the1stknowle

8 minutes ago, Maltshoveller said:

Brennan was the best imo

Barnard for me. Scott a very close second. Then Brennan. But all great to watch.

On 03/05/2023 at 18:16, Leveller said:

This. They haven’t tried to buy a glamour club, they’ve revived a good traditional club in a rather depressed city, and revitalised the whole area in the process. I accept it’s hard on Notts County etc, but frankly every league has richer and poorer clubs, which is something that will never change.

I think it’s a positive story all round.

Yeah, I cannot get the negativity. It’s something different and nothing fundamentally wrong with what they are doing. They seem to be doing things right, programme is watchable and they have centred the fans. 
 

What will be interesting is when it starts going wrong. Because football fans turn on every owner eventually. Because football fans are the worst. When results aren’t flying it will start. And the entire brand (and associated sponsorship and player attraction) is now built on this wholesome goodwill. So if that is diminished, it’s a trickier proposition for them. 
 

Same sort of issues with what happens when people stop watching the show. Do the owners keep on? If not, how do they exit? Obviously becomes commercially less appealing once they are gone or once they aren’t on tv. 
 

Which is all to say it’s not like they’ve discovered some cheat code that is ruining football. It’s just a slightly different version of the (comparatively) rich owner story that you see in every league every season. 

6 hours ago, Percy Pig said:

He'll 100% get a prem move! 

Let’s see. He’s leaving because he wants to play. What prem league team is he playing regularly in? Anyway, bit off topic. 

David Ornstein reporting today that Charlie Patino wants to leave Arsenal on perm.

Assume he won’t get a premier league move. And not many other champ clubs will have money this summer (assuming we sell AS). That is an Alex Scott replacement I’d like to see here. 
 

15 hours ago, Dredd said:

Absolutely this. He's had a lot of attention in the last few weeks. Winning YPOTY, named in TOTY, named in the list of top young players around Europe, been linked with Brighton and Liverpool, all this has naturally had people discussing him over social media, in the print media, on the radio, and on top of that the club make it Alex Scott day and hand out posters around the ground. It's a LOT for a young kid to handle so I'm willing to cut him a bit of slack for today. If that is the last we see of him at the Gate then he will have wanted to sign off on better terms but at least the fans showed their appreciation and support at the end regardless of the last 90 mins

Yeah, exactly. One slightly off performance, if it happened to be his last, who cares. That doesn't define his time here in any way. He's a kid and he's been amazing to watch and hopefully everyone is excited to see what he goes on to next - even the 'why are we talking about ex-players on the forum?' crew. 

FWIW, if Brighton are in for him (who knows if true) then I think better to sell him there than anywhere else given how they are doing with player sales. He'd look great in that team, and if you could take 25m to Liverpool or 22m to Brighton, each with a 25% sell on (fantasy figures, I appreciate) then, purely from a financial point of view for City, Brighton every day. With the model they use, they have put themselves in such a strong position to attract young talent. 

(Compare and contrast Tottenham where the chairman refuses to sell a player that has given them everything for nearly a decade even though the money is good, the player is getting on, and they have a 'gentlemen's agreement' to let him go at a certain price.)

Anyway, all to say, pleasure watching him but if we get massive money then it is a real chance for us to push on, as well as for Alex. So all in all, think it's time to say goodbye and fingers crossed he gets the right move. Because if it all works out, he is going to be some player. 

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

there is list of refs waiting to join the pro ref ranks.

Does this not go against your entire point about potential refs leaving the game? I thought the whole point is that the pipeline is poor because its so hard to be a ref. 

I agree that referees are not turning in poor performances for just one team. That is the point. It is consistently bad. Where there are lots of random, non-conspiratorial mistakes, some teams out of 24 will be on the end of the most, and some teams out of 24 will be on the end of the least. Those on the end of the most would reasonably be more likely to complain. Lets hope those managers unlucky enough to be on the end of the most do it in a measured, non-aggressive, way, a la Nige. 

I dont think we disagree as much as you seem keen to. The managers that abuse refs are tools. The players that go out of their way to con refs - like our own Joe Low on weekend - are also part of problem. 

But you have to be able to call out bad mistakes and bad management by those responsible for the people making those mistakes. Will leave it there. 

18 hours ago, Cowshed said:

You have used mass and a lot, then objectively bad, Being objective how are you measuring this? A mass of bad decisions cannot attach themselves to just one club over differing data. One measurement, or two yes as outliers, but all the games decisions versus a league? No. There there has to be explanation. Rank bad luck wont be it .. Leaving? Conspiracy, their all out to get BCFC? No again.  

I used 'mass' once in my original point. Hardly 'a lot'. But not really the point.

Look, if you are saying that the only explanation for any more than two 'outliers' (I think you are using the term incorrectly in this sentence btw) is, by implication, a 'conspiracy', and therefore, even though I have never used the word, I must have meant that, then we can leave the conversation there. It's a point that is tough to respond to when I fully agree that there is no conspiracy, just poor standards in refereeing. To make that point doesn't have to be abuse. It doesn't have to be personal. It doesn't even have to be a failing of the individual referee. In fact, if it is multiple referees turning in bad performances, then it is a systemic failure, not a personal one. That won't be fixed by ignoring it and shielding bad decisions from legitimate criticism, any more than it will be fixed by abusing individual referees. 

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

Abuse is bad effect. The bad effect at the games zenith's permeates through football's pyramid.

Mr Pearson legitimate criticisms are opinions. PMGOL ref efficiency favourably with any league in Europe. Ref efficiency is scrutinised and fed back to IFAB, who on occasions will direct FA's etc to intervene in how rules are applied consistently.

Mr Pearson threw in the good old don't know football. Refs cannot progress up the ladder without knowing football. Managers and coaches frequently don't know the rules, and frequently don't know reffing. The consistency argument is used again and again, and by Nigel Pearson. Mr Pearson would loathe refs being consistent over a game that is not. Each scenario is not the same. Game temperature requires differing intervention, and at times differing sanction, the last ten minutes of a game will not be the same as the first,  player behaviour and that match temperature ebbs and flows. 

Masses of decisions .. There is no conspiracy. 

Conspiracy is your word. You can have a mass of decisions go against you without a conspiracy. 
 

in fact, because it’s NOT a conspiracy is the point. It’s a lot of objectively bad decisions that warrant genuine criticism. It’s a separate issue from the abuse of refs driving them from the game. 

53 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Mr Pearson has his perception. You like a stat, how would you measure turmoil? How would you measure the whole thing needs a shake up? What is the it Mr Pearson refers to?

He is criticising refs as irritating, inconsistent, not good enough. All of them? 

Nigel Pearson is sick to the back teeth ... Refs are sick to the back teeth in this Country of the treatment they are receiving. The game is losing by wide margins more refs than it is recruiting. Refs are being attacked, verbally abused consistently across the Country and there is a connection between the disrespect refs receive at the top of the game and the real evidence based turmoil at its grass roots. A grass roots that feeds refs up the pyramid. 

So, no he is not spot on. Mr Pearson may want to think about his words and their consequences. Refs are human, they deserve respect, when you deligitimise and dehumanise refs its become easier to abuse them, including the child refs who are also on the receiving end of abuse .. Mr Pearson is part of that. 

Where is the abuse? I agree with your general point - and think it applies to some managers, like Warnock (who loads of people on here seem to think is good for the game but I think is pernicious precisely because of the way he treats referees).

But that is different from a very legitimate criticism of the mass of decisions that have gone against us over last few years and the shambolic admin process Nige describes in the article. 

Having elite referees mic'd and with a gopro is a good solution to try to change culture of abuse. Players and many managers would not look good with current behaviour.  Nige is not one of those. If anything, considering some of the penalty decisions, he's been pretty sanguine towards refs.

Wilson at Coventry is interesting choice. Didn't realise he would be quite so highly thought of. Guess there haven't been too many outstanding keepers in league this season. 

Other than that, agree Benson over Tella from what I've seen. And not sure about centre back choices. 

I know he's injured and out for a while but Cooper is surely the pick of the lower league keepers if that is the direction we are going. The other one I've seen a few times that looks to have very high ceiling is Toby Savin (nominative determinism). But Im not sure he's even getting into Accrington team at minute so maybe he hasn't kicked on from a few years ago. 

I like the Rushworth shout too but don't think it's too crazy to think he might get a go at Brighton next year. 

2 hours ago, Lorenzos Only Goal said:

I remember his bizarre abdominal injury.

Christmas party, right?

17 minutes ago, ralphindevon said:

Yeah and I really wish Antoine well, hope he scores loads and gets an even better move.

I just can’t enjoy seeing Bournemouth up there, call it jealousy or just not liking clubs that cheat but it doesn’t feel right them going up and down getting parachute payments.

Well let’s hope you have to put up with it for one more season as it’s probably worth a few million quid to us if they stay up this year. 

6 minutes ago, WessexPest said:

If these allegations have merit, then this is by orders of magnitude way worse than what Swindon did - and they were demoted two divisions (albeit reduced to one on appeal).

I s’pose though the logic was their dodgy dealings helped them climb the league ladder as they went from Div Four to One (or would’ve) in something like five years.

I don't think its even in question - at least it shouldn't be - that if these charges are stood up then, in among fines and bans and title strippings, there will be at least one relegation, possibly more. 

Odds on Haaland being first person ever to score 100 goals in a League Two season?

24 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

The EPL won't have the balls to do it. Real Madrid and Barca are a phone call away from a Super League but KNOW they need English clubs in there to make it work. If one was handed to them on a silver platter away we go....................... 

Not sure about this take. I think more likely, if Man City did that, they would take zero proper fans with them and there would be yet another Manchester phoenix club.

The super league needs English clubs because they bring English fans and the people that came up with the idea seem to have absolutely no understanding of what English fans want and the centrality of the pyramid. If it were as simple as you make out, BT Sport would be some money making machine the second they got the UCL rights. Not exactly worked out like that. 

3 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

See below - it may not be appealable to CAS .

They have an in-house team of about 8 lawyers anyway. Plus they will no doubt hire the same barristers and Freshfields who helped them last time. However, the PL obviously have a little bit of cash to send the lawyers' way as well.

First appeal would be to an "Appeal Board". Rule W.79 says that "Subject to the provisions of Section X of these Rules (Arbitration), the decision of an Appeal Board shall be final.". I've not got time to dig through Section X and through the Arbitration Act 1996 to which it refers, but a skim read shows that they are trying pretty hard to make sure decisions are final and a re not appealable to CAS.

Good lawyers can go a long way - but there is only so much you can do in face of a mountain of evidence. And, as someone said, the Premier League are not without financial resources themselves.

From that charge list, Man City are in very serious trouble. Also appears they might have lied in their representations to CAS that enabled them to escape the most serious punishments in the previous UEFA case. 

Don't think we should write Andi off just yet. He's a class act upfront for Championship level.

Have thought for ages though that we are a better team when we play three actual midfielders in midfield rather than squeeze him in there. We seem to control game much better as a result.

But can still see him doing a great job in any of those top three positions in the current 4-3-3. And he will score and make goals. We are lucky to have him as an option.

11 minutes ago, mozo said:

Massengo is 21 years old. He has a whole career ahead of him.

And when he is good (admittedly not often enough) he is very, very good.

41 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

Closer to the £10k I would think, I heard from someone who knows someone that Max is on that plus a £1k clean sheet bonus

So, once all bonuses have been added, Max is on 10k a week then. 

26 minutes ago, Taz said:

These "links" with Palace, if genuine, would probably be the best move for him to be fair. They play decent football, a system/players that would probably suit his style of play, and you would think are probably less likely to be drawn into a relegation fight. Looking ahead, they also generally buy whilst the players are on the up, and then sell for a bigger price a few years down the line - better for us.

He's going to be gone within the next 18 months or so, the question is when. If we do sell this window, I think that with the current regime they will be making things clear that any deal needs to be done by a certain date, otherwise he's going nowhere until the summer at least. Also think (hope) that a replacement is in the pipelines ready to go, should any deal happen. That's not to say that someone else could come in in the meantime and take said player away from us though....

So if we go on the "stories" being true, we have Burnley, Bournemouth, Palace and Southampton all watching and showing an interest. I think if he's still here on Saturday, what he does when he leaves the pitch will give us a clearer indication of what he is planning on doing for the rest of the season.

Probably best move for us too in terms of maxing out his future value for a sell on. 

If they can get to a reasonable upfront fee then this is probably best possible move for all concerned. His career could go either way but he’s definitely got a chance.

If he goes for mid teens plus sell on, great business and fingers crossed he does well - for him and us. 

6 hours ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Looks like a few taking some pleasure in a young man’s current misfortune/downward spiral (probably the wrong words!). 
 

As @Numero Unostates, let’s hope he gets back to enjoying his football and a settled period for him. 

100% this

A really good mate of my Dad's. When my Dad died during the pandemic, Stoney came to the funeral, even though the restrictions meant he couldn't get in. So he just came along to stand outside and pay his respects. A really good guy and, like everyone has said, funny as. RIP

16 minutes ago, Super said:

Not too bothered tbh. Not championship standard imo.

Well, we won't know that until he has a real run of games as a fixture in a side and can get the experience. Given his rate of improvement over last few years, you'd think a 40-game season could see him really develop. So from that point of view, this is the right move at this point in his career. Don't think it has to mean a permanent move to a lower level.

Good luck to him. 

2 hours ago, TammyAB said:

My prediction of the team in Nige’s head at the mo:

Bentley; Kalas, Klose, Naismith; Wilson, Scott, Williams, Dasilva; Weimann; Martin, Semenyo (3-4-1-2).

Surely Atkinson was our best player in last part of season just gone. 

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Interesting that this decent run has coincided with the Cundy/Klose/Atkinson formation at the back.  We now have some consistency, height and mobility at the back, and no more of Kalas’s ridiculous long throws.

I don’t think I’ll ever understand this season, as long as I live.  That we’ve accumulated more points than last season seems patently absurd, and that confusion seems to be reflected in the attitude of the fans to Pearson.  No surprise at all to me that opinions about Pearson have varied dramatically, and no call for anyone to have a go at people with different opinions to their own.  If we have genuinely turned a corner then fair play, let’s hope that next season will show further improvement.  

And we’ve lost an insane amount of points very late in games.  Even with half of those, season would be looking half decent. Despite some dire performances. Agree very odd season but definite progress.