.

I can’t go into some of the things he talked about, as that would be wrong.  But based on that there is no reason for a slur / discredit of the way the players were kept fit.

I assume this is provable though, surely? A real simple stat like average distance run, while a bit crude, would show any big 'deconditioning' that occurred post-international break. Have something to hang the hat of this deconditioning concern on. 

From a pure football point of view, I'm really into the Manning appointment, if it happens. And, again from a football pov, I can see the argument for moving on from Nige - at minimum, there is a justification that exists. I've even appreciated the extra communication from leadership over last week that has been missing over last year.

The lack of gratitude and acknowledgement of what Nige did for club and for connection with fans is galling. But where I'm still really struggling is exactly on this 'deconditioning' gossip that they have tried to seed with side comments and leaks. It lacks class, is malicious and either requires an explicit explanation of why you believe that with some statistical evidencing to back it up, or, if it is just a belief, you bury it completely and don't sully professional reputations with hints and underhand comments. 

Because as a fan looking with own two eyes, regardless of what you think of the football over last few years, it seems tough to argue that this is not the hardest running team we've ever had. 

You don't get on with Nige. Understandable. You think we can do better than 31% win ratio, even with circumstances over last few years, OK. But show some effin class in parting ways. It is possible to be honest and dignified at the same time. 

58 minutes ago, Pezo said:

Fair enough. I'm looking for someone who knows how to get promoted out of this league, you sound like you are happy with someone who has a history of being competitive in league 1.

Everyone will be hit and miss, I agree, I would just prefer someone who has had a hit at the thing we are stating as a minimum requirement (getting promoted).

So not our stated goals then.

I get it. Understand the scepticism. 
 

Depends what you mean by ‘had a hit at the thing we are stating as a minimum requirement.’  I would say getting promoted from championship with parachute and without are very different achievements. And there aren’t that many managers who have got a non parachute team promoted in recent years. 
 

Last year, of the 3 managers that got promoted from championship - none of them had been promoted before. Two were with parachute teams. The one that wasn’t had a manager that had been very successful in lower leagues - and not even league one. 
 

In the five years before that, the only managers I can think of to have done same trick are Bielsa, Farke and Wilder. Only one of those has subsequently been appointed to a role to try and repeat the trick (Wilder to Boro) and it was a failure (although I would add I think he’s a very good manager). 

9 minutes ago, Pezo said:

Are they With the advantage of coming up with the side they built.

And for every example there is the equivalent Barnsley that had Lee Johnson.

What is the paradigm appointment time that doesn’t have the similar hit/miss rate you describe? Internal appointment? Foreign manager? Experienced hand? Someone that has won something? 

Every appointment type you can point to will have hits a misses. 

My argument is that just saying good league one managers is what good league one teams have is facile. 

28 minutes ago, Pezo said:

If we want to be good in league 1 we can hire good league 1 managers.

You know who had a good league one manager who had never managed in the Championship? Ipswich. 

2 hours ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

Lots of positive spin you can put on this appointment. 

But please don't use stats, he's been beating Accrington Stanley ffs. 

More feelings and hot takes; less facts and statistics. This is what OTIB needs. 
 

2 hours ago, Red white and red said:

You can’t argue that this appointment fits the yes man criteria

You really can argue that. This is a wild take. 

2 minutes ago, RollsRoyce said:

Hmmm but we have done this before, many times. It has always failed. They just fired all of the people who created the platform from Nige, so there is zero continuity. We have thrown the baby out with the bathwater. So if this smacks of having a clear plan, well great, it is the first time in 25 years the Lansdowns have had that, because all I have ever seen is a flip-flop from one plan to another, and a complete ignorance as to why any of those plans have never worked. The reason for that is it would require some extreme self-analysis, and that would highlight where the issues are at Bristol Cty. That you now have Jl and Tinnion inventing the latest strategy, tells me everything. Until we get rid of JL, all of his cronies, and create a world-class recruitment team, Bristol City is going nowhere fast. 

Manning could well be, after numerous attempts, the one that finally breaks the Lansdown duck of unproven managers having success, but there is a big difference to being an up-and-coming manager dropping into Brentford, Brighton or even Luton (latest obsession) and BCFC. It is the lack of understanding as to why that is the case that will hinder Manning. It is only when BCFC have had stronger character managers have the club has been able to create some success or stability. This is because they can resist the Lansdown-led nepotism and cronyism structure more. 

But as we have a a squad that is capable of promotion according to BT and JL, then Manning should be an odds-on success with better training, fitness and coaching. Good luck to him, and he will only get support from the fans. No one wants the club to fail. 

The players are the continuity. I don't think the kind of continuity in lead coaching teams is part of any established recipe for success at other clubs. Its normal to get rid of the roles they have in any coaching set up change. 

Say it is a success (you're setting a high bar for measuring that, but let's see) will you be holding hands up and saying right call (handled badly)? Agree that everyone will get behind team now, but also feel like there are lots on this forum ready to hit Itoldyouso as soon as possible so I'm interested whether there might be a bit of credit given if this does work out. 

Agree on the flip flopping and shifting plan. But that is exactly why I am slightly encouraged by this. As it does feel like following through on a clear plan. Think we all agree the Nige departure was abysmally handled and the messaging has been a bit floundering. And the lack of thanks given to him lack class and is a misstep. But, looking forward, this is first appointment in a while where they have set out with an idea of what they want and stuck to that and the external messaging matches the appointment. 

Again, whether it works out, let's see. We all hope so - and wouldn't it be nice to see some attractive football at the Gate. Been a while.

14 minutes ago, Tafkarmlf said:

Well bully for you

It's not the teams it's the method and results

He's improved all of them 

Yeah, exactly. Everyone needs to start somewhere, right. What is the correct career path for a coach of Bristol City? Just someone on the Championship roundabout? A foreign manager with experience of lower leagues abroad? Someone already inside Bristol City coaching set up getting promoted? Or one of the most promising managers at the top of the league below?

Whatever people think about the appointment, this smacks of having a clear plan which has been a persistent critique of the leadership over the last week and bit. It's consistent with what they said they were looking for. 

Easy to mock appointing a lower league manager (if it happens) but I actually do think this is an exciting appointment very different from some of the appointments used as a reference point by some commenters. Think this isn't a case of 'they don't know what they're doing' but suggests they know exactly what they're doing. Whether that clear plan proves correct, let's see. 

Hopefully everyone gets on board, because the strong platform Nige leaves behind will mean nothing if fans don't get behind appointment from beginning. I'm optimistic if this happens.

9 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Or until his remit was expanded beyond his capabilities. 

Let’s see on that. 

18 minutes ago, Shauntaylor85 said:

Yep. Well said, Tinnion is the one I’ve got my eye on. Failed at this club once, lucky to have a second chance. 

Do you not think he’s done really well with that second chance, at least up until last few weeks? 

58 minutes ago, mason said:

and? ex players who played for us in the past like hundreds of others, do you also want sags to go up because they have ex players of ours ? they like managers are just passing through, they worked for this our club once.

Because if they go down, so do the sell on values of Scott and (it’s looking more of a possibility now) Semenyo. 

You want Scott to get sold for more than he cost Bournemouth, they need to be in the PL. 

So, even if you aren’t bothered about the success of our homegrown players (I am), self interest says we want Bournemouth to smash it. 

1 hour ago, Taunton_BCFC said:

Stepping stone to the premier league?

I think the point is his top flight, possible European football job that he is currently being very successful at is a much better stepping stone to the Premier League (if that is what he wanted) than weirdly moving to Bristol City. 

1 hour ago, petehinton said:

“We’re not going to line someone up whilst someone’s still in charge, we have morals”

Ah so that’s why SO’D was near enough given the job at half time of McInnes’ last game then

Meh -bit damned if you do, damned if you don't on this.

My memory of the Derek McInnes sacking was SL really fronting up in a way that would have been welcome here. (Both results and football were terrible and the player culture out of control at that point so maybe it was a lot more straightforward to be upfront.)

15 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don’t have any criticism of Joe Sims performance in this interview. It was always going to be relatively soft but he did at least try to ask relevant questions - perhaps just didn’t follow up on the answers as much as a more hard-nosed journalist would. But that’s not what Joe is so I wouldn’t have expected any more. I thought he did a decent job. 
 

As for Jon. There’s one point I’ve not seen mentioned on the thread yet but which sent my alarms bells ringing. 
He was quite clear on a couple of occasions that he “didn’t want to talk about the football side of things because he’s not the expert and there are far better qualified people to talk about that”. 
And yet, on a couple of occasions he was more than willing to say “we haven’t given the players the best platform for their fitness” and “we’ve almost been de-conditioning them”. 
 

So he can’t comment on the football but he’ll happily give an expert opinion on the fitness of the players. 
Again, if you are the widely respected and highly professional Dave Rennie you must be astounded by this! 
 

My other observation - he pretty much confirmed what many posters here have always denied with regard to the recruitment team. 
He clearly says that the manager doesn’t get to come in and say “I want this player”. He can say “I want this position with these qualities” and then the recruitment team will find players that fit that profile and present them to the manager for consideration. 
As I’ve always said - whoever the manager is doesn’t necessarily get their choice of players. They get a shortlist of players from the analysts. 

Edit - whilst typing this I note others have indeed brought up Jon’s medical and performance expertise 

On the recruitment point, is that a bad thing? (Asking genuinely). My understanding was for a while now, the club have been open that recruitment isn't a single person decision but that no one will be brought in without the manager's sign off. At the very least, there must be occasions when Nige led the recruitment process, or Matty James and Andy King are very coincidental choices by the recruitment team. You will know much more than me on this. 

On the physio point - completely agree. Hinting around this thing about conditioning and training is absolutely unacceptable and if there is an issue it needs to be explicitly addressed as a major reason for the changes or completely buried. These hints and passing comments are the worst of both worlds.