the1stknowle

51 minutes ago, The Gambler said:

Key change in the game was Paqueta going off injured. Had he stayed fit I think we would have been well beaten. He is their best player and way above anything you will see in the championship. 
 

Once he went off we established a foothold in the game and 2nd half we were excellent. 

Agree. He was brilliant for three minutes.

Also didn’t realise how good Bowen is. 
 

it’s a really good wham team and we we matched them for all but first five minutes (when pacqueta was on pitch). Coufal basically plays as a right forward but thought Pring and Dickie did really well against him and Bowen. 
 

51 minutes ago, Swede said:

First half I thought it was a tale of the two No.20's, one, who's honed his skills and one who is hasn't.The couple of injuries they had early on certainly disrupted their game. I thought second half we upped our momentum and drove on and took the game to them and thoroughly deserved the draw if not more.

Job Williams was my of the match.

 

Pring and Dickie for me. And O’Leary obviously. But williams very good.

3 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

Jesus. Is he a 50 something bloke or a 13 year old child?

The epitaph for the whole of OTIB. 

24 minutes ago, spudski said:

It's not...I've explained in this thread the reason why. 

People will find anything to use when the going is bad. 

It's been picked up on. 

Personally I don't like it...but I can live with it. Just means I won't listen to his interviews so much. 

I'll think of this thread if he ever goes on a losing streak. 

It’s all ridiculously childish. 

19 hours ago, spudski said:

I know...I've read the coaching manuals.

However...if you asked the average fan on the street what ' behaviors' meant in coaching terms, they'd put it under the same umbrella that includes a player's attitude. 

It's not a term that's used in everyday language. 

I've mentioned it before...it's fine when you're winning, but it will be another stick to beat him with when not doing well. 

As LJ and Ashton found out. 

Seems like a bit of a stick to beat him with even when winning. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Fair response too mate.

As you’ll know from my posts, I was happy on the football size, don’t hold any Tinnion baggage (I was a part time fan in those days), so from Tech Director down I’m fine.  I form my own views, like I did with LJ, where again I wasn’t skewed by his playing days.

My big unknown is how the void of Nige’s “football” experience and Gould’s CEO skills are filled in the strategising of driving the club towards the PL.

yeah, saying “no-one” said it was bad is wrong, I try to ignore the really extreme views on either side, and scroll on by.  Those tend not to want to discuss, they don’t tend to even accept there is an alternative view.  I might nibble from time to time though!

We aren’t a basket case at all, we have an owner that pays the bills.  But I don’t think he should’ve racked up the bills he has, is where my huge frustration comes from.

Yeah all very fair. I don’t want to pretend I don’t have concerns or everything is rosey. And even if it all goes incredibly and we win the playoffs, I will still have problems with some of the comms around axing Nige and that whole briefing around the medical issues with the players. That was grim stuff. 

But I’ve also slowly come round to sacking Nige not being the worst footballing decision in world if they had a plan. And it seems they had a plan. I

Ive always felt on the question of this thread that Steve Lansdown gets less credit than he’s due for the good stuff and way too much vitriol for the stuff that hasn’t worked. 
 

And I’ve really taken against the assumption that sacking Nige and brining in Manning already belongs in the catalogue of bad Lansdown decisions just because a lot of people didn’t like it. (Def not saying you’ve ever said that on here btw). 

7 hours ago, Davefevs said:

And that terrific position is mainly down to the work Nige and Richard undertook.  What many are suggesting is that the new structure lacks the expertise it had, are worried as a result and didn’t like the way they dealt with moving to this structure.

Good post. All entirely reasonable. I guess my point is, if this works (and, early days but pretty good start) then are those suggesting, as you put it, the new structure lacks sufficient expertise wrong? Obviously no one ever wants to eat humble pie but a lot of the catastrophising that goes on on here is premised on the Pearson sacking and LM appointment being the straw that broke camels back of bad decisions. So, if it turns out that was an inspired decision, then that really makes a lot of these arguments on this thread pretty weak. 
 

And one thing in your post i do disagree with - that no one is saying things are that bad. I agree that is the case with City fans in real world. It’s not what I take from loads of the comments on OTIB that seem to think we are a basket case club and Lansdowns need to sell up and get out , Tins out of depth etc. There are clearly people on here - lots - that think things really are that bad. 

Does this whole chat assume they got the decision that basically started this chat wrong - the appointment of Liam Manning?

If that turns out to an inspired choice from a football point of view, does that change this thread? Because, seems to me, if that goes well then it is a ruthless (ie not cosy jobs for the boys, lacking ambition etc) decision made in consultation with a football person (Tins) which seems to be what a lot of people on this thread want from the Lansdowns. 
 

For my part, I just don’t see that things are as bad as people make out regularly on here. SL shouldn’t have given the club to a son that had not earned that job. And, to the same point, I get peoples issues with the ‘it’s my club’ line. But the infrastructure, the Academy are obviously miles better than when he took over and the club has consistently excellent attendances. We are definitely better set up for success. So struggle to quite see reasons for vitriol. We are in a pretty good place. 
 

31 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Steve said we were building a nest egg so we can compete in the future. He didn't say how big the nest egg needs to be or when the future where we can compete will arrive though.

It's apparent also that he wants to reduce the amount he puts into the club each year. Which he is entitled to do of course.

So for prudent reasons to run an ultimately self-sustaining business?

1 hour ago, Merrick's Marvels said:

To what end?

Would be my question.

To help Bournemouth succeed? (Other tinpot over achieving clubs are available).

To keep the wage bill down because the owner's lost interest?

Because the last time I looked, no-one ever got promoted from the brutal Championship with a team full of kids. So it's to flog them and build that "nest egg" isn't it?

"Never get too attached to players" - Steve Lansdown, quote unquote.

So long as that's clear.

So your question right back to you then. If it’s to build this ‘nest egg’ - to what end? Just self enrichment? Surely even Lansdown’s biggest critique would struggle to say the investment in City is about making out like a bandit. 

41 minutes ago, phantom said:

They haven't improved

Oh. Ok then.

5 minutes ago, phantom said:

How have comms from JL improved exactly? 

Yep.

Number of interviews/fan Q&A sessions in 12 months pre Nige's sacking vs number in the 2 months since???

On 21/12/2023 at 16:33, Galley is our king said:

As above, said a few very noncommittal words and then went into a Q and A.

The Hen and chicken it was not!

First question about the accounts and when would they be published?

Answer.... they are being bought into line and published with the other members of the group, no idea when that would be.

Second question. Could you please explain why Phil Alexander left the football club? 

Answer..... We felt things weren't going as well as we expected, nothing particular and Brian Tinnion was growing into the role.

Third question. Do you feel that you should listen to the opinions of experienced supporters when making big decisions like changing managers? (Some clapping).

Answer.... we can't consult on everything but everything we do is in the best interests of the club.

Forth question. Now Liam Manning is here, what do you consider to be a successful season?

Answer.... well there are an awful lot of points still to play for so we are looking for progression.

When pressed he said TOP 10!!!!!

Fifth question. Do you understand the disappointment that the fan base currently feel about the current board of directors.

Answer.... well you can't please everyone and I'd like to think many do support us.

There were other important questions about lighting in the stadium during evening games, music too loud and giving the opposition an advantage by then having the Atyeo stand. Sorry if I missed any others, please add!!!

Don't think he enjoyed this at all so it was ended although there were others wanting to ask further questions.

My second question would have been.... If you consider 10th to be a successful season why did you sack a manager when we were eleventh?

Worked well as everyone was too old to work for Bristol Sport.......

I don’t think Jon has been a good chairman up until this point and one of my main complaints, other than how he got the job, is the abysmal lack of communication over last few years. 
 

But like what he says or not, you can’t deny that he is finally making an effort to communicate with the fans more regularly. Vital, especially when we don’t have a CEO who can do that club-level communication. 
 

Appreciate it is not a popular opinion, but I’m encouraged by the recent efforts. Far from perfect. Far from not awkward. But he’s at least putting himself out there more which is a major change. 

7 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Personally I don't disagree that a change in tactics/strategy will require time. But I would question the timing.

I think a better analogy in what is - after all - an entertainment business - is selling tickets to a show and midway through the performance letting half the cast leave and replacing them with a bunch who don't know their lines....

...all the while saying 'bear with us, don't know what you're moaning about, it'll obviously take them time'. Anyone in the audience would rightly think 'are they in their right minds?' 

Maybe, but I think your analogy is wrong anyway as it assumes the actors are doing the same thing, just worse. What Im saying is half way through a show is obviously never the ideal time to start a new show and that could be a bit jarring for the audience. But maybe the new show, once all the actors get into character, will be a lot better. Thing is, we will never know how good the play gets if everyone starts screaming at the actors or walks out before they have had a chance to get to the good bits.

And, anyway, tortured analogy aside, we all know football supporting isn't solely about the entertainment (see Nigel Pearson reign) or even the results (see Nigel Pearson reign). What makes it enjoyable is a lot more complicated than that (see Nigel Pearson reign). 

I'll leave it there as literally no one on either side of discussion here is likely to change mind. 

1 minute ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Once again, we are not a charity. 

3 defeats, 2 draws and 1 win is bad. 

If Man Utd sacked ETH today and told the new boss the expectation is top 4, theyd be pretty annoyed with that sort of record after 6 games. 

None of my points rely on the idea that we are a charity. Quite the opposite. 

And re ManU, maybe. But if they then finished in the top 4, they wouldn't be annoyed and what happened in the first 6 games would be irrelevant. 

It's just circles so no point going round rehashing same points. More people on here seem to agree with you than me and all equally entitled to opinion. I just think not only is it too early to judge, but the ill will towards Manning (which is there no matter what people claim) will only make things more challenging. Also, I'm amazed that others aren't seeing some positive changes in what we are doing on pitch. I think results will follow. But who knows - Im willing to see. Appreciate you have already seen enough. 

12 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Fair enough if that's how you see it. And maybe I'd see it that way if he was appointed at the start of the season. 

But I certainly felt as if top 10 was achievable this season and maybe even the play offs with a fair wind. 

As I've said plenty of times. BCFC is not a charity. We are not here to provide work experience for inexperienced managers. 

I have absolutely no doubt that other managers could have come in and done better over those 6 games especially as at least 3 of those games were very winnable games. 

He accepted a job mid season at a club that has expectations of challenging. 

We've dropped 13 points in those SIX games because of the boring dull football. I don't subscribe to the give him time narrative when he was brought in to instantly improve results. 

'instantly improve results' is your narrative. If you take the chairman's explanation at face value, Manning was brought in because we wanted a new shiny way of playing football that was more likely to get us into the premier league. Fine. Agree with that or not, you have to accept that that will take a bit of time. Fans might want to hold the chairman to this 'guaranteed play off' nonsense but it would be nice if they let Manning get on with job with a bit of courtesy benefit of doubt. If not, we risk a self-fulfilling prophecy (which I suspect is, regardless of what people say, subconsciously sort of what a lot of people want. People instinctively like to be right even when they say 'I'd love to be proved wrong').

But even if top 6 was what Manning agreed and believes is achievable this season, its unrealistic to expect him to come in, change NOTHING and, to quote you 'instantly improve results'. To do that, something has to change and that is where he has to be allowed a bit of time.

What you're doing, I feel, is the equivalent of your neighbour telling you he wants a better house that will sell for more money. He starts painting, slaps on the undercoat, knocks down the back wall to start an extension. And you walk past three weeks later and shout 'mate, that looks shite. There's a massive hole in your house and its all different colours. I thought you wanted to make it better?' 

14 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

And after 10 games you'll be saying it's only been 10 games, same after 20,30,40 etc. 

Under Nige we saw progression. That gave people a bit of patience. 

Unfortunately for Manning he accepted a job that has high expectations. He's come in and changed our style and the majority are falling asleep watching it. 

Yes to after 10 games. That is too soon.

After 20 I think we should be seeing signs of progress. 

And after 30, 40 - you're just making straw man arguments there. That would be two transfer windows and most of a season so of course that becomes a reasonable time to judge 'progress'. Just because I'm saying it's too soon to judge, that doesn't mean 'he can never be judged'. Come on. 

4 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Ever since it has been boring shite dull football

'Ever since'... It's been SIX games. 

And, I can see you are a hardcore Nige ride or die but.. its not like 'boring shite dull football' was a totally foreign concept under his time here, or indeed the season so far.

5 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Want us to progress beyond where we was, as that was why we made the change  

Fine. But over what period of time? Just instantaneously - from his first game in charge, Bristol City can never drop below 15th under LM or he is an instant failure? Or if in 10 games time we are higher than 15th, that is progress and you'll pop a humble pie in the oven?

I see so many posts on here currently saying 'no one is having a pop at Manning..' whilst having a very obvious pop at Manning in the very same post. Would be better if people were honest that that is exactly what they are doing.  

46 minutes ago, Northern Red said:

Whereas Pearson was almost certainly getting as much out of this squad as anyone was going to,

Again. I'm a Nige fan. But I do not see how you can make that statement with such authority. 

52 minutes ago, Harry said:

I’m rather encouraged by what I’ve seen so far with Manning. I know many won’t agree but that’s how I feel. 
 

I am keen to separate the performances under Manning from the ridiculous decisions and comments from Jon, Brian & Gavin. 
 

The reasons for sacking Pearson were, as we all know, spurious. 
Their comments about top 6, top end, best squad etc etc were again, spurious. 
 

I’ve said clearly on threads at that time that I will very much be judging the hierarchy on those comments and expectations. 
 

However, I am not judging Manning on those same comments and expectations. I will judge Manning on what I see on the field. 
 

In my opinion, the squad which Pearson had was a squad which I thought would be about 10th-15th, and would be one where we’d see less of the ball and be rather stodgy. A counterattack team which might get a few results against the grain but generally have less of the play but get enough results for mid table. 
I wasn’t expecting any more than that. 
 

With Manning, my expectations aren’t changing. I still think this is a mid table squad. 
However, I am really encouraged (and frankly amazed) that he’s got this team playing dominant possession football and having twice as many chances as the opposition. 
I actually really like how we’ve played so far. Yes, the results haven’t been there but I’ve enjoyed seeing a City team having 60%+ possession, looking like the better football team, being creative up front and making plenty of decent chances. I also liked today the battling qualities we showed - the 2nd half conditions were horrendous and we had to scrap for loose balls and aerials and we won more than our fair share - for once it seemed like the 2nd balls and ricochets mostly went our way, when can we ever say that as a City fan! Thats not luck. Its effort. 
 

Yes, we could easily have won today. We could easily have won v Norwich. We could have got a point at Southampton. We didn’t. And that will rightly be questioned, but the performances, for me, have been encouraging. 
 

Whatever Lansdown and Tinnion said, I will judge them at the end of the season. Failure is on their heads. 
For Manning, I’m positively encouraged by how he’s managing to get this team playing - I like what I’ve seen so far. I don’t think we’re too far off. Most of the goals against haven’t been anything to do with system, shape, management etc they’ve mostly been basic individual errors. 
Yes, those things will happen (they happened under Nige too). But overall I’m actually quite happy so far. 

Amen. Some sense. Completely agree - it's still very new but I just think those refusing to see any positives in what we are doing on the pitch currently are being wilfully blind. We were a work in progress when he took over. And we remain a work in progress. But progress there clearly has been. 

2 hours ago, Gert Mare said:

He installed a culture of competing in games and understood the limitations of the players that he had at his disposal. 

He made us difficult to break down. 

Again, not denying any of those things (except the difficult to break down point which is maybe a reach although the start of this season we seemed a lot less fragile). But the initial post was very specifically talking about a culture of winning. And, as much as I liked Nige, didn't want him gone, and appreciate this is exactly what he was working towards, there is just no sensible way to argue that he had already instilled a 'culture of winning' when, under him, our win percentage was very noticeably below the win percentages of his three immediate predecessors in the decade since 2013. 

2 hours ago, spudski said:

...' It's a mindset and Culture that needs to be changed'...regarding winning. 

WTF...seriously? 

So Nige hadn't installed that? **** off.

I know lots of people like his talk...but I'm find him just waffling coaching spiel when asked questions. 

Doesn't take time to think of answers...it's all embedded. 

Over time he's gonna come out worse than LJ for it imo. 

I don't mind his football...but he's already grating on me in interviews. 

 

Sorry. I’m a Nige fan. But the idea he installed a culture of winning is demonstrably not true. Culture of hard work. Culture of togetherness. Culture of good people. 100%. But we only won less than one out of every three games when Nige was manager. 

24 minutes ago, red panda said:

Not sure what you want him to say, thought he was quite sensible

I would have liked him to admit, ‘under Nige, we would have won that 4-0.’ Then we could have all gone home happy. 

14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wouldn't that be something. Man City down to the National League or National League North even!

Get Paul Dickov back